I have to say, Olympia Snowe is a Republican with really good ideas.

[logical4u]

and I have always liked the fact that Maine has produced some of the nation's best moderate republican senators.... from Maggie Smith and Bill Cohen to Oly Snowe and Susan Collins.... we like 'em smart up here in Maine, and we like 'em not so partisan that they get to loving their party more than they do their country.

How does bankrupting the nation equate with "loving" their country?

 

[The Rabbi]

Private insurers will not be able to "control costs" any more than they can now.

Sure they will, by refusing to pay for bullshit treatments, like VIAGRA and experimental, untested crap that doesn't do anything, but is pushed by big Pharma corporations through Junkets.

And if they can't now, or can only minimally, how much will they be able to when they are forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and charge everyone the same rate?

Medicare has the sickest of people as it's clientele, Old People, and their overhead costs are 15% lower than private insurers. Admittedly, Medicare is non-profit, but obviously there is something that can be done to keep costs low, isn't there?

This bill stacks the deck against middle class people who have insurance now. Anyone who is young will get insured IF the premiums will be less than the penalty. But they don't typically use health insurance.
People without health insurance probably can't get it now because of high risk. They will represent an overall net loss to insurers.
People will pay the penalty (i.e. tax) until they get sick. Then they will sign up for coverage and the companies cannot refuse them. This was the experience in MA.
The whole thing is so fucking stupid unbelievable that anyone would believe the cost estimates or the program itself I cannot imagine. The very worst part of this stinking turkey is that it wont go into effect until AFTER the 2012 election. So the public will have no idea they've been snookered until after Obama gets re-elected.

This is all rationalization. Health Insurance companies are making LOTS of money. Enough to pay off every politican they can find.
And executives who work for Health Insurance companies get LOTS of money. Say, there's a good place to start cutting expenses!

Class warfare rears its ugly head. You cannot go after insurance companies without having them go out of business. And insurance companies make lots less money than many other companies.
But you obviously dont have a clue about economics or health insurance. So any discussion is a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

This is all rationalization. Health Insurance companies are making LOTS of money. Enough to pay off every politican they can find.
And executives who work for Health Insurance companies get LOTS of money. Say, there's a good place to start cutting expenses!

And the moonbat chimes in with more loony "big business bad" childishness. Go back to Starbucks and have another Frappe you pussy.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The insurance companies are like, you know, making lot's of money and are like, you know, ripping us off and like, Halliburton man and like, you know, we're being taken by the man ands you know, like, big business and stuff...

Geeze Louise.

 

[Vast LWC]

The problem with this:
more gov departments created (red tape, lines at DMV or airport security, make the connection)
oversite cannot be appealed: THERE IS NO WRITTEN PROTECTION FOR PATIENTS
the person(s) in power will not be accountable to the citizens, their word will be absolute control over citizens and their families

Alright, hold the phones here...

Corporations are not accountable to anyone. If a corporation kills someone, the shareholders cannot be held criminally liable. Therefore there is DEFINITELY no written protection for patients with a corporation. In addition, if a corporation screws over a customer, that customer cannot vote against the head of the corporation in an election.

As far as the government goes, there is always written protection for patients, it's called the Constituion. And the people in power in a Representative government are, by definition "accountable to the citizens" through the voting booth.

[this can mean: forced organ donation (alive or dead), forced sterilizations and abortions for selective (up to gov) portions or areas of the country, limiting health care in selective areas (if the gov wants to increase or decrease populations in particular areas of the country, the health care is moved accordingly), gov being able to limit health care for families with "too" many children, removing medical devices surgically implanted to be used in other patients, and any other horror you can think.

No, it can't mean any of that, because that would be against the LAW.

THERE IS NO WRITTEN PROTECTION, THAT MEANS THE PATIENTS/CITIZENS HAVE NO PROTECTION FROM THE GOV CONTROLLING THEIR HEALTH CARE

A public option does not "Control Health Care", it provides an alternative method to facilitate PAYMENT for health care.

A public option has nothing to do with the actual health care industry, it has to do with the Health INSURANCE industry.

If the gov "reforms" health care insurance:
patients could purchase the coverage they need
if they are unhappy with the insurance coverage, they can switch companies (not possible once gov takes over, I know it won't be all at once, but once they get ahold of the monies spent on health care, they will find a way to get it all...)
the gov can also increase flexibility with medical savings accounts (carry for more than one year, leave balance to heirs, etc)
the gov can also encourage tort reform
All of that can be done without the gov (new medical departments and the IRS) having our most personal information and that of our spouses, and children, and parents, and friends, etc.

National Healthcare is really scary.

There has been no proposal at all in this legislation to put a system of Nationalized Healthcare in place. Period.

No one has even suggested it since the process began.

The "public option" is a COMPROMISE between people who have an idealized dream of having Nationalized Healthcare, and people who believe that government should have nothing at all to do with health care.

That is why Olympia Snowe is willing to talk about it and put her input into the mix so that the compromise is made on her terms.

In other words, she's being RATIONAL.

 

[Vast LWC]

Class warfare rears its ugly head. You cannot go after insurance companies without having them go out of business. And insurance companies make lots less money than many other companies.
But you obviously dont have a clue about economics or health insurance. So any discussion is a waste of bandwidth.

How is pointing out that Health Insurance Companies are ripping off EVERYONE, class warfare?

Because I mentioned that the CEO's of said companies were making a lot of money at the expense of the average American?

Did I say that those CEO's were somehow representative of rich people in general? No, I clearly did not.

 

[veritas]

I don't understand this "class warfare" BS. What classes are there? There's the mega rich and then there are the rest of us. The rest of us are the largest contingent and enable the mega rich to be so mega rich. The rest of us are comfortable, or not so comfortable or very vulnerable, or all of us a very vulnerable.......one step away from no insurance because it is tied to a job or a business. How big does your nest egg have to be to cope with a catastrophic medical need? $5M? And how many people have that kind of depth without including their home??? Not many. Nobody on here.

 

[Vast LWC]

and I have always liked the fact that Maine has produced some of the nation's best moderate republican senators.... from Maggie Smith and Bill Cohen to Oly Snowe and Susan Collins.... we like 'em smart up here in Maine, and we like 'em not so partisan that they get to loving their party more than they do their country.

How does bankrupting the nation equate with "loving" their country?

The health insurance proposal currently on the table has been shown by the CBO to REDUCE the deficit.

Perhaps you can explain to us all how that is "bankrupting the country"?

 

[Vast LWC]

And the moonbat chimes in with more loony "big business bad" childishness. Go back to Starbucks and have another Frappe you pussy.

You'd like that, wouldn't you?

Sorry, as Bush senior would say "Not gonna happen"...

And just because your personal view of "good business" includes CEO's that get paid 600 times the average salary of their employees, whether they do a good job or not, doesn't mean that that's actually good for business. In fact, it's very bad for business, and much worse for the people that cost is passed on to.

 

[The Rabbi]

Class warfare rears its ugly head. You cannot go after insurance companies without having them go out of business. And insurance companies make lots less money than many other companies.
But you obviously dont have a clue about economics or health insurance. So any discussion is a waste of bandwidth.

How is pointing out that Health Insurance Companies are ripping off EVERYONE, class warfare?

Because I mentioned that the CEO's of said companies were making a lot of money at the expense of the average American?

Did I say that those CEO's were somehow representative of rich people in general? No, I clearly did not.

No, see there you go again.
They are not "ripping off" anyone. That is false. If it were true, people wouldn't buy health insurance.
They are not making money at the expense of anyone. Not anymore than say Brittany Spears or Keith Olbermann. See, this is called "capitalism." It means that people can make as much money as they are able to.
They are providing a valuable service to people. Thus they get paid well for it. Like anyone in computers, entertainment, etc etc.

 

[The Rabbi]

and I have always liked the fact that Maine has produced some of the nation's best moderate republican senators.... from Maggie Smith and Bill Cohen to Oly Snowe and Susan Collins.... we like 'em smart up here in Maine, and we like 'em not so partisan that they get to loving their party more than they do their country.

How does bankrupting the nation equate with "loving" their country?

The health insurance proposal currently on the table has been shown by the CBO to REDUCE the deficit.

Perhaps you can explain to us all how that is "bankrupting the country"?

Because the CBO estimate includes items that go beyond questionable, like paring back Medicare costs 25%. That aint gonna happen because it's never happened. A more realistic scoring suggests it will cost over $1T.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OK, CrusaderTank, thanks for your comments.

 

[Rozman]

What have I learned recently....40% of all the money that the Federal Government takes in now as taxes
is used to pay.....just the interest on the massive loans the government has taken on.This health care
nonsense better not cost us any more money.

 

[Vast LWC]

No, see there you go again.
They are not "ripping off" anyone. That is false. If it were true, people wouldn't buy health insurance.
They are not making money at the expense of anyone. Not anymore than say Brittany Spears or Keith Olbermann. See, this is called "capitalism." It means that people can make as much money as they are able to.
They are providing a valuable service to people. Thus they get paid well for it. Like anyone in computers, entertainment, etc etc.

People buy health insurance because they are FORCED to buy health insurance or face the prospect of going bankrupt if something should happen to them.

And they are often forced to choose between a limited number of monopolistic corporations, that fix prices, and screw them when they actually get sick.

Peoplel can live without a computer, or entertainment, but they cannot live without health insurance without the fear of losing eveything they own at any given moment.

 

[Vast LWC]

Because the CBO estimate includes items that go beyond questionable, like paring back Medicare costs 25%. That aint gonna happen because it's never happened. A more realistic scoring suggests it will cost over $1T.

So, the CBO estimates are fine when they go against the Democrats, like when they showed record deficit numbers, but if they favor the Democrats they're wrong?

Well, that's an interesting way to look at things.

 

[Vast LWC]

What have I learned recently....40% of all the money that the Federal Government takes in now as taxes
is used to pay.....just the interest on the massive loans the government has taken on.This health care
nonsense better not cost us any more money.

Actually it's 25%, and yes that is paid on interest on the federal debt created under the Reagan, Bush and Bush adminstrations.

As far as the health bill goes, it's estimated to save on the deficit, not add.

 

[Vast LWC]

In fact, 11.1 Trillion dollars of the debt was either run up during the last three Republican administrations, or caused by interest on that debt.

of the remaining 800 billion, 400 Billion can be attributed to the 4 presidents before Reagan, and another 400 Billion is attributable to Obama, mainly due to the Stimulus package.

Mr Reagan himself ran up about 4 Trillion dollars of that debt, not including interest, and George W Bush contributed close to 7 Trillion, including the deficit that existed at the beginning of this year, before Obama took office.

Of the 1.6 Trillion Dollars added to the debt this year, 1.2 Trillion existed on January 7th, one month BEFORE Obama took office.

 

[veritas]

Class warfare rears its ugly head. You cannot go after insurance companies without having them go out of business. And insurance companies make lots less money than many other companies.
But you obviously dont have a clue about economics or health insurance. So any discussion is a waste of bandwidth.

How is pointing out that Health Insurance Companies are ripping off EVERYONE, class warfare?

Because I mentioned that the CEO's of said companies were making a lot of money at the expense of the average American?

Did I say that those CEO's were somehow representative of rich people in general? No, I clearly did not.

No, see there you go again.
They are not "ripping off" anyone. That is false. If it were true, people wouldn't buy health insurance.
They are not making money at the expense of anyone. Not anymore than say Brittany Spears or Keith Olbermann. See, this is called "capitalism." It means that people can make as much money as they are able to.
They are providing a valuable service to people. Thus they get paid well for it. Like anyone in computers, entertainment, etc etc.

Patently false assertions. They provide a skimming of money that would otherwise would go to providers for a much smaller administrative cost. The value is to the companies themselves. They provide nothing.

 

[Polk]

oh...they'll respond. the wingnuts will call her a RINO cause she's not a loon.

On this issue, she's more liberal than a lot of Senate Democrats.

 

[Polk]

ok....if i owned a private insurance company....and if the public option existed.....i would continue to cherry pick my clients and serve those that paid the most and got sick the least.....the government would then be forced to insure the the high risk group and the tax payer would have to subsidize the cost as the high risk crowd would end up costing them more and would not be able to pay the high premiums to cover their care.....

Except that the legislation prevents you from denying policies on the basis of pre-existing conditions.