I have seen the light

[midcan5]

If you were serious you would change your appalling avatar.

A happy family is appalling! This ain't helping at all.

 

[Jarhead]

It is -quite- difficult to have an intelligent conversation w/ people that do not understand the basic terminology of that conversation.

Never mind that there's no such thing as a 20-rd clip, for any gun.

please explain.
I have seen 20 round clips...well actually....2x10 round clips come to think of it...based on the size of the mag

You have seen 20-rd magazines.
Clips and magazines are entirely different things.
A clip feeds ammo into a magazine.

Yes....thats what I said,,,
2x10 round clips in a 20 round mag

 

[M14 Shooter]

please explain.
I have seen 20 round clips...well actually....2x10 round clips come to think of it...based on the size of the mag

You have seen 20-rd magazines.
Clips and magazines are entirely different things.
A clip feeds ammo into a magazine.

Yes....thats what I said,,,

No, its not.
You said:

I have seen 20 round clips

No, you have not.

 

[Jarhead]

You have seen 20-rd magazines.
Clips and magazines are entirely different things.
A clip feeds ammo into a magazine.

Yes....thats what I said,,,

No, its not.
You said:

I have seen 20 round clips

No, you have not.

Wow...chill out man...

I said:

I have seen 20 round clips...well actually....2x10 round clips come to think of it...based on the size of the mag

I corrected myself as I wrote it.

Jeez.

Lighten up

 

[saveliberty]

If you were serious you would change your appalling avatar.

A happy family is appalling! This ain't helping at all.

I actually like that picture. It makes the Obamas relateable. Helps me like the person, even though I disagree on the politics. Civility if you will.

 

[Foxfyre]

Much better to have things regulated like delaying an airport expansion for four years due to the possibility a specific fruit bat might live in the area.

Create criminal protections that guarantee crimnals more rights than victims in every case.

Wanting to define how each person should act and live under the guise of helping and caring.

And ignore that spotted owl nesting in the Kmart sign.

 

[Avorysuds]

Neg rep for a dumb thread.

 

[midcan5]

Lighten Up."Rush" has done the same thing more than a couple of times for fun. It's all good. In his own way, maybe Midcan5 is learning from Rush. I say we chip in and get him a Gitmo Mug for his hot chocolate.

'Lighten up,' I like that.

"But the deep background that lies behind and beyond what we call humor is revealed only to the few who, by instinct or by effort, have given thought to it. The world's humor, in its best and greatest sense, is perhaps the highest product of our civilization. Its basis lies in the deeper contrasts offered by life itself: the strange incongruity between our aspiration and our achievement, the eager and fretful anxieties of today that fade into nothingness tomorrow, the burning pain and the sharp sorrow that are softened in the gentle retrospect of time, till as we look back upon the course that has been traversed, we pass in view the panorama of our lives, as people in old age may recall, with mingled tears and smiles, the angry quarrels of their childhood. And here, in its larger aspect, humor is blended with pathos till the two are one, and represent, as they have in every age, the mingled heritage of tears and laughter that is our lot on earth." Stephen Leacock

 

[M14 Shooter]

Something you wouldnt be able to do if the weapon itself were not legal in the US.

Aside from this being irrlevant to what I said...
What makes you say that?

I was just thinking out loud...sorry...wasnt meant to be adversarial.
Trying to figure this whole debate out...thats all.

There's not much to figure out.

People who know little or nothing about guns continually argue unsound positions regarding them. You can be 'open minded' and listen to these people if you like, but in the end, their positions are -shown- to be unsound, and thus, thoroughly discardable.

 

[Jarhead]

Aside from this being irrlevant to what I said...
What makes you say that?

I was just thinking out loud...sorry...wasnt meant to be adversarial.
Trying to figure this whole debate out...thats all.

There's not much to figure out.

People who know little or nothing about guns continually argue unsound positions regarding them. You can be 'open minded' and listen to these people if you like, but in the end, their positions are -shown- to be unsound, and thus, thoroughly discardable.

You do not need to know the ins and outs of any legislation to dsicuss the vitrues or evils of the result of the legislation.

Actually, learning the ins and outs is what the debate is for.

Please tell me why you would need a semi atomatic weapon with a magazine that holds 30+ rounds.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have been converted, years of common sense conservative and republican thought have won me over. I am saved. But I will need help as I transition a mind lost so long in liberalism. So please correct any lingering liberal ideas as I reform myself.

I now believe: Freedom is all you need and government should leave us alone. The Federal deficit started in 2009. Unions and teachers are the fault of our educational woes. Fannie and Freddie all by themselves caused the financial meltdown. The unemployed are not looking for jobs and are lazy to boot. Taxes are bad bad bad. Corporations are the best and really honest people. Global warming is a fraud made up by tree huggers. Our founding principles were perfect, Ms Bachmann showed me the way. Slavery was really kinda nice. Social Security, Medicare, and Healthcare are socialism. Minimum wage is too high and outsourcing is just great. Joe McCarthy was just one super guy. And Sarah, Glenn, and Michelle Bachmann are super patriots who really know history. Any criticism of American policy is anti American hate. Am I right so far?

So fellow conservatives, republicans, tea partyers, and righties, what have I missed? Help me see more of the light.

Well gee Midcans. Though I think you need to hire a better press agent here, I don't know what the leftwing is going to do without you. But hey, I can be as magnanimous as the next person and I suppose I should step into the void you will leave in that other world.

The Left is right. Freedom is highly overrated. Let's just ignore the incredible progress made when it is protected and encouraged and believe that people who are less free accomplish more.

And of course the Federal deficit didn't begin in 2009. It began with the first inaugeration of George W. Bush who has spent every dime that has been spent since that day.

And Fannie and Freddie played no part in the financial meltdown of 2008 or the next one looming if they aren't reformed and soon.

And extending unemployment year after year has absolutely no effect on the unemployment rate. Absolutely nobody would take advantage of a program that pays them not to work.

And all taxes are good. The more of them we can impose the better off we'll be most especially when they give private enterprise less power and the government more. Government good. Corporations bad.

And of course it is important to continue to increase taxes, limit energy production, and reduce options, opportunities, choices, and freedoms of the people despite the fact that almost all climate scientists who don't have an investment in AGW are skeptical that it is occuring.

And we should make it a federal crime to teach the principles of those evil Founding Fathers who created the greatest nation the world has ever known and more especially so the people who presume to applaud and/or teach them now.

And I suppose it is okay to continue to spread the lies re conservative views of slavery, McCarthyism, etc. because we have to blame somebody. And of course lets don't ignore when our liberal policies perpetuate different forms of slavery and McCarthyism. No need to look at that too closely.

Medicare, Medicaid, universal healthcare, etc. and all other necessities of humankind are too important to not provide whether or not we put everybody at risk with a insolvent and bankrupt government.

And suggestions that people are far better off when they work for what they have, when they accept responsibility for the choices they make, when they are accountable for the damage they do, and when they are free is an ignorant pipe dream unrelated to any reality and those proposing that are meanspirited, greedy, corrupt, hateful, and ignorant people clinging to their Bibles and guns.

Yep. I am looking forward to being a liberal. It is so much less complicated than that conservatism stuff.

 

[saveliberty]

Well, all of us Conservatives are lemmings, so Bonsi!

 

[M14 Shooter]

You do not need to know the ins and outs of any legislation to dsicuss the vitrues or evils of the result of the legislation.

But you DO need to know something of the subject matter - else, you're speaking from ignorance.

Actually, learning the ins and outs is what the debate is for.

If people would accept their ignorance and learn from what they are told, you'd have a point. Most often, they simply decide to remain ignorant.

Please tell me why you would need a semi atomatic weapon with a magazine that holds 30+ rounds

I have three. Each of them is suitable for any lawful purpose one might have for a gun, not the least of which is the excercise of the right to self-defense, individually or collectively.

I "need" one like I "need" to be able to express my opinion by covering a statue of Mary in feces and dropping it into a vase full of dog urine, or like I "need" to be able to vote form whomever I choose.

 

[Nosmo King]

Does limited government mean doing away with consumer protection?

Does freedom and liberty mean the freedom to move your factory to Asia and then get a tax break for doing so?

Does equal rights mean equality for some Americans but not all?

Are corporations trusted more than government? Should corporations be held to any accountability at all, or is this just limiting their freedom?

Should the religious views of some Americans be celebrated while the views of other Americans be repressed?

Are property rights more precious than civil rights?

If some speech is too dangerous to be expressed, are some guns too dangerous to be fired?

 

[Foxfyre]

Does limited government mean doing away with consumer protection?

Not at all. In order to promote the general welfare, the federal government is exercising its responsibility by doing what it reasonably can to keep people from unknowingly ingesting or using harmful or potentially lethal products. The federal government, however, oversteps its constitutional responsibility and authority by dictating what foods or products the people will be allowed to use despite any warnings of harmfulness.

Does freedom and liberty mean the freedom to move your factory to Asia and then get a tax break for doing so?

Yes, A free people lives and works anywhere it wants to so long as the rights of others are not infringed. You have no right for me to provide you a job. As for tax policy, if it promotes the general welfare; i.e. generates opportunity, jobs, prosperity for Americans, it is the prerogative of free people. It must be available to all. If it is targeted at rewarding or benefitting the friends of those making tax policy, it is unethical, corrupting, and should be illegal.

Does equal rights mean equality for some Americans but not all?

Yes. Equal rights means everybody gets the same shot to try. It does not mean that everybody starts out on the same footing or will achieve the same outcome.

Are corporations trusted more than government? Should corporations be held to any accountability at all, or is this just limiting their freedom?

Corporations should be held accountable to the law. The law should ensure that Corporations (and everybody else) does not infringe on the unalienable, legal, constitutional, or civil rights of others. And then they should be left alone to do what they do. Whether government or corporations are trusted more is a non sequitur and irrelevent.

Should the religious views of some Americans be celebrated while the views of other Americans be repressed?

The First Amendment denies government the legal ability to reward or punish any individual or group for their religious views. Protection of unalienable rights prevent repression of any individual or group for anything legal.

Are property rights more precious than civil rights?

Yes, because if property rights are not inviolable, there are no civil rights.

If some speech is too dangerous to be expressed, are some guns too dangerous to be fired?

You'll have to be more specific here. The only speech that should ever be illegal is that which compromises or violates the unalienable rights of others. It should be illegal to fire guns indiscriminately at property or people as all are dangerous in such a case. But if you or I or those we love are being threatened, I don't care what kind of gun is used to protect our unalienable rights.

 

[uscitizen]

She made lots of money, why did she not save more if it to PROVE that people with vurtually NO extra income could survive to old age without it?


She knew she needed the money and hid her taking of it from the public.


Now if she felt intitiled to it like ALL who pay in then she sould have proudly taken it in full view of her public.

I think she was intitled to it, she paid in like everyone else.

There was no need to hide that she took it was there.


Paul Ryan received it as a child when his father died and his father paid into it and it saved the Ryan family.



SS has saved many families this way and sholuld continue to save many families this way as it was designed to do.

Its a great progam.

Very good Point there that most have missed.

Rand DID prove herself to be WRONG.

Quite an assumption.

If she had all the money the government confiscated in order to fund the Ponzi scam of SS she very well might have had millions more dollars.

But I guess we'll never know will we?

Ohh she only drew something like 10K from SS. Her big payoff was Medicare which had only been in existence for 6 years. She could not have paid in very much in 6 years

 

[Skull Pilot]

Very good Point there that most have missed.

Rand DID prove herself to be WRONG.

Quite an assumption.

If she had all the money the government confiscated in order to fund the Ponzi scam of SS she very well might have had millions more dollars.

But I guess we'll never know will we?

Ohh she only drew something like 10K from SS. Her big payoff was Medicare which had only been in existence for 6 years. She could not have paid in very much in 6 years

but one cannot draw SS if they do not use medicare.

So in order to get the money the government took from her, she had to go on medicare and if she is on medicare she can't purchase a full coverage health insurance policy and why would she?

Seems to me either way SS and medicare are designed to keep people dependent on the government.

When there is no choice, it's very difficult if not impossible to extrapolate outcomes.

 

[Jarhead]

You do not need to know the ins and outs of any legislation to dsicuss the vitrues or evils of the result of the legislation.

But you DO need to know something of the subject matter - else, you're speaking from ignorance.

Actually, learning the ins and outs is what the debate is for.

If people would accept their ignorance and learn from what they are told, you'd have a point. Most often, they simply decide to remain ignorant.

Please tell me why you would need a semi atomatic weapon with a magazine that holds 30+ rounds

I have three. Each of them is suitable for any lawful purpose one might have for a gun, not the least of which is the excercise of the right to self-defense, individually or collectively.

I "need" one like I "need" to be able to express my opinion by covering a statue of Mary in feces and dropping it into a vase full of dog urine, or like I "need" to be able to vote form whomever I choose.

I am noty questioning your right to own one.
I am not questioning the legality. It is legal.
I am not questioning whether or not your reason is for lawful purposes...I assume it is already.
Likewise, I dont doubt you have a reason beyond just your "right to won one or more".

But I am asking you....what is that reason you feel the need to own one or more guns with 30 round mags?

As for the other stuff you said...becuase you do not know ICD-9 and CPT4 (assuming you dont) does that mean it is irrespoinsible for you to debate healthcare?

As for "daring to be ignorant"...I did as it pertains to your reason....I asked why...and you skirted the question and told me the reason(s) are lawful and within your right...but you did not tell me what they (it) are.

 

[M14 Shooter]

But I am asking you....what is that reason you feel the need to own one or more guns with 30 round mags?

I -use- my rifles for several things - primarily several different forms of competition as well has personal defense, both of the home and away from same. The rifles in question are among the most effective platforms for each.

As for the other stuff you said...becuase you do not know ICD-9 and CPT4 (assuming you dont) does that mean it is irrespoinsible for you to debate healthcare?

Its -impossible- to have a reasoned discussion about a subject that you know nothing about.
:shrug:

 

[Jarhead]

Does limited government mean doing away with consumer protection?

No. Consumer protection is a viable cause...within reason. The FDA is vital to ensure we do not consume things that are toxic.

Does freedom and liberty mean the freedom to move your factory to Asia and then get a tax break for doing so?

Sure...some do it. Most dont. Freedom allows for this.

Does equal rights mean equality for some Americans but not all?

Other than the fact that a black man and a gay man both have the right to claim "hate crime" which will result in a stiffer penalty to the assailant, who else gets more "rights" than others?

Are corporations trusted more than government? Should corporations be held to any accountability at all, or is this just limiting their freedom?

Corporations either earn or lose our trust by their actions. If you want to invest in a company, do your research and if you lose, so be it. You certainly wont be claiming "foul" if you win with the investment.

Should the religious views of some Americans be celebrated while the views of other Americans be repressed?

Who is saying we should celebrate anyones religious views? However, all should have the right to celebrate their own...thus why companies have "personal days" and "floating holidays"

Are property rights more precious than civil rights?

Why should one preculude the other?

If some speech is too dangerous to be expressed, are some guns too dangerous to be fired?

I beleive yes to both.

Best answers I can give ya Nosmo