I Have A Question. Answers are not Mandated. I am a Republican.

[uscitizen]

He? I expect the mine ownership is muddled up and a conglomerate of owners and such.
It is the corporate way of avoiding peronsal responsibility.
One of the main reason for the existence of corporations.

 

[Avatar4321]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

Yes because unions would have prevented this situation. Those evil mine owners like just killing off their miners and needing to conduct a job search every 3 months.

You've always been a fairly rotten person, but sometimes you go over the top that make you even more disgusting than normal.

I used to think that too many right wingers have drunk the kool-aid.

Take Unions. They have given us the 40 hour work week, paid vacations, overtime and holidays.

Republicans have voted against child labor laws, health care, minimum wage and Social Security. At the same time, cutting corporate taxes and removing regulations that lead to disasters just like this very one.

I keep thinking, are they stupid, evil, sick? But I realize, it's a different mindset. Democrats believe the health of the country is reflected by it's citizens. Republicans think the health of the country is reflected by it's corporations. To Republcians, the US is like a beehive. So what if a few bees die or the sick bees die off? It's the hive that's important. They go where they are told and believe what they are ordered to believe, for he good of the hive.

Another delusional rant?

Unions didnt give us the 40 hr work week, paid vactions, overtime, or holidays. Especially not holidays unless you're suggesting that unions have existed for thousands of years.

We've had thousands of years without regulations controling every aspect of life. The whole concept of liberty is lost on you. It's downright scary that people are as paranoid about businesses as you are.

There is nothing evil about a corporation, sole proprietorship, partnership, or LLC. People don't go around targeting their employees. If they did, they would quickly go out of business.

I have news for you. Not everyone views the employees as pathetic peons like you do. We live in the real world. Where treating people poorly is bad business and destroying your best capital is completely stupid.

Minimum wage destroys jobs. Especially Federal minimum wage which is stupid because prices fluxuate from region to region.

Social security is unconstitution and a complete deception to the people. It's the greatest ponzi scheme in existance. You lie to people and tell them that if they pay now they will be taken care of later in life. But you spend that money on other things and to pay the older people now in the hopes that most of the people will die before they ever come to collect. But now that the population has shifted and you are paying out more than you are taken it, it's a completely certainly that the system won't survive long enough for anyone currently entering the workforce to benefit from it. Not to mention the amounts paid to the elderly are a fraction of what they paid. There is nothing noble about lying to people.

Child labor laws should not be a Federal issue. It's up to the states to decide how to enforce industry within their own state.

But you don't really care for that do you? You want all power to Federal government, everyone else be damned. As long as you can pretend to care, you're happy with outsourcing your responsibility to care for your neighbor.

 

[Avatar4321]

Because they would be fired, and from what I understand in that area, there is no other work. Not really and this pos owner knows it.

You really think so poorly of them don't you?

 

[uscitizen]

Because they would be fired, and from what I understand in that area, there is no other work. Not really and this pos owner knows it.

You really think so poorly of them don't you?

Umm what does that have to do with an area that you either work for the govt or the coal industry. Or a business supported by the coal industry?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Most union activity revolves around workplace issues rather than cash Willow. Sometimes to ridicules levels, as the Master GM-UAW agreement was supposed to weigh about 40 lbs. of agate type.


You ever see a plant go union, cash is usually the last thing on the workers minds.

 

[Avatar4321]

Because they would be fired, and from what I understand in that area, there is no other work. Not really and this pos owner knows it.

You really think so poorly of them don't you?

Umm what does that have to do with an area that you either work for the govt or the coal industry. Or a business supported by the coal industry?

Because you want to limit people as hopeless. There are always options and choices for them. Pretending they are helpless is an insult to their humanity.

 

[Zona]

Because they would be fired, and from what I understand in that area, there is no other work. Not really and this pos owner knows it.

You really think so poorly of them don't you?

In that area, can you link me to job opportunities? Mining is the main business there and its a generational job. If you cant provide any other vocation for those people up there, shut the fuck up and stop pulling crap out of your ass.

Oh and God bless.

 

[Zona]

You really think so poorly of them don't you?

Umm what does that have to do with an area that you either work for the govt or the coal industry. Or a business supported by the coal industry?

Because you want to limit people as hopeless. There are always options and choices for them. Pretending they are helpless is an insult to their humanity.

You are blaming the victims here. Why not make it so they have a safe environment to work in. When your father, his father and his father does something, its a really good chance you will as well and that is what is happening up there.

The owner of this place is a piece of shit who knows this and is all about making money. This all feels like republican crap (and he is a righty, big time) and they absolutely need a union up there. Safety has to be priority number one and his type could care less judging by his memo and his many many citations for safety.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

Oh my,, somebody has been watching mr. ed. Why can't they refuse to work in an unsafe mine without the union?

Already answered. From #10: "If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs."

 

[MaggieMae]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

so here's my next question. coal mining is something I know little about, I know it's hard dangerous dirty work.. can these families sue the pants off this company? I hope they do.

So you like lawyers now? Depends on the "damage" claim, I suppose. A wrongful death mining coal is no different than a wrongful death due to medical malpractice.

 

[WillowTree]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

so here's my next question. coal mining is something I know little about, I know it's hard dangerous dirty work.. can these families sue the pants off this company? I hope they do.

So you like lawyers now? Depends on the "damage" claim, I suppose. A wrongful death mining coal is no different than a wrongful death due to medical malpractice.

are you the same way about all things all the time and never vary your opinions based on situation???? you are fucking boring..

 

[MaggieMae]

Methane doesn't care whether a mine is union or non-union. It's just there and could blow at any time. I understand you can't smell the methane gasses. Massey is a pretty big name in coal and it appears that it really doesn't give a damn - they have multiple ongoing safety violations.

Mining is a hard, dirty, unhealthy job ... but generations of people work the mines. It's all they know and they do have families to take care of. The people of Appalachia are strong people and have a very deep faith. It's a horrible thing they're going through, but they will get themselves and each other through it.

Problem is there was a citation issued for failure to properly ventilate on March 30th. A week later.....

Mining is a dangerous job, and yes these are tough people who understand the risks. I don't disagree there. Accidents can happen even when all safety precautions are taken. But when they're not, and men are lost who never had to be, there's a problem.

I've been waiting for the charge to be made that it was the UMWA that deliberately caused the blast so they'd score some political points.

 

[jillian]

Most union activity revolves around workplace issues rather than cash Willow. Sometimes to ridicules levels, as the Master GM-UAW agreement was supposed to weigh about 40 lbs. of agate type.


You ever see a plant go union, cash is usually the last thing on the workers minds.

that's untrue... wages; job security; health and retirement benefits; SAFETY....

but you can always tell us about your experience negotiating union contracts.

 

[WillowTree]

Most union activity revolves around workplace issues rather than cash Willow. Sometimes to ridicules levels, as the Master GM-UAW agreement was supposed to weigh about 40 lbs. of agate type.


You ever see a plant go union, cash is usually the last thing on the workers minds.

that's untrue... wages; job security; health and retirement benefits; SAFETY....
but you can always tell us about your experience negotiating union contracts.

none of that worked out too well for GM and Chrysler did it??

 

[jillian]

Most union activity revolves around workplace issues rather than cash Willow. Sometimes to ridicules levels, as the Master GM-UAW agreement was supposed to weigh about 40 lbs. of agate type.


You ever see a plant go union, cash is usually the last thing on the workers minds.

that's untrue... wages; job security; health and retirement benefits; SAFETY....
but you can always tell us about your experience negotiating union contracts.

none of that worked out too well for GM and Chrysler did it??

didn't work out so good for the miners, did it?

 

[MaggieMae]

They ventilate by other means during normal operations, but that option isn't available after an explosion and possible cave in. I'm sure they are taking the shortest road.

I'm not doubting you here - but how in the hell do you know this?

Umm a lot of the ventillation flow is thru the mine tunnel and if it is caved in.....

I worked a couple of summers for a mining engineering company.
And grew up in mining country. My grandfather was a lifelong miner and others in my family as well.

I don't know why they don't still use canaries. Not every archiac idea was bad.

Life for an actual canary in a coal mine could be described in three words - short but meaningful. Early coal mines did not feature ventilation systems, so miners would routinely bring a caged canary into new coal seams. Canaries are especially sensitive to methane and carbon monoxide, which made them ideal for detecting any dangerous gas build-ups. As long as the canary in a coal mine kept singing, the miners knew their air supply was safe. A dead canary in a coal mine signalled an immediate evacuation.

 

[WillowTree]

that's untrue... wages; job security; health and retirement benefits; SAFETY....
but you can always tell us about your experience negotiating union contracts.

none of that worked out too well for GM and Chrysler did it??

didn't work out so good for the miners, did it?

were they unionized?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Avatar's comments so far are worthless and can be ignored.

I have read the remainder with interest. The question here concerns the heart of Progressivism: not whether regulation is needed but rather how much.

 

[WillowTree]

Avatar's comments so far are worthless and can be ignored.

I have read the remainder with interest. The question here concerns the heart of Progressivism: not whether regulation is needed but rather how much.

from what I've gathered a mandate for ventilation is in order. if they can ventilate it now they could have ventilated it from the beginning.

 

[jillian]

none of that worked out too well for GM and Chrysler did it??

didn't work out so good for the miners, did it?

were they unionized?

i think your point was that GM and Chrysler were hurt by unions. (I happen not to agree... I think they were hurt by golden parachutes and bad product and poor choices of what to manufacture).

But my point was that NOT being unionized hurt the miners.

I think I win.