I am NOT against Electric Vehicles...I want to see them as an alternative!!!

[Flash]

California bans sales of new gas-powered cars by 2035.
It was hailed as a landmark decision for the environment:
The California Air Resources Board voted in August to require that all new automobiles and light trucks sold in the state be zero emission by 2035.

The move, aimed at tackling climate change, has been cheered by many. Just not mom-and-pop gas station owners.

Now the real work begins. Girding for turmoil, gas station owners gloomily point out unresolved issues related to the new CARB rule.Oct 30, 2022

California's gas-car phaseout brings turmoil to mom-and-pop gas stations

A ban on sales of new gas-powered cars and light trucks is years off, but mom-and-pop gas station owners are already facing a dilemma: evolve for the EV era or sell out and move on?

www.latimes.com

This will destroy California's already declining economy.

The free market should decide the kind of vehicles the people can have, not some stupid ill conceived government mandate issued by idiotic Environmental Wackos.

 

[elektra]

electric vehicles are the height of stupidity

 

[healthmyths]

$844 billion for wind turbines.
It would actually be a mix of solar & wind & other stuff.
But the USA consumes 369 millions of gas per day, so it doesnt take long to get up to $844 billion. Perhaps a year and half to spend that much on gasoline.

Also, car charging can be done on a timer, to charge overnight to avoid peak demand periods. Just would need more charging parking spots.

A) Now where is substantiation for $844 billion for wind turbines?
Now here are the facts:$149 Trillion to build 1,424,571 WTs and to maintain the WTs on 85,474,278 acres or 133,000 square miles.
Now you wrote..."Also, car charging can be done on a timer, to charge overnight to avoid peak demand periods."

B) So where does the electricity come from to charge overnight? 80% of EV cars/trucks will require nearly 340% MORE electricity.
And you think spending $149 TRILLION to build WIND TURBINES ? Are you ready for your grandkids to be paying for this?
Again the difference between your speculation and my FACTS... why is it so hard to find the links to prove the reality that 80% EV cars/trucks
will require 340% more electricity or 14.4 Trillion kWh than the currently 4.165 Trillion generated today?
Where is that 340% more electricity come from?

 

[ABikerSailor]

There's a serious flaw in you peoples thinking who are against EV's.

Mainly, you are using PROJECTED estimates of what the number of EV's could be in the future against CURRENT electrical output.

When EV's start to become mainstream in their use, various companies who see a profit in making charging stations (as well as car companies seeing a benefit in easier charging models), they will adjust the tech on the EV's as well as start building infrastructure to support them.

Gas stations are all over the place right now. When autos first hit the market, people were screaming that they would never replace the horse, as well as saying that there was no infrastructure for them to get fuel. Guess what? People in the past were wrong on both counts. When EV's start to become mainstream, you can bet your ass that companies who see a profit in providing power will start to build it.

 

[healthmyths]

There's a serious flaw in you peoples thinking who are against EV's.

Mainly, you are using PROJECTED estimates of what the number of EV's could be in the future against CURRENT electrical output.

When EV's start to become mainstream in their use, various companies who see a profit in making charging stations (as well as car companies seeing a benefit in easier charging models), they will adjust the tech on the EV's as well as start building infrastructure to support them.

Gas stations are all over the place right now. When autos first hit the market, people were screaming that they would never replace the horse, as well as saying that there was no infrastructure for them to get fuel. Guess what? People in the past were wrong on both counts. When EV's start to become mainstream, you can bet your ass that companies who see a profit in providing power will start to build it.

HEY!!!! Where will the charging stations get their electricity??? Wind Turbines? Solar Panels?
I've researched evidently a lot more than people like you are into where will the electricity come from?
You all keep talking about re-chargers... but where will the electricity for the re-chargers come from WIND TURBINES???

Explain to me how spending:$149 Trillion to build 1,424,571 WTs and to maintain the WTs on 85,474,278 acres or 133,000 square miles.

So where does the electricity come from to charge overnight? 80% of EV cars/trucks will require nearly 340% MORE electricity.
And you think spending $149 TRILLION to build WIND TURBINES ? Are you ready for your grandkids to be paying for this?
Again the difference between your speculation and my FACTS... why is it so hard to find the links to prove the reality that 80% EV cars/trucks
will require 340% more electricity or 14.4 Trillion kWh than the currently 4.165 Trillion generated today?

Now again prove these numbers are wrong! Please do a little math and tell me where 340% more electricity is coming from?

 

[dudmuck]

A) Now where is substantiation for $844 billion for wind turbines?
Now here are the facts:$149 Trillion to build 1,424,571 WTs and to maintain the WTs on 85,474,278 acres or 133,000 square miles.
Now you wrote..."Also, car charging can be done on a timer, to charge overnight to avoid peak demand periods."

B) So where does the electricity come from to charge overnight? 80% of EV cars/trucks will require nearly 340% MORE electricity.
And you think spending $149 TRILLION to build WIND TURBINES ? Are you ready for your grandkids to be paying for this?
Again the difference between your speculation and my FACTS... why is it so hard to find the links to prove the reality that 80% EV cars/trucks
will require 340% more electricity or 14.4 Trillion kWh than the currently 4.165 Trillion generated today?
Where is that 340% more electricity come from?

View attachment 786130

you originally gave a price of $844,701,697,211 for the wind turbines.
Which it appears that with last year's gasoline spending, it would take 1.5 years to reach that spending.
But now youre giving $149 trillion. The GDP of the entire world was $104 trillion last year.

 

[ABikerSailor]

HEY!!!! Where will the charging stations get their electricity??? Wind Turbines? Solar Panels?
I've researched evidently a lot more than people like you are into where will the electricity come from?
You all keep talking about re-chargers... but where will the electricity for the re-chargers come from WIND TURBINES???

Explain to me how spending:$149 Trillion to build 1,424,571 WTs and to maintain the WTs on 85,474,278 acres or 133,000 square miles.

So where does the electricity come from to charge overnight? 80% of EV cars/trucks will require nearly 340% MORE electricity.
And you think spending $149 TRILLION to build WIND TURBINES ? Are you ready for your grandkids to be paying for this?
Again the difference between your speculation and my FACTS... why is it so hard to find the links to prove the reality that 80% EV cars/trucks
will require 340% more electricity or 14.4 Trillion kWh than the currently 4.165 Trillion generated today?

Now again prove these numbers are wrong! Please do a little math and tell me where 340% more electricity is coming from?
View attachment 786136

EV's won't take over the roads overnight. As the demand increases for electricity, companies will see the profit to be made and build the necessary power stations to supply the required energy.

At one time, gasoline was considered a waste product from the oil industry when they produced kerosene. Someone figured out how to use it in an engine, and then gasoline became a product that was refined and used. Refineries didn't pop up overnight either.

 

[elektra]

yawwwwwwwwn

Electric cars are older than gas powered cars.

1835 was the first electric, the late 1800's saw this

sure is taking a long time to catch on, I wish I could live another 150 years to see it become mainstream

 

[healthmyths]

EV's won't take over the roads overnight. As the demand increases for electricity, companies will see the profit to be made and build the necessary power stations to supply the required energy.

At one time, gasoline was considered a waste product from the oil industry when they produced kerosene. Someone figured out how to use it in an engine, and then gasoline became a product that was refined and used. Refineries didn't pop up overnight either.

BUT there wasn't any government interference with market demand!
The idiots in D.C. and people like you are thinking wow we can help reduce CO2 emissions by forcing Americans to convert to EVs and we'll reduce Emissions!
In the meantime this totally ignorant position INCREASES CO2 emissions by products used by EVs that gets the majority of the sources from this country that does nearly 30% of all emissions and yet truly ignorant people don't use the internet to be informed!
And in the meantime with 90% of all cars/trucks being EVs will require 340% more electricity than we use today.

 

[healthmyths]

you originally gave a price of $844,701,697,211 for the wind turbines.
Which it appears that with last year's gasoline spending, it would take 1.5 years to reach that spending.
But now youre giving $149 trillion. The GDP of the entire world was $104 trillion last year.

And of course dummies like you think a number is not affected by another set of numbers! GEEZ!!!
The word you evidently are totally unaware of is "DYNAMIC" as you are definitely a "STATIC" person.
Change in a little more calculations, like duh... 40% of all CARS/TRUCKS being EVs is and I know you don't comprehend the difference but
if 90% of all cars/trucks being EVs .... duh that means there will be at more than 2 times the number of EVs ...hence more wind turbines!
According to "The Science"
Ninety Percent of U.S. Cars Must Be Electric by 2050 to Meet Climate Goals
There were not only possibly fewer EVs i.e. 40%? vs 90% .... but maybe there was a mix of WTs and Solar panels! But if you don't provide any links then you are just guessing and that's the problem with EV advocates!

 

[healthmyths]

you originally gave a price of $844,701,697,211 for the wind turbines.
Which it appears that with last year's gasoline spending, it would take 1.5 years to reach that spending.
But now youre giving $149 trillion. The GDP of the entire world was $104 trillion last year.

You are totally wrong.
A) When was last year... 2022
B) Your totally unsubstantiated guess was $104 Trillion GDP. WRONG as it was $100 Trillion. FACTS!!!

Global GDP 1985-2029 | Statista

The statistic shows global gross domestic product (GDP) from 1985 to 2022, with projections up until 2029.

www.statista.com

 

[dudmuck]

You are totally wrong.
A) When was last year... 2022
B) Your totally unsubstantiated guess was $104 Trillion GDP. WRONG as it was $100 Trillion. FACTS!!!
View attachment 786247

Global GDP 1985-2029 | Statista

The statistic shows global gross domestic product (GDP) from 1985 to 2022, with projections up until 2029.

www.statista.com

This one says 103.86 trillion for 2022.
Its just a few percent off, and would be just how they count it.
The point is that the cost of wind turbines 1.5x that of the entire world's GDP is absurd.

 

[YoursTruly]

Except in the Communist states the Democrats are forcing you to buy one with mandates.

No one is forcing anyone to live in those states. And I'm quite sure there's more than just this one reason to leave those leftist shithole states.

 

[EMH]

All that is required to know is that as Co2 increased in the atmosphere, the two and only two measures of atmospheric temps = satellites and balloons, showed NO WARMING before being FUDGED by taxpayer funded liars/traitors.

Key claim against global warming evaporates

Satellite and weather balloon data used to argue that climate models were wrong and that global warming isn't really happening turns out to be based on faulty analyses, according to three new studies.

www.nbcnews.com

Big government lies to make itself important, to scare, to make itself the savior.

Co2 does absolutely nothing and has cost America over $20 trillion and counting.

 

[Flash]

All that is required to know is that as Co2 increased in the atmosphere, the two and only two measures of atmospheric temps = satellites and balloons, showed NO WARMING before being FUDGED by taxpayer funded liars/traitors.

Key claim against global warming evaporates

Satellite and weather balloon data used to argue that climate models were wrong and that global warming isn't really happening turns out to be based on faulty analyses, according to three new studies.

www.nbcnews.com

Big government lies to make itself important, to scare, to make itself the savior.

Co2 does absolutely nothing and has cost America over $20 trillion and counting.

Satellites are not very accurate for measuring temperatures. They are calibrated to be +/- 4F. So when they tell you that the ocean temperature has risen .5F they could be way off. They are also very difficult to keep calibrated.

Then you have the fact that NASA and NOAA have been caught falsifying data.

 

[EMH]

have been caught falsifying data

.... to show "warming" that DOES NOT EXIST IN THE ACTUAL DATA

 

[healthmyths]

This one says 103.86 trillion for 2022.
Its just a few percent off, and would be just how they count it.
The point is that the cost of wind turbines 1.5x that of the entire world's GDP is absurd.

OH I agree on one point with you... 1.5 times the world's GDP is absurd! THAT's why I am showing the following numbers!
PLEASE ... PLEASE be an honest person and explain where the below FACTS supported by the links from the EXPERTS I've provided ARE WRONG ?
OK.. let's really look at the below..
1) Additional kWh of 14,410,963,320,000 is based on 80% of cars AND TRUCKs you didn't calculate that did you... are EVs.
2) Assuming at 14,263 average per driver in USA will require 650,963,320,000 kWh IN ADDITION to what we currently use of 4.154 Trillion kWh.
3) But you forgot TRUCKS!!! 80% of EV trucks averaging 4.3 kWh/ mile driving 84,433 miles a year or 3,200,000,000,000 miles means:
4) 13,760,000,000,000 kWh! AND YOU and others forget about the nearly 37 million trucks if 80% are EVs!!!
5) Finally total cost to construct and to run 1 Wind Turbine that generates 10,116,000 kWh/year for one year: $104,922,000 !

Remember just one WT requires 60 acres of land management for each megawatt produced.
Remember the land is usually leased and the lease prices go up as the land becomes scarce...
OH ONE VERY MAJOR point I didn't add into the below which is true whether powers plants are by WTs, solar panels, etc...
HOW does the electricity get from the power plants to the home?
IT is called the GRID!!! NO cost has been calculated for what additional grid costs will be to move 14.4 Trillion kWh.
Today it cost just for grid transmission after adjusting for inflation, major US utilities spent using 2020 dollars, and spending on
delivery was 4.3 cents/kWh in 2020,

US power transmission, distribution costs seen outpacing electricity production costs

US utility transmission and distribution costs have been rising faster than electricity production costs over the past decade, with utility spending on power delivery 65% higher in 2020 than in 2010,

www.spglobal.com

To deliver to the homes 14.4 Trillion kWh through the entire GRID, will cost an additional $619,671,422,760... who pays that???
"Building transmission lines in the U.S. is like herding cats.
All of the stakeholders in the construction of a new line — utility companies, regulators, landowners — have to come to an agreement, and they may have competing interests.
Ultimately, electricity customers pay for new transmission lines via a surcharge in their electric bill. The amount must be approved by regulators."

Why it's so hard to build new electrical transmission lines in the U.S.

Building transmission lines in the U.S. is a slow process with many stakeholders, and the delays are holding back the country's clean energy transition.

www.cnbc.com

SO please do a little validation research, check the links, check the math and do WAY more than just give a total uninformed opinion!

"

 

[healthmyths]

Satellites are not very accurate for measuring temperatures. They are calibrated to be +/- 4F. So when they tell you that the ocean temperature has risen .5F they could be way off. They are also very difficult to keep calibrated.

Then you have the fact that NASA and NOAA have been caught falsifying data.

As the following page I created (based on experts' contributions) the primary source of temperature recordings have been as the below described... by humans with human eyeballs and human handwriting. So when recording was computerized those human deficiencies were suppose to be minimized. But the original recordings were still used as the BASIS point.
Then another major question regarding "global warming" temperatures was that nearly 12.5% of the Earth's land mass was minimally included into the temperature readings for nearly 50 years. The IEA admitted as much...follow the links!
Finally, Most people especially the climatechangevangelistas, have no idea what 'An urban heat island", or UHI is. It is a metropolitan area that's a lot warmer than the rural areas surrounding it. Heat is created by energy from all the people, cars, buses, and trains in big cities like New York, Paris, and London urban Heat Island.
So even though urban areas constitute 95% of the world's population is concentrated on just 10% of the world's land;

Urbanization: 95% Of The World's Population Lives On 10% Of The Land

A new global map measures urbanization from the new perspective of Travel Time to 8,500 Major Cities. The map fills an important gap in our understanding of economic, physical and even social connectivity.

www.sciencedaily.com

So any rational, logical person assuming cities with heat islands affect the temperatures taken in areas where "UHIs" are i.e. large cities, will have readings higher than remote areas. That's a given. But has that adjustment made that reports since 1880 the temperature is 1.53 degrees warmer?

 

[dudmuck]

OH I agree on one point with you... 1.5 times the world's GDP is absurd! THAT's why I showing the following numbers!
PLEASE ... PLEASE be an honest person and explain where the below FACTS supported by the links I've provided ARE WRONG from the EXPERTS?
OK.. let's really look at the below..
1) Additional kWh of 14,410,963,320,000 bases on 80% of cars AND TRUCKs you didn't calculate that did you... are EVs.
2) Assuming at 14,263 average per driver in USA will require 650,963,320,000 kWh IN ADDITION to what we currently use of 4.154 Trillion kWh.
3) But you forgot TRUCKS!!! 80% of EV trucks averaging 4.3 kWh/ mile driving 84,433 miles a year or 3,200,000,000,000 miles means:
4) 13,760,000,000,000 kWh! AND YOU and others forget about the nearly 37 million trucks if 80% are EVs!!!
5) Finally total cost to construct and to run 1 Wind Turbine that generates 10,116,000 kWh/year for one year: $104,922,000 !

Remember just on WT requires 60 acres of land management for each megawatt produced.
Remember the land is usually leased and the lease prices go up as the land becomes scarce...
OH ONE VERY MAJOR point I didn't add into the below which is true whether powers plants are by WTs, solar panels, etc...
HOW does the electricity get from the power plants to the home?
IT is called the GRID!!! NO cost has been calculated for what additional grid costs will be to move 14.4 Trillion kWh.
Today it cost just for grid transmission.
After adjusting for inflation, major US utilities spent using 2020 dollars, and spending on delivery was 4.3 cents/kWh in 2020,

US power transmission, distribution costs seen outpacing electricity production costs

US utility transmission and distribution costs have been rising faster than electricity production costs over the past decade, with utility spending on power delivery 65% higher in 2020 than in 2010,

www.spglobal.com

To deliver to the homes 14.4 Trillion kWh through the entire GRID, will cost an additional $619,671,422,760... who pays that???
Building transmission lines in the U.S. is like herding cats.
All of the stakeholders in the construction of a new line — utility companies, regulators, landowners — have to come to an agreement, and they may have competing interests.
Ultimately, electricity customers pay for new transmission lines via a surcharge in their electric bill. The amount must be approved by regulators.

Why it's so hard to build new electrical transmission lines in the U.S.

Building transmission lines in the U.S. is a slow process with many stakeholders, and the delays are holding back the country's clean energy transition.

www.cnbc.com

SO please do a little validation research, check the links, check the math WAY more than just give a total uninformed opinion!

View attachment 786354

The tesla semi truck consumes 1.7KWhours per mile, as far as i'm aware.
And i thought they were trying to get it down to 1.2 kilowatt hours.

For cars, its 3.2 trillion miles per year, which is 832Mwatt-hours per year.
In 2022, electrical generation was 4,243Mwatt-hours, which means that our current power generation needs to increase by a fifth to power all cars. I'm not sure if that 3.2 trillion miles includes trucks.

 

[healthmyths]

The tesla semi truck consumes 1.7KWhours per mile, as far as i'm aware.
And i thought they were trying to get it down to 1.2 kilowatt hours.

For cars, its 3.2 trillion miles per year, which is 832Mwatt-hours per year.
In 2022, electrical generation was 4,243Mwatt-hours, which means that our current power generation needs to increase by a fifth to power all cars. I'm not sure if that 3.2 trillion miles includes trucks.

NOT one piece of PROOF!!!
Now here are changes due to corrections you possibly raised.

FACT: Trucks in use....
38.9 million trucks registered and used for business purposes (excluding government and farm) in 2020, representing 24.1% of all trucks registered. Economics and Industry Data

Miles per truck/ Year
In general, truck drivers are expected to drive between 285 and 430 miles per day, or 2,000 and 3,000 miles a week (in accordance with the restriction of 70-hour maximum over eight days in the U.S. How Many Miles Do Truckers Drive a Year?
Correction to attached spreadsheet to 3,000 miles per week X 50 weeks(minus vacation) equal 100,000 miles.

The predicted battery energy consumption is 1.89 kWh/mile.

Battery capacity and recharging needs for electric buses in city transit service (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

So I revised the attached data sheet to reflect the reduction in my data.

DECREASE based on revised data is 8.0 Trillion ADDITIONAL kWh due to decreased kWh of trucks.
Decreased number of WTs due to smaller amount of kWh.
Decreased cost from $149 trillion to $83 Trillion.
These are facts not guesses and especially not substantiated that you did!