"Hubris": New Documentary Reexamines the Iraq War "Hoax"

[MikeK]

You know what would be fun? If Rachel Maddow leaked a rumor that her next documentary was going to be about the life of John McCain.

He would go ballistic, thinking she was going to lay out his 5 crashed planes, his incident aboard that ship, and his corruption during the Keating Five all over again for the American public who have been hoodwinked by this "Maverick".

No I think he would see it just for what it is, just like everyone else would at this point and time, where as it would be viewed as yet another desperate left wing smear campaign, then concocted against anyone in power,[...]

"Smear campaign?" Did he or didn't he wreck five planes, create a disastrous fire on board a carrier?, and was he not among the five senators who improperly intervened in the investigation of the perpetrator of the Lincoln Savings and Loan Association fraud?

The real bottom line where McCain is concerned is there is nothing truly heroic about anything he did or endured in Vietnam. He did suffer. So did many thousands of others who served there but who did not rise to high political office because of their family's connections.

If you wish to know who John McCain really is, just do a little Google research. There is a lot there to be learned and it's not part of any "smear campaign."

 

[Political Junky]

You know what would be fun? If Rachel Maddow leaked a rumor that her next documentary was going to be about the life of John McCain.

He would go ballistic, thinking she was going to lay out his 5 crashed planes, his incident aboard that ship, and his corruption during the Keating Five all over again for the American public who have been hoodwinked by this "Maverick".

No I think he would see it just for what it is, just like everyone else would at this point and time, where as it would be viewed as yet another desperate left wing smear campaign, then concocted against anyone in power,[...]

"Smear campaign?" Did he or didn't he wreck five planes, create a disastrous fire on board a carrier?, and was he not among the five senators who improperly intervened in the investigation of the perpetrator of the Lincoln Savings and Loan Association fraud?

The real bottom line where McCain is concerned is there is nothing truly heroic about anything he did or endured in Vietnam. He did suffer. So did many thousands of others who served there but who did not rise to high political office because of their family's connections.

If you wish to know who John McCain really is, just do a little Google research. There is a lot there to be learned and it's not part of any "smear campaign."

Yes, father & grandfather were both admirals, and John graduated Annapolis near the bottom of his class.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[MikeK]

At least George Bush took action against someone who was oppressive to his people, who was killing the Kurds with acid chemicals being dropped from Helicopters upon them, thus causing us to keep a no fly zone on him "Hussein", in order to save these people or to try and save them, then how about all the lies this dictator was constantly running from his ministry of misinformation, and his boasting and threats we had to endure constantly by this tyrant and his sons ? How about those two sons of his, and their raping and pillaging the women at their low life sorry choosing ? How about the very reason we had to send in all these inspectors because of his taunts and lies and constant threats to the region ? How about his flight into Kuwait, and then us having to walk with gloves out of respect for his sympathizers found in the world, otherwise to not finish him off and his reign of terror then ? How about his threats to George Senior for order of his assassination after his pushing Sadam turned madman out of Kuwait? How about we ask the Kuwaiti's about Sadam being taken down finally, and see what they say ? How about we ask the new Iraqi Prime minister about Sadam being taken down and see what he say's? How about we ask the Saudi's about Sadam being taken down and see what they say ? Has the region without Sadam been a little safer for these people? I could go and on and on about the good that came from taking down Sadam, but it wouldn't fit with your smear campaign to protect Benghazi maybe, and the other problems that have come to past by either Barack Obama's actions or in-actions. Take your choice.

Do you think any of this was worth the cost of nearly 4,500 American lives, the maiming of tens of thousands more, a (so far) ten year engagement which has cost us enough treasure to solve all of our economic problems and more, and the utter devastation of the country and the people we were supposed to be rescuing?

What oppressed and suffering people do you think we should rescue next? And do you have any sons and/or brothers, or maybe yourself, who lives and limbs you're willing to sacrifice in support of the effort?

 

[MikeK]

Bush 41 could have easily avoided the FIRST U.S.-Iraq War.

Bush 43 could have easily avoided the SECOND U.S.-Iraq War.

And what, let the Kuwaiti's fend for themselves, and forget about them as our friends along with our oil interest in which they were our allies on?

Allies? Kuwait was an ally? Like Israel is an ally?

What exactly do you mean by the word, ally?

 

[Lakhota]

Bush and Cheney should be on trial at The Hague for war crimes.

 

[Political Junky]

Bet he regretted that statement, or maybe not.

 

[Lakhota]

When Will George W. Bush Be Tried for His War Crimes?

Types of War Crimes « GEORGE W. BUSH, WAR CRIMINAL?

George W. Bush Admits He's A War Criminal In New Book | Crooks and Liars

George W. Bush Convicted of War Crimes, Can't Leave U.S. Fearing Arrest | The Libertarian Review

 

[Mac1958]

Pub pundits, who seem to be running the party these days, or since 1992, are mainly undereducated charlatans who'll say anything for a buck and form a huge propaganda machine that lies nonstop and has the dupes in an alternate universe- see "Obama's sequestration, O gutted workfare, grabs guns, had total control first 2 years,is a tyrant LOL, see sig pp3.

Maddow is a Rhodes scholar who doesn't lie, or link?. Thanks for the depression, the stupidest wars ever, 9/11, and 3 1/2 years of mindless obstruction, now becoming an OBVIOUS disgrace...even for dupes.

Not hard to Google "rachel maddow lies" and come up with some stuff, unless the person doing the searching refuses to believe what they read, or if they're ready to spin away from it.

Perhaps your definition of lying is different from mine. I believe that purposely leaving out pertinent and contrary information from a "report" is clearly intellectually dishonest, and that constitutes "lying" in my book. You may actually believe that you're getting the whole story from her, I don't know. If that's the case, not much I can say.

And a person's intelligence and their intellectual honesty are mutually exclusive character traits. I would guess that's common knowledge.

.

Why don't you tell us some lies that Maddow has told?

Did you not read my post?

.

 

[Cammmpbell]

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I can't assume what a partisan is telling me is the whole story, no way. If I can't hear both sides of a story, there's no way I can make a final decision. That's just me.

.

It's pretty obvious to see what's going on when the government dismisses the conlcusions of their nuclear experts and goes with a story from an informant that the British and Italian intelligence agencies have both said the guy couldn't be trusted.

When the IAEA say's the uranium tubes were not the right kind for enriching uranium, how can anyone justify Cheney dismissing that finding, when he doesn't know squat about the technology?

How can George Bush say one of the reasons for going to war was because Hussein refused to allow UN inspectors in Iraq, when they were already there driving around in white vans.

Or the more obvious thought that popped into my head when he said Iraq was a threat, which is...

"how is a country of goat-herders, that we bombed back to the stone-age in the first Persian Gulf war, that has barely any running water or electricity, 9000 miles away with no navy, a threat to a country that has the most technologically advanced military the world has ever seen?"​

There's ten things which nailed it but the one about the tubes being for rockets instead of centrifuges would have cinched it for me. The expert brought the tube samples to Oak Ridge, TN where the U-235 material came from a barrier tube process to make the original Hiroshima bomb and which was the world leader in centriguge research until the old plant went into shutdown. In other words the expert acquired a second opinion. He said he was disappointed, disgusted and insulted when he heard the administration making a case for those tubes being obtained for use in a centrifuge. Cheney used phrases like "no doubt" and "has been proven" and "expert opinion" when referring to the tubes and other deceptive points....nothing but bare faced lies. I don't see how he kept a straight face when he was speaking.

This has become historical, proven fact with dated video documentation to leave for future generations. Something which was pretty well unheard of till a few decades ago. Hopefully it will serve to prevent the same kind of deception 50 or 100 years from now.

 

[Billo_Really]

There's ten things which nailed it but the one about the tubes being for rockets instead of centrifuges would have cinched it for me. The expert brought the tubes to Oak Ridge, TN where the original U-235 material came from a barrier tube process to make the original Hiroshima bomb and which was the world leader in centriguge research until the old plant went into shutdown. He said he was disappointed, disgusted and insulted when he heard the administration making a case for those tubes being obtained for use in a centrifuge. Cheney used phrases like "no doubt" and "has been proven" and "expert opinion" when referring to the tubes. In other words nothing but a bare faced lie. I don't see how he kept a straight face when he was speaking.

This has become historical, proven fact with dated video documentation to leave for future generations. Something which was pretty well unheard of till a few decades ago. Hopefully it will serve to prevent the same kind of deception 50 years from now.

What did it for me, was how much Bush was hyping them up as a threat.

I thought to myself, "how much of a threat can you be on 9 hours of electricity a day?"

Because back at that time, that was all the power they had the ability to generate.

 

[Truthmatters]

I recall that year in the leadup to the "shock and awe" crap as one of the worst years of my life.

Its why I went into the internets.

I was just blown away to see the entire Media just take a pass on confronting the obvious lies of the Bush administartion.

 

[Sallow]

And what, let the Kuwaiti's fend for themselves, and forget about them as our friends along with our oil interest in which they were our allies on?

It was never about the Kuwaitis as "friends" or about "self-determination" or about freedom from tyranny or any of those high-sounding ideals. It was ALWAYS about oil. And it wasn't JUST about Kuwait's oil. It was about Saudi oil since there was nothing standing between Saddam and the Saudi oil fields other than hundreds of miles of desert.

And Sadam would've wanted the Saudi Oil next maybe ? Hey whose to say what this tyrant would have done if we would have allowed him to take what he wanted in that region? Do you think there should have been no intervention in Kuwait by us or anyone, I mean once Sadam invaded that nation for it's oil fields or control of that oil ?

Again.

Kuwait was not a friend or an ally. In fact..Saddam Hussien went to the United States prior to the invasion to let us know what was going to happen. He was practically given the go ahead. What the US did not expect was that the Iraqis were going to take the whole country. And oil companies began to complain about it. So did the Saudis. The whole thing was handled terribly.

 

[Sallow]

Could be in Syria, just as some WMD gas had been reported upon lately or was it that they had boasted about it recently (the Syrian government) maybe? Wasn't there a report on this recently ?. Wasn't there a report about the gas they have or something about that gas being in Syria now ? There was another topic on this, and it sure was interesting indeed, because it was debated on here as to where did this gas come from? He had chemicals (used on the Iranians), because he was using them also on the Kurds as it was dropped from helicopters, but this was acid or something as was reported, but are we sure of that ? He had plenty of time to get rid of these stockpiles, as we gave him a good bit of time, and this happened as we tippy towed around trying to conduct inspections at his permission while in country. If he had nothing to hide, he sure had a weird way of showing it, I mean this guy sacrificed his entire nation to without a secret that ummmm didn't exist ? Think about it..............................

He "had" chemical munitions given to him by the United States.

You folks are really something else.

You think if he still had anything..he would have let America roll Iraq without a fight?

The Syrians, palease... they were scared to pieces of the United States power, and only served as a distant assistant in other ways to Sadam, where as they knew it not wise to help a madman sacrifice his nation in the way that Sadam did, in which could have sacrificed their own nation in the process if got knowingly involved.

It worked out anyway, because now that the dictator is gone in Iraq, it made the people feel in that region that they might not have to suffer under such dictators for long anymore, and therefore they are trying to rise up and change things now in these places, and it is not by Obama speaking a bunch of empty speak to them about how we are arrogant and such, but it was by the actions and deaths of our soldiers who liberated Iraq from a tyrant, as well as ran the Taliban out of Afghanistan. Our use of power has created hope if anything for those who are oppressed, and they had taken our lead after the domino's began to fall. Barack still uses our military to create hope from the tribal areas of Pakistan, and in other areas where these drones have been killing terrorist it is a strong message being sent, just as well as taking out Osama Bin Laden or the on going military operations that started with Bush in which the left seems to love to adopt when convenient for them and their cause for the moment, then it's back to bashing Bush for their own personal agenda's.

Oh you are talking about Sadam being given chemical weapons from us, and he was going to or would have used those weapons before we could roll him eh ? He was to afraid to use those weapons against us, even if he would have had the ones we allegedly gave him left, he still would not have used them on us, but you are saying now that he had WMD's in which he would have used, even if they would have come from us? Where did the WMD's we gave him go?

What?

Seriously. You are completely ignoring history. Iraq was already rolled once by the United States. They weren't "scared". They had nothing to fight back with. They really were expecting the invasion.

And the "dictator" is not "gone" in Iraq. The dictators were swapped out. They have a new dictator now..and Islam as a national religion. Something they didn't have before. And they didn't "fall". The rebels were bought out. Part and parcel with the COIN was "bribing" the insurgents to re-patriot them. Something that wouldn't have been necessary if the Bush administration hadn't disbanded the Baathists and the military.

The Taliban aren't out of Afghanistan either. They control huge areas which the United States has essentially ceded to them. Right now the weak central government and the taliban are at a stalemate.

Obama has seemed to have flipped the Bush "nation building" script in favor of letting the natives rule. Short term, it's going to be ugly, because you have a lot of very pissed off people. But over the long term, who knows? Maybe cooler heads prevail. In any case, it's much cheaper just to kill the people that want to attack us..and leave the rest on their own.

 

[Sallow]

Not hard to Google "rachel maddow lies" and come up with some stuff, unless the person doing the searching refuses to believe what they read, or if they're ready to spin away from it.

Perhaps your definition of lying is different from mine. I believe that purposely leaving out pertinent and contrary information from a "report" is clearly intellectually dishonest, and that constitutes "lying" in my book. You may actually believe that you're getting the whole story from her, I don't know. If that's the case, not much I can say.

And a person's intelligence and their intellectual honesty are mutually exclusive character traits. I would guess that's common knowledge.

.

Why don't you tell us some lies that Maddow has told?

Did you not read my post?

.

Maddow doesn't lie.

She's has made mistakes. And she corrects them quickly.

 

[Cammmpbell]

There's ten things which nailed it but the one about the tubes being for rockets instead of centrifuges would have cinched it for me. The expert brought the tubes to Oak Ridge, TN where the original U-235 material came from a barrier tube process to make the original Hiroshima bomb and which was the world leader in centriguge research until the old plant went into shutdown. He said he was disappointed, disgusted and insulted when he heard the administration making a case for those tubes being obtained for use in a centrifuge. Cheney used phrases like "no doubt" and "has been proven" and "expert opinion" when referring to the tubes. In other words nothing but a bare faced lie. I don't see how he kept a straight face when he was speaking.

This has become historical, proven fact with dated video documentation to leave for future generations. Something which was pretty well unheard of till a few decades ago. Hopefully it will serve to prevent the same kind of deception 50 years from now.

What did it for me, was how much Bush was hyping them up as a threat.

I thought to myself, "how much of a threat can you be on 9 hours of electricity a day?"

Because back at that time, that was all the power they had the ability to generate.

Not to mention that they were half way around the globe. Instead of invading Iraq if we had spent that trillion dollars paying down debt we would again be the undisputed leader of the world and tens of thousands of American families would be happier and more capable of the future. It's not over yet....we will be trying to resolve this debt thing for a long time.

 

[Antares]

Your lack of any real historical knowledge is astonishing kid.

It's no problem getting chemical weapons. It's the mushroom clouds that were the lies. Reagan and Rummie loved Saddam and OBL in the 80's. How'd that turn out? Idiotic chickenhawk Reaganism till now...

EVERYONE was all for going to Korea. Ditto Vietnam. Monica was Pubcrappe, Stopped Bill from governing. Pubs have just interfered and screwed up Dems since Rush and the racist charlatans took over the party... FDR? Stop with the BS conspiracies...

 

[Truthmatters]

roo tell us how the leadin to the Iraq war really wnet in your memory?

 

[1Templar]

One must remember that Saddam and Iran hated each other - but thanks to Bush's clusterfuck - Iraq and Iran are now buddies. In that respect, I understand Obama's continued concern...

I don't, please explain it to me if you will. What do you a think would happen if we pulled everything out?

We have no business being there.

Here, let as listen to the sage and wise consul of our dear leader George Washington, shall we?

Observe good faith and justice towards all nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be, that good policy does not equally enjoin it. It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and at no distant period, a great nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a people always guided by an exalted justice and benevolence. Who can doubt that, in the course of time and things, the fruits of such a plan would richly repay any temporary advantages which might be lost by a steady adherence to it ? Can it be that Providence has not connected the permanent felicity of a nation with its virtue ? The experiment, at least, is recommended by every sentiment which ennobles human nature. Alas! is it rendered impossible by its vices?

In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.

So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.

As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils. Such an attachment of a small or weak towards a great and powerful nation dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.

Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. But that jealousy to be useful must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.

Excerpted from George Washington's Farewell Address
17 September 1796
"Beware of Foreign Entanglements"
http://www.100megspop3.com/bark/Beware.html

I know that this farewell speech, is to bolster the argument that we should not have invaded and meddled in Iraq and I agree.

But I couldn't help but think of Israel also. We have favored Israel so much, that they may as well be the 51st state.

 

[Antares]

Lets clear up the whole Bush lied crap, Bush articulated what virtaully EVERY leading politician was saying from BOTH sides of the isle were saying.

Having said that, Iraq was a mistake.
WE had the Taliban on the ropes in Afghanistan AND we had Bin Laden stuck in Tora Bora and we elt them and him get out.

As for Bin Laden in the 80's, we did what we did to help Afghanistan take down the Soviets.
It worked but AS IS USUAL for our Nation we did not calculate the Cultural and Religious
differences of our Society, we have a VERY long history of no thinking past the length of our own dicks.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"....meaning we want hate these guys more than you, so we'll whip them and then deal with you later....and that is EXACTLY what happened.

roo tell us how the leadin to the Iraq war really wnet in your memory?