Howard Stern is fired

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Leading quarterback rusher

By the way, he wasn't even the best in the conference! Daunte Culpepper rushed for more yards. (also passed for more yards, threw more TD's, had a better QB rating, better completion percentage...)

Daunte is not "outstanding" either, although he is improving immensely every year. Donovan has similar stats every year, in fact he has lost some ground in many areas.

 

[LoneVoice]

Let's add this to the mix:

Total Games Won during the Regular Season for the past 3 years
35 (12+12+11) Philadelphia Eagles - Led by McNabb (5 years exp)
34 (14+ 9+11) New England
34 (10+12+12) Green Bay
33 (12+ 7+14) St. Louis
30 (12+11+ 7) Tennessee
30 (10+ 9+11) Miami

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Let's add this to the mix:

Total Games Won during the Regular Season for the past 3 years
35 (12+12+11) Philadelphia Eagles - Led by McNabb (5 years exp)
34 (14+ 9+11) New England
34 (10+12+12) Green Bay
33 (12+ 7+14) St. Louis
30 (12+11+ 7) Tennessee
30 (10+ 9+11) Miami

Are you really this dense? You are citing TEAM statistics and accomplishments! Why is it you can't dispute INDIVIDUAL statistics. I already said Philly had a good team, with an AVERAGE QB.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Let's add this to the mix:

Total Games Won during the Regular Season for the past 3 years
35 (12+12+11) Philadelphia Eagles - Led by McNabb (5 years exp)
34 (14+ 9+11) New England
34 (10+12+12) Green Bay
33 (12+ 7+14) St. Louis
30 (12+11+ 7) Tennessee
30 (10+ 9+11) Miami

0-2 in NFC Championship led by McNabb

 

[LoneVoice]

Actually McNabb and the Eagles made it to the Conference Finals for the last 3 years consecutively, which is quite impressive, especially considering his short 5 year career.

 

[Avatar4321]

Its just good coaching. I just wish they would stop choking in the NFC.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Actually McNabb and the Eagles made it to the Conference Finals for the last 3 years consecutively, which is quite impressive, especially considering his short 5 year career.

Really? and.. how many times have the New England Patriots made it to the Conference finals in the past few years? How many of those times did they win those games and make it to the Superbowl? How many superbowls have they won?

Ever hear of anyone calling Tom Brady an outstanding quarterback?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Actually McNabb and the Eagles made it to the Conference Finals for the last 3 years consecutively, which is quite impressive, especially considering his short 5 year career.

Yes, they have a damn good team.

If they had more than an AVERAGE QB they may have went even further.

I notice you still refuse to backup your talk of how "outstanding" Donovan is with numbers.

You lose.

 

[LoneVoice]

OK.... let's just get to the point....

You're saying that McNabb's individual stats aren't good.
I say that stats don't always demonstrate everything.
I post messages that talk about McNabb's skill and abilities that regard him as outstanding.
I post messages that demonstrate some of his awards and recognitions.
I post messages that demonstrate the number of games he and his team have won for the past 3 seasons which have led him to the Conference Finals for each of those 3 years.
No matter how many positive posts are put up about McNabb, you're not going to recognize him as an above average QB.

Kurt Warner has some career stats that rates pretty high. Yet, he was replaced by Bulger simply because the team was winning when he was QB. The Rams finished 12-4 for the season.

When you try to find a QB or most any player in sports, stats do not always define the total picture. You have to be able to look at the variables with regards to that particular situation. For example, Troy Aikman was a very efficient and statistically sound QB. But, even in his prime, not every team would benefit from the characteristics that he held. He was a very accurate, but pretty slow and non-elusive QB, so he relied on a strong & effective offensive line, and other features. When the offensive line reduced in its effectiveness, Troy was no longer as effective and then started getting concussions and was knocked out of the league.

First of all, I say that right now, McNabb is one of the top 10 starting quarterbacks currently in the league. That would be above average.

Now, in this day of sports whether it be Football, Basketball, Baseball, ... the most important factor is, is your team winning and are you performing, and also level of potential? If those factors are no, then whether you are a player, coach, or general manager, you will often be replaced very soon.

The fact is that McNabb is the starting quarterback for the Eagles. The Eagles and their organization are not in discussions with any teams for trading McNabb, nor will they try to use a top pick in the draft to find a new starting QB for the 2004 season. Other quarterbacks have had a chance to play for the Eagles, but McNabb continues to rise to the starting QB.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Actually McNabb and the Eagles made it to the Conference Finals for the last 3 years consecutively, which is quite impressive, especially considering his short 5 year career.

Oops 0-3

 

[jimnyc]

You're saying that McNabb's individual stats aren't good.
I say that stats don't always demonstrate everything.
I post messages that talk about McNabb's skill and abilities that regard him as outstanding.
I post messages that demonstrate some of his awards and recognitions.
I post messages that demonstrate the number of games he and his team have won for the past 3 seasons which have led him to the Conference Finals for each of those 3 years.
No matter how many positive posts are put up about McNabb, you're not going to recognize him as an above average QB.

Average statistics and no championships. What makes him "outstanding" then? Is he outstanding because of his ability to pass the ball? There are MANY QB's rated above him. Is he outstanding because of his rushing ability? 5 or 6 other QB's that are average rish better than him. Is he outstanding because he wins the big games under pressure? Nope, he loses them. Is he outstanding because of his ability to throw TD passes? He just barely cracks the top 20 in the league. Just what is it that makes him outstanding? Because you read it in the papers? LOL

Kurt Warner has some career stats that rates pretty high. Yet, he was replaced by Bulger simply because the team was winning when he was QB. The Rams finished 12-4 for the season.

And what's your point and what does this have to do with McNabb? Warner was a flash in the pan. A great team made him look like a spectacular QB. The truth comes out eventually, like it did with McNabb.

When you try to find a QB or most any player in sports, stats do not always define the total picture. You have to be able to look at the variables with regards to that particular situation. For example, Troy Aikman was a very efficient and statistically sound QB. But, even in his prime, not every team would benefit from the characteristics that he held. He was a very accurate, but pretty slow and non-elusive QB, so he relied on a strong & effective offensive line, and other features. When the offensive line reduced in its effectiveness, Troy was no longer as effective and then started getting concussions and was knocked out of the league.

And he was able to win the big games with Dallas. He passed better than McNabb. He threw more TD's. His accuracy was head and shoulders above McNabb. He was clearly an elite QB and he won the championships as a result.

First of all, I say that right now, McNabb is one of the top 10 starting quarterbacks currently in the league. That would be above average.

That would be your opinion. Too bad the only facts we have to go on speak otherwise. There are MANY QB's that rate higher than him in a shitload of areas. He's second rate material on a good team.

Now, in this day of sports whether it be Football, Basketball, Baseball, ... the most important factor is, is your team winning and are you performing, and also level of potential? If those factors are no, then whether you are a player, coach, or general manager, you will often be replaced very soon.

The Eagles have a decent winning percentage during the regular season but they don't have the talent to win the big games. If mediocrity is their gauge to keep a QB, then who am I to argue. And the fact remains that McNabb is performing at the level of an AVERAGE NFL QB.

The fact is that McNabb is the starting quarterback for the Eagles. The Eagles and their organization are not in discussions with any teams for trading McNabb, nor will they try to use a top pick in the draft to find a new starting QB for the 2004 season. Other quarterbacks have had a chance to play for the Eagles, but McNabb continues to rise to the starting QB.

So they are content with a solid QB who ranks middle of the field in comparison to the rest of the QB's in the NFL. Shit, many of the worst teams with the worst QB's are sticking with their QB's as well! It just means they don't want to go the extra mile to get a championship.

 

[LoneVoice]

Look this is just going around in circles...
If it aint the statistics that you want to see, then you're just going to put him down.

Originally posted by jimnyc
And he was able to win the big games with Dallas. He passed better than McNabb. He threw more TD's. His accuracy was head and shoulders above McNabb. He was clearly an elite QB and he won the championships as a result.

The point is on one particular team, McNabb would be a more effective, better fit. And on another particular team, and under the right circumstances, Troy would be a better fit. You have to make that decision on a case by case basis, and be able to recognize all the variables that provide value and asset. It would be foolhardy to pick Aikman over McNabb for every scenario, and expect to always get better results. That's the point, stats aren't everything.

The Eagles have a decent winning percentage during the regular season but they don't have the talent to win the big games. If mediocrity is their gauge to keep a QB, then who am I to argue. And the fact remains that McNabb is performing at the level of an AVERAGE NFL QB.

This is a prime example of how hard you're trying to minimize the successes for McNabb & the Eagles. Mediocrity is 8 and 8. Their regular season winning record for the past 3 years, is not only above average, it's #1 in the league. You could at least give McNabb and the Eagles acknowledgement for that. Oh no ditto head, maybe you can't....

Outstanding (to use your word) - is defined as having a characteristic that stands out.
Top regular season record for the past 3 years, stands out.
Only team to make it to the Conference championship for each of the last 3 years, also stands out.

Here are some Outstanding Plays by McNabb in the playoffs, which got the Eagles to the conference finals.

In a playoff game against the Green Bay Packers, the Eagles were behind, 17-14. There were 72 seconds left to play.
4th & 26 with everything on the line, which would determine whether the Eagles would make the conference finals. Freddie Mitchell ran straight down the middle and caught a laser pass from McNabb and he had 2 yards to spare. It is arguably the most important pass completion in the 71 seasons in which the Eagles have played football. For they used that play as the springboard to a field goal in the final five seconds to force overtime. Then they won, in OT.

He finished the game with a 90.5 QB rating completing 21-of-39 passes for 248 yards with 2 TD’s. Brett Favre was 15-of-28 with 180 yards, 2 TD’s and 1 very big INT. Hmmmm... He had better stats than Favre in this big playoff game.

McNabb set a playoff record for quarterbacks by rushing for 107 yards, throwing for 248 yards and two touchdowns -- 355 total yards.

Another important stat actually shows that Donovan McNabb had 109 yards himself on that game-tying touchdown drive which officially went into the books as an 89-yard drive. You add the 2 holding penalties and you get a 109-yard drive.

Those are some stats that qualify as outstanding... But I know you won't acknowledge any of these achievements by McNabb. Some people are just never satisfied.....

You can keep up your blind resistance. No matter what you say, I'm done with regards to this issue.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

We know lonevoice, when it comes down to it, statistics and logic are just something white people use to bully the rest of society around. The few, the brave, like you, see the emeror's new logic and have the balls to call it what it is:

"Logic is racism!"

 

[jimnyc]

The point is on one particular team, McNabb would be a more effective, better fit. And on another particular team, and under the right circumstances, Troy would be a better fit. You have to make that decision on a case by case basis, and be able to recognize all the variables that provide value and asset. It would be foolhardy to pick Aikman over McNabb for every scenario, and expect to always get better results. That's the point, stats aren't everything.

All blabber from someone who has lost the argument. Every other "outstanding" QB in the league has the stats and big wins to back it up, McNabb doesn't.

This is a prime example of how hard you're trying to minimize the successes for McNabb & the Eagles. Mediocrity is 8 and 8. Their regular season winning record for the past 3 years, is not only above average, it's #1 in the league. You could at least give McNabb and the Eagles acknowledgement for that. Oh no ditto head, maybe you can't....

Read what I said again, dopey!

"The Eagles have a decent winning percentage during the regular season but they don't have the talent to win the big games. If mediocrity is their gauge to keep a QB, then who am I to argue. And the fact remains that McNabb is performing at the level of an AVERAGE NFL QB."

I said McNabb was at mediocrity, not the team. I've said all along that they had a good team, with an AVERAGE QB. Please learn how to read if you plan on replying in the future.

Outstanding (to use your word) - is defined as having a characteristic that stands out.
Top regular season record for the past 3 years, stands out.
Only team to make it to the Conference championship for each of the last 3 years, also stands out.

Again, stupid, you are citing TEAM GOALS, not player goals. Are you really this dense?

Here are some Outstanding Plays by McNabb in the playoffs, which got the Eagles to the conference finals.

Your game reviews are useless! I can pick any player in the league and pick out a few games that they had career days in. TRY LOOKING AT HIM AS AN OVERALL PLAYER, HE IS AVERAGE THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER!

Those are some stats that qualify as outstanding... But I know you won't acknowledge any of these achievements by McNabb. Some people are just never satisfied.....

You listed a couple of games, stupid! I can give you stats from at least 6-10 games by Kordell Stewart that make him look better than Johnny Unitas. Is Stewart an "outstanding" QB? NO HE ISN'T!

I'll acknowledge Donovan has had a few otstanding games. Too bad the rest of his career has been AVERAGE.

You can keep up your blind resistance. No matter what you say, I'm done with regards to this issue.

If that's the case, YOU LOSE CONVINCINGLY. All you've done throughout this whole dialogue was prove my point further, and for that I thank you.

"You get nothing, YOU LOSE, good day sir!"

 

[acludem]

I'm a big Mizzou football fan and our quarterback (and a possible Heisman candidate) is Brad Smith. Nobody here cares that he's black. He's just a great player and nice person who is a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Limbaugh put his foot in is mouth when he brought up McNabb and the black quarterback thing. He screwed up, so what? I'd like to see what McNabb could do with some decent receivers.

I've heard lots of people call Tom Brady a great quarterback. I'm a big Chiefs fan and think that Trent Green is a fine quarterback. Michael Vick is a great quarterback and so is Steve McNair. Who gives a damn what color their skin is? They're all making more money than I'll ever see, that's for sure.

acludem

 

[jimnyc]

I'm a big Mizzou football fan and our quarterback (and a possible Heisman candidate) is Brad Smith. Nobody here cares that he's black. He's just a great player and nice person who is a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Limbaugh put his foot in is mouth when he brought up McNabb and the black quarterback thing. He screwed up, so what? I'd like to see what McNabb could do with some decent receivers.

Limbaugh didn't screw up. He was 'dead-on' accurate in what he said. It wasn't a racist comment he made nor should it have been controversial at all. He simply made a statement on why he thought McNabb received so much attention. People were up in arms because he pointed out that McNabb was a black QB and that people wanted to see a black man succeed.

"I don't think he's been that good from the get-go," Limbaugh said. "I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

Perfect analysis and certainly more accurate than McNabb's passing.

I've heard lots of people call Tom Brady a great quarterback. I'm a big Chiefs fan and think that Trent Green is a fine quarterback. Michael Vick is a great quarterback and so is Steve McNair. Who gives a damn what color their skin is? They're all making more money than I'll ever see, that's for sure.

Tom Brady - definitely above average but I wouldn't say great.

Trent Green - I'd say about the same as Brady.

Michael Vick - way too early to judge. His passing has been shitty in the 28 games he has played.

Steve McNair - His last 4 years have catapulted him into the elite group. He's been throwing over 60% completions, TD's have skyrocketed and INT's have shot down. Yards per attempt has been one of the highest in the NFL.