How would you change K-12 Schools in America?

[mdn2000]

Business and industry require an educated work force. Nearly every job requires at least a HS diploma, a document which suggests the recipient demonstrated at least the minimum standard necessary in terms of learning and responsibility.
Most tech jobs reqiure at least a two-year certificate or degree; many today require a BS and experience simply to get into an interview.
The ability to read, comprehend, compute and speak clearly are MQ's (minimum standard) for most semi- professional entry careers.
Not every student desires or has the competence for a college degree, yet we seem to want to teach all kids the same way. No wonder our educational system sucks.
And of course the usual solutions, simple solutions to complex problems enjoy much celebrity.

It's not the parents fault. It's not fault of the Unions or the teachers. It is systemic failure, a product of multiple failures on every level, from the kid to the parent to the teacher to the principal; to the school board, to the city, county and state decision makers and to the Congress of the United States.

Packing school boards with religious zealots and partisan hacks has made the process of systemic fix nearly impossible; principals going it alone and not using local resources at the earliest hint of need exacerbate problems more easily mitigated at an early age; and the result seems to squander the greatest assest of kids - curiosity.
School uniforms, prayer in school, private schools, charter school, home schools all ignore the basic issue, school is to prepare children to become responsible adults - able to communicate on an adult level, provide for their own needs and benefit the social order.
On this basic level our system is a failure. What is amazing, some kids flourish; most however get by and never reach their potential because it has been extinguished by adults.

School uniforms, prayer in school, private schools, charter school, home schools all ignore the basic issue, school is to prepare children to become responsible adults - able to communicate on an adult level,

I can not take any of your post serious. You have not any idea of where the problem begin nor ends.

Having to debate, argue, and join with this mentality for a solution is what creates and exaggerates the problem.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Business and industry require an educated work force. Nearly every job requires at least a HS diploma, a document which suggests the recipient demonstrated at least the minimum standard necessary in terms of learning and responsibility.
Most tech jobs reqiure at least a two-year certificate or degree; many today require a BS and experience simply to get into an interview.
The ability to read, comprehend, compute and speak clearly are MQ's (minimum standard) for most semi- professional entry careers.
Not every student desires or has the competence for a college degree, yet we seem to want to teach all kids the same way. No wonder our educational system sucks.
And of course the usual solutions, simple solutions to complex problems enjoy much celebrity.

It's not the parents fault. It's not fault of the Unions or the teachers. It is systemic failure, a product of multiple failures on every level, from the kid to the parent to the teacher to the principal; to the school board, to the city, county and state decision makers and to the Congress of the United States.

Packing school boards with religious zealots and partisan hacks has made the process of systemic fix nearly impossible; principals going it alone and not using local resources at the earliest hint of need exacerbate problems more easily mitigated at an early age; and the result seems to squander the greatest assest of kids - curiosity.
School uniforms, prayer in school, private schools, charter school, home schools all ignore the basic issue, school is to prepare children to become responsible adults - able to communicate on an adult level, provide for their own needs and benefit the social order.
On this basic level our system is a failure. What is amazing, some kids flourish; most however get by and never reach their potential because it has been extinguished by adults.

School uniforms, prayer in school, private schools, charter school, home schools all ignore the basic issue, school is to prepare children to become responsible adults - able to communicate on an adult level,

I can not take any of your post serious. You have not any idea of where the problem begin nor ends.

Having to debate, argue, and join with this mentality for a solution is what creates and exaggerates the problem.

I'm not surprised. Simple solutons appeal to you; there are no simple solutions. Solutions begin by defining the problem(s); unfortunately, pointing fingers and placing blame may identify the cause, but not the problem itself.
I posited a problem; it is systemic. We teach all kids no matter their interests or ability the same way. Until we stop doing the same thing over and over we will never get a different result.

 

[mdn2000]

Business and industry require an educated work force. Nearly every job requires at least a HS diploma, a document which suggests the recipient demonstrated at least the minimum standard necessary in terms of learning and responsibility.
Most tech jobs reqiure at least a two-year certificate or degree; many today require a BS and experience simply to get into an interview.
The ability to read, comprehend, compute and speak clearly are MQ's (minimum standard) for most semi- professional entry careers.
Not every student desires or has the competence for a college degree, yet we seem to want to teach all kids the same way. No wonder our educational system sucks.
And of course the usual solutions, simple solutions to complex problems enjoy much celebrity.

It's not the parents fault. It's not fault of the Unions or the teachers. It is systemic failure, a product of multiple failures on every level, from the kid to the parent to the teacher to the principal; to the school board, to the city, county and state decision makers and to the Congress of the United States.

Packing school boards with religious zealots and partisan hacks has made the process of systemic fix nearly impossible; principals going it alone and not using local resources at the earliest hint of need exacerbate problems more easily mitigated at an early age; and the result seems to squander the greatest assest of kids - curiosity.
School uniforms, prayer in school, private schools, charter school, home schools all ignore the basic issue, school is to prepare children to become responsible adults - able to communicate on an adult level, provide for their own needs and benefit the social order.
On this basic level our system is a failure. What is amazing, some kids flourish; most however get by and never reach their potential because it has been extinguished by adults.

School uniforms, prayer in school, private schools, charter school, home schools all ignore the basic issue, school is to prepare children to become responsible adults - able to communicate on an adult level,

I can not take any of your post serious. You have not any idea of where the problem begin nor ends.

Having to debate, argue, and join with this mentality for a solution is what creates and exaggerates the problem.

I'm not surprised. Simple solutons appeal to you; there are no simple solutions. Solutions begin by defining the problem(s); unfortunately, pointing fingers and placing blame may identify the cause, but not the problem itself.
I posited a problem; it is systemic. We teach all kids no matter their interests or ability the same way. Until we stop doing the same thing over and over we will never get a different result.

You also posted unsubstantiated bullshit which to me makes me question everything you posted.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I can not take any of your post serious. You have not any idea of where the problem begin nor ends.

Having to debate, argue, and join with this mentality for a solution is what creates and exaggerates the problem.

I'm not surprised. Simple solutons appeal to you; there are no simple solutions. Solutions begin by defining the problem(s); unfortunately, pointing fingers and placing blame may identify the cause, but not the problem itself.
I posited a problem; it is systemic. We teach all kids no matter their interests or ability the same way. Until we stop doing the same thing over and over we will never get a different result.

You also posted unsubstantiated bullshit which to me makes me question everything you posted.

I posted an opinion, based on a great deal of diverse experience. My opinion, any opinion, does not need to be subtantiated and you have every right to express you opinion that my opinon is bullshit. Of course calling it bullshit proves nothing other than you lack the ability to offer a counterpoint to my opinon - other than calling it bullshit.
So, explain what you call bullshit and I'll defend my opinion or revise it and apologize. In not doing so I will continue to believe you're an uneducated RW fool.
The ball is now in your court.

 

[Wry Catcher]

LMAO, mdn (mentally deficient numbskull)2000 has cut and run.

 

[irishbrae]

If you make calculus mandatory for all seniors then get ready for a new class of "non-graduates" who just give up and try to go to work. Many kids struggle with algebra..much less calc... why does a cosmetologist need to know differentiation...Instead of making all kids try to live up to some very high standard that some are not capable of..why not offer a truly "higher" path for our brightest kids. They are the real losers when we try to raise the bar for everyone...because it usually results in the bar being lowered so that more can get over it. Why not recognize that there are different levels of interest and ability and cater to each one for the best possible outcome.

 

[mdn2000]

LMAO, mdn (mentally deficient numbskull)2000 has cut and run.

Yes, I cut and ran, the delivery of your rebuttal kept me hiding in my bed, please, I give, I will leave you alone in hopes I dont receive another scathing rebuke.

 

[Big Fitz]

LMAO, mdn (mentally deficient numbskull)2000 has cut and run.

Yes, I cut and ran, the delivery of your rebuttal kept me hiding in my bed, please, I give, I will leave you alone in hopes I dont receive another scathing rebuke.

But did you poop yourself?

 

[Wry Catcher]

LMAO, mdn (mentally deficient numbskull)2000 has cut and run.

Yes, I cut and ran, the delivery of your rebuttal kept me hiding in my bed, please, I give, I will leave you alone in hopes I dont receive another scathing rebuke.

Don't worry yourself, you're as stupid as Revere, CrusaderFrank, Stepanie and a dozen other fools whose ignorance is not willfull.

 

[psikeyhackr]

If you make calculus mandatory for all seniors then get ready for a new class of "non-graduates" who just give up and try to go to work. Many kids struggle with algebra..much less calc... why does a cosmetologist need to know differentiation...Instead of making all kids try to live up to some very high standard that some are not capable of..why not offer a truly "higher" path for our brightest kids. They are the real losers when we try to raise the bar for everyone...because it usually results in the bar being lowered so that more can get over it. Why not recognize that there are different levels of interest and ability and cater to each one for the best possible outcome.

Calculus is less than 350 years old. Double-entry accounting is more than 700 years old.

Why isn't accounting mandatory for EVERYONE?

Fifth graders can learn accounting as well as collegians

Don't cosmetologists and physicists buy homes? Don't they have to pay interest?

So if accounting had been mandatory for EVERYONE since the 50s would we have this economic mess now? Does calculus just waste the time of a lot of smart kids on stuff that doesn't turn out to be very important to most of them?

psik

 

[High_Gravity]

I think more emphasis needs to be put on how to manage money, pay bills, live within your means etc. alot of these stupid fucking kids have no idea what their going to do after High School and they think working part time at Pizza Hut and partying with friends all weekend is the way to go.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I think more emphasis needs to be put on how to manage money, pay bills, live within your means etc. alot of these stupid fucking kids have no idea what their going to do after High School and they think working part time at Pizza Hut and partying with friends all weekend is the way to go.

Of course we have the problem of schools not being able to teach kids that Europeans didn't have the right to steal all of the land and make everyone else pay to live on it.

You can't talk about economics without talking about control of land.

The economic wargame is a continuation of the military wargame by other means.

psik

 

[mdn2000]

I'm not surprised. Simple solutons appeal to you; there are no simple solutions. Solutions begin by defining the problem(s); unfortunately, pointing fingers and placing blame may identify the cause, but not the problem itself.
I posited a problem; it is systemic. We teach all kids no matter their interests or ability the same way. Until we stop doing the same thing over and over we will never get a different result.

You also posted unsubstantiated bullshit which to me makes me question everything you posted.

I posted an opinion, based on a great deal of diverse experience. My opinion, any opinion, does not need to be subtantiated and you have every right to express you opinion that my opinon is bullshit. Of course calling it bullshit proves nothing other than you lack the ability to offer a counterpoint to my opinon - other than calling it bullshit.
So, explain what you call bullshit and I'll defend my opinion or revise it and apologize. In not doing so I will continue to believe you're an uneducated RW fool.
The ball is now in your court.

Explain? I pointed out the bullshit in my post, were you to stupid to see that, you throw that dumb stick around so often it seems you hit yourself in the head.

 

[High_Gravity]

I think more emphasis needs to be put on how to manage money, pay bills, live within your means etc. alot of these stupid fucking kids have no idea what their going to do after High School and they think working part time at Pizza Hut and partying with friends all weekend is the way to go.

Of course we have the problem of schools not being able to teach kids that Europeans didn't have the right to steal all of the land and make everyone else pay to live on it.

You can't talk about economics without talking about control of land.

The economic wargame is a continuation of the military wargame by other means.

psik

Huh? what does any of that have to do with teaching these kids how to fend for themselves? have you talked to a teenager lately? they have NO FUCKING CLUE how to live on their own or how to pay a fucking bill!

 

[Ernie S.]

Stop shoving politics down the students throats.
Teach them the basics. The basics needed to get succesfully by in life.
Get rid of the revisionist "HISTORY" books....Teach them the truth.
Put those beautiful american flags back in the classroom.
If a kid wants to pray, let 'em pray.....If not, fine.
Fire all the teachers who's students on average are failing.
Do away with unionized teachers.

Great start! Do away with multicultural crap and teach American history. Sure George Washington Carver and Martin Luther King are relevant, but far less so than the US Constitution.
Special Education spending needs to be re-prioritized. Spending our limited funding on children who will never achieve much more than flipping burgers is poor use of our money. We should be spending on future scientists, mathematicians, doctors and leaders.

 

[mdn2000]

The schools suck because of many problems, we have lower test scores and the highest illegal alien population of all the nations we are compared to, any connection?

 

[psikeyhackr]

I think more emphasis needs to be put on how to manage money, pay bills, live within your means etc. alot of these stupid fucking kids have no idea what their going to do after High School and they think working part time at Pizza Hut and partying with friends all weekend is the way to go.

Of course we have the problem of schools not being able to teach kids that Europeans didn't have the right to steal all of the land and make everyone else pay to live on it.

You can't talk about economics without talking about control of land.

The economic wargame is a continuation of the military wargame by other means.

psik

Huh? what does any of that have to do with teaching these kids how to fend for themselves? have you talked to a teenager lately? they have NO FUCKING CLUE how to live on their own or how to pay a fucking bill!

The entire real estate business relates to possession of land. Talking about economics and education while leaving that out is absurd.

Like comparing Romeo and Juliet to West Side Story taught me all that. 4 years of English Lit was mandatory but I learned more from science fiction that I selected on my own. Accounting with interest rates on loans would explain how it makes sense to avoid certain bills and pay off some at accelerated rates.

Credit card issuers target college students - Jul. 14, 2008

This is more than 50 years old and extremely modern.

Cost of Living, by Robert Sheckley
The Project Gutenberg eBook of Cost of Living, by Robert Sheckley

psik

PS - Blaming things on kids after so called adults have spent the last 50 years screwing things up is absurd. Whose fault is it that educators never mentioned mandatory accounting and economists haven't discussed planned obsolescence. The culture is built on hiding important information. But progressively more complex technology combined with increased population continuously increases complications so that strategy eventually becomes stupid and fatal.

 

[mdn2000]

We cannot even save the school books, I hear they already got sixteen pages devoted to Obama.

We must burn the entire public school system to the ground. I see not one thing that is worth saving. Given all the failures of the government lets start by being honest and stating the obvious, public schools are a reflection of the incompetence of those in the government. The only way to eliminate the host the parasites suck on is to eliminate the host.

No schools, no property tax, no property tax and you can survive in times like this without a job if your house is paid for.

Public schools suck because of those who take government jobs, mostly failures, as reflected in their work.

 

[High_Gravity]

Of course we have the problem of schools not being able to teach kids that Europeans didn't have the right to steal all of the land and make everyone else pay to live on it.

You can't talk about economics without talking about control of land.

The economic wargame is a continuation of the military wargame by other means.

psik

Huh? what does any of that have to do with teaching these kids how to fend for themselves? have you talked to a teenager lately? they have NO FUCKING CLUE how to live on their own or how to pay a fucking bill!

The entire real estate business relates to possession of land. Talking about economics and education while leaving that out is absurd.

Like comparing Romeo and Juliet to West Side Story taught me all that. 4 years of English Lit was mandatory but I learned more from science fiction that I selected on my own. Accounting with interest rates on loans would explain how it makes sense to avoid certain bills and pay off some at accelerated rates.

Credit card issuers target college students - Jul. 14, 2008

This is more than 50 years old and extremely modern.

Cost of Living, by Robert Sheckley
The Project Gutenberg eBook of Cost of Living, by Robert Sheckley

psik

PS - Blaming things on kids after so called adults have spent the last 50 years screwing things up is absurd. Whose fault is it that educators never mentioned mandatory accounting and economists haven't discussed planned obsolescence. The culture is built on hiding important information. But progressively more complex technology combined with increased population continuously increases complications so that strategy eventually becomes stupid and fatal.

Man my next door neighbors kids graduated from high school last summer and didn't grasp the concept of what a landlord was, and its scary because this kid is now an adult out of school. I'm not blaming this on the kids but they need to be taught the skills to be able to survive on their own, right now they are not getting that. Most of these kids couldn't balance a household budget if their lives depended on it.

 

[manifold]

I have some ideas but would like to hear what others think. Please, leave the partisan rhetoric out and offer the best ideas you have.

I've posted this before, and it's a bit radical, but I really think it would be a significant improvement on the current public school system. Here are the big points:

1) Reduce it from K-12 to K-8.

2) Everyone progresses at their own pace (and you have up until you are say 18 to 20 years old to graduate).

3) A sliding cash payout for early graduation, the earlier the greater.

I concede that society has an obligation to all it's members to educate individuals up to some minimum standard. I suggest that minimum is a comprehensive 8th grade level.