'How White People Got Made'

midcan5

liberal / progressive
Jun 4, 2007
12,740
3,513
260
America
'This is no accident, no coincidence, because the making of black and white was the making of the world we know now.'

The hard question for me is how and why white people allow themselves to be so obsessed with race to the point it can be used to manipulate them, control them, keep them unaware? Full disclosure. DNA says I am east and west European, northern areas, with a bit of Scot Wales and Irish thrown in. Jeez and I thought I was American. Maybe in a thousand years we'll have American DNA. Race is a recent trait in the long history of evolution. But humans make distinctions based on anything and the anythings control them.

It turns out white people are their own worst enemy. Harsh statement, I don't think so for as they gleefully cheer Trump's often racist remarks the rich grow in power and control. You doubt? Consider his only accomplishments, more money for the wealthy, himself included, less regulation for the corporations, and judges who side with both. See any 'great' healthcare or 'cheap medicine? Meanwhile many of the working class cheer and relish a vote to put another dagger in themselves.

Trump rallies are the most interesting aspect of white self immolation, Trump lies, plays himself up, plays up the economy, lies some more, makes stuff up, promises greatness, they cheer, he name calls, they cheer, he points fingers. Do they see? Do they hear? He goes golfing. They get hats. Is this simply hero worship, their latest savior? The show is about him, he cares nada for them given his past history, but they play along, clapping, cheering, and laughing. They could be automatons. What a great release, a tribal dance, a show for a man who is hardly an exemplar of American values.

'Thereā€™s a perception that whiteness is working for white people. Itā€™s not. Whiteness is one of the biggest and most long-running scams ever perpetrated.'

Reading assignment and quotes are from: How White People Got Made

"The great thing about the divide-and-conquer of creating white-skin privilege is that you donā€™t have to give people thusly bought off anything more, and American power structures didnā€™t. In places with black slavery, the whites suffered terribly." (See too Isenberg's history and Lopez's)

"There is not one gene, trait, or characteristic that distinguishes all members of one race from all members of another. We can map any number of traits and none would match our idea of race. This is because modern humans haven't been around long enough to evolve into different subspecies and we've always moved, mated, and mixed our genes. Beneath the skin, we are one of the most genetically similar of all species." RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS

"In the era of Donald Trump, many lower- and middle-class white Americans are drawn to politicians who pledge to make their lives great again. But as Dying of Whiteness shows, the policies that result actually place white Americans at ever-greater risk of sickness and death.'
Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment Is Killing America's Heartland by Jonathan M. Metzl

"I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain." James A. Baldwin

Further study:

'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Isenberg
White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America by Nancy Isenberg

'Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class' by Ian Haney LĆ³pez

Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class by Ian F. Haney-Lopez

*****
"White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac." James Baldwin

"And then we got down one day to the point- that was the second or third day - to talk about where they lived, and how much they were earning. And when those brothers told me what they were earning, I said, ā€œNow, you know what? You ought to be marching with us. Youā€™re just as poor as Negroes.ā€ And I said, ā€œYou are put in the position of supporting your oppressor, because, through prejudice and blindness, you fail to see that the same forces that oppress Negroes in American society oppress poor white people. And all you are living on is the satisfaction of your skin being white, and the drum major instinct of thinking that you are somebody big because you are white. And youā€™re so poor you canā€™t send your children to school. You ought to be out here marching with every one of us every time we have a march....Now thatā€™s a fact. That the poor white has been put into this position, where through blindness and prejudice, he is forced to support his oppressors. And the only thing he has going for him is the false feeling that heā€™s superior because his skin is whiteā€”and canā€™t hardly eat and make his ends meet week in and week out.ā€ Martin Luther King
I Know Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalismā€”funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan by Kim Phillips-Fein
 
but Trump has never said anything racist...you are out of your mind
WTF did I just ''try'' to read??? !!!!!??????!!!!!!
you people make up the most INSANE CRAP
period
 
TL;DR

OP is obsessed with race.

Did you need someone to help you with the big words?
it's insane dumbshit--makes no sense --plain and simple
there is no understanding any of it because it doesn't make sense
White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac." James Baldwin
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
but blacks graduate at lower levels---so how can this be???!!!!
 
but Trump has never said anything racist...you are out of your mind
WTF did I just ''try'' to read??? !!!!!??????!!!!!!
you people make up the most INSANE CRAP
period

Try to read? Yes, I'm sure that was an effort for you.

Okay, looking at the OP, he makes some valid point.

The white middle class was largely the result of progressive policies, including unions, labor laws, and middle class entitlements.

The reaction of the wealthy was to use the GOP to play on racism to push back on these programs and policies...

The ironic thing is that there is legitimate greivences out there in the white working class. They see that they don't have the affluence their parents and grandparents had, even with more education. The massive misdirection was how the one percent got them to shift their ire towards people of color, who are often less well off than they are.
 
but Trump has never said anything racist...you are out of your mind
WTF did I just ''try'' to read??? !!!!!??????!!!!!!
you people make up the most INSANE CRAP
period

Try to read? Yes, I'm sure that was an effort for you.

Okay, looking at the OP, he makes some valid point.

The white middle class was largely the result of progressive policies, including unions, labor laws, and middle class entitlements.

The reaction of the wealthy was to use the GOP to play on racism to push back on these programs and policies...

The ironic thing is that there is legitimate greivences out there in the white working class. They see that they don't have the affluence their parents and grandparents had, even with more education. The massive misdirection was how the one percent got them to shift their ire towards people of color, who are often less well off than they are.
it's all babble crap with NO proof as usual
 
'This is no accident, no coincidence, because the making of black and white was the making of the world we know now.'

The hard question for me is how and why white people allow themselves to be so obsessed with race to the point it can be used to manipulate them, control them, keep them unaware? Full disclosure. DNA says I am east and west European, northern areas, with a bit of Scot Wales and Irish thrown in. Jeez and I thought I was American. Maybe in a thousand years we'll have American DNA. Race is a recent trait in the long history of evolution. But humans make distinctions based on anything and the anythings control them.

It turns out white people are their own worst enemy. Harsh statement, I don't think so for as they gleefully cheer Trump's often racist remarks the rich grow in power and control. You doubt? Consider his only accomplishments, more money for the wealthy, himself included, less regulation for the corporations, and judges who side with both. See any 'great' healthcare or 'cheap medicine? Meanwhile many of the working class cheer and relish a vote to put another dagger in themselves.

Trump rallies are the most interesting aspect of white self immolation, Trump lies, plays himself up, plays up the economy, lies some more, makes stuff up, promises greatness, they cheer, he name calls, they cheer, he points fingers. Do they see? Do they hear? He goes golfing. They get hats. Is this simply hero worship, their latest savior? The show is about him, he cares nada for them given his past history, but they play along, clapping, cheering, and laughing. They could be automatons. What a great release, a tribal dance, a show for a man who is hardly an exemplar of American values.

'Thereā€™s a perception that whiteness is working for white people. Itā€™s not. Whiteness is one of the biggest and most long-running scams ever perpetrated.'

Reading assignment and quotes are from: How White People Got Made

"The great thing about the divide-and-conquer of creating white-skin privilege is that you donā€™t have to give people thusly bought off anything more, and American power structures didnā€™t. In places with black slavery, the whites suffered terribly." (See too Isenberg's history and Lopez's)

"There is not one gene, trait, or characteristic that distinguishes all members of one race from all members of another. We can map any number of traits and none would match our idea of race. This is because modern humans haven't been around long enough to evolve into different subspecies and we've always moved, mated, and mixed our genes. Beneath the skin, we are one of the most genetically similar of all species." RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS

"In the era of Donald Trump, many lower- and middle-class white Americans are drawn to politicians who pledge to make their lives great again. But as Dying of Whiteness shows, the policies that result actually place white Americans at ever-greater risk of sickness and death.'
Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment Is Killing America's Heartland by Jonathan M. Metzl

"I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain." James A. Baldwin

Further study:

'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Isenberg
White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America by Nancy Isenberg

'Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class' by Ian Haney LĆ³pez

Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class by Ian F. Haney-Lopez

*****
"White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac." James Baldwin

"And then we got down one day to the point- that was the second or third day - to talk about where they lived, and how much they were earning. And when those brothers told me what they were earning, I said, ā€œNow, you know what? You ought to be marching with us. Youā€™re just as poor as Negroes.ā€ And I said, ā€œYou are put in the position of supporting your oppressor, because, through prejudice and blindness, you fail to see that the same forces that oppress Negroes in American society oppress poor white people. And all you are living on is the satisfaction of your skin being white, and the drum major instinct of thinking that you are somebody big because you are white. And youā€™re so poor you canā€™t send your children to school. You ought to be out here marching with every one of us every time we have a march....Now thatā€™s a fact. That the poor white has been put into this position, where through blindness and prejudice, he is forced to support his oppressors. And the only thing he has going for him is the false feeling that heā€™s superior because his skin is whiteā€”and canā€™t hardly eat and make his ends meet week in and week out.ā€ Martin Luther King
I Know Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalismā€”funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan by Kim Phillips-Fein
Moronic OP. Ignores scores of fabulous accomplishments by Trump, on behalf of poor and working class Americans of all races. Ignores 54 years of Affirmative Action BLACK PRIVILEGE. Presents no evidence of Trump being or saying anything "racist".

Just more leftist blabbermouthing. Lots of form, zero content.

Has all the earmarks of left OMISSION media brainwashing, run amok.
 
'This is no accident, no coincidence, because the making of black and white was the making of the world we know now.'

The hard question for me is how and why white people allow themselves to be so obsessed with race to the point it can be used to manipulate them, control them, keep them unaware? Full disclosure. DNA says I am east and west European, northern areas, with a bit of Scot Wales and Irish thrown in. Jeez and I thought I was American. Maybe in a thousand years we'll have American DNA. Race is a recent trait in the long history of evolution. But humans make distinctions based on anything and the anythings control them.

It turns out white people are their own worst enemy. Harsh statement, I don't think so for as they gleefully cheer Trump's often racist remarks the rich grow in power and control. You doubt? Consider his only accomplishments, more money for the wealthy, himself included, less regulation for the corporations, and judges who side with both. See any 'great' healthcare or 'cheap medicine? Meanwhile many of the working class cheer and relish a vote to put another dagger in themselves.

Trump rallies are the most interesting aspect of white self immolation, Trump lies, plays himself up, plays up the economy, lies some more, makes stuff up, promises greatness, they cheer, he name calls, they cheer, he points fingers. Do they see? Do they hear? He goes golfing. They get hats. Is this simply hero worship, their latest savior? The show is about him, he cares nada for them given his past history, but they play along, clapping, cheering, and laughing. They could be automatons. What a great release, a tribal dance, a show for a man who is hardly an exemplar of American values.

'Thereā€™s a perception that whiteness is working for white people. Itā€™s not. Whiteness is one of the biggest and most long-running scams ever perpetrated.'

Reading assignment and quotes are from: How White People Got Made

"The great thing about the divide-and-conquer of creating white-skin privilege is that you donā€™t have to give people thusly bought off anything more, and American power structures didnā€™t. In places with black slavery, the whites suffered terribly." (See too Isenberg's history and Lopez's)

"There is not one gene, trait, or characteristic that distinguishes all members of one race from all members of another. We can map any number of traits and none would match our idea of race. This is because modern humans haven't been around long enough to evolve into different subspecies and we've always moved, mated, and mixed our genes. Beneath the skin, we are one of the most genetically similar of all species." RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS

"In the era of Donald Trump, many lower- and middle-class white Americans are drawn to politicians who pledge to make their lives great again. But as Dying of Whiteness shows, the policies that result actually place white Americans at ever-greater risk of sickness and death.'
Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment Is Killing America's Heartland by Jonathan M. Metzl

"I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain." James A. Baldwin

Further study:

'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Isenberg
White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America by Nancy Isenberg

'Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class' by Ian Haney LĆ³pez

Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class by Ian F. Haney-Lopez

*****
"White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac." James Baldwin

"And then we got down one day to the point- that was the second or third day - to talk about where they lived, and how much they were earning. And when those brothers told me what they were earning, I said, ā€œNow, you know what? You ought to be marching with us. Youā€™re just as poor as Negroes.ā€ And I said, ā€œYou are put in the position of supporting your oppressor, because, through prejudice and blindness, you fail to see that the same forces that oppress Negroes in American society oppress poor white people. And all you are living on is the satisfaction of your skin being white, and the drum major instinct of thinking that you are somebody big because you are white. And youā€™re so poor you canā€™t send your children to school. You ought to be out here marching with every one of us every time we have a march....Now thatā€™s a fact. That the poor white has been put into this position, where through blindness and prejudice, he is forced to support his oppressors. And the only thing he has going for him is the false feeling that heā€™s superior because his skin is whiteā€”and canā€™t hardly eat and make his ends meet week in and week out.ā€ Martin Luther King
I Know Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalismā€”funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan by Kim Phillips-Fein
When did trump bring up race? I think your problem is a lack of education
 
but Trump has never said anything racist...you are out of your mind
WTF did I just ''try'' to read??? !!!!!??????!!!!!!
you people make up the most INSANE CRAP
period
This is the result of people restricting themselves to leftist OMISSION media, getting twisted spun "news", and being deprived of mountains of information, that these media outlets will not allow their dupes to receive.
 
midcan is a multiple forum online troll POS.

Moreso than Margot, even, and that's saying something.

Oh look! Same fucking thread:

APP - 'How White People Got Made'

Apparently my IP is banned at some. :auiqs.jpg:

The list would be longer...but they banned my whole IP range. :abgg2q.jpg:

Snowflakery at its finest!
 
Last edited:
but Trump has never said anything racist...you are out of your mind
WTF did I just ''try'' to read??? !!!!!??????!!!!!!
you people make up the most INSANE CRAP
period

Try to read? Yes, I'm sure that was an effort for you.

Okay, looking at the OP, he makes some valid point.

The white middle class was largely the result of progressive policies, including unions, labor laws, and middle class entitlements.

The reaction of the wealthy was to use the GOP to play on racism to push back on these programs and policies...

The ironic thing is that there is legitimate greivences out there in the white working class. They see that they don't have the affluence their parents and grandparents had, even with more education. The massive misdirection was how the one percent got them to shift their ire towards people of color, who are often less well off than they are.
murder rates/crimes rates/graduation rates--those are all facts---the OP is not---it's crap
 
61E65EFE-315C-4AD6-9092-6F14AE554DCD.jpeg
but Trump has never said anything racist...you are out of your mind
WTF did I just ''try'' to read??? !!!!!??????!!!!!!
you people make up the most INSANE CRAP
period

Try to read? Yes, I'm sure that was an effort for you.

Okay, looking at the OP, he makes some valid point.

The white middle class was largely the result of progressive policies, including unions, labor laws, and middle class entitlements.

The reaction of the wealthy was to use the GOP to play on racism to push back on these programs and policies...

The ironic thing is that there is legitimate greivences out there in the white working class. They see that they don't have the affluence their parents and grandparents had, even with more education. The massive misdirection was how the one percent got them to shift their ire towards people of color, who are often less well off than they are.
Does this look like a progressive movement you dumb arse
 
I get it. Too bad a lot of folks won't read the OP because TL;DR. Such nonsense.

I especially like
"There is not one gene, trait, or characteristic that distinguishes all members of one race from all members of another. We can map any number of traits and none would match our idea of race. This is because modern humans haven't been around long enough to evolve into different subspecies and we've always moved, mated, and mixed our genes. Beneath the skin, we are one of the most genetically similar of all species." RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS" I'll be checking this out further. Thank you OP.
 
'This is no accident, no coincidence, because the making of black and white was the making of the world we know now.'

The hard question for me is how and why white people allow themselves to be so obsessed with race to the point it can be used to manipulate them, control them, keep them unaware? Full disclosure. DNA says I am east and west European, northern areas, with a bit of Scot Wales and Irish thrown in. Jeez and I thought I was American. Maybe in a thousand years we'll have American DNA. Race is a recent trait in the long history of evolution. But humans make distinctions based on anything and the anythings control them.

It turns out white people are their own worst enemy. Harsh statement, I don't think so for as they gleefully cheer Trump's often racist remarks the rich grow in power and control. You doubt? Consider his only accomplishments, more money for the wealthy, himself included, less regulation for the corporations, and judges who side with both. See any 'great' healthcare or 'cheap medicine? Meanwhile many of the working class cheer and relish a vote to put another dagger in themselves.

Trump rallies are the most interesting aspect of white self immolation, Trump lies, plays himself up, plays up the economy, lies some more, makes stuff up, promises greatness, they cheer, he name calls, they cheer, he points fingers. Do they see? Do they hear? He goes golfing. They get hats. Is this simply hero worship, their latest savior? The show is about him, he cares nada for them given his past history, but they play along, clapping, cheering, and laughing. They could be automatons. What a great release, a tribal dance, a show for a man who is hardly an exemplar of American values.

'Thereā€™s a perception that whiteness is working for white people. Itā€™s not. Whiteness is one of the biggest and most long-running scams ever perpetrated.'

Reading assignment and quotes are from: How White People Got Made

"The great thing about the divide-and-conquer of creating white-skin privilege is that you donā€™t have to give people thusly bought off anything more, and American power structures didnā€™t. In places with black slavery, the whites suffered terribly." (See too Isenberg's history and Lopez's)

"There is not one gene, trait, or characteristic that distinguishes all members of one race from all members of another. We can map any number of traits and none would match our idea of race. This is because modern humans haven't been around long enough to evolve into different subspecies and we've always moved, mated, and mixed our genes. Beneath the skin, we are one of the most genetically similar of all species." RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS

"In the era of Donald Trump, many lower- and middle-class white Americans are drawn to politicians who pledge to make their lives great again. But as Dying of Whiteness shows, the policies that result actually place white Americans at ever-greater risk of sickness and death.'
Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment Is Killing America's Heartland by Jonathan M. Metzl

"I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain." James A. Baldwin

Further study:

'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Isenberg
White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America by Nancy Isenberg

'Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class' by Ian Haney LĆ³pez

Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class by Ian F. Haney-Lopez

*****
"White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac." James Baldwin

"And then we got down one day to the point- that was the second or third day - to talk about where they lived, and how much they were earning. And when those brothers told me what they were earning, I said, ā€œNow, you know what? You ought to be marching with us. Youā€™re just as poor as Negroes.ā€ And I said, ā€œYou are put in the position of supporting your oppressor, because, through prejudice and blindness, you fail to see that the same forces that oppress Negroes in American society oppress poor white people. And all you are living on is the satisfaction of your skin being white, and the drum major instinct of thinking that you are somebody big because you are white. And youā€™re so poor you canā€™t send your children to school. You ought to be out here marching with every one of us every time we have a march....Now thatā€™s a fact. That the poor white has been put into this position, where through blindness and prejudice, he is forced to support his oppressors. And the only thing he has going for him is the false feeling that heā€™s superior because his skin is whiteā€”and canā€™t hardly eat and make his ends meet week in and week out.ā€ Martin Luther King
I Know Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalismā€”funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan by Kim Phillips-Fein


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