How SMART is your region?

[Skull Pilot]

You couldn't pay me to commute by train aka cattle car.

I'd rather drive.

You must live where there's no traffic. Try commuting in Houston these days. Third largest city in the U.S. and no mass transit. Just miles of clogged freeways.

I have to confess my daily commute lasts about 30 seconds. My coffee doesn't even cool off.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah, driving a car is fine is you don't live here:

"""Among the worst offenders:
–The Los Angeles US-101 and I-405 Interchange, which results in 27 million plus hours of delay each year;
–Houston I-610 and I-10 Interchange, which costs 25 million hours plus hours of delay;
–Chicago I-90/94 and I-290 Interchange. Known as the Circle Interchange, it leads to 25 million hours of delay per year;
–Phoenix I-10 and SR-51 Interchange causes 22 million delay-hours annually; and
–Los Angeles I-405 and I-10 Interchange. This San Diego Freeway exchange has causes 22 million hours of annual delay."""

America s Worst Traffic Traps - Forbes

The only job I would take in any of those cities would have to pay enough for me to fly in by helicopter every day.

 

[westwall]

How much of a subsidy is required to keep it going? Has BART ever turned a profit? Why are BART employees so grossly overpaid? Why are BART cops so damned bad? Has a BART cop ever done a Felony Stop? Well, I know one Sgt. who has, because my friends on the Richmond PD force MADE him do one.

BART has never turned a profit but thats OK. The point is that without BART commutes that are already bad would be complete gridlock.
Bay Area Rapid Transit - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Only because the Bay area refuses to do highway improvements. There are STILL freeways that have not been rebuilt after the Loma Prieta earthquake of 1989. That was a perfect opportunity to go in an do major updates and reconstruction that would have helped the commuters AND laid the groundwork for an efficient public transport system.

But no, the asshats in charge and their environmental whacko string pullers had to go and screw that up. Once again demonstrating that they really don't care about the small guy, they care about power and that is all they care about.

If you truly wanted to get rid of gridlock the only way to do that is allow the vast majority of people who work in the paper pushing enterprises to telecommute. THAT would have a significant affect on all the commutes in the world, and contribute to employee well being and quality of life.

Um, which freeways have been neglected, and which have not been rebuilt?

I live here, and call bullshit. Your first paragraph is all opinion sans facts. I can post photos of on going and completed projects related to the quake of '89 and funding via the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.

Traffic is a nightmare, but not for the reasons expressed. The big problem is every county has their own public transportation system and navigating form one to another can be a headache.

Planing is in the works to reestablish a ferry system, expand BART to the east in Contra Costa County and South to San Jose; Capitol Corrider Train already moves commuters from the East Bay Counties to Sacramento Co and beyond with convenient transfers to BART, and makes convenient transfers from BART to SFO and CAL train to Santa Clara County South, the ACE Train transports commuters from San Joaquin County to San Jose (Santa Clara County) with transfers local public transportation up through Santa Clara County to San Mateo County and connecting to BART at Millbrae.

I can walk one block from my home, get a bus to BART and from there get to anywhere in the world.

What, you forget the Embarcadero? The Cypress was rebuilt as a single level instead of the double decker it used to be.. Or how about I-480? Remember that one? Demolished in 1991 but not rebuilt.

Call bullshit all you want, but it's you who are full of shit buckwheat.

The Embaradero Freeway was not only an eyesore, but one which puts lots of traffic onto surface streets. I'm familiar with 280, 380 580, 680, 780 & 880 - I can't recall a 480 but I'll look it up. But back to the Embarcadero Freeway, it has been replaced by the F-Street Car line, vintage street cars purchased from cities across the nation, which ties into other lines and BART. The East Bay Terminal has been demolished to make way for CAL train to enter the downtown and connect with a new subway slated to go underground from Second and Mission to Fisherman's Wharf via Chinatown and North Beach.

See 480 here below, no wonder I never heard of it, natives referred to it as the Embarcadero Freeway.

California State Route 480 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

There are cities that have embraced this kind of mass transit and they've done well but really, I'm afraid that way too many Americans are just plain too dumb to see train travel for what it is. There will always be some ignorant fool who doesn't want to sit back and enjoy the ride.

Somehow, Americans think driving a car is macho or manly or in control or something. Fact is, its the other way around. People who drive are being controlled and can't think for themselves. And they're proud of that.

I loved taking the high speed train from the south of France, all the way north to Brussels. It took less than a day, was comfortable and we loved talking to other passengers, reading, eating and just watching the scenery go by.

Some US cities have Zip cars that you pick up almost anywhere, use it very cheaply and then drop it off at a very convenient spot. Same with bycycles or the little two wheeled scooters.

Why drive if you don't have to? Save money and aggravation.

 

[Wry Catcher]

BART has never turned a profit but thats OK. The point is that without BART commutes that are already bad would be complete gridlock.
Bay Area Rapid Transit - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Only because the Bay area refuses to do highway improvements. There are STILL freeways that have not been rebuilt after the Loma Prieta earthquake of 1989. That was a perfect opportunity to go in an do major updates and reconstruction that would have helped the commuters AND laid the groundwork for an efficient public transport system.

But no, the asshats in charge and their environmental whacko string pullers had to go and screw that up. Once again demonstrating that they really don't care about the small guy, they care about power and that is all they care about.

If you truly wanted to get rid of gridlock the only way to do that is allow the vast majority of people who work in the paper pushing enterprises to telecommute. THAT would have a significant affect on all the commutes in the world, and contribute to employee well being and quality of life.

Um, which freeways have been neglected, and which have not been rebuilt?

I live here, and call bullshit. Your first paragraph is all opinion sans facts. I can post photos of on going and completed projects related to the quake of '89 and funding via the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.

Traffic is a nightmare, but not for the reasons expressed. The big problem is every county has their own public transportation system and navigating form one to another can be a headache.

Planing is in the works to reestablish a ferry system, expand BART to the east in Contra Costa County and South to San Jose; Capitol Corrider Train already moves commuters from the East Bay Counties to Sacramento Co and beyond with convenient transfers to BART, and makes convenient transfers from BART to SFO and CAL train to Santa Clara County South, the ACE Train transports commuters from San Joaquin County to San Jose (Santa Clara County) with transfers local public transportation up through Santa Clara County to San Mateo County and connecting to BART at Millbrae.

I can walk one block from my home, get a bus to BART and from there get to anywhere in the world.

What, you forget the Embarcadero? The Cypress was rebuilt as a single level instead of the double decker it used to be.. Or how about I-480? Remember that one? Demolished in 1991 but not rebuilt.

Call bullshit all you want, but it's you who are full of shit buckwheat.

The Embaradero Freeway was not only an eyesore, but one which puts lots of traffic onto surface streets. I'm familiar with 280, 380 580, 680, 780 & 880 - I can't recall a 480 but I'll look it up. But back to the Embarcadero Freeway, it has been replaced by the F-Street Car line, vintage street cars purchased from cities across the nation, which ties into other lines and BART. The East Bay Terminal has been demolished to make way for CAL train to enter the downtown and connect with a new subway slated to go underground from Second and Mission to Fisherman's Wharf via Chinatown and North Beach.

See 480 here below, no wonder I never heard of it, natives referred to it as the Embarcadero Freeway.

California State Route 480 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

I-480 was part of an effort to connect the 101 via freeway from it's Bayshore section to the GG Bridge and counties to the north. It was a bad idea and an expensive one, which made it both a political and fiscal impossibility.

Doyle Drive, coming from the GG Bridge into the Marina is currently under major construction and will be safer, but it will still dump cars onto Van Ness Ave who want to continue south to Silicon Valley, San Jose and SoCAL; where it splits onto Park Presidio and then 19th Ave, for those wanting to go to SFSU or connect to 280 will remain a problem for a long long time.

Your point was irrelevant to the discussion and thus dishonest; supported by a very weak personal attack verifies what I already knew about you. Why not try to be honest?

 

[Asclepias]

There are cities that have embraced this kind of mass transit and they've done well but really, I'm afraid that way too many Americans are just plain too dumb to see train travel for what it is. There will always be some ignorant fool who doesn't want to sit back and enjoy the ride.

Somehow, Americans think driving a car is macho or manly or in control or something. Fact is, its the other way around. People who drive are being controlled and can't think for themselves. And they're proud of that.

I loved taking the high speed train from the south of France, all the way north to Brussels. It took less than a day, was comfortable and we loved talking to other passengers, reading, eating and just watching the scenery go by.

Some US cities have Zip cars that you pick up almost anywhere, use it very cheaply and then drop it off at a very convenient spot. Same with bycycles or the little two wheeled scooters.

Why drive if you don't have to? Save money and aggravation.

I agree. Its about control. Americans are addicted to control. Thats why Amtrak is the last thing people consider when traveling nationally.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There are cities that have embraced this kind of mass transit and they've done well but really, I'm afraid that way too many Americans are just plain too dumb to see train travel for what it is. There will always be some ignorant fool who doesn't want to sit back and enjoy the ride.

Somehow, Americans think driving a car is macho or manly or in control or something. Fact is, its the other way around. People who drive are being controlled and can't think for themselves. And they're proud of that.

I loved taking the high speed train from the south of France, all the way north to Brussels. It took less than a day, was comfortable and we loved talking to other passengers, reading, eating and just watching the scenery go by.

Some US cities have Zip cars that you pick up almost anywhere, use it very cheaply and then drop it off at a very convenient spot. Same with bycycles or the little two wheeled scooters.

Why drive if you don't have to? Save money and aggravation.

I agree. Its about control. Americans are addicted to control. Thats why Amtrak is the last thing people consider when traveling nationally.

I'd like to take Amtrak, but it's so damn expensive, and when one has ridden the trains in Europe, it's performance, cleanliness and routes are not worth the cost.

 

[Asclepias]

There are cities that have embraced this kind of mass transit and they've done well but really, I'm afraid that way too many Americans are just plain too dumb to see train travel for what it is. There will always be some ignorant fool who doesn't want to sit back and enjoy the ride.

Somehow, Americans think driving a car is macho or manly or in control or something. Fact is, its the other way around. People who drive are being controlled and can't think for themselves. And they're proud of that.

I loved taking the high speed train from the south of France, all the way north to Brussels. It took less than a day, was comfortable and we loved talking to other passengers, reading, eating and just watching the scenery go by.

Some US cities have Zip cars that you pick up almost anywhere, use it very cheaply and then drop it off at a very convenient spot. Same with bycycles or the little two wheeled scooters.

Why drive if you don't have to? Save money and aggravation.

I agree. Its about control. Americans are addicted to control. Thats why Amtrak is the last thing people consider when traveling nationally.

I'd like to take Amtrak, but it's so damn expensive, and when one has ridden the trains in Europe, it's performance, cleanliness and routes are not worth the cost.

Blame our government. Amtrak owns less than 2% of the tracks it runs over and most of those are in the NEC by DC. The rest are owned by private freight companies. They supposedly get priority but any fines are laughable when the trade off is million or billion dollar cargo being shipped by the freights.

 

[Dana7360]

A new rail system is to open next year, making the commute from northern counties into San Francisco and even (silicon valley) faster, safer, cheaper and cleaner for the environment.

See the future, and are your community leaders looking ahead, or protecting the status quo?

Smart Train North Bay Sonoma Marin SMART Sonoma Marin Area Rail Transit Passenger train and multi-use pathway project

There has been a lot of rail tracks put in around here since 2009. Especially in the city. The whole downtown area and hills around it have been getting rails. There have been rail cars downtown for several years now. There will be more in the future. We also have light trains from the suburbs into downtown. Which has really helped with the traffic on the freeways. Unfortunately they only run on the weekdays. They don't run on the weekends which I think is stupid.

We don't have any plans for a long light rail system. Yet. I'm sure that we will get one soon. I would love to be able to get on a fast train that takes me to California in less time it takes to drive.

 

[Dana7360]

Let's see how it fares financially before we call it a success, OK.

It may be cheaper for the folks using it, but even those who don't will be paying for it.

I drive a Prius. My hubby drives a Chevy Volt.

I haven't driven a regular gas car since the bush boy years. With the exceptions of when I travel and have to rent a car.

When I do rent a car I notice how down right BAD they smell. Even the Buick Regal. Any gas car. They smell very bad and I didn't realize it until I stopped driving one.

The light rail system won't do that and it will take people from Southern California up to San Francisco. Which is usually around at least a 6 hour drive. That is if you don't run into traffic and don't make any stops. There are hundreds of thousands of people who don't want to be crammed into an airplane like sardines and prefer to either drive or take the train.

This new train will get people north faster and without as much pollution.

What's not to like?

 

[Ernie S.]

Let's see how it fares financially before we call it a success, OK.

It may be cheaper for the folks using it, but even those who don't will be paying for it.

I drive a Prius. My hubby drives a Chevy Volt.

I haven't driven a regular gas car since the bush boy years. With the exceptions of when I travel and have to rent a car.

When I do rent a car I notice how down right BAD they smell. Even the Buick Regal. Any gas car. They smell very bad and I didn't realize it until I stopped driving one.

The light rail system won't do that and it will take people from Southern California up to San Francisco. Which is usually around at least a 6 hour drive. That is if you don't run into traffic and don't make any stops. There are hundreds of thousands of people who don't want to be crammed into an airplane like sardines and prefer to either drive or take the train.

This new train will get people north faster and without as much pollution.

What's not to like?

What's not to like is that the peope that ride this train will be subsidized by millions of people who don't.

And here I thought you were pro-choice.....

I choose NOT to subsidize people getting a cheap ride to work, OK?

 

[westwall]

Only because the Bay area refuses to do highway improvements. There are STILL freeways that have not been rebuilt after the Loma Prieta earthquake of 1989. That was a perfect opportunity to go in an do major updates and reconstruction that would have helped the commuters AND laid the groundwork for an efficient public transport system.

But no, the asshats in charge and their environmental whacko string pullers had to go and screw that up. Once again demonstrating that they really don't care about the small guy, they care about power and that is all they care about.

If you truly wanted to get rid of gridlock the only way to do that is allow the vast majority of people who work in the paper pushing enterprises to telecommute. THAT would have a significant affect on all the commutes in the world, and contribute to employee well being and quality of life.

Um, which freeways have been neglected, and which have not been rebuilt?

I live here, and call bullshit. Your first paragraph is all opinion sans facts. I can post photos of on going and completed projects related to the quake of '89 and funding via the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.

Traffic is a nightmare, but not for the reasons expressed. The big problem is every county has their own public transportation system and navigating form one to another can be a headache.

Planing is in the works to reestablish a ferry system, expand BART to the east in Contra Costa County and South to San Jose; Capitol Corrider Train already moves commuters from the East Bay Counties to Sacramento Co and beyond with convenient transfers to BART, and makes convenient transfers from BART to SFO and CAL train to Santa Clara County South, the ACE Train transports commuters from San Joaquin County to San Jose (Santa Clara County) with transfers local public transportation up through Santa Clara County to San Mateo County and connecting to BART at Millbrae.

I can walk one block from my home, get a bus to BART and from there get to anywhere in the world.

What, you forget the Embarcadero? The Cypress was rebuilt as a single level instead of the double decker it used to be.. Or how about I-480? Remember that one? Demolished in 1991 but not rebuilt.

Call bullshit all you want, but it's you who are full of shit buckwheat.

The Embaradero Freeway was not only an eyesore, but one which puts lots of traffic onto surface streets. I'm familiar with 280, 380 580, 680, 780 & 880 - I can't recall a 480 but I'll look it up. But back to the Embarcadero Freeway, it has been replaced by the F-Street Car line, vintage street cars purchased from cities across the nation, which ties into other lines and BART. The East Bay Terminal has been demolished to make way for CAL train to enter the downtown and connect with a new subway slated to go underground from Second and Mission to Fisherman's Wharf via Chinatown and North Beach.

See 480 here below, no wonder I never heard of it, natives referred to it as the Embarcadero Freeway.

California State Route 480 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

I-480 was part of an effort to connect the 101 via freeway from it's Bayshore section to the GG Bridge and counties to the north. It was a bad idea and an expensive one, which made it both a political and fiscal impossibility.

Doyle Drive, coming from the GG Bridge into the Marina is currently under major construction and will be safer, but it will still dump cars onto Van Ness Ave who want to continue south to Silicon Valley, San Jose and SoCAL; where it splits onto Park Presidio and then 19th Ave, for those wanting to go to SFSU or connect to 280 will remain a problem for a long long time.

Your point was irrelevant to the discussion and thus dishonest; supported by a very weak personal attack verifies what I already knew about you. Why not try to be honest?

No, my point was, and is, very relevant to the discussion. The city fathers had a blank slate to start with and they dithered and hymmed and hawed and still, 26 YEARS after the earthquake, the Bay area has fewer freeways than prior to the event.

Those are called facts. Your opinion about whether the I-480 was a worthwhile project is cute, but at the time, prior to the quake, it was a needed and funded project. Then the quake occurred and all bets were off.
Funny, I don't live in the area and I seem to know more than you do about the freeway systems, how is that possible?

 

[westwall]

There are cities that have embraced this kind of mass transit and they've done well but really, I'm afraid that way too many Americans are just plain too dumb to see train travel for what it is. There will always be some ignorant fool who doesn't want to sit back and enjoy the ride.

Somehow, Americans think driving a car is macho or manly or in control or something. Fact is, its the other way around. People who drive are being controlled and can't think for themselves. And they're proud of that.

I loved taking the high speed train from the south of France, all the way north to Brussels. It took less than a day, was comfortable and we loved talking to other passengers, reading, eating and just watching the scenery go by.

Some US cities have Zip cars that you pick up almost anywhere, use it very cheaply and then drop it off at a very convenient spot. Same with bycycles or the little two wheeled scooters.

Why drive if you don't have to? Save money and aggravation.

I agree. Its about control. Americans are addicted to control. Thats why Amtrak is the last thing people consider when traveling nationally.

I'd like to take Amtrak, but it's so damn expensive, and when one has ridden the trains in Europe, it's performance, cleanliness and routes are not worth the cost.

Wow, you mean like most government run entities?

 

[westwall]

Let's see how it fares financially before we call it a success, OK.

It may be cheaper for the folks using it, but even those who don't will be paying for it.

I drive a Prius. My hubby drives a Chevy Volt.

I haven't driven a regular gas car since the bush boy years. With the exceptions of when I travel and have to rent a car.

When I do rent a car I notice how down right BAD they smell. Even the Buick Regal. Any gas car. They smell very bad and I didn't realize it until I stopped driving one.

The light rail system won't do that and it will take people from Southern California up to San Francisco. Which is usually around at least a 6 hour drive. That is if you don't run into traffic and don't make any stops. There are hundreds of thousands of people who don't want to be crammed into an airplane like sardines and prefer to either drive or take the train.

This new train will get people north faster and without as much pollution.

What's not to like?

You do realize a Prius has a gas engine and derives most of its motive power from that source...right?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Um, which freeways have been neglected, and which have not been rebuilt?

I live here, and call bullshit. Your first paragraph is all opinion sans facts. I can post photos of on going and completed projects related to the quake of '89 and funding via the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.

Traffic is a nightmare, but not for the reasons expressed. The big problem is every county has their own public transportation system and navigating form one to another can be a headache.

Planing is in the works to reestablish a ferry system, expand BART to the east in Contra Costa County and South to San Jose; Capitol Corrider Train already moves commuters from the East Bay Counties to Sacramento Co and beyond with convenient transfers to BART, and makes convenient transfers from BART to SFO and CAL train to Santa Clara County South, the ACE Train transports commuters from San Joaquin County to San Jose (Santa Clara County) with transfers local public transportation up through Santa Clara County to San Mateo County and connecting to BART at Millbrae.

I can walk one block from my home, get a bus to BART and from there get to anywhere in the world.

What, you forget the Embarcadero? The Cypress was rebuilt as a single level instead of the double decker it used to be.. Or how about I-480? Remember that one? Demolished in 1991 but not rebuilt.

Call bullshit all you want, but it's you who are full of shit buckwheat.

The Embaradero Freeway was not only an eyesore, but one which puts lots of traffic onto surface streets. I'm familiar with 280, 380 580, 680, 780 & 880 - I can't recall a 480 but I'll look it up. But back to the Embarcadero Freeway, it has been replaced by the F-Street Car line, vintage street cars purchased from cities across the nation, which ties into other lines and BART. The East Bay Terminal has been demolished to make way for CAL train to enter the downtown and connect with a new subway slated to go underground from Second and Mission to Fisherman's Wharf via Chinatown and North Beach.

See 480 here below, no wonder I never heard of it, natives referred to it as the Embarcadero Freeway.

California State Route 480 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

I-480 was part of an effort to connect the 101 via freeway from it's Bayshore section to the GG Bridge and counties to the north. It was a bad idea and an expensive one, which made it both a political and fiscal impossibility.

Doyle Drive, coming from the GG Bridge into the Marina is currently under major construction and will be safer, but it will still dump cars onto Van Ness Ave who want to continue south to Silicon Valley, San Jose and SoCAL; where it splits onto Park Presidio and then 19th Ave, for those wanting to go to SFSU or connect to 280 will remain a problem for a long long time.

Your point was irrelevant to the discussion and thus dishonest; supported by a very weak personal attack verifies what I already knew about you. Why not try to be honest?

No, my point was, and is, very relevant to the discussion. The city fathers had a blank slate to start with and they dithered and hymmed and hawed and still, 26 YEARS after the earthquake, the Bay area has fewer freeways than prior to the event.

Those are called facts. Your opinion about whether the I-480 was a worthwhile project is cute, but at the time, prior to the quake, it was a needed and funded project. Then the quake occurred and all bets were off.
Funny, I don't live in the area and I seem to know more than you do about the freeway systems, how is that possible?

You believe you know, I know you're full of shit.

Freeway numbers are kinda new, when I first drove we referred to the highways by names - the Nimitiz, the Bayshore, The Coast, The Redwoods, the Great Highway, the Skyline and the Cyprus which collapsed in the '89 Quake.

Since the collapse of the Cypress, overpasses and bridges have been retrofitted (or replaced as was the eastern span of the Bay Bridge) all around the bay area. Something you fail to mention.

The Embarcadero Freeway was both an eyesore and a source of high traffic dumped onto surface streets, as well gridlock on service streets trying to get to the EF on ramp.

 

[westwall]

What, you forget the Embarcadero? The Cypress was rebuilt as a single level instead of the double decker it used to be.. Or how about I-480? Remember that one? Demolished in 1991 but not rebuilt.

Call bullshit all you want, but it's you who are full of shit buckwheat.

The Embaradero Freeway was not only an eyesore, but one which puts lots of traffic onto surface streets. I'm familiar with 280, 380 580, 680, 780 & 880 - I can't recall a 480 but I'll look it up. But back to the Embarcadero Freeway, it has been replaced by the F-Street Car line, vintage street cars purchased from cities across the nation, which ties into other lines and BART. The East Bay Terminal has been demolished to make way for CAL train to enter the downtown and connect with a new subway slated to go underground from Second and Mission to Fisherman's Wharf via Chinatown and North Beach.

See 480 here below, no wonder I never heard of it, natives referred to it as the Embarcadero Freeway.

California State Route 480 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

I-480 was part of an effort to connect the 101 via freeway from it's Bayshore section to the GG Bridge and counties to the north. It was a bad idea and an expensive one, which made it both a political and fiscal impossibility.

Doyle Drive, coming from the GG Bridge into the Marina is currently under major construction and will be safer, but it will still dump cars onto Van Ness Ave who want to continue south to Silicon Valley, San Jose and SoCAL; where it splits onto Park Presidio and then 19th Ave, for those wanting to go to SFSU or connect to 280 will remain a problem for a long long time.

Your point was irrelevant to the discussion and thus dishonest; supported by a very weak personal attack verifies what I already knew about you. Why not try to be honest?

No, my point was, and is, very relevant to the discussion. The city fathers had a blank slate to start with and they dithered and hymmed and hawed and still, 26 YEARS after the earthquake, the Bay area has fewer freeways than prior to the event.

Those are called facts. Your opinion about whether the I-480 was a worthwhile project is cute, but at the time, prior to the quake, it was a needed and funded project. Then the quake occurred and all bets were off.
Funny, I don't live in the area and I seem to know more than you do about the freeway systems, how is that possible?

You believe you know, I know you're full of shit.

Freeway numbers are kinda new, when I first drove we referred to the highways by names - the Nimitiz, the Bayshore, The Coast, The Redwoods, the Great Highway, the Skyline and the Cyprus which collapsed in the '89 Quake.

Since the collapse of the Cypress, overpasses and bridges have been retrofitted (or replaced as was the eastern span of the Bay Bridge) all around the bay area. Something you fail to mention.

The Embarcadero Freeway was both an eyesore and a source of high traffic dumped onto surface streets, as well gridlock on service streets trying to get to the EF on ramp.

Yes, that is immaterial to my statement. Bridges that were destroyed were replaced, however as I said before there are fewer freeways now, than existed 26 years ago. No amount of wriggling can separate you from the ignorance you displayed by saying that was an untrue statement. It doesn't matter if the Embarcadero was an eyesore or not. IT MOVED TRAFFIC EFFICIENTLY! Something that the boulevard that replaced it does not.

You can call me names all you wish but the facts remain I know more about the freeway system there than you do. Funny how you call it the Nimitz, and not the Nitwitz like native Bay Area folks do. Where did you move to the Bay Area from?

 

[Wry Catcher]

The Embaradero Freeway was not only an eyesore, but one which puts lots of traffic onto surface streets. I'm familiar with 280, 380 580, 680, 780 & 880 - I can't recall a 480 but I'll look it up. But back to the Embarcadero Freeway, it has been replaced by the F-Street Car line, vintage street cars purchased from cities across the nation, which ties into other lines and BART. The East Bay Terminal has been demolished to make way for CAL train to enter the downtown and connect with a new subway slated to go underground from Second and Mission to Fisherman's Wharf via Chinatown and North Beach.

See 480 here below, no wonder I never heard of it, natives referred to it as the Embarcadero Freeway.

California State Route 480 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

I-480 was part of an effort to connect the 101 via freeway from it's Bayshore section to the GG Bridge and counties to the north. It was a bad idea and an expensive one, which made it both a political and fiscal impossibility.

Doyle Drive, coming from the GG Bridge into the Marina is currently under major construction and will be safer, but it will still dump cars onto Van Ness Ave who want to continue south to Silicon Valley, San Jose and SoCAL; where it splits onto Park Presidio and then 19th Ave, for those wanting to go to SFSU or connect to 280 will remain a problem for a long long time.

Your point was irrelevant to the discussion and thus dishonest; supported by a very weak personal attack verifies what I already knew about you. Why not try to be honest?

No, my point was, and is, very relevant to the discussion. The city fathers had a blank slate to start with and they dithered and hymmed and hawed and still, 26 YEARS after the earthquake, the Bay area has fewer freeways than prior to the event.

Those are called facts. Your opinion about whether the I-480 was a worthwhile project is cute, but at the time, prior to the quake, it was a needed and funded project. Then the quake occurred and all bets were off.
Funny, I don't live in the area and I seem to know more than you do about the freeway systems, how is that possible?

You believe you know, I know you're full of shit.

Freeway numbers are kinda new, when I first drove we referred to the highways by names - the Nimitiz, the Bayshore, The Coast, The Redwoods, the Great Highway, the Skyline and the Cyprus which collapsed in the '89 Quake.

Since the collapse of the Cypress, overpasses and bridges have been retrofitted (or replaced as was the eastern span of the Bay Bridge) all around the bay area. Something you fail to mention.

The Embarcadero Freeway was both an eyesore and a source of high traffic dumped onto surface streets, as well gridlock on service streets trying to get to the EF on ramp.

Yes, that is immaterial to my statement. Bridges that were destroyed were replaced, however as I said before there are fewer freeways now, than existed 26 years ago. No amount of wriggling can separate you from the ignorance you displayed by saying that was an untrue statement. It doesn't matter if the Embarcadero was an eyesore or not. IT MOVED TRAFFIC EFFICIENTLY! Something that the boulevard that replaced it does not.

You can call me names all you wish but the facts remain I know more about the freeway system there than you do. Funny how you call it the Nimitz, and not the Nitwitz like native Bay Area folks do. Where did you move to the Bay Area from?

You're a liar.

 

[westwall]

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

I-480 was part of an effort to connect the 101 via freeway from it's Bayshore section to the GG Bridge and counties to the north. It was a bad idea and an expensive one, which made it both a political and fiscal impossibility.

Doyle Drive, coming from the GG Bridge into the Marina is currently under major construction and will be safer, but it will still dump cars onto Van Ness Ave who want to continue south to Silicon Valley, San Jose and SoCAL; where it splits onto Park Presidio and then 19th Ave, for those wanting to go to SFSU or connect to 280 will remain a problem for a long long time.

Your point was irrelevant to the discussion and thus dishonest; supported by a very weak personal attack verifies what I already knew about you. Why not try to be honest?

No, my point was, and is, very relevant to the discussion. The city fathers had a blank slate to start with and they dithered and hymmed and hawed and still, 26 YEARS after the earthquake, the Bay area has fewer freeways than prior to the event.

Those are called facts. Your opinion about whether the I-480 was a worthwhile project is cute, but at the time, prior to the quake, it was a needed and funded project. Then the quake occurred and all bets were off.
Funny, I don't live in the area and I seem to know more than you do about the freeway systems, how is that possible?

You believe you know, I know you're full of shit.

Freeway numbers are kinda new, when I first drove we referred to the highways by names - the Nimitiz, the Bayshore, The Coast, The Redwoods, the Great Highway, the Skyline and the Cyprus which collapsed in the '89 Quake.

Since the collapse of the Cypress, overpasses and bridges have been retrofitted (or replaced as was the eastern span of the Bay Bridge) all around the bay area. Something you fail to mention.

The Embarcadero Freeway was both an eyesore and a source of high traffic dumped onto surface streets, as well gridlock on service streets trying to get to the EF on ramp.

Yes, that is immaterial to my statement. Bridges that were destroyed were replaced, however as I said before there are fewer freeways now, than existed 26 years ago. No amount of wriggling can separate you from the ignorance you displayed by saying that was an untrue statement. It doesn't matter if the Embarcadero was an eyesore or not. IT MOVED TRAFFIC EFFICIENTLY! Something that the boulevard that replaced it does not.

You can call me names all you wish but the facts remain I know more about the freeway system there than you do. Funny how you call it the Nimitz, and not the Nitwitz like native Bay Area folks do. Where did you move to the Bay Area from?

You're a liar.

Show where I've lied then.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The Embaradero Freeway was not only an eyesore, but one which puts lots of traffic onto surface streets. I'm familiar with 280, 380 580, 680, 780 & 880 - I can't recall a 480 but I'll look it up. But back to the Embarcadero Freeway, it has been replaced by the F-Street Car line, vintage street cars purchased from cities across the nation, which ties into other lines and BART. The East Bay Terminal has been demolished to make way for CAL train to enter the downtown and connect with a new subway slated to go underground from Second and Mission to Fisherman's Wharf via Chinatown and North Beach.

See 480 here below, no wonder I never heard of it, natives referred to it as the Embarcadero Freeway.

California State Route 480 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

I-480 was part of an effort to connect the 101 via freeway from it's Bayshore section to the GG Bridge and counties to the north. It was a bad idea and an expensive one, which made it both a political and fiscal impossibility.

Doyle Drive, coming from the GG Bridge into the Marina is currently under major construction and will be safer, but it will still dump cars onto Van Ness Ave who want to continue south to Silicon Valley, San Jose and SoCAL; where it splits onto Park Presidio and then 19th Ave, for those wanting to go to SFSU or connect to 280 will remain a problem for a long long time.

Your point was irrelevant to the discussion and thus dishonest; supported by a very weak personal attack verifies what I already knew about you. Why not try to be honest?

No, my point was, and is, very relevant to the discussion. The city fathers had a blank slate to start with and they dithered and hymmed and hawed and still, 26 YEARS after the earthquake, the Bay area has fewer freeways than prior to the event.

Those are called facts. Your opinion about whether the I-480 was a worthwhile project is cute, but at the time, prior to the quake, it was a needed and funded project. Then the quake occurred and all bets were off.
Funny, I don't live in the area and I seem to know more than you do about the freeway systems, how is that possible?

You believe you know, I know you're full of shit.

Freeway numbers are kinda new, when I first drove we referred to the highways by names - the Nimitiz, the Bayshore, The Coast, The Redwoods, the Great Highway, the Skyline and the Cyprus which collapsed in the '89 Quake.

Since the collapse of the Cypress, overpasses and bridges have been retrofitted (or replaced as was the eastern span of the Bay Bridge) all around the bay area. Something you fail to mention.

The Embarcadero Freeway was both an eyesore and a source of high traffic dumped onto surface streets, as well gridlock on service streets trying to get to the EF on ramp.

Yes, that is immaterial to my statement. Bridges that were destroyed were replaced, however as I said before there are fewer freeways now, than existed 26 years ago. No amount of wriggling can separate you from the ignorance you displayed by saying that was an untrue statement. It doesn't matter if the Embarcadero was an eyesore or not. IT MOVED TRAFFIC EFFICIENTLY! Something that the boulevard that replaced it does not.

You can call me names all you wish but the facts remain I know more about the freeway system there than you do. Funny how you call it the Nimitz, and not the Nitwitz like native Bay Area folks do. Where did you move to the Bay Area from?

Other than the EF, which was less than thee miles long, what freeways existed 26 years ago that are no longer in existence? I was born, raised and attended K - 12 in San Francisco. Went to CAL and returned to The City for graduate school. I still live in the Bay Area and still drive on the same freeways I did when I was 16.

 

[westwall]

The I-480 (not STATE ROUTE) was the cut over that joined the Embarcadero to the rest of the freeway system. Yes, there is a nice boulevard there now. It can't handle one third of the traffic that the Embarcadero could. Thanks for making my point.

I-480 was part of an effort to connect the 101 via freeway from it's Bayshore section to the GG Bridge and counties to the north. It was a bad idea and an expensive one, which made it both a political and fiscal impossibility.

Doyle Drive, coming from the GG Bridge into the Marina is currently under major construction and will be safer, but it will still dump cars onto Van Ness Ave who want to continue south to Silicon Valley, San Jose and SoCAL; where it splits onto Park Presidio and then 19th Ave, for those wanting to go to SFSU or connect to 280 will remain a problem for a long long time.

Your point was irrelevant to the discussion and thus dishonest; supported by a very weak personal attack verifies what I already knew about you. Why not try to be honest?

No, my point was, and is, very relevant to the discussion. The city fathers had a blank slate to start with and they dithered and hymmed and hawed and still, 26 YEARS after the earthquake, the Bay area has fewer freeways than prior to the event.

Those are called facts. Your opinion about whether the I-480 was a worthwhile project is cute, but at the time, prior to the quake, it was a needed and funded project. Then the quake occurred and all bets were off.
Funny, I don't live in the area and I seem to know more than you do about the freeway systems, how is that possible?

You believe you know, I know you're full of shit.

Freeway numbers are kinda new, when I first drove we referred to the highways by names - the Nimitiz, the Bayshore, The Coast, The Redwoods, the Great Highway, the Skyline and the Cyprus which collapsed in the '89 Quake.

Since the collapse of the Cypress, overpasses and bridges have been retrofitted (or replaced as was the eastern span of the Bay Bridge) all around the bay area. Something you fail to mention.

The Embarcadero Freeway was both an eyesore and a source of high traffic dumped onto surface streets, as well gridlock on service streets trying to get to the EF on ramp.

Yes, that is immaterial to my statement. Bridges that were destroyed were replaced, however as I said before there are fewer freeways now, than existed 26 years ago. No amount of wriggling can separate you from the ignorance you displayed by saying that was an untrue statement. It doesn't matter if the Embarcadero was an eyesore or not. IT MOVED TRAFFIC EFFICIENTLY! Something that the boulevard that replaced it does not.

You can call me names all you wish but the facts remain I know more about the freeway system there than you do. Funny how you call it the Nimitz, and not the Nitwitz like native Bay Area folks do. Where did you move to the Bay Area from?

Other than the EF, which was less than thee miles long, what freeways existed 26 years ago that are no longer in existence? I was born, raised and attended K - 12 in San Francisco. Went to CAL and returned to The City for graduate school. I still live in the Bay Area and still drive on the same freeways I did when I was 16.

I said, that the powers that be had not rebuilt back to the level that existed before the quake. How stupid are you? I mean you were able to pass a government employee test so you can't be entirely stupid but the Embarcadero Freeway is GONE. Replaced by a boulevard, you know the kind that has stop lights.

The Cypress structure was not rebuilt so the 880 has half the capacity it once had. Of course the I-480 is no longer needed because the freeway it was supposed to feed into was removed. Is this so hard for your tiny little head to wrap around? These are called FACTS. Instead of calling people names how about addressing the FACTS they present.

So, once again, where did you move to the Bay Area from?