How much is a poor persons life worth ?

[Manonthestreet]

lack of pride of ownership and lawsuit potential

I'm not sure I understand how that would have anything to do with the lack of working fire alarms and sprinklers and substandard cladding? I also heard that gas pipes in the stairwells were cited as problems.

as far as I know----the actual cause of the fire has not been determined. Fires are not CAUSED by
cladding, gas pipes in the stair wells or absent fire alarms. -----sometimes they start in meth, labs

That is certainly possible. What they've said so far is they don't think it was deliberate. The thing is - the cladding made it spread so much faster and hotter, and absent fire alarms meant people couldn't be warned in time.

right-------most fires are ACCIDENTAL. People do not smoke in bed in order to commit suicide

I have said for several days now, that IMHO it was caused by a discarded cigarette, the situation began on the fifth floor, so either someone threw a cigarette out of the window and it caught the cladding and this was the initiator or someone inside fell asleep while still holding a cigarette.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it, until such a time any new evidence is released that suggests otherwise.

Faulty fridge...........

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Local authorities have spent the last few days checking all of their property. Its a mixed picture. Ive seen a figure of 100k to fit sprinklers to Grenfell House.

But local government budgets have been cut by 40% due to tory austerity and so the penny pinching now has a body count.

On top of this there is an acute shortage of affordable housing in London due to tory and labour authorities selling off council housing and not replacing it. Some poor families in the area have been housed as far away as Birmingham because of it.

People have lost families and homes and will lose their jobs if they cant get settled locally. Meanwhile across the road there are private tower blocks bought as investments by foreigners that lie empty.

There is no way it would only cost 100k to install a sprinkler system in a building that size.

Also when you see footage of the inferno as it took hold, I don't think a sprinkler system would have been able to combat it, it was too extreme a situation.

Hard to say.
If the sprinklers had come on when the fire initially started they might have been able to stop it.

Inside the building yes, but that still would have left the exterior with the cladding which almost certainly was the reason why the whole building was enveloped and engulfed into an inferno within approx 15 minutes.

You'd like to think that a fire that started inside the building according to eyewitnesses wouldnt have ever made it to the buildings cladding.

Well yes you would, but read my post # 59

 

[Tommy Tainant]

And this is why they are not fitted as standard.

Tory minister warned against including sprinklers in fire safety rules as it could discourage house building

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And this is why they are not fitted as standard.

Tory minister warned against including sprinklers in fire safety rules as it could discourage house building

I guess we know who to blame.....

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I'm not sure I understand how that would have anything to do with the lack of working fire alarms and sprinklers and substandard cladding? I also heard that gas pipes in the stairwells were cited as problems.

as far as I know----the actual cause of the fire has not been determined. Fires are not CAUSED by
cladding, gas pipes in the stair wells or absent fire alarms. -----sometimes they start in meth, labs

That is certainly possible. What they've said so far is they don't think it was deliberate. The thing is - the cladding made it spread so much faster and hotter, and absent fire alarms meant people couldn't be warned in time.

right-------most fires are ACCIDENTAL. People do not smoke in bed in order to commit suicide

I have said for several days now, that IMHO it was caused by a discarded cigarette, the situation began on the fifth floor, so either someone threw a cigarette out of the window and it caught the cladding and this was the initiator or someone inside fell asleep while still holding a cigarette.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it, until such a time any new evidence is released that suggests otherwise.

Faulty fridge...........

Well that would be an alternative yes, if they didn't know it was faulty, they were in bed and the fridge blew up, went on fire, that then was the initiator.

It was a humid night, windows open, spread from that flat outside to the exterior cladding and from the cladding spread floor to floor via the cladding into open windows, whole building an inferno within 15 minutes.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

as far as I know----the actual cause of the fire has not been determined. Fires are not CAUSED by
cladding, gas pipes in the stair wells or absent fire alarms. -----sometimes they start in meth, labs

That is certainly possible. What they've said so far is they don't think it was deliberate. The thing is - the cladding made it spread so much faster and hotter, and absent fire alarms meant people couldn't be warned in time.

right-------most fires are ACCIDENTAL. People do not smoke in bed in order to commit suicide

I have said for several days now, that IMHO it was caused by a discarded cigarette, the situation began on the fifth floor, so either someone threw a cigarette out of the window and it caught the cladding and this was the initiator or someone inside fell asleep while still holding a cigarette.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it, until such a time any new evidence is released that suggests otherwise.

Faulty fridge...........

Well that would be an alternative yes, if they didn't know it was faulty, they were in bed and the fridge blew up, went on fire, that then was the initiator.

It was a humid night, windows open, spread from that flat outside to the exterior cladding and from the cladding spread floor to floor via the cladding into open windows, whole building an inferno within 15 minutes.

I could see the fridge catching fire,then once the unit was fully involved the flames started licking out the window thus igniting the cladding.

Kinda like this....

 

[Tommy Tainant]

And this is why they are not fitted as standard.

Tory minister warned against including sprinklers in fire safety rules as it could discourage house building

I guess we know who to blame.....

I think it will end up being a lot more complicated than that. There will have to be a fall guy though.

 

[Vastator]

Well here it is.

The price of a life is £2.

Non flammable panels cost £24 and the flammable ones at Grenfell cost £22. So to make a saving of just £5k the tory run local authority turned the tower into a death trap.

Fire-resistant Grenfell Tower cladding would have cost just £5k more

And now it emerges that these panels are banned in the US.

Cladding used on Grenfell Tower 'was banned in US'

And just to complete the circle the company who installed the cladding are tax dodgers.

Grenfell cladding bosses 'put £2.5m into tax avoidance' | Daily Mail Online

I am numb as the realisation dawns that we are not protected by anything other than the contractors conscience.

How much is a life worth...? What does she look like; and how old is she?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Well here it is.

The price of a life is £2.

Non flammable panels cost £24 and the flammable ones at Grenfell cost £22. So to make a saving of just £5k the tory run local authority turned the tower into a death trap.

Fire-resistant Grenfell Tower cladding would have cost just £5k more

And now it emerges that these panels are banned in the US.

Cladding used on Grenfell Tower 'was banned in US'

And just to complete the circle the company who installed the cladding are tax dodgers.

Grenfell cladding bosses 'put £2.5m into tax avoidance' | Daily Mail Online

I am numb as the realisation dawns that we are not protected by anything other than the contractors conscience.

How much is a life worth...? What does she look like; and how old is she?

I was just going to go with a buck twentyfive....

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Amazing. A Grenfell Tower blogger threatened with legal action after voicing safety concerns.

Kensington and Chelsea Council threatened Grenfell Tower blogger with legal action after he brought up fire safety

I do think that this puts the local authority firmly in the frame. Its all got a whiff of pre revolutionary France about it.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Robert Peston

This is an excellent summary of the situation facing us. Robert Peston is a soft right journalist and not a liberal by any means.

One reason why the Grenfell tragedy has shaken so many of us is because it exposes so much of what's wrong with the way this place has been run for years.

We'll have to wait for a forensic examination of all the many decisions that turned a series of risks into an appalling catastrophe.

But although the trigger may still be unclear, it is reasonable to identify a number of underlying causes.

Part of the background is austerity that has been particularly acute for local government.

But austerity seems to have become particularly toxic in a system where responsibility for vital safety decisions is so diffuse: we have ministers in charge of regulations, councillors funding an arms length management company, and a management company placing a refurbishment contract with the cheapest bidder.

There is naturally huge anger that the government didn't ban the kind of cladding used at Grenfell, when such cladding is illegal for use on high rise structures in the US (as the Times reports today).

Similarly there is horror that the government never made it obligatory for the fire safety standards that apply to new buildings to be enforced at older blocks - that such improvements are only recommended, not obligatory.

But such lax or light touch regulation only becomes fatal in a system - such as we have - designed to drive down costs and save money, not to put the safety of people first.

It is a system in which those working for all the interconnected bodies that made the refurbishment decisions and gave the wrong safety advice to tenants are able to say - as if that makes it alright - "we followed the rules".

It is a system in which identifying anyone who can be proved to be ultimately responsible for what happened may be impossible.

And as we saw in the banks before the financial crisis, when people can take reckless decisions safe in the knowledge they can't be held to account, reckless decisions get taken.

The horrific corollary of a faceless, irresponsible system of public-housing governance is that many of the poor and vulnerable people who died in the fire are not even being given the respect of formal identification as victims - because they live on the fringes of the state, and the authorities seem unable to be confident they even existed, let alone that they have died.

There is a social contract between those of us lucky enough to have voices that are heard and those who don't that we should not put them in harms way. Grenfell seems the most grotesque breach of that contract in my lifetime. It shames us all.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

This has nothing to do with poor people, it has EVERYTHING to do with GREED and cutting corners so they can maximise profit at the expense of safety.

You mean liberal GOVERNMENTS can be greedy?! (Of course they can)

 

[Yousaidwhat]

Well here it is.

The price of a life is £2.

Non flammable panels cost £24 and the flammable ones at Grenfell cost £22. So to make a saving of just £5k the tory run local authority turned the tower into a death trap.

Fire-resistant Grenfell Tower cladding would have cost just £5k more

And now it emerges that these panels are banned in the US.

Cladding used on Grenfell Tower 'was banned in US'

And just to complete the circle the company who installed the cladding are tax dodgers.

Grenfell cladding bosses 'put £2.5m into tax avoidance' | Daily Mail Online

I am numb as the realisation dawns that we are not protected by anything other than the contractors conscience.

I'm not sure how many of those people were technically poor as in poverty.

Here are some pictures of what those flats in Grenfell Tower looked like before the horrendous disaster and are people in Britain considered poor if the rent on those flats was £2,000 a month? I'm sorry poor people do NOT live in apartment buildings where the flats cost £2,000 a month to rent.

So this terrible situation has nothing to do with the economics of the people who lived in Grenfell Tower, but Leftists WANT to use this as a Rich vs Poor political football to attempt to cause division, which is a typical Leftist Strategy of driving wedges and pitting one group of people against the other and to use an horrific tragedy as Grenfell Tower to do this is lower than low.

Do poor people live in flats like the one below from Grenfell Tower? I think not.

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London fire: Inside the £2,000-a-month Grenfell Tower flats before the blaze

"A huge fire has raged through a 24-storey block of flats in north Kensington, killing at least 12 people and leaving many more missing or injured.

The inferno broke out at Grenfell Tower, home to hundreds of residents in the Lancaster West Estate shortly before 1am on Wednesday morning.

The blaze is thought to have started on the third or fourth floor before destroying flat after flat as flames and smoke ripped through the block.

Grenfell Tower, which was built in 1974, is owned by Kensington and Chelsea council and run by its housing association, Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation.

The block contains 120 flats made up of a mix of social housing and also private homes which are sold or rented out by KCTMO.

Last year a multi-million pound refurbishment of the block was completed which included work to modernise the tower with cladding and replacement windows.

One of the two-bed flats, on the 18th floor of the building, was listed to rent at the end of the last year for £1,971 a month.

Photos of the inside of the flat shows a fitted kitchen, open plan living room, two double bedrooms, bathroom and separate toilet.

The advert boasts of the flat’s location near to Latimer Road Tube station and says the property is well insulated”.

Inside the £2k-a-month Grenfell Tower flats before the blaze

What a dump.

Nobody should be forced to live in such horrible conditions.

 

[2aguy]

Well here it is.

The price of a life is £2.

Non flammable panels cost £24 and the flammable ones at Grenfell cost £22. So to make a saving of just £5k the tory run local authority turned the tower into a death trap.

Fire-resistant Grenfell Tower cladding would have cost just £5k more

And now it emerges that these panels are banned in the US.

Cladding used on Grenfell Tower 'was banned in US'

And just to complete the circle the company who installed the cladding are tax dodgers.

Grenfell cladding bosses 'put £2.5m into tax avoidance' | Daily Mail Online

I am numb as the realisation dawns that we are not protected by anything other than the contractors conscience.

No....the Green Energy agenda caused the problem......and in a socialist country where the Green Fascists impose their agenda, they have to make do with cheap crap because the social welfare system has already sucked up all the available money........and the government control over every aspect of life over there places incompetent, uncaring people in the decision making postitions......they don't care, and they don't have the money even if they did...

And so the Green Fascists won...........besides...the Green Fascists feel there are too many people in the world anyway.....Never let the left get control of your health or welfare, they don't like people....and will treat you like they don't like people...

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Pounds? I can't even type that symbol. This is the United States section of USMB. This belongs in the European section.

 

[2aguy]

Pounds? I can't even type that symbol. This is the United States section of USMB. This belongs in the European section.

actually, it needs to be where people can see it...so they can see what happens when you allow Green Fascism, and socialism to take over a country......they do stupid things that get innocent people killed....

 

[Tommy Tainant]

And the victims have still not been housed by the tory council or the tory government. Who is in charge of the crisis here ?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well here it is.

The price of a life is £2.

Non flammable panels cost £24 and the flammable ones at Grenfell cost £22. So to make a saving of just £5k the tory run local authority turned the tower into a death trap.

Fire-resistant Grenfell Tower cladding would have cost just £5k more

And now it emerges that these panels are banned in the US.

Cladding used on Grenfell Tower 'was banned in US'

And just to complete the circle the company who installed the cladding are tax dodgers.

Grenfell cladding bosses 'put £2.5m into tax avoidance' | Daily Mail Online

I am numb as the realisation dawns that we are not protected by anything other than the contractors conscience.

Is it hardly surprising?

I mean you have the Tories (Kensington has had a Tory MP for 99 years up until last week) and the local council has 42 Conservatives, 9 Labour and 3 Lib Dem councillors.

This is the same Tory Party which is trying to destroy the NHS by saying it's too expensive, and turn it into the US system which costs twice as much. The same Tory Party which is defunding education. The same Tory Party which is defunding the police. Yes, they're taking from the poor to give to the rich, and it's the most important areas, health, education and safety that they're taking from because they don't actually value the lives of those people who they have been elected to represent.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Well here it is.

The price of a life is £2.

Non flammable panels cost £24 and the flammable ones at Grenfell cost £22. So to make a saving of just £5k the tory run local authority turned the tower into a death trap.

Fire-resistant Grenfell Tower cladding would have cost just £5k more

And now it emerges that these panels are banned in the US.

Cladding used on Grenfell Tower 'was banned in US'

And just to complete the circle the company who installed the cladding are tax dodgers.

Grenfell cladding bosses 'put £2.5m into tax avoidance' | Daily Mail Online

I am numb as the realisation dawns that we are not protected by anything other than the contractors conscience.

Is it hardly surprising?

I mean you have the Tories (Kensington has had a Tory MP for 99 years up until last week) and the local council has 42 Conservatives, 9 Labour and 3 Lib Dem councillors.

This is the same Tory Party which is trying to destroy the NHS by saying it's too expensive, and turn it into the US system which costs twice as much. The same Tory Party which is defunding education. The same Tory Party which is defunding the police. Yes, they're taking from the poor to give to the rich, and it's the most important areas, health, education and safety that they're taking from because they don't actually value the lives of those people who they have been elected to represent.

I think that they will wait a couple of years before clearing the site and selling it on to developers.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well here it is.

The price of a life is £2.

Non flammable panels cost £24 and the flammable ones at Grenfell cost £22. So to make a saving of just £5k the tory run local authority turned the tower into a death trap.

Fire-resistant Grenfell Tower cladding would have cost just £5k more

And now it emerges that these panels are banned in the US.

Cladding used on Grenfell Tower 'was banned in US'

And just to complete the circle the company who installed the cladding are tax dodgers.

Grenfell cladding bosses 'put £2.5m into tax avoidance' | Daily Mail Online

I am numb as the realisation dawns that we are not protected by anything other than the contractors conscience.

Is it hardly surprising?

I mean you have the Tories (Kensington has had a Tory MP for 99 years up until last week) and the local council has 42 Conservatives, 9 Labour and 3 Lib Dem councillors.

This is the same Tory Party which is trying to destroy the NHS by saying it's too expensive, and turn it into the US system which costs twice as much. The same Tory Party which is defunding education. The same Tory Party which is defunding the police. Yes, they're taking from the poor to give to the rich, and it's the most important areas, health, education and safety that they're taking from because they don't actually value the lives of those people who they have been elected to represent.

I think that they will wait a couple of years before clearing the site and selling it on to developers.

Always money to be made, just got to make sure people don't make connections and get angry.