How Long Has the PPACA/Obamacare Been in Effect?
- Thread starter Dante
- Start date
- Banned
- #102
Dante please, no more of your opinions.
Just go get srces from the Founding Fathers and the Federalist Papers to support your claim.
- Banned
- #105
George Bush would disagree with you.
".... For all Americans, we must confront the rising cost of care.... "
GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE
February 15, 2006
Kaiser and other studies say otherwise.
This is the average cost of insurance premiums.
and
Here is one with 2011
And with 2012
The fact of the matter is that health care costs and insurance premiums have continued to rise for better than a decade. Attributing the rise simply PPACA is pure folly.
This is the facts about the rate of increase;
"Kaiser crunched the numbers and says yes, but only modestly:
The two provisions in the Affordable Care Act likely to have the greatest effect on the premiums for employer-sponsored health coverage in 2011 are allowing children up to age 26 to remain on their parents plans and requiring plans that are not grandfathered to provide preventive services with no patient cost-sharing. Our analysis, based in part on estimates provided by federal agencies when regulations implementing these provisions were issued, suggests that these provisions are responsible for 1-2 percentage points of the 9% increase in family premiums in 2011. (emphasis added)
Stripping out those two specific ACA effects, premiums would still have increased by 7-8% according to Kaisers estimates."
A more compact view is
This is the PPACA law.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf
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2012 - The Year In Healthcare Charts - Forbes
Reforming Health Care for the 21st Century
Let me know when you post something germaine to the conversation actually taking place in this thred i.e. Obama's lie about keeping any plan you liked.
It will be easy, all you have to do is get an actual clue as to reality. Then it all becomes perfectly clear.
To begin, health care premiums have been increasing since before 2009 and PPACA had nothing to do with it.
Second, prior to PPACA, states regulated insurance companies, requiring them to comply with state standards. By agreement, health insurance companies were not subject to federal anti-trust laws. This resulted in varying standards from state to state and natural oligopolies in the health insurance markets of states.
There is simply nothing about PPACA that is responsible for any effects that you would so like to claim except that there is now a common standard across the country so, as someone else pointed out, you now get at least as much as before and likely more. That isn't "not getting to keep the plan you had." That is getting to keep the plan you had with additional coverage.
The fact of the matter is, you don't suddenly pay attention then attribute all that you were previously ignorant about to what you just noticed. That isn't how causality works.
Perhaps the problem you are having is that there is nothing in your concept of PPACA, health insurance, and the health care markets that is germane to reality.
At the very foundation, the issues with regard to the healthcare markets are so far beyond your over-simplistic view of reality that your very perception isn't germane to the thread.
If you have family coverage, then the fact of the matter is that now that insurance must cover your dependent children up to the age of 26. So, by that standard, you don't get to "keep the coverage you had". And there is no provision in the law that forces insurance companies to keep supplying a plan, just because you like it.
And, if you had bothered to read PPACA, like the rest of us, you would have known this back in 2009.
Your ignorance isn't anyone else's problem.
So, like I said, here is the link to PPACA
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf
Try reading the table of contents. It's the place to start and you won't be caught off guard next time you decide to open your eyes and look around.
Honey please, first, we are talking about the indivdual market, not employer group.
Employer Group gets hit next year.
Just thank me.
itfitzme
Silver Member
Meant to trim your response out. Antares is way behind. My bad.
The "redistribution of wealth" concept is flawed and completely devoid of reality from the outset. The very nature of the economy is to distribute and redistribute wealth and resources. The question is whether that distribution and redistribution is appropriately balanced to maximize growth and standard of living.
Last edited:
- Banned
- #107
Dante please, things are not "facts" just because we say they are, I am asking you to source your assertions.
- Banned
- #108
(smile) Antares is runnng the show, you don't even know what the conversation is about
itfitzme
Silver Member
(smile) Antares is runnng the show, you don't even know what the conversation is about
It started with the website thingy.
Antares is, though, so completely out of touch with reality in terms of understanding what the nature of the healthcare markets, healthcare insurance system, healthcare costs, and PPACA, that anything of real significance will seem to be not germane to him. The only approach, in this general forum, is to start with the basics, the basics of prices, the basics of micro and macro econ, the basics of PPACA.
IlarMeilyr
Liability Reincarnate!
Folks are "ignorant" of the official start date of ObumblerCare because it was drafted in an incomprehensible gibberish jargon laden version of legislative-ese. Just the way the inept President and the asshole lolberal Democratics in Congress wanted it.
And it has multiple "start" dates, anyway.
And they rely on morons like you to "explain" it so, clearly, there's no chance of it ever being explained intelligently, intelligibly or honestly.
Dante
I have always been here
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #112
Dante please, things are not "facts" just because we say they are, I am asking you to source your assertions.
Your ignorance is surpassed only by your delusions of sentiency. Look up how the War of Independence was financed and how the newly created USA paid the debt accrued...by all colonies and the Continental Congress, as well as individuals.
Then look up (again) how taxes collected by the federal government have been disbursed to the states.
- Banned
- #113
(smile) Antares is runnng the show, you don't even know what the conversation is about
It started with the website thingy.
Antares is, though, so completely out of touch with reality in terms of understanding what the nature of the healthcare markets, healthcare insurance system, healthcare costs, and PPACA, that anything of real significance will seem to be not germane to him. The only approach, in this general forum, is to start with the basics, the basics of prices, the basics of micro and macro econ, the basics of PPACA.
LOL.
Antares works in all of those areas 5 1/2 days a week.
NOBODY has been talkining about how the website isn't working for awhile
We are discussing the fact that Cracka Prez lied about being able to keep your plan if you liked it
You don't get to redefine the conversation, sorry.
IlarMeilyr
Liability Reincarnate!
(smile) Antares is runnng the show, you don't even know what the conversation is about
It started with the website thingy.
Antares is, though, so completely out of touch with reality in terms of understanding what the nature of the healthcare markets, healthcare insurance system, healthcare costs, and PPACA, that anything of real significance will seem to be not germane to him. The only approach, in this general forum, is to start with the basics, the basics of prices, the basics of micro and macro econ, the basics of PPACA.
LOL.
Antares works in all of those areas 5 1/2 days a week.
NOBODY has been talkining about how the website isn't working for awhile
We are discussing the fact that Cracka Prez lied about being able to keep your plan if you liked it
You don't get to redefine the conversation, sorry.
^ Yup.
- Banned
- #115
Facts you dislike now become opinions? Huh?
Dante please, things are not "facts" just because we say they are, I am asking you to source your assertions.
Your ignorance is surpassed only by your delusions of sentiency. Look up how the War of Independence was financed and how the newly created USA paid the debt accrued...by all colonies and the Continental Congress, as well as individuals.
Then look up (again) how taxes collected by the federal government have been disbursed to the states.
LOL, deflection.
Just cite your assertions
itfitzme
Silver Member
" it was drafted in an incomprehensible gibberish jargon laden version of legislative-ese."
That would be a subjective opinion based on your reading skills and comprehension of the law. It is not a "fact".
Of course it has multiple start dates for different provisions. The health care system includes everything from student loans and university curriculums to the corner pharmacy. It would be fundamentally stupid to not have multiple start dates to implement different parts of the law.
IlarMeilyr
Liability Reincarnate!
No no.
It IS a fact.
Even the idiot former Mumbler of the House (the moron, Pelousy) acknowledged BEFORE it got "passed" that it would have to BE passed in order to know what was in it.
Even then, not much help. It's ******* convoluted gibberish. And if you had any sense of honesty, even a hack like you would admit it.
- Banned
- #118
There, some truth, was that s hard?
But that is not what the thread has evolved/devolved into.
itfitzme
Silver Member
LOL.
Antares works in all of those areas 5 1/2 days a week.
NOBODY has been talkining about how the website isn't working for awhile
We are discussing the fact that Cracka Prez lied about being able to keep your plan if you liked it
You don't get to redefine the conversation, sorry.
^ Yup.
Someone assumes their lack of memory means things didn't happen.
Dante
I have always been here
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #120
Dearest USMB House Simpleton, the PPACA/Obamacare does NOT have "multiple start dates" as you claim. It became started the day it was signed into law. Portions of the law are rolled out as it was listed it would be...in the law...in plain and simple language.
Just because the Rightwing Noise Machine has you confused and running in circles is not the fault of Obamacare, but what you suffer from IS covered as a pre-existing condition
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