How Long Has the PPACA/Obamacare Been in Effect?

[Dante]

Never mind that it is the ACA itself that is causing all of these plans to go away.

ACA isn't in the health care insurance business. It is regulation to insure that your insurance really covers your responsibility to cover the cost of your own health care.

The PPACA/Obamacare is much more than that, much more...

You are referrencing the penalty/mandate, an enforcement mechanism of a broad law/policy.

I know it's often difficult to not get caught up in the style and tactis of tge wingnuts here. No offense intended. :

 

[PMZ]

If you think that ObamaCare is going to save money...then you've obviously not studied what it consists of. This was not "health care reform" designed to lower costs...this was health care reform designed to give subsidized health care to the poor and have the Middle Class pick up the tab for it. When you blow away all the smoke and break all the mirrors...that's what is left. It's wealth redistribution. Always was...always will be.

It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation.

Requiring everyone to be responsible for their own health care costs. And bringing the cost of those that business chooses not to pay a living wage to, for full time work, from under the table to on top.

"
It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation."

To be fair, it was sold as both.

I don't understand. It has nothing at all to do with health care delivery and never did.

I think that the confusion about that, in the minds of the confused people, came from Republican obfuscation building their Obamacare boogeyman.

 

[Dante]

It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation.

Requiring everyone to be responsible for their own health care costs. And bringing the cost of those that business chooses not to pay a living wage to, for full time work, from under the table to on top.

"
It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation."

To be fair, it was sold as both.

O
I don't understand. It has nothing at all to do with health care delivery and never did.

I think that the confusion about that, in the minds of the confused people, came from Republican obfuscation building their Obamacare boogeyman.

Funny thing is the Rightwing Noise Machine has distorted the discourse so successfully that even the responses in defense of the PPACA/Obamacare come out of tbe distorted narrative of the right.

"It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation."

Your quote is contrary to subtitles and sections within the bill as passed and enacted and judged constitutional: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text

 

[Oldstyle]

We already pay the bills for those people with our taxes with Medicaid (MediCal in California). Makes more sense to put the money out up front that to chase after the problem with money. Also, since the ACA emphasizes preventative care, which is non existent in Medicaid, that alone will save hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run.

If you think that ObamaCare is going to save money...then you've obviously not studied what it consists of. This was not "health care reform" designed to lower costs...this was health care reform designed to give subsidized health care to the poor and have the Middle Class pick up the tab for it. When you blow away all the smoke and break all the mirrors...that's what is left. It's wealth redistribution. Always was...always will be.

It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation.

Requiring everyone to be responsible for their own health care costs. And bringing the cost of those that business chooses not to pay a living wage to, for full time work, from under the table to on top.

With all due respect, PMZ? It was "sold" as the AFFORDABLE Care Act. It was sold to Americans by claiming that it would miraculously add coverage for millions who couldn't afford it while at the same time lowering the health care costs of middle class Americans by some $2,500 a year and also lowering the deficit!

The misrepresentation of what this bill was...would land anyone who tried to "sell" it in the private sector in court for fraud. If you tried to sell appliances or cars with the same outright lies that progressives used to sell ObamaCare you would find yourself in court being sued by the people you scammed.

 

[Dante]

If you think that ObamaCare is going to save money...then you've obviously not studied what it consists of. This was not "health care reform" designed to lower costs...this was health care reform designed to give subsidized health care to the poor and have the Middle Class pick up the tab for it. When you blow away all the smoke and break all the mirrors...that's what is left. It's wealth redistribution. Always was...always will be.

It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation.

Requiring everyone to be responsible for their own health care costs. And bringing the cost of those that business chooses not to pay a living wage to, for full time work, from under the table to on top.

With all due respect, PMZ? It was "sold" as the AFFORDABLE Care Act. It was sold to Americans by claiming that it would miraculously add coverage for millions who couldn't afford it while at the same time lowering the health care costs of middle class Americans by some $2,500 a year and also lowering the deficit!

The misrepresentation of what this bill was...would land anyone who tried to "sell" it in the private sector in court for fraud. If you tried to sell appliances or cars with the same outright lies that progressives used to sell ObamaCare you would find yourself in court being sued by the people you scammed.

With all due respect [MENTION=31215]Oldstyle[/MENTION] you are prematurely judging things.

 

[PMZ]

If you think that ObamaCare is going to save money...then you've obviously not studied what it consists of. This was not "health care reform" designed to lower costs...this was health care reform designed to give subsidized health care to the poor and have the Middle Class pick up the tab for it. When you blow away all the smoke and break all the mirrors...that's what is left. It's wealth redistribution. Always was...always will be.

It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation.

Requiring everyone to be responsible for their own health care costs. And bringing the cost of those that business chooses not to pay a living wage to, for full time work, from under the table to on top.

With all due respect, PMZ? It was "sold" as the AFFORDABLE Care Act. It was sold to Americans by claiming that it would miraculously add coverage for millions who couldn't afford it while at the same time lowering the health care costs of middle class Americans by some $2,500 a year and also lowering the deficit!

The misrepresentation of what this bill was...would land anyone who tried to "sell" it in the private sector in court for fraud. If you tried to sell appliances or cars with the same outright lies that progressives used to sell ObamaCare you would find yourself in court being sued by the people you scammed.

The representation that you speak of was how the Republican's misrepresented ACA in their propaganda.

The vast, vast majority of Americans 'buy' their health care through insurance. The cost of their health care, to them, appears as insurance premiums.

Those premiums have and will always reflect the cost of health care delivery. Plus insurance company overhead and profit. That have never stopped growing.

As I said about two pages ago the goal of ACA is to hold everyone responsible for their own health care costs. For wealthy and those with responsible employers, ACA only has one impact. To make sure that you really are protected from imposing your costs on others with adequate coverage.

For those that business refuses to pay a living wage to, it does allow them to AFFORD health care by supplements on the table rather than health care under the table.

 

[Antares]

You are entitled to your own whack-a-doodle 'truth' but not your own facts.

You are projecting Dante....premiums have gone through the roof...only you, franco and PMZ seem to still have your blinders on.

Can't wait for you to quote where I said that health care insurance rates haven't followed health care delivery costs up and up and up.

I can't wait for you to be able to read and comprehend who is being spoken to when

Oh yes.....and the premiums shot up BECAUSE of your "regulations"....you just aren't very good at this kid.

 

[Antares]

Never mind that it is the ACA itself that is causing all of these plans to go away.

ACA isn't in the health care insurance business. It is regulation to insure that your insurance really covers your responsibility to cover the cost of your own health care.

Semantics are and always have been the refuge of the intellectually weak.

The ACA IS the regulatory vehicle being used to shove ALL non compliant plans out the window..the ALL end at the end of 2015 becuase the ACA, sorry kid Prez Cracka lied when he said EVERYONE could keep their plan "period".

The old plans END and the new plans replace them...and I am replacing them every day.

 

[Dante]

Semantics are and always have been the refuge of the intellectually weak.

...and lying through omission has always been a refuge for the intellectually dishonest and the integrity challenged.

 

[Antares]

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage

The projections, prepared by the Society of Actuaries in March, 2013 predicted some pretty outrageous premium increases for people with individual coverage in the likes of California, 62%, Alabama, 60%, Texas, 34% and Arizona 41%. Only in New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey would the premiums decline slightly for people with individual coverage, a segment of the market that is expected to increase from 11.9 million people at present to 25.6 million as more Americans sign up for insurance coverage under ObamaCare.

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage - Forbes

I truly am sorry kids, the Cracka lied to you.

 

[PMZ]

You are projecting Dante....premiums have gone through the roof...only you, franco and PMZ seem to still have your blinders on.

Can't wait for you to quote where I said that health care insurance rates haven't followed health care delivery costs up and up and up.

I can't wait for you to be able to read and comprehend who is being spoken to when

Oh yes.....and the premiums shot up BECAUSE of your "regulations"....you just aren't very good at this kid.

I thought that you said that you were good at this grandpa.

For comparison. How much would the Republican plan have lowered health care insurance premiums?

 

[Dante]

ObamaCare Facts: Facts on the Affordable Care Act

Just the facts ma'm

.• Coverage purchased through the marketplace before December 15th doesn't start until January 1st, 2014. This is because many of ObamaCare's benefits, rights and protections don't kick in until 2014. Apply for coverage now to see what your options are. You can enroll at anytime after filling out an application. Even if you plan to buy insurance some other way, it is still smart to know your options.

Find Out What the Affordable Care Act Means for You:

...
• 1 in 2 Americans have a "pre-existing" condition that they could be denied health insurance for. ObamaCare chips Away at pre-existing conditions until 2014 when there are no more pre-existing conditions for anyone, including high-risk customers. This means you can no longer be denied coverage or treatment or charged more for health status. Find out more about pre-existing conditions.

• 54 million Americans with private health insurance now have access to preventive services with no cost sharing due to the new minimum standards of ObamaCare.

• ObamaCare doesn't ration health care; it protects consumers from the health care rationing that insurance companies have been doing for ages.

• ObamaCare reduces the growth in healthcare spending. The current $2.8 trillion U.S. healthcare system costs almost $9k a year for every man, woman, and child.

• The new law affects everyone differently. Find out, "How the Affordable Care Act Will Affect Me?:

 

[PMZ]

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage

The projections, prepared by the Society of Actuaries in March, 2013 predicted some pretty outrageous premium increases for people with individual coverage in the likes of California, 62%, Alabama, 60%, Texas, 34% and Arizona 41%. Only in New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey would the premiums decline slightly for people with individual coverage, a segment of the market that is expected to increase from 11.9 million people at present to 25.6 million as more Americans sign up for insurance coverage under ObamaCare.

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage - Forbes

I truly am sorry kids, the Cracka lied to you.

Looky here dumbass, from your reference.

"the fact that premiums are driven primarily by the underlying cost of medical care and not health plans administrative costs and profits.”

Thanks for the demonstration of how easy conservatives are to fool. Glad that I can think for myself.

 

[Antares]

Can't wait for you to quote where I said that health care insurance rates haven't followed health care delivery costs up and up and up.

I can't wait for you to be able to read and comprehend who is being spoken to when

Oh yes.....and the premiums shot up BECAUSE of your "regulations"....you just aren't very good at this kid.

I thought that you said that you were good at this grandpa.

For comparison. How much would the Republican plan have lowered health care insurance premiums?

No deflection, sorry.

The ACA raised premiums dramatically and compliance with it cause insurance companies to HAVE to cancel the non compliant plans...Prez Cracka led to you.

 

[Antares]

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage

The projections, prepared by the Society of Actuaries in March, 2013 predicted some pretty outrageous premium increases for people with individual coverage in the likes of California, 62%, Alabama, 60%, Texas, 34% and Arizona 41%. Only in New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey would the premiums decline slightly for people with individual coverage, a segment of the market that is expected to increase from 11.9 million people at present to 25.6 million as more Americans sign up for insurance coverage under ObamaCare.

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage - Forbes

I truly am sorry kids, the Cracka lied to you.

Looky here dumbass, from your reference.

"the fact that premiums are driven primarily by the underlying cost of medical care and not health plans administrative costs and profits.”

Thanks for the demonstration of how easy conservatives are to fool. Glad that I can think for myself.

Do try and understand, the ACA raised premiums dramatically....it caused the old plans to end in order to become compliant......now here is the tough part for you....when you take those ten "basic" coverages and add them to the new plans premiums SKY Rocket...is that elementary enough for you.....

Here is your dilemma....you are screaming that the ACA wasn't about health care reform, it was about regulatory reform...and the new regualtions have CAUSED the prmiums to go up AND the old plans to die.

You are quite dense for a self proclaimed intellectual.

Cracka lied...insurance plans died.

 

[Dante]

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage

The projections, prepared by the Society of Actuaries in March, 2013 predicted some pretty outrageous premium increases for people with individual coverage in the likes of California, 62%, Alabama, 60%, Texas, 34% and Arizona 41%. Only in New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey would the premiums decline slightly for people with individual coverage, a segment of the market that is expected to increase from 11.9 million people at present to 25.6 million as more Americans sign up for insurance coverage under ObamaCare.

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage - Forbes

I truly am sorry kids, the Cracka lied to you.

"Cracka"?


Sorry? Yes you truly are.

Myth:
One of the most wide spread ObamaCare myths is that ObamaCare increases insurance premiums. While many Americans have seen their health insurance premiums rise since the passing of the new health care law, blaming "ObamaCare" is an over simplification of the truth.

The truth is insurance premiums have been growing faster than the rate of growth in income for well over a decade. Today there are more rules and regulations aimed at reducing the growth in premium rates like the rate review provision that stops insurance companies from unjustified rate hikes and the medical loss ratio provision that stops insurance companies from spending your premium dollars on non-health care related expenses. This isn't to say that the Affordable Care Act hasn't indirectly affected some premium increases.

ObamaCare stops insurance companies from raising premiums due to health status and gender or denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Every plan must offer more essential health benefits and preventive services at no out-of-pocket costs and much more. In some cases insurance companies have raised rates on existing plans in response to your new health care benefits, rights and protections.

Luckily ObamaCare does a lot to mitigate this affect, aside from the consumer protections mentioned above, ObamaCare creates a Health Insurance Exchange Pool known as the Health Insurance Marketplace. Today low-to-middle income Americans (and small businesses) can shop for subsidized, regulated health insurance from competing health care providers using their State's online marketplace.

Cost assistance offered through the marketplace greatly reduces premium costs of those making less than 400% of the Federal poverty level. (400% of the Federal Poverty level equates to individuals making less than $46,021 or a family of four making less than $93,700 a year). Learn more about the Health Insurance Marketplace.
ObamaCare: Myths About Health Care Reform

 

[Antares]

This is funny

I spend 5 1/2 days a week helping people get through this...I replace the plans they want to keep with the plans they do not want and the plans that are costing them as much 100% more.

PMZ wants to use both sides of his mouth to try and plant one foot on each side of the fence and Dante simply screams "nuh-uh".

I work for a non profit Heath Care Insurance Company and I do not want the ACA repealed, I want it fixed...it is quite fucked up right now but it can be saved.

 

[Antares]

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage

The projections, prepared by the Society of Actuaries in March, 2013 predicted some pretty outrageous premium increases for people with individual coverage in the likes of California, 62%, Alabama, 60%, Texas, 34% and Arizona 41%. Only in New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey would the premiums decline slightly for people with individual coverage, a segment of the market that is expected to increase from 11.9 million people at present to 25.6 million as more Americans sign up for insurance coverage under ObamaCare.

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage - Forbes

I truly am sorry kids, the Cracka lied to you.

"Cracka"?


Sorry? Yes you truly are.

Myth:
One of the most wide spread ObamaCare myths is that ObamaCare increases insurance premiums. While many Americans have seen their health insurance premiums rise since the passing of the new health care law, blaming "ObamaCare" is an over simplification of the truth.

The truth is insurance premiums have been growing faster than the rate of growth in income for well over a decade. Today there are more rules and regulations aimed at reducing the growth in premium rates like the rate review provision that stops insurance companies from unjustified rate hikes and the medical loss ratio provision that stops insurance companies from spending your premium dollars on non-health care related expenses. This isn't to say that the Affordable Care Act hasn't indirectly affected some premium increases.

ObamaCare stops insurance companies from raising premiums due to health status and gender or denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Every plan must offer more essential health benefits and preventive services at no out-of-pocket costs and much more. In some cases insurance companies have raised rates on existing plans in response to your new health care benefits, rights and protections.

Luckily ObamaCare does a lot to mitigate this affect, aside from the consumer protections mentioned above, ObamaCare creates a Health Insurance Exchange Pool known as the Health Insurance Marketplace. Today low-to-middle income Americans (and small businesses) can shop for subsidized, regulated health insurance from competing health care providers using their State's online marketplace.

Cost assistance offered through the marketplace greatly reduces premium costs of those making less than 400% of the Federal poverty level. (400% of the Federal Poverty level equates to individuals making less than $46,021 or a family of four making less than $93,700 a year). Learn more about the Health Insurance Marketplace.
ObamaCare: Myths About Health Care Reform

Classic

I post a study done by actuaries and Dante posts posts Obama's own website.....and Dante actually thinks that because there are subsidies availiable that "proves" that "premiums" aren't going up.

Um....dante...I have arranged subsidies ranging from $34 to $1200....and guess what?

The subsudies are there to offset the high premiums.

 

[Dante]

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage

The projections, prepared by the Society of Actuaries in March, 2013 predicted some pretty outrageous premium increases for people with individual coverage in the likes of California, 62%, Alabama, 60%, Texas, 34% and Arizona 41%. Only in New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey would the premiums decline slightly for people with individual coverage, a segment of the market that is expected to increase from 11.9 million people at present to 25.6 million as more Americans sign up for insurance coverage under ObamaCare.

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Premiums By 32% For Individual Coverage - Forbes

I truly am sorry kids, the Cracka lied to you.

"Cracka"?


Sorry? Yes you truly are.

Myth:
One of the most wide spread ObamaCare myths is that ObamaCare increases insurance premiums. While many Americans have seen their health insurance premiums rise since the passing of the new health care law, blaming "ObamaCare" is an over simplification of the truth.

The truth is insurance premiums have been growing faster than the rate of growth in income for well over a decade. Today there are more rules and regulations aimed at reducing the growth in premium rates like the rate review provision that stops insurance companies from unjustified rate hikes and the medical loss ratio provision that stops insurance companies from spending your premium dollars on non-health care related expenses. This isn't to say that the Affordable Care Act hasn't indirectly affected some premium increases.

ObamaCare stops insurance companies from raising premiums due to health status and gender or denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Every plan must offer more essential health benefits and preventive services at no out-of-pocket costs and much more. In some cases insurance companies have raised rates on existing plans in response to your new health care benefits, rights and protections.

Luckily ObamaCare does a lot to mitigate this affect, aside from the consumer protections mentioned above, ObamaCare creates a Health Insurance Exchange Pool known as the Health Insurance Marketplace. Today low-to-middle income Americans (and small businesses) can shop for subsidized, regulated health insurance from competing health care providers using their State's online marketplace.

Cost assistance offered through the marketplace greatly reduces premium costs of those making less than 400% of the Federal poverty level. (400% of the Federal Poverty level equates to individuals making less than $46,021 or a family of four making less than $93,700 a year). Learn more about the Health Insurance Marketplace.
ObamaCare: Myths About Health Care Reform

Classic

I post a study done by actuaries and Dante posts posts Obama's own website.....and Dante actually thinks that because there are subsidies availiable that "proves" that "premiums" aren't going up.

Um....dante...I have arranged subsidies ranging from $34 to $1200....and guess what?

The subsudies are there to offset the high premiums.

Your kneejerk reaction to attack from behind your supposed expertise...btw, how busy can you actually be spending 24/7 @usmb? -- reading and comprehension is not one of your strong suits is it?

"...blaming "ObamaCare" is an over simplification of the truth. The truth is insurance premiums have been growing faster than the rate of growth in income for well over a decade."

 

[PMZ]

This is funny

I spend 5 1/2 days a week helping people get through this...I replace the plans they want to keep with the plans they do not want and the plans that are costing them as much 100% more.

PMZ wants to use both sides of his mouth to try and plant one foot on each side of the fence and Dante simply screams "nuh-uh".

I work for a non profit Heath Care Insurance Company and I do not want the ACA repealed, I want it fixed...it is quite fucked up right now but it can be saved.

Actually, I think that it's right about where a start up normally is this far in. Some of the problems are inexperienced users, some are window shoppers, some are exaggerations, and some are real hardware and real software.

And, if you don't like it, don't use it. Do your shopping yourself. Take advantage of help.

Republican whining has been going on for many years. Is they weren't whining about this it would be something else.