rightwinger
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If Ukraine gets assurance that Russia will never invade again it may be a win
Otherwise it is just a chance for Putin to rest up and retool
How JD Vance emerged as the chief saboteur of the transatlantic alliance
- Thread starter C_Clayton_Jones
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Otherwise it is just a chance for Putin to rest up and retool
Failzero
Platinum Member
Obama made them give up their nukes , they will never really be safe .
He kept the Afghanistan government on the sidelines there also.
Crepitus
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They've chosen freedom over capitulation.
Crepitus
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Only you tRumplings could approve of a couch-molesting hillbilly as VP.
The EU needs to step up and get a minerals deal with Ukraine. The trump regime cannot be trusted. They speak Poootins words.
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
How would such assurance be enforced?
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
Anyway, that meeting did not go well, and probably would have gone better if it had been entirely behind closed doors. The substance of the meeting was intended to be behind closed doors, as all such meetings must be. Zelenskyy seemed not to know that.
Someone should have prepped Zelenskyy for proper deportment during what should have been the fake smiles photo op, instead of just helping him pick the proper t-shirt to wear in a meeting with POTUS.
I know it's childish to say, but Zelenskyy started the confrontation. Trump was very conciliatory in his opening remarks, almost hat in hand humble as he explained his talking to Putin, and now he would talk to Zelenskyy. Zelenskyy started stating his positions, and his words indicated a lack of flexibility and use of emotional appeals, i.e. "no compromise with a killer."
Then he went on to show pictures to Trump which seemed designed to embarass him. I started to think that Zelenskyy must have been prepped for this meeting by the DNC.
It is at 13:45 in this clip that Zelensky starts to go off the rails.
Trump speaks of the parents of soldiers dying in this war "whether they be in Russia or Ukraine." That sets Zelenskyy off. He looks very surprised at those words. He says "they came to our turf," like that means that their deaths are meaningless to their parents.
Nearly every U.S. military combat death since the Civil War ended was on some other country's "turf," but the deaths were tragic and it would have been better to end those wars sooner.
Right after that, a reporter asked if U.S. aid would continue to aid Ukraine and Trump said "it will continue," but the reporter talked over him to ask Zelenskyy if he felt that Trump was on his side.
I will fault Trump for even taking questions. Also for not cutting them off sooner.
Trump probably assumed that Zelenskyy knew what he was doing and would know what to say and what not to say. But Zelenskyy's expererience with Americans has been that he could say anything he wanted and would be adored for it. Small wonder he thought that. Look at the number of posters here with Ukrainian flags as their avatar.
And now, due to Zelenskyy's lack of understanding of diplomacy, the aid might not continue after all.
Someone should have prepped Zelenskyy for proper deportment during what should have been the fake smiles photo op, instead of just helping him pick the proper t-shirt to wear in a meeting with POTUS.
I know it's childish to say, but Zelenskyy started the confrontation. Trump was very conciliatory in his opening remarks, almost hat in hand humble as he explained his talking to Putin, and now he would talk to Zelenskyy. Zelenskyy started stating his positions, and his words indicated a lack of flexibility and use of emotional appeals, i.e. "no compromise with a killer."
Then he went on to show pictures to Trump which seemed designed to embarass him. I started to think that Zelenskyy must have been prepped for this meeting by the DNC.
It is at 13:45 in this clip that Zelensky starts to go off the rails.
Trump speaks of the parents of soldiers dying in this war "whether they be in Russia or Ukraine." That sets Zelenskyy off. He looks very surprised at those words. He says "they came to our turf," like that means that their deaths are meaningless to their parents.
Nearly every U.S. military combat death since the Civil War ended was on some other country's "turf," but the deaths were tragic and it would have been better to end those wars sooner.
Right after that, a reporter asked if U.S. aid would continue to aid Ukraine and Trump said "it will continue," but the reporter talked over him to ask Zelenskyy if he felt that Trump was on his side.
I will fault Trump for even taking questions. Also for not cutting them off sooner.
Trump probably assumed that Zelenskyy knew what he was doing and would know what to say and what not to say. But Zelenskyy's expererience with Americans has been that he could say anything he wanted and would be adored for it. Small wonder he thought that. Look at the number of posters here with Ukrainian flags as their avatar.
And now, due to Zelenskyy's lack of understanding of diplomacy, the aid might not continue after all.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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'JD Vance was supposed to be the inconsequential vice-president.
But his starring role in Friday’s blowup between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy – where he played a cross between Trump’s bulldog and tech bro Iago – may mark the moment that the postwar alliance between Europe and America finally collapsed.
Trump and Vance teamed up to goad Zelenskyy into a feud in the Oval Office. But it was Vance that snaked his way in first, riling up the Ukrainian president by telling him that he was leading “propaganda tours” of the destruction wrought by Russia’s invasion.
[…]
There is a thing in Washington that many people understand but that few will say: that the Trump administration was looking for a pretext to ruin its relationship with Ukraine, and that the canned messaging that followed the Oval Office feels oddly coordinated and premeditated.'
How JD Vance emerged as the chief saboteur of the transatlantic alliance
Vance snaked his way in first to the row between Trump and Zelenskyy, his second intrusion this month after Munichwww.theguardian.com
Attacking an ally and siding with the war criminal Putin is obviously Vance pandering to the Trump Cult who will need a new Cult Leader come 2028.
I can't wait for Britain, France, Germany and the rest of the Europeans who are grand standing and preening in front of the press right now as they disrespect Trump...............when they have to inform their welfare dependent peoples that in order to support Ukraine, a universal draft of British, French, and German young men will have to begin......to be sent to the Ukrainian front and the new, expanding front............
You morons on the left keep thinking you are getting over on Trump as you clown your way into an actual new world war....
Failzero
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World War Z
2aguy
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He knows that....he was told by the democrats to attack Trump in friont of the press, because democrats are children in adult bodies and they do not care how many Ukrainian men die in that mess.............
2aguy
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Yeah.......Zelensky has only one option....take Trump's peace plan.......the Europeans are preening and dancing...they are not going to do shit for Ukraine....and the Ukrainians had better wise up quick.....because their men are dying for nothing....
The wonder is that after the disgraceful performance of Zelensky at the Oval Office, Trump is stil making it clear that he is willing to forgive and forget if we can get a deal to end the war.
As Trump said, Zelenskyy really overplayed his hand, thinking he could renegotiate the deal he had cut by trying to shame and school Trump in front of the world. It was a horrible move, but Trump wants a deal, and if Zelenskyy backs down then the war can end.
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Zelenskyy's tweetstorm after the argument at the White House just made things worse. He maintained that Ukraine has a right not just to guarantees--which were actually implied in the minerals deal--but help in kicking Russia entirely out of Ukrainian territory including Crimea. That is his red line.
Red lines are fictions if you can't back them up. Europe won't back him up on that. Imagine France, Germany, and Great Britain sending troops to Ukraine to go toe to toe with Russia. Never going to happen. They know that the United States is the only country in the world that could possibly liberate Ukraine, and we are not going to risk a nuclear war for a strategically insignificant country. Ever.
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Europe right now cannot defend itself without the United States, and no snitfit will change that. Insulting the US and making irrational demands certainly won't change it.
The wonder is that after the disgraceful performance of Zelensky at the Oval Office, Trump is stil making it clear that he is willing to forgive and forget if we can get a deal to end the war.
As Trump said, Zelenskyy really overplayed his hand, thinking he could renegotiate the deal he had cut by trying to shame and school Trump in front of the world. It was a horrible move, but Trump wants a deal, and if Zelenskyy backs down then the war can end.
---------
Zelenskyy's tweetstorm after the argument at the White House just made things worse. He maintained that Ukraine has a right not just to guarantees--which were actually implied in the minerals deal--but help in kicking Russia entirely out of Ukrainian territory including Crimea. That is his red line.
Red lines are fictions if you can't back them up. Europe won't back him up on that. Imagine France, Germany, and Great Britain sending troops to Ukraine to go toe to toe with Russia. Never going to happen. They know that the United States is the only country in the world that could possibly liberate Ukraine, and we are not going to risk a nuclear war for a strategically insignificant country. Ever.
-----
Europe right now cannot defend itself without the United States, and no snitfit will change that. Insulting the US and making irrational demands certainly won't change it.
rightwinger
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Automatic NATO membership
2aguy
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rightwinger
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What did Zelensky do to shame and school Trump?
You list what Zelensky do to shame Trump?
List what Zelensky did and I will list what Trump and JD did
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
So the parts of Ukraine that Russia currently occupies would be NATO?
Or is this after we force Russia to leave Ukraine, by doing something you have yet to name?
2aguy
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He tried and failed......and got bitch slapped, and sent packing....he listened to the wrong people...he listened to the democrats and European left....and now he has nothing, and his country is in more danger with no way out....
Failzero
Platinum Member
When Lindsey Grahamnesty turned on him he realized that it’s potentially over
Yup, repubs are now Poootin supporters.
Failzero
Platinum Member
No RINOs are no longer 100% agreed on Warmongering
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