How is the US being "unfair" to Mexicans who want to get in?

Little-Acorn

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I keep running into weird argument after weird argument when the subject of illegal aliens is discussed. I'm beginning to think the people who want to eliminate immigration laws and open the borders, have NO rational arguments on their side.

Latest one seems to be, that laws limiting our immigrants are somehow "unfair" to those who don't get the chance to get in.

We built a country here, that everyone else wants to get into. We made laws saying only so many immigrants per year could get in. That's considered "unfair".

Suppose we had built a country instead, that was like, say, Mexico, whose people are risking death by the millions to cross deserts to get OUT of the country. And suppose we then made our country even worse than that somehow. Now NOBODY wants to get in. We set the same immigration quotas... but now they go unfilled because nobody wants to get in.

Are the quotas unfair now? I'd imagine the reconquistas would now say NO.

So what's the difference? Quotas are the same in either case. The only difference, is in one case we built an attractive, desireable country and we're UNFAIR. But in the other case we built a third-world-style shithole, and that makes us FAIR.

So, building a nice country people like enough to want to get in, is UNFAIR???

Tell me, what exactly did we do to the people outside, that was so unfair? If the land that's the United States had sunk under the sea a million years ago and the country we have today never existed, would present-day Mexicans have been better off?

By building a nice country and putting immigration quotas in place, we haven't done a THING to the people south of us. If there was nothing here at all, they still wouldn't have been able to move north.

So stop griping, you reconquista whiners. The only thing that's UNFAIR, is the way your own country is treating you. It's so bad there, that you are killing yourselves in droves trying to get out. Why don't you take your protests there, instead of biting the hand that treats it people right?

You have a country of your own. Don't blame us because you f*cked it up. And now that you've f*cked it up so badly, the LAST thing we want is for you to come here and try to run ours.

We'll let in a few hundred thousand a year, because that's how many we can handle and train to become Americans. And we want those immigrants to become Americans, not stay Mexican, because we don't want you to do to our country, what you've done to yours.

The problem is not that we want to take in a few hundred thousand. The problem is that you want to send millions. And please exuse me, but that's YOUR problem, not ours. You need to fix the reasons why millions want to flee your country and come to ours.

We fixed it here, as you immigrations desires prove. You'll have to fix the problem there. Or else you'll always have the problem, no matter what we do.
 

Annie

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I too agree. Problem with Mexico is the corrupt government, which they have never had to address since they seem in the business of exporting their citizens and criticizing the US immigration policies. Well I criticize those policies too, they are too often not enforced, especially at our southern border. Truth is, I'm not against letting others have a better life, I'm all for upping the numbers of Mexicans who can legally enter the country, what I am against is an open border with a country that very easily could be a staging area for enemies against our country, all they have to do is learn Spanish.

I saw a very good op-ed by Fred Thompson today, that addressed this and more broadly those that 'constantly complain' about America. You might wish to find that.
 

Gunny

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When we can provide opportunities for all Americans, THEN we can worry about others. Our immigration laws and the notion that this is the "land of opportunity" are as archaic as the Bronze Age.
 

Annie

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When we can provide opportunities for all Americans, THEN we can worry about others. Our immigration laws and the notion that this is the "land of opportunity" are as archaic as the Bronze Age.
What would be your recommendations?
 

Gunny

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What would be your recommendations?
Ah ... where to start ....:lol:

I'd start with a moritorium against immigration PERIOD until the situation was brought completely under control.

The Mexicans can whine, the UN can whine, the bleeding heart liberals can whine, the wealthy can whine .... I'd shut the US Mexico border down so tight a horny toad couldn't get across. It's our damned sovereign border, and all arguments to the contrary are nonsensical.

Then, the laws need to be completely rewritten. Our nation is overcrowded, our jobs being shipped overseas, we're losing our national identity and we have enough of a welfare state going on that we need to take care of our own nation, and let the world that hates us so much fend for itself.

That's EXACTLY what the rest of these nations are doing, but if we did it, we'd be villified for that too.

On the topic of illegal aliens alone, they're criminals, plain and simple. They violated the law by crossing the border. Round them up and ship them back.
 

Annie

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Ah ... where to start ....:lol:

I'd start with a moritorium against immigration PERIOD until the situation was brought completely under control.

The Mexicans can whine, the UN can whine, the bleeding heart liberals can whine, the wealthy can whine .... I'd shut the US Mexico border down so tight a horny toad couldn't get across. It's our damned sovereign border, and all arguments to the contrary are nonsensical.

Then, the laws need to be completely rewritten. Our nation is overcrowded, our jobs being shipped overseas, we're losing our national identity and we have enough of a welfare state going on that we need to take care of our own nation, and let the world that hates us so much fend for itself.

That's EXACTLY what the rest of these nations are doing, but if we did it, we'd be villified for that too.

On the topic of illegal aliens alone, they're criminals, plain and simple. They violated the law by crossing the border. Round them up and ship them back.
Overcrowded? http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...gov&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

This map, based on population estimates made in 2005, charts out the number of people in every square kilometer of the United States.

As has been the case historically, the most densely populated parts of the United States are east of the Mississippi River. Rings of decreasing population density radiate out from the major urban centers of New York, Philadelphia, and Washington along the East Coast. Other cities—Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, and Dallas—punctuate the map in the country’s interior. The west remains lightly populated except for clearly defined urban regions. Like their counterparts in the east, the largest cities in the west (San Diego and Los Angeles in the south; San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose farther north) hug the coast, with the densest populations in Southern California. Other large western cities readily visible here include Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, and Denver.

For Earth scientists, population density maps can be crucial in answering questions about the relationship between people and the environment. How does population density relate to changes in land cover? How are natural resources distributed in relation to population? How do densely populated regions, with their pollution, artificial surfaces, and urban heat islands, affect climate? To answer these and other questions, scientists compare detailed population maps to other geographically based data sets, including satellite data. In the comparison, trends that track the human footprint can emerge.

This particular population density map is based on a global population density map created at the Socioeconomic Data and Applications Center (SEDAC) at Columbia University. One of the Distributed Active Archive Centers in NASA’s Earth Observing System Data and Information System, SEDAC provides information about human interactions in the environment.
 

Annie

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Looks good on paper. Ever been to Wyoming or Idaho? There's a reason people don't live there. Hell, I don't know why they live in Chicago!;)

I'd freeze my butt off.
Why would anyone live in Boise? But they do. Hell of a lot better than Mexico City I'll bet, though I wouldn't swear to. :eusa_shhh:
 

Gunny

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Why would anyone live in Boise? But they do. Hell of a lot better than Mexico City I'll bet, though I wouldn't swear to. :eusa_shhh:
My point is your stats point to the Western US as sparsley populated. I was merely pointing out that there is a reason.

Isn't it a matter of perspective? I bet there are some folks in Darfur who think Mexico City is the Garden of Eden.
 

Annie

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My point is your stats point to the Western US as sparsley populated. I was merely pointing out that there is a reason.

Isn't it a matter of perspective? I bet there are some folks in Darfur who think Mexico City is the Garden of Eden.
Well there is an argument for us not getting involved in Sudan. Let Mexico do it.
 

Adam's Apple

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Nice post, Little-Acorn. A counter-question to the arguments we are hearing would be: How fair is it for the Mexicans to cross our borders illegally and circumvent our laws? This is the United States, not Mexico. They have no right to be here. The problems they have created for themselves are of their own making, and the sympathy expressed for their situation is not easily understood. Law breakers are law breakers, with no respect for the laws that govern civil societies.
 

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