How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's complicated as hell, because the effects of low-end wage increases are not linear. It's mostly an industry-specific issue, because wages represent significantly different percentages of overall business expense, based on the type of business we're talking about.

PLUS, minimum wage increases would also necessarily increase the wages and associated costs of those above minimum wage job descriptions, so the domino effect would be most likely be another significant piece of this puzzle.

At the same time, we have forces pushing in the opposite direction: It's impossible to (honestly) justify paying government benefits to someone who also has a full time job. That's effectively a government subsidy to employers, incentivizing them to keep wages low. And more critical and timely is the increasing wealth disparities in this country, which are only making the job easier for those who want higher and higher minimum wages. And their constituents vote.

As usual, both ends of this issue are keeping their arguments at about a third-grade level because they absolutely refuse to acknowledge the complexities inherent in it. Until we can -- if we can, at this point -- demonstrate that we fully understand the big picture, we'll just keep flopping around like we are.
.

Mac1958, how the concept of wage differentials can be applied in as complicated or as simple a manner as individual employers wish to apply it.
The concept of wage differentials is not a particular industry-specific, or government expenditures, or government subsidies, or wealth disparity, issues.

Yes, the concept is particularly related to job descriptions, and it's itself primarily an example of “domino effect” as applied in conjunction with the minimum wage rate. The minimum wage rate is a political issue.
Until I read ToddsterPatriot's post, I wasn't aware of wage differential concept being an issue to anyone. I greatly doubt if it's an issue among economists.

Respectfully, Supposn

I wasn't aware of wage differential concept being an issue to anyone.

I have an issue with the following.

If X = $2/ per Hr., the indefinite minimum wage rate would be $2/per Hr.
What's now a $20 per Hr rate was increased from $14.75 indefinite market-determined rate.

Post your proof that a $20/hr worker would only earn $14.75 if the minimum wage was $2.

If your proof is just your feelings, you can just admit there is no proof.

I greatly doubt if it's an issue among economists.​

If you have an economist who has more than a feeling about your claim, post it.​

 

[Supposn]

Toddsterpatriot, if denying the concept of supervisors earning higher wage rates than their crew members, doctors are better compensated than the hospital's janitors, (i.e. the concept of wage differentials), grants you more comfort, that's your choice; you can own it.

Hey, that's a heck of a strawman you built there.

Now, back to your unproven claim.....wait..... don't run away, again.

Toddsterpatriot, the legally defined and enforced federal minimum wage rate is enforced in all USA labor markets subject to those federal statutes. The minimum rate of those labor markets cannot be less than the federal minimum rate.

Due to the concept of wage differentials, all labor markets' wage rates are effected by their market's minimum rate.

You still haven't found a web site linking you to a credible economist, or any economist that refutes the concept of wage differentials? You know other than your concept of wage differentials due to the minimum wage rate are incorrect? But you've yet to find any credible economists, (or any economists) that agree with you; but you can keep trying.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Toddsterpatriot, if denying the concept of supervisors earning higher wage rates than their crew members, doctors are better compensated than the hospital's janitors, (i.e. the concept of wage differentials), grants you more comfort, that's your choice; you can own it.

Hey, that's a heck of a strawman you built there.

Now, back to your unproven claim.....wait..... don't run away, again.

Toddsterpatriot, the legally defined and enforced federal minimum wage rate is enforced in all USA labor markets subject to those federal statutes. The minimum rate of those labor markets cannot be less than the federal minimum rate.

Due to the concept of wage differentials, all labor markets' wage rates are effected by their market's minimum rate.

You still haven't found a web site linking you to a credible economist, or any economist that refutes the concept of wage differentials? You know other than your concept of wage differentials due to the minimum wage rate are incorrect? But you've yet to find any credible economists, (or any economists) that agree with you; but you can keep trying.

Respectfully, Supposn

Due to the concept of wage differentials, all labor markets' wage rates are effected by their market's minimum rate.

Without links to some real economists, I'm not going to accept your lonely premise.

You still haven't found a web site linking you to a credible economist, or any economist that refutes the concept of wage differentials?

You still haven't found a web site linking you to a credible economist, or any economist that backs up your claim that repealing the minimum wage would be a disaster for all workers?

Let alone for the $10 workers at McD's.

Why don't you try small, first?

If the local McD's needs to pay $10/hour, today, to staff the store, why would lowering, or eliminating, the $7.25 minimum wage, allow them to suddenly pay less than $10?

Try.

 

[Supposn]

Toddsterpatriot, ... Due to the concept of wage differentials, all labor markets' wage rates are effected by their market's minimum rate.

You still haven't found a web site linking you to a credible economist, or any economist that refutes the concept of wage differentials? You know other than your concept of wage differentials due to the minimum wage rate are incorrect? But you've yet to find any credible economists, (or any economists) that agree with you; but you can keep trying. Respectfully, Supposn

... Without links to some real economists, I'm not going to accept your lonely premise ....
... If the local McD's needs to pay $10/hour, today, to staff the store, why would lowering, or eliminating, the $7.25 minimum wage, allow them to suddenly pay less than $10?
Try.

Toddsterpatriot, lowering the federal minimum wage rate is not politically feasible, but the U.S. Congress effectively accomplishes that when they permit the purchasing power of the minimum rate to decline. It is then to nearly similar extent detrimental to the purchasing powers of all lower-wage rates which includes your $10/Hr. Rate. It is somewhat to a lesser extent detrimental to the purchasing powers of all middle-wage rates.

Due to changes of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power all other USA wage rates' purchasing powers generally change to no less of an extent, but the changes proportional to the job's rate is inversely related to the difference between the minimum and the job's rate.

The changes proportional to the job's rate, are greater for lower wage rates, and lesser for higher wage rates.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Toddsterpatriot, ... Due to the concept of wage differentials, all labor markets' wage rates are effected by their market's minimum rate.

You still haven't found a web site linking you to a credible economist, or any economist that refutes the concept of wage differentials? You know other than your concept of wage differentials due to the minimum wage rate are incorrect? But you've yet to find any credible economists, (or any economists) that agree with you; but you can keep trying. Respectfully, Supposn

... Without links to some real economists, I'm not going to accept your lonely premise ....
... If the local McD's needs to pay $10/hour, today, to staff the store, why would lowering, or eliminating, the $7.25 minimum wage, allow them to suddenly pay less than $10?
Try.

Toddsterpatriot, lowering the federal minimum wage rate is not politically feasible, but the U.S. Congress effectively accomplishes that when they permit the purchasing power of the minimum rate to decline. It is then to nearly similar extent detrimental to the purchasing powers of all lower-wage rates which includes your $10/Hr. Rate. It is somewhat to a lesser extent detrimental to the purchasing powers of all middle-wage rates.

Due to changes of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power all other USA wage rates' purchasing powers generally change to no less of an extent, but the changes proportional to the job's rate is inversely related to the difference between the minimum and the job's rate.

The changes proportional to the job's rate, are greater for lower wage rates, and lesser for higher wage rates.
Respectfully, Supposn

Thanks for admitting you have no backup for your premise.

 

[danielpalos]

increasing the minimum wage or solving for simple poverty puts an upward pressure on wages on an institutional basis.

 

[Supposn]

increasing the minimum wage or solving for simple poverty puts an upward pressure on wages on an institutional basis.

Danielpalos, I don't know what's meant by “on an institutional basis”? I do understand the concept of “wage differentials”.

Supply of labor, (as ToddsterPatriot posts), is a factor of wage differentials.
But regardless of surplus or scarcity of labor, due to wage differentials, crew leaders are better compensated than other crew members, and foremen receive higher wages than those people they supervise.

Due to wage differentials, when the federal minimum wage rate's increased, all lower wage and medium wage workers' wage rates are also generally increased.

Those other rate increases are generally of no less, and usually of greater extent than that of the minimum wage rate. The minimum rate's increase is generally proportionally greater than that of other rates. There's an inverse relationship between the proportional increase of jobs' rates and the differences between the job's and the minimum wage rate.
The minimum wage rate has a critical effect upon all other lower-wage rates and a substantial effect upon all medium rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

increasing the minimum wage or solving for simple poverty puts an upward pressure on wages on an institutional basis.

Danielpalos, I don't know what's meant by “on an institutional basis”? I do understand the concept of “wage differentials”.

Supply of labor, (as ToddsterPatriot posts), is a factor of wage differentials.
But regardless of surplus or scarcity of labor, due to wage differentials, crew leaders are better compensated than other crew members, and foremen receive higher wages than those people they supervise.

Due to wage differentials, when the federal minimum wage rate's increased, all lower wage and medium wage workers' wage rates are also generally increased.

Those other rate increases are generally of no less, and usually of greater extent than that of the minimum wage rate. The minimum rate's increase is generally proportionally greater than that of other rates. There's an inverse relationship between the proportional increase of jobs' rates and the differences between the job's and the minimum wage rate.
The minimum wage rate has a critical effect upon all other lower-wage rates and a substantial effect upon all medium rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

Due to wage differentials, when the federal minimum wage rate's increased, all lower wage and medium wage workers' wage rates are also generally increased.

Baloney.

 

[Supposn]

Due to wage differentials, when the federal minimum wage rate's increased, all lower wage and medium wage workers' wage rates are also generally increased.

Baloney.

ToddsterPatriot, as you point out, although I find links referring to the concept of wage differentials, I have not found a web link describing the wage differentials due to the minimum wage rate. But employers generally determine wage differentials in the described manner.

I contend their application of wage differentials is obvious, increasing lower rates impels employers to also increase those wages immediately above the increased lower wage rates. That's also implied by the concepts of wage differentials.

You do not accept any of this but have not been able to cite any economists, (any credible or otherwise economist) that refutes the concept of wage differentials.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Due to wage differentials, when the federal minimum wage rate's increased, all lower wage and medium wage workers' wage rates are also generally increased.

Baloney.

ToddsterPatriot, as you point out, although I find links referring to the concept of wage differentials, I have not found a web link describing the wage differentials due to the minimum wage rate. But employers generally determine wage differentials in the described manner.

I contend their application of wage differentials is obvious, increasing lower rates impels employers to also increase those wages immediately above the increased lower wage rates. That's also implied by the concepts of wage differentials.

You do not accept any of this but have not been able to cite any economists, (any credible or otherwise economist) that refutes the concept of wage differentials.

Respectfully, Supposn

If you can't show how eliminating the $7.25 minimum wage would harm the $10/hr workers I've cited, why would anyone believe your claim that all workers would be harmed?

Admit it, you're posting your feelings not facts.

 

[Supposn]

If you can't show how eliminating the $7.25 minimum wage would harm the $10/hr workers I've cited, why would anyone believe your claim that all workers would be harmed?

Admit it, you're posting your feelings not facts.

Toddsterpatriot, I have done so. You do not accept any of this but have not been able to cite any economists, (any credible or otherwise economist) that refutes the concept of wage differentials.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[danielpalos]

increasing the minimum wage or solving for simple poverty puts an upward pressure on wages on an institutional basis.

Danielpalos, I don't know what's meant by “on an institutional basis”? I do understand the concept of “wage differentials”.

Supply of labor, (as ToddsterPatriot posts), is a factor of wage differentials.
But regardless of surplus or scarcity of labor, due to wage differentials, crew leaders are better compensated than other crew members, and foremen receive higher wages than those people they supervise.

Due to wage differentials, when the federal minimum wage rate's increased, all lower wage and medium wage workers' wage rates are also generally increased.

Those other rate increases are generally of no less, and usually of greater extent than that of the minimum wage rate. The minimum rate's increase is generally proportionally greater than that of other rates. There's an inverse relationship between the proportional increase of jobs' rates and the differences between the job's and the minimum wage rate.
The minimum wage rate has a critical effect upon all other lower-wage rates and a substantial effect upon all medium rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

if you want to look at that way, it is a simple, cost of living adjustment. a first world economy Costs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you can't show how eliminating the $7.25 minimum wage would harm the $10/hr workers I've cited, why would anyone believe your claim that all workers would be harmed?

Admit it, you're posting your feelings not facts.

Toddsterpatriot, I have done so. You do not accept any of this but have not been able to cite any economists, (any credible or otherwise economist) that refutes the concept of wage differentials.

Respectfully, Supposn

No, you really haven't.

You made a claim, you need to cite economists that back your claim.

I don't need to cite anyone.

Yes, there are "wage differentials".
That's not proof that a wage that less than 2% of workers earn impacts 100% of workers.

 

[Supposn]

... Yes, there are "wage differentials".

That's not proof that a wage that less than 2% of workers earn impacts 100% of workers.

ToddsterPatriot, I suppose you missed reading post # 82 because it was addressed to Daniel Palos? Respectfully, Supposn

... ''Danielpalos, ... I do understand the concept of “wage differentials”. Supply of labor, (as ToddsterPatriot posts), is a factor of wage differentials.

But regardless of surplus or scarcity of labor, due to wage differentials, crew leaders are better compensated than other crew members, and foremen receive higher wages than those people they supervise.

Due to wage differentials, when the federal minimum wage rate's increased, all lower wage and medium wage workers' wage rates are also generally increased. ...
... The minimum wage rate has a critical effect upon all other lower-wage rates and a substantial effect upon all medium rates.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... Yes, there are "wage differentials".

That's not proof that a wage that less than 2% of workers earn impacts 100% of workers.

ToddsterPatriot, I suppose you missed reading post # 82 because it was addressed to Daniel Palos? Respectfully, Supposn

... ''Danielpalos, ... I do understand the concept of “wage differentials”. Supply of labor, (as ToddsterPatriot posts), is a factor of wage differentials.

But regardless of surplus or scarcity of labor, due to wage differentials, crew leaders are better compensated than other crew members, and foremen receive higher wages than those people they supervise.

Due to wage differentials, when the federal minimum wage rate's increased, all lower wage and medium wage workers' wage rates are also generally increased. ...
... The minimum wage rate has a critical effect upon all other lower-wage rates and a substantial effect upon all medium rates.

The only post from you that I haven't seen is the one where you posted proof of your claims.

 

[Supposn]

Yes, there are "wage differentials".
That's not proof that a wage that less than 2% of workers earn impacts 100% of workers.

Toddsterpatriot, among lower-wage earners are the small minority of those earning precisely $7.25 per hour.

The minimum wage rate has a critical effect upon ALL other lower-wage rates and a substantial effect upon all medium rates. I suppose Lower and medium wage earners are a greater than 40% of USA's entire labor forces. I also suppose lower earners outnumber higher wage earners.

Your reference to "2% of workers" is nonsense. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[danielpalos]

Here is the "differential" we are trying to correct for:

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, there are "wage differentials".
That's not proof that a wage that less than 2% of workers earn impacts 100% of workers.

Toddsterpatriot, among lower-wage earners are the small minority of those earning precisely $7.25 per hour.

The minimum wage rate has a critical effect upon ALL other lower-wage rates and a substantial effect upon all medium rates. I suppose Lower and medium wage earners are a greater than 40% of USA's entire labor forces. I also suppose lower earners outnumber higher wage earners.

Your reference to "2% of workers" is nonsense. Respectfully, Supposn

The minimum wage rate has a critical effect upon ALL other lower-wage rates and a substantial effect upon all medium rates.

Prove it.

Your reference to "2% of workers" is nonsense.

2.2 million workers, in 2016 made the minimum wage of less.
I rounded up to 2%.

Now, about the proof you never posted...............

 

[Supposn]

Here is the "differential" we are trying to correct for:

Danielpalos, wealth inequality in America is a matter of no concern.​

Unjustifiable wealth differentials are consequences of problems. I certainly do not desire for any justifiable wealth disparities to be "fixed".

I'm concerned about the wealth's ability to buy political elections. Regardless of how wealth was accumulated, or what individuals, organizations, or corporations wield their wealth to influence votes, we must protect the integrity of our election processes.

I'm not particularly concerned about foreigners attempting to influence USA voters. I'm more concerned about we voters failing to exercise our own independent judgments.
Too many of us have determined others know our best interests better. Others are eager to exercise their judgment in place of our own. Immediately or sometime later, (i.e. now or eventually), but certainly their best interests and ours will differ. After surrendering our right or denying our obligations to think, later thoughts may be of no consequence.

Others wealth does not concern me, but the poverty of others endanger our democratic republic.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

2.2 million workers, in 2016 made the minimum wage of less.
I rounded up to 2%. Now, about the proof you never posted...............

Toddsterpatriot, regardless if 2.2. million or only one USA employee earns $7.25 per hour is not consequential to the federal minimum wage rate's critical effects upon all of USA's lower-wage, and substantial effects upon medium-wage rates.

regardless if you agree or disagree, due to wage differentials, crew leaders are generally better compensated than other crew members, and foremen receive higher wages than those people they supervise.

Usually prior to the enactment of a federal minimum wage increase, almost all USA employers increase the rates of all employees earning less than the soon to be enacted updated minimum rate.

Although employers are not legally bound to do so, due to the concept of wage differentials, (statistically) all employers apparently believe it's to their best interest to similarly increase all of their low-wage employees' wage rates. The same self-interests leads them to increase their medium-wage rates.

Although in reaction to the minimum rate increase, higher wage rates will generally receive greater extents of increases, the increases for lower-rates will actually be proportionally greater, and for higher wage rates proportionally lesser increases. The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage is of maximum benefit to the working poor, and of some, but of extremely lesser benefit to higher wage rate employees.

Regardless of you accept or refute any of this, regardless if I have or have not proved it to your satisfaction, all of this that I described was and has remained true.
Respectfully, Supposn