How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

[Toddsterpatriot]

... My argument is that the Federal Minimum Wage should be eliminated. ...

Toddsterpatriot, do you advocate anything to replace it; for example, a state's minimum wage rate? If not that, what? Respectfully, Supposn

I don't think there should be any, but a state is free to make a stupid law if they'd like.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I suppose the employer pays $10 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees. What's your point?

You claim that the minimum wage effects every single worker in the US.
How does the minimum wage effect the workers at my local McDs who earn $10/hr to start with zero experience?
Be specific. Prove your point.

Toddsterpatriot, I answered your question within post #35. Transcript of post #35:

... How do wage differentials allow unskilled workers with zero experience to earn $3 more than minimum wage? ... It doesn't appear to affect the wages I'm discussing. Not even a tiny bit.

The minimum wage rate is applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

If the employer would be satisfied with the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task, the employer would have offered no more than $7.25 /Hr.

The employer pays $10.25 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees that the employer hopes will be better motivated to show up and do their jobs. Employers are not generally altruistic. Respectfully, Supposn

The employer is required to pay no less than the $7.25/Hr. Minimum rate.

Everything above that is left to the employer's discretion. Due to the economic concept of wage differentials, employers are motivated to pay more than the minimum rate.
Respectfully, Supposn

The employer is required to pay no less than the $7.25/Hr. Minimum rate.

Right.

Now answer my question. You said the minimum wage impacts every single worker.

How does it impact these $10/hr workers?

How would it be a disaster for these $10/hr workers if the minimum wage law was repealed?

Due to the economic concept of wage differentials, employers are motivated to pay more than the minimum rate.

Due to supply and demand, they're motivated to pay $10/hr. The minimum wage has zero effect. Right?

 

[Supposn]

The employer is required to pay no less than the $7.25/Hr. Minimum rate.
Right.

Now answer my question. You said the minimum wage impacts every single worker.
How does it impact these $10/hr workers?
How would it be a disaster for these $10/hr workers if the minimum wage law was repealed?

Due to the economic concept of wage differentials, employers are motivated to pay more than the minimum rate.
Due to supply and demand, they're motivated to pay $10/hr. The minimum wage has zero effect. Right?

Toddsterpatriot, wrong; supply and demand to fill specific jobs are certainly a factor of wage rates. If there's a scarcity of talented or otherwise desired laborers for some jobs, that rather than the minimum wage will have a greater effect upon wage rates for those jobs.

But scarcity or surplus of labor is just an additional factor that's considered when determining wage differentials.
Even if there were perfect balances between availability of labor for any types of jobs, there would still be wage differentials between jobs and between employees. Doctors don't work for the same wage rates as cleaning ladies. Proficient programmer/analysts are paid more than people that can only create code from a flowchart provided to them.

The minimum wage rate sets a floor beyond which wages cannot pass. All other than precisely the exact minimum rate, are standing on the shoulders of the minimum rate.

When the minimum is increased, (due to wage differentials) all other rates are increased, but lower rates are increased more, and higher rates are increased less in proportion to their consequential wage rate.

To the extent of the minimum rate's purchasing power, it particularly bolsters lower wage rates. Among lower wage rates, it particularly reduces the extents and incidences of poverty among the working poor.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The employer is required to pay no less than the $7.25/Hr. Minimum rate.
Right.

Now answer my question. You said the minimum wage impacts every single worker.
How does it impact these $10/hr workers?
How would it be a disaster for these $10/hr workers if the minimum wage law was repealed?

Due to the economic concept of wage differentials, employers are motivated to pay more than the minimum rate.
Due to supply and demand, they're motivated to pay $10/hr. The minimum wage has zero effect. Right?

Toddsterpatriot, wrong; supply and demand to fill specific jobs are certainly a factor of wage rates. If there's a scarcity of talented or otherwise desired laborers for some jobs, that rather than the minimum wage will have a greater effect upon wage rates for those jobs.

But scarcity or surplus of labor is just an additional factor that's considered when determining wage differentials.
Even if there were perfect balances between availability of labor for any types of jobs, there would still be wage differentials between jobs and between employees. Doctors don't work for the same wage rates as cleaning ladies. Proficient programmer/analysts are paid more than people that can only create code from a flowchart provided to them.

The minimum wage rate sets a floor beyond which wages cannot pass. All other than precisely the exact minimum rate, are standing on the shoulders of the minimum rate.

When the minimum is increased, (due to wage differentials) all other rates are increased, but lower rates are increased more, and higher rates are increased less in proportion to their consequential wage rate.

To the extent of the minimum rate's purchasing power, it particularly bolsters lower wage rates. Among lower wage rates, it particularly reduces the extents and incidences of poverty among the working poor.

Respectfully, Supposn

The minimum wage rate sets a floor beyond which wages cannot pass. All other than precisely the exact minimum rate, are standing on the shoulders of the minimum rate.

If that were true, you'd have shown the impact eliminating the minimum wage would have on these unskilled, unexperienced workers at McDonald's the first time I asked......instead of avoiding the question.

You've said eliminating the MW would be a disaster for ALL WORKERS in the US.
Start small. Show how it would be a disaster at my local McD's.

 

[Supposn]

... You've said eliminating the MW would be a disaster for ALL WORKERS in the US.
Start small. Show how it would be a disaster at my local McD's.

Toddsterpatriot, to begin, the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.
If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would theoretically emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets. Can we agree upon that?
(minimum wage rate is defined in this post's first line).
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... You've said eliminating the MW would be a disaster for ALL WORKERS in the US.
Start small. Show how it would be a disaster at my local McD's.

Toddsterpatriot, to begin, the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.
If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets. Can you agree to that? Respectfully, Supposn

the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

And as my example showed, it has no effect on at least 100 million US workers.

If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets.

Please define the underlined.

 

[Supposn]

... You've said eliminating the MW would be a disaster for ALL WORKERS in the US.
Start small. Show how it would be a disaster at my local McD's.

Toddsterpatriot, to begin, the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.
If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets. Can you agree to that? Respectfully, Supposn

the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

And as my example showed, it has no effect on at least 100 million US workers.

If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets.

Please define the underlined.

Toddsterpatriot, the minimum wage rate was defined in post #45's first line.

Example for 100 million US workers?

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... You've said eliminating the MW would be a disaster for ALL WORKERS in the US.
Start small. Show how it would be a disaster at my local McD's.

Toddsterpatriot, to begin, the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.
If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets. Can you agree to that? Respectfully, Supposn

the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

And as my example showed, it has no effect on at least 100 million US workers.

If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets.

Please define the underlined.

Toddsterpatriot, the minimum wage rate was defined in post #45's first line.

Example for 100 million US workers?

Respectfully, Supposn

the minimum wage rate was defined in post #45's first line.

Great, now define the underlined.

If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would theoretically emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets.

 

[Supposn]

the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task. ...
… If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets.

Please define the underlined.

... You've said eliminating the MW would be a disaster for ALL WORKERS in the US.

Start small. Show how it would be a disaster at my local McD's.

Toddsterpatriot, to begin, the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would theoretically emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets. Can we agree upon that?

(minimum wage rate is defined in this post's first line).

Respectfully, Supposn

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Excerpted from Definition of effectively | Dictionary.com :
adjective
(1) adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result: effective teaching methods; effective steps toward peace.
(2) actually in operation or in force; functioning: The law becomes effective at midnight.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Excerpted from Definition of indefinite | Dictionary.com :
adjective
(1) not definite; without fixed or specified limit; unlimited: an indefinite number.
(2)not clearly defined or determined; not precise or exact: an indefinite boundary; an indefinite date in the future.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Excerpted from Definition of minimum | Dictionary.com :
noun, plural min·i·mums, min·i·ma [min-uh-muh] .
(1) the least quantity or amount possible, assignable, allowable, or the like.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Excerpted from Definition of wage | Dictionary.com :
noun

1. Often wages. money that is paid or received for work or services, as by the hour, day, or week.Compare living wage, minimum wage. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Excerpted from Definition of rate | Dictionary.com :

noun
(1) the amount of a charge or payment with reference to some basis of calculation: a high rate of interest on loans.
(2) a certain quantity or amount of one thing considered in relation to a unit of another thing and used as a standard or measure: at the rate of 60 miles an hour.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task. ...
… If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets.

Please define the underlined.

... You've said eliminating the MW would be a disaster for ALL WORKERS in the US.

Start small. Show how it would be a disaster at my local McD's.

Toddsterpatriot, to begin, the minimum wage rate's applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would theoretically emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets. Can we agree upon that?

(minimum wage rate is defined in this post's first line).

Respectfully, Supposn

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Excerpted from Definition of effectively | Dictionary.com :
adjective
(1) adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result: effective teaching methods; effective steps toward peace.
(2) actually in operation or in force; functioning: The law becomes effective at midnight.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Excerpted from Definition of indefinite | Dictionary.com :
adjective
(1) not definite; without fixed or specified limit; unlimited: an indefinite number.
(2)not clearly defined or determined; not precise or exact: an indefinite boundary; an indefinite date in the future.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Excerpted from Definition of minimum | Dictionary.com :
noun, plural min·i·mums, min·i·ma [min-uh-muh] .
(1) the least quantity or amount possible, assignable, allowable, or the like.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Excerpted from Definition of wage | Dictionary.com :
noun

1. Often wages. money that is paid or received for work or services, as by the hour, day, or week.Compare living wage, minimum wage. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Excerpted from Definition of rate | Dictionary.com :

noun
(1) the amount of a charge or payment with reference to some basis of calculation: a high rate of interest on loans.
(2) a certain quantity or amount of one thing considered in relation to a unit of another thing and used as a standard or measure: at the rate of 60 miles an hour.

Yes, in every market there would be an effectively indefinite minimum wage.

Now, about the workers who aren't impacted by the minimum wage now...…….

 

[Supposn]

Toddsterpatriot, I have complied to your request and provided you definitions of what a market's minimum wage rate is applicable to, and the words “effectively”, ” indefinite”, “minimum”, “wage”, and “rate”.

Why are you unable to agree or disagree If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would theoretically emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets?

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Toddsterpatriot, I have complied to your request and provided you definitions of what a market's minimum wage rate is applicable to, and the words “effectively”, ” indefinite”, “minimum”, “wage”, and “rate”.

Why are you unable to agree or disagree If we eliminated the legally enforced definite minimum wage rate, there would theoretically emerge an effectively indefinite minimum wage rate within each of USA's labor markets?

Respectfully, Supposn

How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

The elimination of the minimum wage would not impact the $10/hr workers at my local McD's.

Do you agree?

 

[Supposn]

View attachment 271032
How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

The elimination of the minimum wage would not impact the $10/hr workers at my local McD's.

Do you agree?

Toddsterpatriot, I contend currently, the federal minimum wage rate very substantially impacts all USA's lower wage rates, (i.e. the bottom 2/5 of USA's full-time employees earning lower wage rates).
Among USA's lower wage rate earners, the minimum rate's of critical importance to the working poor.

... Your first post was filled with gibberish, so I ignored it. ...

You will not understand the minimum wage's effects if you do not wish to consider the concepts discussed within this thread's first post.
Respectfully, Supposn​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

View attachment 271032
How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

The elimination of the minimum wage would not impact the $10/hr workers at my local McD's.

Do you agree?

Toddsterpatriot, I contend currently, the federal minimum wage rate very substantially impacts all USA's lower wage rates, (i.e. the bottom 2/5 of USA's full-time employees earning lower wage rates).
Among USA's lower wage rate earners, the minimum rate's of critical importance to the working poor.

... Your first post was filled with gibberish, so I ignored it. ...

You will not understand the minimum wage's effects if you do not wish to consider the concepts discussed within this thread's first post.
Respectfully, Supposn​

Toddsterpatriot, I contend currently, the federal minimum wage rate very substantially impacts all USA's lower wage rates,

Prove your contention.

 

[Supposn]

Toddsterpatriot, I contend currently, the federal minimum wage rate very substantially impacts all USA's lower wage rates,

Prove your contention.

Toddsterpatriot, if you do not wish to consider the concepts discussed within this thread's first post, it cannot be proved to you.
What was it within the first post that you couldn't comprehend?

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[otto105]

How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

If the theoretical indefinite U.S. markets' determined minimum wage rate is $5/per Hr,
If X = $5/per Hr; ($7.25 -X)/per Hr. = is the difference between the federal and market's minimum rates.
Difference between the federal and market's minimum rates = $2.25
What's now a $20 per Hr rate was increased from $17.75 indefinite market-determined rate.

If X = $2/ per Hr., the indefinite minimum wage rate would be $2/per Hr.
What's now a $20 per Hr rate was increased from $14.75 indefinite market-determined rate.

When the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate is increased, employers are not legally required to modify all other wage rates, but in aggregate they actually do so.

Due to the economic concept of wage differential, if an employer fails to update their other wage rates, they will have difficulties recruiting and retaining employees. Employers are generally compelled to react immediately in the cases of their lower-wage rates, and slower in cases of higher wage rates.

Although in reaction to the minimum rate increase, higher wage rates will generally receive greater extents of increases, the increases for lower-rates will actually be proportionally greater, and for higher wage rates proportionally lesser increases of their employees' wage rates.
The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage is of maximum benefit to the working poor, and of some, but extremely lesser benefit to higher wage rates.

The federal minimum wage rate reduces USA's incidences and extents of poverty among USA's working-poor.
Respectfully, Supposn

The Congressional Budget Office predicted that as many as 3.7 million jobs could be lost if they raise the MW to $15/hr.
So Democrats start calling for it.
Any questions?

The CBO report also stated the a change to $15 MW could have no affect on jobs, so ....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Toddsterpatriot, I contend currently, the federal minimum wage rate very substantially impacts all USA's lower wage rates,

Prove your contention.

Toddsterpatriot, if you do not wish to consider the concepts discussed within this thread's first post, it cannot be proved to you.
What was it within the first post that you couldn't comprehend?

Respectfully, Supposn

if you do not wish to consider the concepts discussed within this thread's first post, it cannot be proved to you.

Your first post was full of gibberish.
The fact that an individual low skilled worker gets $7.25 instead of $5, because of the FMW, is not proof that a $17.75 worker will get $20 because of the FMW.

If the FMW ($7.25) goes up to $8.25 that doesn't mean the $10 workers at my local McD's will
suddenly get a $1/hr raise, or any raise at all. If you have proof otherwise, post it.


If you have proof that dropping the $7.25 FMW to $6.25 will reduce the $10/hr wage I saw, post it.
If you post your proof, I'll be happy to point out any flaws I spot.

 

[mudwhistle]

How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

If the theoretical indefinite U.S. markets' determined minimum wage rate is $5/per Hr,
If X = $5/per Hr; ($7.25 -X)/per Hr. = is the difference between the federal and market's minimum rates.
Difference between the federal and market's minimum rates = $2.25
What's now a $20 per Hr rate was increased from $17.75 indefinite market-determined rate.

If X = $2/ per Hr., the indefinite minimum wage rate would be $2/per Hr.
What's now a $20 per Hr rate was increased from $14.75 indefinite market-determined rate.

When the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate is increased, employers are not legally required to modify all other wage rates, but in aggregate they actually do so.

Due to the economic concept of wage differential, if an employer fails to update their other wage rates, they will have difficulties recruiting and retaining employees. Employers are generally compelled to react immediately in the cases of their lower-wage rates, and slower in cases of higher wage rates.

Although in reaction to the minimum rate increase, higher wage rates will generally receive greater extents of increases, the increases for lower-rates will actually be proportionally greater, and for higher wage rates proportionally lesser increases of their employees' wage rates.
The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage is of maximum benefit to the working poor, and of some, but extremely lesser benefit to higher wage rates.

The federal minimum wage rate reduces USA's incidences and extents of poverty among USA's working-poor.
Respectfully, Supposn

The Congressional Budget Office predicted that as many as 3.7 million jobs could be lost if they raise the MW to $15/hr.
So Democrats start calling for it.
Any questions?

The CBO report also stated the a change to $15 MW could have no affect on jobs, so ....

I'm sure you'll agree with that regardless of the fact that we all know from history that's utter BS.

 

[Supposn]

The Congressional Budget Office predicted that as many as 3.7 million jobs could be lost if they raise the MW to $15/hr.
So Democrats start calling for it.
Any questions?

The CBO report also stated a change to $15 MW could have no affect on jobs, so ....

Otto105 and Mudwhistle, you guys and Republicans read the Congressional Budget Office' report as indicating increasing the minimum rate to be economically detrimental, I and Democrats read that same report to indicate the increases would be economically advantageous to our nation. The CBO report is not a decisively definitive report.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

Toddsterpatriot, I must go now. I'll pick continue this later tonight. Respectfully, Supposn