How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

[Dekster]

Respectfully, Supposn​

This works if you live in a high tax state.
Prices are intentionally inflated by goverent thru tax increases. Those on fixed incomes have to leave the state or file for government assistance. This is how blue states control voters. Raising the MW causes inflation. It's a never ending cycle.

But inflation reduces the burden of public debt which is why they really do it--it generates more tax revenue in terms of just less valuable dollars and therefore makes it easier to service past debt.

But inflation reduces the burden of public debt which is why they really do it--it generates more tax revenue in terms of just less valuable dollars

Federal taxes are indexed for inflation.

We weren't discussing federal income tax. We were discussing blue states.

California raises the minimum wage to create inflation to make it easier to pay down their debt?

Sounds complicated.

If a Californian makes twice as much then California collects twice as much income tax and twice as much sales tax which they use to pay off debt and spend even more money on silly shit. Otherwise they would get no new toys and would have to cut their budget to service their debt as other operating costs creep up. Otherwise they would be pricing their poor folks out of the poverty level for federal programs and reducing their cut of the federal pie.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This works if you live in a high tax state.
Prices are intentionally inflated by goverent thru tax increases. Those on fixed incomes have to leave the state or file for government assistance. This is how blue states control voters. Raising the MW causes inflation. It's a never ending cycle.

But inflation reduces the burden of public debt which is why they really do it--it generates more tax revenue in terms of just less valuable dollars and therefore makes it easier to service past debt.

But inflation reduces the burden of public debt which is why they really do it--it generates more tax revenue in terms of just less valuable dollars

Federal taxes are indexed for inflation.

We weren't discussing federal income tax. We were discussing blue states.

California raises the minimum wage to create inflation to make it easier to pay down their debt?

Sounds complicated.

If a Californian makes twice as much then California collects twice as much income tax and twice as much sales tax which they use to pay off debt and spend even more money on silly shit. Otherwise they would get no new toys and would have to cut their budget to service their debt as other operating costs creep up. Otherwise they would be pricing their poor folks out of the poverty level for federal programs and reducing their cut of the federal pie.

If a Californian makes twice as much then California collects twice as much income tax

More than twice, their income tax is progressive.

California Income Tax Brackets 2019

and twice as much sales tax

Not everyone would buy twice as much stuff when their income doubles.

 

[Andylusion]

How does the federal minimum wage rate effect all USA wage rates?

If the theoretical indefinite U.S. markets' determined minimum wage rate is $5/per Hr,
If X = $5/per Hr; ($7.25 -X)/per Hr. = is the difference between the federal and market's minimum rates.
Difference between the federal and market's minimum rates = $2.25
What's now a $20 per Hr rate was increased from $17.75 indefinite market-determined rate.

If X = $2/ per Hr., the indefinite minimum wage rate would be $2/per Hr.
What's now a $20 per Hr rate was increased from $14.75 indefinite market-determined rate.

When the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate is increased, employers are not legally required to modify all other wage rates, but in aggregate they actually do so.

Due to the economic concept of wage differential, if an employer fails to update their other wage rates, they will have difficulties recruiting and retaining employees. Employers are generally compelled to react immediately in the cases of their lower-wage rates, and slower in cases of higher wage rates.

Although in reaction to the minimum rate increase, higher wage rates will generally receive greater extents of increases, the increases for lower-rates will actually be proportionally greater, and for higher wage rates proportionally lesser increases of their employees' wage rates.
The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage is of maximum benefit to the working poor, and of some, but extremely lesser benefit to higher wage rates.

The federal minimum wage rate reduces USA's incidences and extents of poverty among USA's working-poor.
Respectfully, Supposn

Er... no. That is not true.

Here's the problem... at all levels of income, that cost has to be passed onto to someone. Someone has to pay the bill.

So for example... In Denmark, a big mac meal is $14. Which make sense given the average McDonald's worker is getting paid $15 to $16.

In other words, the high cost of the labor, is past on in the high cost of the products and services.

Now I don't know about you... but logically as prices go up, you buy less of something. The higher cost of eating out has resulted in me going out to eat less. Specifically I used to patron Chipotle a ton, back when a chicken burrito was $4.50. Now at $6.70, I do not go there as much.

Now over a broad time frame this results in lower employment.

The number of McDonald's in Denmark is extremely low compared to the US, and typically the few McDonald's that exist in Denmark, are general in tourists areas, where all food is more expensive.

Why? Because the average Denmark citizen isn't going to pay $14 for a meal at McDonald's. Not because they don't like the food, but rather because it is too expensive.

Of course in Denmark, it is perfectly fine to have fewer McDonald's jobs around, because the labor market for unskilled labor, is pretty low. They don't need tons of low-skill/no-skill jobs. People are not looking for those types of jobs.

But in the US where we have a massive amounts of unskilled labor, driving out those jobs will harm people who need them.

And this should be self evident.

If you raise the minimum wage to $15/hour... then that means that a shift manager, would have to be paid more than $15, or they wouldn't do the job. A store manager would have to be paid significantly more than that.

Then you have me, at a warehouse across the city, why would I work here, driving an hour to get here, if I could earn more money at a store 2 minutes from my house?

So now my company would have to pay more to get employees, which would in turn, require that we raise prices to our customers, who would then find imported products to be more practical alternatives. Now they end up buying from Mexico, or China, or Canada, rather than from a US producer.

Then you complain that jobs are moving out of the country, and poor people can find jobs.

Whose fault is that? Yours with your minimum wage hike.

 

[Supposn]

... How many full-time minimum wage workers are there again?

Toddsterpatriot, I suppose there may be some that continue to believe the world is not a global planet, or are there Holocaust deniers, or believe Darwin's concept of evolution is nonsense.

There are those that deny the economic concept of wage differentials, and the minimum wage rate's effect upon all other wage rates, and its particularly substantial effects upon all wage rates that fall within the bracket of the lowest wage earners, (i.e. the working poor).

How many persons earn precisely the $7.25 is inconsequential. What's of consequences is how many, or what proportion of USA employees are the working poor? What proportion of them are full-time employees, or would prefer to be full-time employees if they could obtain full-time employment they could afford to commute to?
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... How many full-time minimum wage workers are there again?

Toddsterpatriot, I suppose there may be some that continue to believe the world is not a global planet, or are there Holocaust deniers, or believe Darwin's concept of evolution is nonsense.

There are those that deny the economic concept of wage differentials, and the minimum wage rate's effect upon all other wage rates, and its particularly substantial effects upon all wage rates that fall within the bracket of the lowest wage earners, (i.e. the working poor).

How many persons earn precisely the $7.25 is inconsequential. What's of consequences is how many, or what proportion of USA employees are the working poor? What proportion of them are full-time employees, or would prefer to be full-time employees if they could obtain full-time employment they could afford to commute to?
Respectfully, Supposn

How many persons earn precisely the $7.25 is inconsequential.

WHY?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... How many full-time minimum wage workers are there again?

Toddsterpatriot, I suppose there may be some that continue to believe the world is not a global planet, or are there Holocaust deniers, or believe Darwin's concept of evolution is nonsense.

There are those that deny the economic concept of wage differentials, and the minimum wage rate's effect upon all other wage rates, and its particularly substantial effects upon all wage rates that fall within the bracket of the lowest wage earners, (i.e. the working poor).

How many persons earn precisely the $7.25 is inconsequential. What's of consequences is how many, or what proportion of USA employees are the working poor? What proportion of them are full-time employees, or would prefer to be full-time employees if they could obtain full-time employment they could afford to commute to?
Respectfully, Supposn

There are those that deny the economic concept of wage differentials, and the minimum wage rate's effect upon all other wage rates,

A local McDonald's pays $10 an hour, to start, no experience needed.
How does the minimum wage rate effect those workers?

Be specific.

 

[Supposn]

It's impossible to (honestly) justify paying government benefits to someone who also has a full time job. That's effectively a government subsidy to employers, incentivizing them to keep wages low.\

I've read that these benefits actually raise the cost of the employers.
If your benefits are the equivalent of $8 an hour, would you accept a job at $9 an hour?
Or would it take $10, $11 or more an hour to get you to give up your work-free benefits?

Toddsterpatriot, we were discussing employees that qualified for public assistance. How does that directly increase costs to employers?

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's impossible to (honestly) justify paying government benefits to someone who also has a full time job. That's effectively a government subsidy to employers, incentivizing them to keep wages low.\

I've read that these benefits actually raise the cost of the employers.
If your benefits are the equivalent of $8 an hour, would you accept a job at $9 an hour?
Or would it take $10, $11 or more an hour to get you to give up your work-free benefits?

Toddsterpatriot, we were discussing employees that qualified for public assistance. How does that directly increase costs to employers?

Respectfully, Supposn

How does that directly increase costs to employers?

How much does an employer have to offer to compete with $8/hour in government benefits?

Do employers have to offer more in areas of high benefits or in areas with zero government benefits?

 

[Supposn]

How many persons earn precisely the $7.25 is inconsequential.

WHY?

Toddsterpatriot, because due to the concept of wage differentials, the federal minimum wage rate critically affects all USA's working-poor wage rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How many persons earn precisely the $7.25 is inconsequential.

WHY?

Toddsterpatriot, because due to the concept of wage differentials, the federal minimum wage rate critically affects all USA's working-poor wage rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

because due to the concept of wage differentials,

How do wage differentials allow unskilled workers with zero experience to earn $3 more than minimum wage?

the federal minimum wage rate critically affects all USA's working-poor wage rates.

It doesn't appear to affect the wages I'm discussing. Not even a tiny bit.

 

[Supposn]

... How much does an employer have to offer to compete with $8/hour in government benefits?

Do employers have to offer more in areas of high benefits or in areas with zero government benefits?

Toddsterpatriot, government is providing public assistance to individuals or families on an hourly rate?
Employers do whatever they perceive to be in their own best interests. We're discussing what our government should do in our nation's best interests.

I advocate our federal government should increase the minimum wage rate by 12.5% of its purchasing power until it attains 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power. Thereafter the rate should be monitored and annually adjusted to retain that purchasing power.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... How much does an employer have to offer to compete with $8/hour in government benefits?

Do employers have to offer more in areas of high benefits or in areas with zero government benefits?

Toddsterpatriot, government is providing public assistance to individuals or families on an hourly rate?
Employers do whatever they perceive to be in their own best interests. We're discussing what our government should do in our nation's best interests.

I advocate our federal government should increase the minimum wage rate by 12.5% of its purchasing power until it attains 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power. Thereafter the rate should be monitored and annually adjusted to retain that purchasing power.

Respectfully, Supposn

government is providing public assistance to individuals or families on an hourly rate?

Nope. Do you know how to divide?

I advocate our federal government should increase the minimum wage rate by 12.5% of its purchasing power until it attains 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power.

I've seen your silly suggestion. No thanks.

 

[Supposn]

... A local McDonald's pays $10 an hour, to start, no experience needed.

How does the minimum wage rate effect those workers?

Be specific.

Toddsterpatriot, if the current federal minimum wage is $7.25/Hr., the employer couldn't legally pay less, and I suppose the employer pays $10 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees. What's your point? Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... A local McDonald's pays $10 an hour, to start, no experience needed.

How does the minimum wage rate effect those workers?

Be specific.

Toddsterpatriot, if the current federal minimum wage is $7.25/Hr., the employer couldn't legally pay less, and I suppose the employer pays $10 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees. What's your point? Respectfully, Supposn

I suppose the employer pays $10 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees. What's your point?

You claim that the minimum wage effects every single worker in the US.
How does the minimum wage effect the workers at my local McDs who earn $10/hr to start with zero experience?

Be specific. Prove your point.

 

[Supposn]

... How do wage differentials allow unskilled workers with zero experience to earn $3 more than minimum wage? ... It doesn't appear to affect the wages I'm discussing. Not even a tiny bit.

Toddsterpatriot, the minimum wage rate is applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

If the employer would be satisfied with the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task, the employer would have offered no more than $7.25 /Hr.
The employer pays $10.25 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees that the employer hopes will be better motivated to show up and do their jobs. Employers are not generally altruistic. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... How do wage differentials allow unskilled workers with zero experience to earn $3 more than minimum wage? ... It doesn't appear to affect the wages I'm discussing. Not even a tiny bit.

Toddsterpatriot, the minimum wage rate is applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

If the employer would be satisfied with the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task, the employer would have offered no more than $7.25 /Hr.
The employer pays $10.25 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees that the employer hopes will be better motivated to show up and do their jobs. Employers are not generally altruistic. Respectfully, Supposn

The employer pays $10.25 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees that the employer hopes will be better motivated to show up and do their jobs.

So the $7.25 minimum wage doesn't affect these employees?

 

[Supposn]

The employer pays $10.25 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees that the employer hopes will be better motivated to show up and do their jobs.

So the $7.25 minimum wage doesn't affect these employees?

... A local McDonald's pays $10 an hour, to start, no experience needed.
How does the minimum wage rate effect those workers?
Be specific.

Toddsterpatriot, I'll try to be as specific as you.

To begin, referring to the first post of this thread: Do you agree with my contention that there is a market-determined theoretical indefinite minimum wage rate, as I have described?

If so, are you advocating that should effectively be the minimum wage rate within our nation?

If so, just as an example, provide me with your theoretical but definite market's minimum wage rate.

How about considering the current local market you referred to; that's the market where “McDonald's pays $10 an hour, to start, no experience needed”? What would you consider to be that market's minimum wage rate for the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task?

We can continue our discussion from that point. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The employer pays $10.25 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees that the employer hopes will be better motivated to show up and do their jobs.

So the $7.25 minimum wage doesn't affect these employees?

... A local McDonald's pays $10 an hour, to start, no experience needed.
How does the minimum wage rate effect those workers?
Be specific.

Toddsterpatriot, I'll try to be as specific as you.

To begin, referring to the first post of this thread: Do you agree with my contention that there is a market-determined theoretical indefinite minimum wage rate, as I have described?

If so, are you advocating that should effectively be the minimum wage rate within our nation?

If so, just as an example, provide me with your theoretical but definite market's minimum wage rate.

How about considering the current local market you referred to; that's the market where “McDonald's pays $10 an hour, to start, no experience needed”? What would you consider to be that market's minimum wage rate for the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task?

We can continue our discussion from that point. Respectfully, Supposn

Do you agree with my contention that there is a market-determined theoretical indefinite minimum wage rate, as I have described?

Your first post was filled with gibberish, so I ignored it.

If so, are you advocating that should effectively be the minimum wage rate within our nation?

My argument is that the Federal Minimum Wage should be eliminated.

How about considering the current local market you referred to; that's the market where “McDonald's pays $10 an hour, to start, no experience needed”?

You've claimed that the minimum wage impacts all higher wage employees and that eliminating the minimum wage would be a disaster for all workers.

Take the unskilled, zero experience workers at my local McDonald's and explain how they would be harmed if the Federal Minimum Wage went away tomorrow.

Be as specific as you can.

 

[Supposn]

... My argument is that the Federal Minimum Wage should be eliminated. ...

Toddsterpatriot, do you advocate anything to replace it; for example, a state's minimum wage rate? If not that, what? Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

I suppose the employer pays $10 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees. What's your point?

You claim that the minimum wage effects every single worker in the US.
How does the minimum wage effect the workers at my local McDs who earn $10/hr to start with zero experience?
Be specific. Prove your point.

Toddsterpatriot, I answered your question within post #35. Transcript of post #35:

... How do wage differentials allow unskilled workers with zero experience to earn $3 more than minimum wage? ... It doesn't appear to affect the wages I'm discussing. Not even a tiny bit.

The minimum wage rate is applicable to the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task.

If the employer would be satisfied with the least desirable employee performing the least challenging task, the employer would have offered no more than $7.25 /Hr.

The employer pays $10.25 per hour in order to be able to recruit or retain employees that the employer hopes will be better motivated to show up and do their jobs. Employers are not generally altruistic. Respectfully, Supposn

The employer is required to pay no less than the $7.25/Hr. Minimum rate.

Everything above that is left to the employer's discretion. Due to the economic concept of wage differentials, employers are motivated to pay more than the minimum rate.
Respectfully, Supposn