CDZ How do we calculate healthcare law success?

[Toronado3800]

But how do we determine if this thing has been a success?

My insurance costs are going up no worse than they were in the 00's but how about as a nation?

Is there a good amount of work being done to make medical procedures more affordable before they bankrupt us all? A million dollar treatment to cure Alzheimer's or a lung transplant is great science but does making Asthma treatment cheaper really help the country more?)

Anything being done to help make care more accessible? I find the proliferation of nurse practitioners at Walgreens and Urgent Care centers open from 0800 to 2000 a great step. They save me on ER trips and missed work. Why is my doctor's office only open from 9 to 5 still?

We seem to have stepped backwards in the vaccine world. I don't know if the culture of Bush and fuzzy math understanding is why or if the current administration is just too busy defending the questionably Constitutional Obamacare.

To determine if healthcare works in this country can we see if a 275lb man lives longer here than in Italy, Greece, Japan or wherever? Or compare by BMI or whatever? Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Walgreens here still doesn't call if they get a prescription for this or that medicine and are out. They just assume you'll go to the hospital for treatment if it is going to take a day or two for them to source it. Chalk that up to mis-applied regulation so that was a misstep.

Picking a doctor who takes your insurance is about the same mess as in the 80's.

Figuring out what your insurance covers seems the same as when I watched my parents guess.

The value of our dollar is going to other countries one lap top, pair of jeans and iPhone at a time so of course our buying power of healthcare is going down. Then again a doctor in 1900 didn't stand a chance fighting lung cancer. You just died. Now for $100,000 you have a fighting chance so that is a $100,000 cost of healthcare which didn't exist previously.

What other criteria should I be looking at?

 

[Fenton Lum]

But how do we determine if this thing has been a success?

My insurance costs are going up no worse than they were in the 00's but how about as a nation?

Is there a good amount of work being done to make medical procedures more affordable before they bankrupt us all? A million dollar treatment to cure Alzheimer's or a lung transplant is great science but does making Asthma treatment cheaper really help the country more?)

Anything being done to help make care more accessible? I find the proliferation of nurse practitioners at Walgreens and Urgent Care centers open from 0800 to 2000 a great step. They save me on ER trips and missed work. Why is my doctor's office only open from 9 to 5 still?

We seem to have stepped backwards in the vaccine world. I don't know if the culture of Bush and fuzzy math understanding is why or if the current administration is just too busy defending the questionably Constitutional Obamacare.

To determine if healthcare works in this country can we see if a 275lb man lives longer here than in Italy, Greece, Japan or wherever? Or compare by BMI or whatever? Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Walgreens here still doesn't call if they get a prescription for this or that medicine and are out. They just assume you'll go to the hospital for treatment if it is going to take a day or two for them to source it. Chalk that up to mis-applied regulation so that was a misstep.

Picking a doctor who takes your insurance is about the same mess as in the 80's.

Figuring out what your insurance covers seems the same as when I watched my parents guess.

The value of our dollar is going to other countries one lap top, pair of jeans and iPhone at a time so of course our buying power of healthcare is going down. Then again a doctor in 1900 didn't stand a chance fighting lung cancer. You just died. Now for $100,000 you have a fighting chance so that is a $100,000 cost of healthcare which didn't exist previously.

What other criteria should I be looking at?

WHO healthcare outcome rankings would be a start.

 

[320 Years of History]

how do we determine if [healthcare laws] are successful?

How to make that determination is really quite simple. One determines whether it's successful by examining what it aims to accomplish and in what time frames it targets getting those things accomplished and when the target date arrives, measuring whether the stated goals have been met.

• If they have been met 100%, it's successful.
• If none of the stated goals have been met, it's not successful.
• If the goals have not been fully met, one must quantify the extent to which each goal has been achieved, and if it turns out that more goals have been met than not met, the "thing" must be deemed mostly successful.
• If fewer than half the goals defined for the "thing" have not been met by the target date, one must deem it as unsuccessful.

 

[320 Years of History]

Can anyone point to what are the stated goals of our various healthcare laws? As far as I know, the ACA's goals are:

• Expand Health Insurance Coverage
• Shift the Focus of the Health Care Delivery System from Treatment to Prevention
• Reduce the Costs and Improve the Efficiency of Health Care (as goes the second part of this goal, I don't know what the baseline measure of efficiency is)

Of course, the ACA is not the only healthcare legislation that has been enacted. I don't know what the goals of other articles of healthcare legislation are.

 

[Fishlore]

Who are the most frantically opposed to the whole thing?

When your chief opponents are the Koch boys and white folks in Mississippi, you know you are on the right track.

 

[Elvis Obama]

But how do we determine if this thing has been a success?

My insurance costs are going up no worse than they were in the 00's but how about as a nation?

Is there a good amount of work being done to make medical procedures more affordable before they bankrupt us all? A million dollar treatment to cure Alzheimer's or a lung transplant is great science but does making Asthma treatment cheaper really help the country more?)

Anything being done to help make care more accessible? I find the proliferation of nurse practitioners at Walgreens and Urgent Care centers open from 0800 to 2000 a great step. They save me on ER trips and missed work. Why is my doctor's office only open from 9 to 5 still?

We seem to have stepped backwards in the vaccine world. I don't know if the culture of Bush and fuzzy math understanding is why or if the current administration is just too busy defending the questionably Constitutional Obamacare.

To determine if healthcare works in this country can we see if a 275lb man lives longer here than in Italy, Greece, Japan or wherever? Or compare by BMI or whatever? Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Walgreens here still doesn't call if they get a prescription for this or that medicine and are out. They just assume you'll go to the hospital for treatment if it is going to take a day or two for them to source it. Chalk that up to mis-applied regulation so that was a misstep.

Picking a doctor who takes your insurance is about the same mess as in the 80's.

Figuring out what your insurance covers seems the same as when I watched my parents guess.

The value of our dollar is going to other countries one lap top, pair of jeans and iPhone at a time so of course our buying power of healthcare is going down. Then again a doctor in 1900 didn't stand a chance fighting lung cancer. You just died. Now for $100,000 you have a fighting chance so that is a $100,000 cost of healthcare which didn't exist previously.

What other criteria should I be looking at?

Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Of course our lifestyles should be held against them. Everything is lifestyle, in one way or another. The inherent self-destructiveness of the species comes out in our third leading cause of death, medical error, as well in the behavioral basis of heart disease, diabetes, lung disease. It's not fair to hold doctors accountable for the human failings which lead to death, but their job is to prevent death and sickness, and fair or not, if they fail to make a dent in our death rates, then they take the blame.

The stats would seem to tell the story, though. Bring down the numbers and you've succeeded. Bring the numbers way down and you've got political success. A large percentage of the population will still deny it is a success though, no matter what.

 

[Fishlore]

But how do we determine if this thing has been a success?

My insurance costs are going up no worse than they were in the 00's but how about as a nation?

Is there a good amount of work being done to make medical procedures more affordable before they bankrupt us all? A million dollar treatment to cure Alzheimer's or a lung transplant is great science but does making Asthma treatment cheaper really help the country more?)

Anything being done to help make care more accessible? I find the proliferation of nurse practitioners at Walgreens and Urgent Care centers open from 0800 to 2000 a great step. They save me on ER trips and missed work. Why is my doctor's office only open from 9 to 5 still?

We seem to have stepped backwards in the vaccine world. I don't know if the culture of Bush and fuzzy math understanding is why or if the current administration is just too busy defending the questionably Constitutional Obamacare.

To determine if healthcare works in this country can we see if a 275lb man lives longer here than in Italy, Greece, Japan or wherever? Or compare by BMI or whatever? Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Walgreens here still doesn't call if they get a prescription for this or that medicine and are out. They just assume you'll go to the hospital for treatment if it is going to take a day or two for them to source it. Chalk that up to mis-applied regulation so that was a misstep.

Picking a doctor who takes your insurance is about the same mess as in the 80's.

Figuring out what your insurance covers seems the same as when I watched my parents guess.

The value of our dollar is going to other countries one lap top, pair of jeans and iPhone at a time so of course our buying power of healthcare is going down. Then again a doctor in 1900 didn't stand a chance fighting lung cancer. You just died. Now for $100,000 you have a fighting chance so that is a $100,000 cost of healthcare which didn't exist previously.

What other criteria should I be looking at?

Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Of course our lifestyles should be held against them. Everything is lifestyle, in one way or another. The inherent self-destructiveness of the species comes out in our third leading cause of death, medical error, as well in the behavioral basis of heart disease, diabetes, lung disease. It's not fair to hold doctors accountable for the human failings which lead to death, but their job is to prevent death and sickness, and fair or not, if they fail to make a dent in our death rates, then they take the blame.

The stats would seem to tell the story, though. Bring down the numbers and you've succeeded. Bring the numbers way down and you've got political success. A large percentage of the population will still deny it is a success though, no matter what.

There is no way to hold doctors responsible for health problems due to lifestyles without giving them the power to regulate lifestyles. The medical profession would surely ban smoking and permit late-term abortion. Are we ready for this?

 

[saveliberty]

The Affordable Health Care Act aka Obamacare? Well, more people should have access and it should be affordable.

 

[Toronado3800]

Thank you all for you ideas. I have some research to do.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Thank you all for you ideas. I have some research to do.

Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System
MMS: Error

U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries
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U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing
U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing

MEASURING OVERALL HEALTH SYSTEM PERFORMANCE FOR 191 COUNTRIES
http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

 

[Fishlore]

Thank you all for you ideas. I have some research to do.

Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System
MMS: Error

U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries
{{meta.title}}

U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing
U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing

MEASURING OVERALL HEALTH SYSTEM PERFORMANCE FOR 191 COUNTRIES
http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

To be fair, U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing was true significantly before the passage of ACA. ACA has had some cost containment results but nothing near what is needed. We still have many millions uninsured and the wild variations in premiums and service continue.

ACA is nothing more than a lowering of the Medicaid threshold and a federal subsidy for the fees of out-of-control for-profit hospitals and big pharma, All the same billionaires are still scamming the system. Medicare for All and rigorous government supervision is the only answer for a nation as huge and diverse as the USA, Tinkering and patching a failed system is never going to cut it.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Thank you all for you ideas. I have some research to do.

Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System
MMS: Error

U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries
{{meta.title}}

U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing
U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing

MEASURING OVERALL HEALTH SYSTEM PERFORMANCE FOR 191 COUNTRIES
http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

To be fair, U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing was true significantly before the passage of ACA. ACA has had some cost containment results but nothing near what is needed. We still have many millions uninsured and the wild variations in premiums and service continue.

ACA is nothing more than a lowering of the Medicaid threshold and a federal subsidy for the fees of out-of-control for-profit hospitals and big pharma, All the same billionaires are still scamming the system. Medicare for All and rigorous government supervision is the only answer for a nation as huge and diverse as the USA, Tinkering and patching a failed system is never going to cut it.

"To be fair, U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing was true significantly before the passage of ACA."

Oh absolutely, the state of the US healthcare system was a total wreck before the Heritage Foundation hatched ACA which did little to change things. Other nations have figured out how to handle this, we just have an -ism aversion to what works.

 

[Elvis Obama]

But how do we determine if this thing has been a success?

My insurance costs are going up no worse than they were in the 00's but how about as a nation?

Is there a good amount of work being done to make medical procedures more affordable before they bankrupt us all? A million dollar treatment to cure Alzheimer's or a lung transplant is great science but does making Asthma treatment cheaper really help the country more?)

Anything being done to help make care more accessible? I find the proliferation of nurse practitioners at Walgreens and Urgent Care centers open from 0800 to 2000 a great step. They save me on ER trips and missed work. Why is my doctor's office only open from 9 to 5 still?

We seem to have stepped backwards in the vaccine world. I don't know if the culture of Bush and fuzzy math understanding is why or if the current administration is just too busy defending the questionably Constitutional Obamacare.

To determine if healthcare works in this country can we see if a 275lb man lives longer here than in Italy, Greece, Japan or wherever? Or compare by BMI or whatever? Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Walgreens here still doesn't call if they get a prescription for this or that medicine and are out. They just assume you'll go to the hospital for treatment if it is going to take a day or two for them to source it. Chalk that up to mis-applied regulation so that was a misstep.

Picking a doctor who takes your insurance is about the same mess as in the 80's.

Figuring out what your insurance covers seems the same as when I watched my parents guess.

The value of our dollar is going to other countries one lap top, pair of jeans and iPhone at a time so of course our buying power of healthcare is going down. Then again a doctor in 1900 didn't stand a chance fighting lung cancer. You just died. Now for $100,000 you have a fighting chance so that is a $100,000 cost of healthcare which didn't exist previously.

What other criteria should I be looking at?

Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Of course our lifestyles should be held against them. Everything is lifestyle, in one way or another. The inherent self-destructiveness of the species comes out in our third leading cause of death, medical error, as well in the behavioral basis of heart disease, diabetes, lung disease. It's not fair to hold doctors accountable for the human failings which lead to death, but their job is to prevent death and sickness, and fair or not, if they fail to make a dent in our death rates, then they take the blame.

The stats would seem to tell the story, though. Bring down the numbers and you've succeeded. Bring the numbers way down and you've got political success. A large percentage of the population will still deny it is a success though, no matter what.

There is no way to hold doctors responsible for health problems due to lifestyles without giving them the power to regulate lifestyles. The medical profession would surely ban smoking and permit late-term abortion. Are we ready for this?

We managed to bring down the smoking rate, without rising to the level of Big Brother. Big Nanny, according to some, but you're always free to ignore your nanny.

Doctors are not responsible for our behavior, but they are responsible for bringing down our rates of death and illness. When they fail to do so, fair or not, they get the blame, not our addiction to Twinkies and indolence. What people so often fail to acknowledge is that the vast majority of deaths and illnesses we suffer are self-induced, to some degree. Heart disease is related to poor diet and lack of exercise. Lung disease is related to smoking and pollution. Diabetes, again diet and exercise. Medical error is certainly a death producer which is in the direct control of the medical profession. Sometimes medicine can improve outcomes without moderating our behavior. Medical research developing risk reducing therapies and drugs. Sometimes it's PSAs, which have reduced death rates from smoking and automotive deaths. It's astounding to me how people complain about being reminded not to be self-destructive. There is difference between bravely guarding against the onset of tyranny and childishly, petulantly refusing to take your medicine.

 

[320 Years of History]

We managed to bring down the smoking rate, without rising to the level of Big Brother. Big Nanny, according to some, but you're always free to ignore your nanny.

You're overlooking one major distinction: the purchase and use of cigarettes is always discretionary, whereas the purchase of healthcare only sometimes is, but far more often it is a necessary purchase. This is why we find it ethically acceptable to levy direct "sin taxes" on cigarettes and immoral to levy direct taxes of any sort on healthcare services.

 

[Asclepias]

But how do we determine if this thing has been a success?

My insurance costs are going up no worse than they were in the 00's but how about as a nation?

Is there a good amount of work being done to make medical procedures more affordable before they bankrupt us all? A million dollar treatment to cure Alzheimer's or a lung transplant is great science but does making Asthma treatment cheaper really help the country more?)

Anything being done to help make care more accessible? I find the proliferation of nurse practitioners at Walgreens and Urgent Care centers open from 0800 to 2000 a great step. They save me on ER trips and missed work. Why is my doctor's office only open from 9 to 5 still?

We seem to have stepped backwards in the vaccine world. I don't know if the culture of Bush and fuzzy math understanding is why or if the current administration is just too busy defending the questionably Constitutional Obamacare.

To determine if healthcare works in this country can we see if a 275lb man lives longer here than in Italy, Greece, Japan or wherever? Or compare by BMI or whatever? Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Walgreens here still doesn't call if they get a prescription for this or that medicine and are out. They just assume you'll go to the hospital for treatment if it is going to take a day or two for them to source it. Chalk that up to mis-applied regulation so that was a misstep.

Picking a doctor who takes your insurance is about the same mess as in the 80's.

Figuring out what your insurance covers seems the same as when I watched my parents guess.

The value of our dollar is going to other countries one lap top, pair of jeans and iPhone at a time so of course our buying power of healthcare is going down. Then again a doctor in 1900 didn't stand a chance fighting lung cancer. You just died. Now for $100,000 you have a fighting chance so that is a $100,000 cost of healthcare which didn't exist previously.

What other criteria should I be looking at?

Find out how many people now have health care coverage as opposed to how many didnt prior to ACA. Then you want to look and see if taxpayer costs have gone down for emergency room visits. You are going to need at least a decade of data to see the trend.

 

[320 Years of History]

But how do we determine if this thing has been a success?

My insurance costs are going up no worse than they were in the 00's but how about as a nation?

Is there a good amount of work being done to make medical procedures more affordable before they bankrupt us all? A million dollar treatment to cure Alzheimer's or a lung transplant is great science but does making Asthma treatment cheaper really help the country more?)

Anything being done to help make care more accessible? I find the proliferation of nurse practitioners at Walgreens and Urgent Care centers open from 0800 to 2000 a great step. They save me on ER trips and missed work. Why is my doctor's office only open from 9 to 5 still?

We seem to have stepped backwards in the vaccine world. I don't know if the culture of Bush and fuzzy math understanding is why or if the current administration is just too busy defending the questionably Constitutional Obamacare.

To determine if healthcare works in this country can we see if a 275lb man lives longer here than in Italy, Greece, Japan or wherever? Or compare by BMI or whatever? Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Walgreens here still doesn't call if they get a prescription for this or that medicine and are out. They just assume you'll go to the hospital for treatment if it is going to take a day or two for them to source it. Chalk that up to mis-applied regulation so that was a misstep.

Picking a doctor who takes your insurance is about the same mess as in the 80's.

Figuring out what your insurance covers seems the same as when I watched my parents guess.

The value of our dollar is going to other countries one lap top, pair of jeans and iPhone at a time so of course our buying power of healthcare is going down. Then again a doctor in 1900 didn't stand a chance fighting lung cancer. You just died. Now for $100,000 you have a fighting chance so that is a $100,000 cost of healthcare which didn't exist previously.

What other criteria should I be looking at?

Find out how many people now have health care coverage as opposed to how many didnt prior to ACA. Then you want to look and see if taxpayer costs have gone down for emergency room visits. You are going to need at least a decade of data to see the trend.

Frankly, I think most Americans want the solution -- be it the ACA or some other one -- to transform U.S. healthcare almost overnight. Too, I think anything that doesn't will be presented and discussed, unfairly, as a failure. U.S. healthcare didn't get where it is "overnight;" similarly, it won't be "fixed" or improved "overnight."

 

[Asclepias]

But how do we determine if this thing has been a success?

My insurance costs are going up no worse than they were in the 00's but how about as a nation?

Is there a good amount of work being done to make medical procedures more affordable before they bankrupt us all? A million dollar treatment to cure Alzheimer's or a lung transplant is great science but does making Asthma treatment cheaper really help the country more?)

Anything being done to help make care more accessible? I find the proliferation of nurse practitioners at Walgreens and Urgent Care centers open from 0800 to 2000 a great step. They save me on ER trips and missed work. Why is my doctor's office only open from 9 to 5 still?

We seem to have stepped backwards in the vaccine world. I don't know if the culture of Bush and fuzzy math understanding is why or if the current administration is just too busy defending the questionably Constitutional Obamacare.

To determine if healthcare works in this country can we see if a 275lb man lives longer here than in Italy, Greece, Japan or wherever? Or compare by BMI or whatever? Our lifestyle isn't our doctor's fault and shouldn't be held against them.

Walgreens here still doesn't call if they get a prescription for this or that medicine and are out. They just assume you'll go to the hospital for treatment if it is going to take a day or two for them to source it. Chalk that up to mis-applied regulation so that was a misstep.

Picking a doctor who takes your insurance is about the same mess as in the 80's.

Figuring out what your insurance covers seems the same as when I watched my parents guess.

The value of our dollar is going to other countries one lap top, pair of jeans and iPhone at a time so of course our buying power of healthcare is going down. Then again a doctor in 1900 didn't stand a chance fighting lung cancer. You just died. Now for $100,000 you have a fighting chance so that is a $100,000 cost of healthcare which didn't exist previously.

What other criteria should I be looking at?

Find out how many people now have health care coverage as opposed to how many didnt prior to ACA. Then you want to look and see if taxpayer costs have gone down for emergency room visits. You are going to need at least a decade of data to see the trend.

Frankly, I think most Americans want the solution -- be it the ACA or some other one -- to transform U.S. healthcare almost overnight. Too, I think anything that doesn't will be presented and discussed, unfairly, as a failure. U.S. healthcare didn't get where it is "overnight;" similarly, it won't be "fixed" or improved "overnight."

Our society has turned into a microwave society. People dont understand about processes and making things better.

 

[320 Years of History]

People dont understand about processes and making things better.

Shoot...I'd be happy if "people" in general fully understood what they want to improve and what they are talking about most of the time. They need to do that before they can worry about how to make improvements.

You can't judge the depth of a well by the handle on the pump.
-- Family aphorism; there's no tellin' here who said it first​