How do people survive on minimum wage?

[MikeK]

[...]

If you're making minimum wage that means two things a) you're an idiot or b) you cant hold a job.

You left out the jobs exported to foreign countries, jobs which paid a living wage and led to the rise of the American Middle Class. For an American industry to give those jobs to foreign wage slaves is manifestly damaging to the United States and should be regarded as a form of treason.

But you ignore this reason why millions of American workers have lost their jobs and their pensions and you seek to blame the workers, themselves.

 

[thanatos144]

You want to see how successful the concept of eternally increasing a wage is, and how it affects the economy...here ya go:

Detroit. Once arguably one of the most productive, vibrant cities in the US.

I worked security in that area......

 

[The T]

You want to see how successful the concept of eternally increasing a wage is, and how it affects the economy...here ya go:

Detroit. Once arguably one of the most productive, vibrant cities in the US.

There are a few videos across YouTube that show detroit...it looks like a war zone.

 

[Foxfyre]

[...]

If you're making minimum wage that means two things a) you're an idiot or b) you cant hold a job.

You left out the jobs exported to foreign countries, jobs which paid a living wage and led to the rise of the American Middle Class. For an American industry to give those jobs to foreign wage slaves is manifestly damaging to the United States and should be regarded as a form of treason.

But you ignore this reason why millions of American workers have lost their jobs and their pensions and you seek to blame the workers, themselves.

The workers are to blame if they demand wages that make it less profitable to manufacture a product or conduct other business in the United States. No business is in business to provide a great living wage for its employees. It provides a wage that entices poeple to work for it so that it can make a good profit for those who invest in that business. Take away all or most of the profit, and the business will go where it can still make one. It is the productivity of the employees, not some arbitary artificial amount dictated by government or the unions, that determines what the profits are and what is useful for the employer to pay to keep that productivity in place.

It is all interrelated.

 

[Againsheila]

You want to see how successful the concept of eternally increasing a wage is, and how it affects the economy...here ya go:

Detroit. Once arguably one of the most productive, vibrant cities in the US.

That has more to do with "free trade" than mw. In fact, I don't believe a single worker at the autoplants was making mw when they closed, where they?

 

[Againsheila]

UniversalLivingWage.org--Sample Facts & Myths

FACT: Paying a living wage will create new business as new revenue promotes commerce. Also, some economists argue that higher pay results in increased productivity by making jobs more desirable to both get and to keep, thereby reducing recruitment, training and supervisory costs associated with high rates of turnover

 

[Foxfyre]

UniversalLivingWage.org--Sample Facts & Myths

FACT: Paying a living wage will create new business as new revenue promotes commerce. Also, some economists argue that higher pay results in increased productivity by making jobs more desirable to both get and to keep, thereby reducing recruitment, training and supervisory costs associated with high rates of turnover

Fact: Paying a living wage encourages good people to work for you. And if their work produces profits for the person taking all the risks in the business, that is a strong incentive to pay that living wage. If paying a living wage erases whatever profits those employees are generating for the business, the jobs go away and sometimes the business also goes away. It is all interrelated.

 

[Mr.Nick]

[...]

If you're making minimum wage that means two things a) you're an idiot or b) you cant hold a job.

You left out the jobs exported to foreign countries, jobs which paid a living wage and led to the rise of the American Middle Class. For an American industry to give those jobs to foreign wage slaves is manifestly damaging to the United States and should be regarded as a form of treason.

But you ignore this reason why millions of American workers have lost their jobs and their pensions and you seek to blame the workers, themselves.

I don't know what outsourcing has to do with any of this? but I'll play the game..

A) I love how progressives are totally pro illegal alien - they come here and take jobs but you don't *****. You ***** about outsourcing but not the fact that illegals are stealing jobs here. So now tell me what the **** the difference is if I hire a guy in China to make a product or if I hire an illegal alien to make a product for the same ******* price????? There are only 20 million illegals here - not to mention many are living off welfare and sending greenbacks back to Mexico (or wherever they're from).

B) Outsourcing creates cheaper products, which in turn creates a higher demand for those products which creates jobs - jobs such as more clerk jobs, transportation, manufacturing etc so in the end the money and jobs come right back to us when we outsource.

So would you rather pay $250.00 for your flat screen TV or $2,500? would you rather pay $50 bucks for your shoes or $150.00???

If union employees made all this shit it would be expensive and a lot of people would not buy these products - that would equal less jobs due to the lack of demand.

Yeah, you can afford $250.00 for a TV but $2,500???

 

[SniperFire]

UniversalLivingWage.org--Sample Facts & Myths

FACT: Paying a living wage will create new business as new revenue promotes commerce. Also, some economists argue that higher pay results in increased productivity by making jobs more desirable to both get and to keep, thereby reducing recruitment, training and supervisory costs associated with high rates of turnover

'Fact'? LOL

Keynesian morons are cute.

 

[Againsheila]

[...]

If you're making minimum wage that means two things a) you're an idiot or b) you cant hold a job.

You left out the jobs exported to foreign countries, jobs which paid a living wage and led to the rise of the American Middle Class. For an American industry to give those jobs to foreign wage slaves is manifestly damaging to the United States and should be regarded as a form of treason.

But you ignore this reason why millions of American workers have lost their jobs and their pensions and you seek to blame the workers, themselves.

I don't know what outsourcing has to do with any of this? but I'll play the game..

A) I love how progressives are totally pro illegal alien - they come here and take jobs but you don't *****. You ***** about outsourcing but not the fact that illegals are stealing jobs here. So now tell me what the **** the difference is if I hire a guy in China to make a product or if I hire an illegal alien to make a product for the same ******* price????? There are only 20 million illegals here - not to mention many are living off welfare and sending greenbacks back to Mexico (or wherever they're from).

B) Outsourcing creates cheaper products, which in turn creates a higher demand for those products which creates jobs - jobs such as more clerk jobs, transportation, manufacturing etc so in the end the money and jobs come right back to us when we outsource.

So would you rather pay $250.00 for your flat screen TV or $2,500? would you rather pay $50 bucks for your shoes or $150.00???

If union employees made all this shit it would be expensive and a lot of people would not buy these products - that would equal less jobs due to the lack of demand.

Yeah, you can afford $250.00 for a TV but $2,500???

I saw Seattle calendars side by side, one made in Hong Kong, one made in the USA. Guess what? The Hong Kong calendar cost more.

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees. I still can't believe Michael Jorden got paid more for doing ONE commercial for Niki than all their other employees were paid in a YEAR! I don't buy those shoes.

Heck, I would rather stand in line in the grocery store than go through the self check out, I believe in supporting jobs in the USA and all that costs me is time.

Oh, and I'm just as upset about the illegals and GUEST workers coming into this country to take our jobs and reduce our wages as I am with the companies going overseas to find cheaper workers or to get out of paying taxes.

 

[DiamondDave]

UniversalLivingWage.org--Sample Facts & Myths

FACT: Paying a living wage will create new business as new revenue promotes commerce. Also, some economists argue that higher pay results in increased productivity by making jobs more desirable to both get and to keep, thereby reducing recruitment, training and supervisory costs associated with high rates of turnover

universallivingwage.org?? Nah.. they don't have an agenda

 

[Foxfyre]

UniversalLivingWage.org--Sample Facts & Myths

FACT: Paying a living wage will create new business as new revenue promotes commerce. Also, some economists argue that higher pay results in increased productivity by making jobs more desirable to both get and to keep, thereby reducing recruitment, training and supervisory costs associated with high rates of turnover

'Fact'? LOL

Keynesian morons are cute.

Sheila is NOT a keynesian moron and she has been conducting a quite civil debate from her point of view.

The only quarrel any of us might have with her is that she is seeing the issue only from the perspective of the employee and not from the perspective of the employer and why he or she would hire somebody in the first place.

 

[Againsheila]

UniversalLivingWage.org--Sample Facts & Myths

FACT: Paying a living wage will create new business as new revenue promotes commerce. Also, some economists argue that higher pay results in increased productivity by making jobs more desirable to both get and to keep, thereby reducing recruitment, training and supervisory costs associated with high rates of turnover

'Fact'? LOL

Keynesian morons are cute.

Sheila is NOT a keynesian moron and she has been conducting a quite civil debate from her point of view.

The only quarrel any of us might have with her is that she is seeing the issue only from the perspective of the employee and not from the perspective of the employer and why he or she would hire somebody in the first place.

Thanks Foxy. I really wish more people on this board could actually debate without resorting to insults and name calling.

 

[Mr.Nick]

UniversalLivingWage.org--Sample Facts & Myths

FACT: Paying a living wage will create new business as new revenue promotes commerce. Also, some economists argue that higher pay results in increased productivity by making jobs more desirable to both get and to keep, thereby reducing recruitment, training and supervisory costs associated with high rates of turnover

Fact: Paying a living wage encourages good people to work for you. And if their work produces profits for the person taking all the risks in the business, that is a strong incentive to pay that living wage. If paying a living wage erases whatever profits those employees are generating for the business, the jobs go away and sometimes the business also goes away. It is all interrelated.

A good employee is invaluable....

Good employees get paid good money because the owners know and respect how valuable they are to the business...

Especially with small businesses...

Obviously lazy people who are unreliable wont get paid as much.

I used to work at a shoe store when I was 17 and after 6 months I went from 5.75 to 8.00, and this was back in 1997.

I suppose my point is that if you work hard and are a good employee and are reliable you will get ahead.

 

[Againsheila]

UniversalLivingWage.org--Sample Facts & Myths

FACT: Paying a living wage will create new business as new revenue promotes commerce. Also, some economists argue that higher pay results in increased productivity by making jobs more desirable to both get and to keep, thereby reducing recruitment, training and supervisory costs associated with high rates of turnover

Fact: Paying a living wage encourages good people to work for you. And if their work produces profits for the person taking all the risks in the business, that is a strong incentive to pay that living wage. If paying a living wage erases whatever profits those employees are generating for the business, the jobs go away and sometimes the business also goes away. It is all interrelated.

A good employee is invaluable....

Good employees get paid good money because the owners know and respect how valuable they are to the business...

Especially with small businesses...

Obviously lazy people who are unreliable wont get paid as much.

I used to work at a shoe store when I was 17 and after 6 months I went from 5.75 to 8.00, and this was back in 1997.

I suppose my point is that if you work hard and are a good employee and are reliable you will get ahead.

I know good employees who were pushed out of their jobs at 6 months because they didn't want to give the employees a raise or fire them...so they made life a living hell for them until they quit. It's big like that in restaurants....

 

[DiamondDave]

'Fact'? LOL

Keynesian morons are cute.

Sheila is NOT a keynesian moron and she has been conducting a quite civil debate from her point of view.

The only quarrel any of us might have with her is that she is seeing the issue only from the perspective of the employee and not from the perspective of the employer and why he or she would hire somebody in the first place.

Thanks Foxy. I really wish more people on this board could actually debate without resorting to insults and name calling.

Sheila... you are one I actually LIKE debating with... so I hope you don't think that I look to insult you or anything like that... I save that for the trolls like TDM

 

[Mr.Nick]

You left out the jobs exported to foreign countries, jobs which paid a living wage and led to the rise of the American Middle Class. For an American industry to give those jobs to foreign wage slaves is manifestly damaging to the United States and should be regarded as a form of treason.

But you ignore this reason why millions of American workers have lost their jobs and their pensions and you seek to blame the workers, themselves.

I don't know what outsourcing has to do with any of this? but I'll play the game..

A) I love how progressives are totally pro illegal alien - they come here and take jobs but you don't *****. You ***** about outsourcing but not the fact that illegals are stealing jobs here. So now tell me what the **** the difference is if I hire a guy in China to make a product or if I hire an illegal alien to make a product for the same ******* price????? There are only 20 million illegals here - not to mention many are living off welfare and sending greenbacks back to Mexico (or wherever they're from).

B) Outsourcing creates cheaper products, which in turn creates a higher demand for those products which creates jobs - jobs such as more clerk jobs, transportation, manufacturing etc so in the end the money and jobs come right back to us when we outsource.

So would you rather pay $250.00 for your flat screen TV or $2,500? would you rather pay $50 bucks for your shoes or $150.00???

If union employees made all this shit it would be expensive and a lot of people would not buy these products - that would equal less jobs due to the lack of demand.

Yeah, you can afford $250.00 for a TV but $2,500???

I saw Seattle calendars side by side, one made in Hong Kong, one made in the USA. Guess what? The Hong Kong calendar cost more.

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees. I still can't believe Michael Jorden got paid more for doing ONE commercial for Niki than all their other employees were paid in a YEAR! I don't buy those shoes.

Heck, I would rather stand in line in the grocery store than go through the self check out, I believe in supporting jobs in the USA and all that costs me is time.

Oh, and I'm just as upset about the illegals and GUEST workers coming into this country to take our jobs and reduce our wages as I am with the companies going overseas to find cheaper workers or to get out of paying taxes.

95% of products manufactured via outsourcing are cheaper than the products made here.

I'll say it again - the cheaper the product the more demand - the more expensive the product the less demand.

Demand creates jobs....

I would love it if we manufactured all our products here in the USA but the truth is that unions are so greedy and expensive and that goes right into the cost of the product. Not to mention the shit we do manufacture here - the components to make those items are from overseas anyways - they just assemble that shit here (which is one of the problems with a flat tax but that is a different topic).

My point is that the cheaper the product the more you sell of that said product hence the more business hence the more casheers and the more shipping and more gas sold etc....

So outsourcing itself creates jobs just because it keeps demand up due to the cheap prices.

Oh and as far as what we pay those in other countries........ Yeah we may pay 2-3 bucks an hour but at the same time that 2-3 bucks an hour converted to their currency is like 10-12 bucks an hour.... Of course that is why these items are so cheap... Despite all the economic shit our dollar is still worth a lot around the world....

 

[SniperFire]

Everyone would rather pay less for their things but I'd rather do without than support shipping jobs overseas or companies that underpay their employees.

There is no such thing as 'shipping jobs overseas.'

Jobs do not have birthrights.

They come and go, and are often simply displaced by technology or other causes.

All you can do as a government to 'create jobs' is make conditions good for those greedy, greedy fatcat businessmen to open up shop and hopefully hire people.

As long as the anti-business Leftists are in control, jobs will continue to be created in greener pastures.

 

[koshergrl]

You want to see how successful the concept of eternally increasing a wage is, and how it affects the economy...here ya go:

Detroit. Once arguably one of the most productive, vibrant cities in the US.

That has more to do with "free trade" than mw. In fact, I don't believe a single worker at the autoplants was making mw when they closed, where they?

No, they weren't. Their employers were forced to pay them more and more and more, beyond what their value as workers actually was...which is what happens with minimum wage.

 

[Mr.Nick]

You want to see how successful the concept of eternally increasing a wage is, and how it affects the economy...here ya go:

Detroit. Once arguably one of the most productive, vibrant cities in the US.

There are a few videos across YouTube that show detroit...it looks like a war zone.

Gary Indiana is just as bad.

Gary is a shit hole. It looks like a post-apocalyptic "Escape From New York" shit hole. There is smog and abandon houses everywhere... Gangs roam freely - it's dangerous.