How do people survive on minimum wage?

[The T]

Anyone who works for minimum wage his whole life is too stupid to pay more.

Actually some people just don't have the intellect or the skillset to make more, as long as they are honest hard working citizens I have no problem with them.

AND if they've made a conscience decision to stay where they are..and NOT complain of thier station in life to the detriment of others.

 

[JoeNormal]

How does a dishwasher or janitor or cashier 'help to create'?

Now if I CHOOSE with my FREEDOM to boost the employees who have given supreme effort with a salary increase, bonus, or share of the profits... that is one thing... to state that even the lowest level of employee must or should increase in earnings because the top of the business is increasing theirs, is ridiculous

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

 

[The Rabbi]

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

I asked why you think that. You've deflected. Typical.

 

[JoeNormal]

Do you really think that a person who is making $10/hr now is going to work for $10/hr if that is the minimum wage? Are you not at all concerned about that person? Is the only person you're worried about the guy making minimum wage?

And by the way, eventually prices will catch up with the cost of labor. It might take a little while but if you walk into Mc Donald's and everyone is suddenly making $10/hr I guarantee you that your burger will cost more.

Shift managers make $11/hr (or did a few months ago). Are you telling me that a guy who walks in and applies for a job is going to make 90% of what a sift manager makes? Of course not. You're going to have to give shift managers a raise too. Who's going to put up with the responsibilities of being a shift manager if it is only an extra dollar an hour?

Or lets go back to Jiffy Lube. The first day technician makes about $8/hr right now. As you get certifications and approvals you get pay incentives to do other things that a Jiffy Lube offers. What is the incentive to learn those extras if you have bumped up minimum wage? Either Jiffy Lube has to pay you more or they will suffer a decline in service.

Mike

Mike

If these guys are currently making $10 or $11 per hour, where else are they going to go? The movers and shakers in our economy don't give a shit about them. That shift manager jobs is a carrot to dangle in front of them at best. Even at squalor plus $2, the desire to go further is still there.

You are assuming it is worth it to the worker to make $11/hr. The point is that nobody will ever move up to shift manager or learn extra skills if they won't get a raise. Companies will have to raise the wage of people making $11/hr or once they get promoted noone will be there to fill their positions. Alternatively maybe the companies will just never promote them. That would be a good solution.

Mike

I think it behooves any company to groom a few people for rising levels of responsibility. That way when the $11 shift manager finds a better opening elsewhere, there's some continuity of experience. But I see what you're saying. I don't know how the labor component of a company like McDonald's figures in. What I do know is that this minimum wage issue has crept into many discussions and at that level, it generally has little impact on the selling price of many products.

 

[The T]

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

HOW do YOU?

 

[High_Gravity]

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

There are services for people on assistance to get free internet.

 

[DiamondDave]

Don't be ridiculous, I am only remarking that the working class regularly and defenselessly absorb loss in a big way but are too often denied a share in the growth they helped create. Take these two together and our work force is steadily headed downhill economically with debt the only stopgap measure available. Stop this bottom-to-middle wage slide and then talk of removing the bottom.

How does a dishwasher or janitor or cashier 'help to create'?

Now if I CHOOSE with my FREEDOM to boost the employees who have given supreme effort with a salary increase, bonus, or share of the profits... that is one thing... to state that even the lowest level of employee must or should increase in earnings because the top of the business is increasing theirs, is ridiculous

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

And there is where the subjectivity comes in... what you think is enough to survive? What is survive to you?

Now... I do believe a company that wants to succeed will compensate employees accordingly, if they want workers to stay, advance, etc... But that is still a choice of the company... In my youth I worked in a restaurant where busboys made almost twice minimum wage and still got a share of tips from the wait staff, and that was a place that was sought after for work and made a nice profit off of customers who wanted top level service... Now does a roach coach necessarily worry about that or do they worry about volume and severe cost savings?

But everything still comes down to the individual who is working for a living. You start off in a minimum wage job at 16 because you are inexperienced, unskilled, etc... and as your needs, wants, and responsibilities grow, so should your approach toward work and your career... Now SHOULD an employer be required to worry that you are a 30 year old person with 3 kids and not a teenager when you still only offer the bare minimum of skills or value?? Not really, IMHO

 

[The T]

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

I asked why you think that. You've deflected. Typical.

Joey 2 Should requisition another name...nothing 'Normal' of him.

 

[KevinWestern]

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

HOW do YOU?

Internet access is cheap and also relatively easy to find for free (ie at your local library)...

 

[DiamondDave]

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

There are services for people on assistance to get free internet.

Library... sharing access with roommates... etc

 

[Samson]

Unemployment lasts for 10 years? Since when?

BTW, I know a woman who lost her job 3 years ago, she's over 50 and can't find a new job. She's even tried the fast food joints and all the restaurants around here. blah...blah....blah

30 millon Mexicans swim a river and hike through a dessert to find a job.

Maybe your friend should go to where jobs are rather than waiting "around there."

For christssakes, its not that complicated.

Where are the jobs?

Google: "Where are the jobs?"

I'm beginning to see that a general lack of imagination is a major ingredient for anyone remaining unemployed for more than a year.

 

[JoeNormal]

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

I asked why you think that. You've deflected. Typical.

You don't know why I would think that? Because working for less than it takes to survive is slavery.

 

[The T]

How do you afford internet on welfare?

I asked why you think that. You've deflected. Typical.

You don't know why I would think that? Because working for less than it takes to survive is slavery.

Slavery on who's part? NO ONE forces ANYONE to take a job.

YOUR idea of slavery is SUBJECTIVE.

 

[JoeNormal]

How does a dishwasher or janitor or cashier 'help to create'?

Now if I CHOOSE with my FREEDOM to boost the employees who have given supreme effort with a salary increase, bonus, or share of the profits... that is one thing... to state that even the lowest level of employee must or should increase in earnings because the top of the business is increasing theirs, is ridiculous

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

And there is where the subjectivity comes in... what you think is enough to survive? What is survive to you?

Now... I do believe a company that wants to succeed will compensate employees accordingly, if they want workers to stay, advance, etc... But that is still a choice of the company... In my youth I worked in a restaurant where busboys made almost twice minimum wage and still got a share of tips from the wait staff, and that was a place that was sought after for work and made a nice profit off of customers who wanted top level service... Now does a roach coach necessarily worry about that or do they worry about volume and severe cost savings?

But everything still comes down to the individual who is working for a living. You start off in a minimum wage job at 16 because you are inexperienced, unskilled, etc... and as your needs, wants, and responsibilities grow, so should your approach toward work and your career... Now SHOULD an employer be required to worry that you are a 30 year old person with 3 kids and not a teenager when you still only offer the bare minimum of skills or value?? Not really, IMHO

There will always be employers who, left to their own devices, will pay the absolute minimum they possibly can, will scrimp on safety equipment or procedures or will use substandard parts or ingredients. I'm glad I live in a place where companies have no choice but to adhere to some minimum standards. And to me, minimum wage is one of the areas that needs to be regulated.

 

[DiamondDave]

How do you afford internet on welfare?

I asked why you think that. You've deflected. Typical.

You don't know why I would think that? Because working for less than it takes to survive is slavery.

Again... your 'living wage' or idea of survival is subjective.... and is not the survival needs of a teen different than that of someone living out on their own and different than that of a family of 4??

And again... is not your situation dependent on you and as your needs/wants/responsibilities grow, should not your work ethic and skills grow?? Thus making you more in demand, more skilled, and able to earn more??

 

[DiamondDave]

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

And there is where the subjectivity comes in... what you think is enough to survive? What is survive to you?

Now... I do believe a company that wants to succeed will compensate employees accordingly, if they want workers to stay, advance, etc... But that is still a choice of the company... In my youth I worked in a restaurant where busboys made almost twice minimum wage and still got a share of tips from the wait staff, and that was a place that was sought after for work and made a nice profit off of customers who wanted top level service... Now does a roach coach necessarily worry about that or do they worry about volume and severe cost savings?

But everything still comes down to the individual who is working for a living. You start off in a minimum wage job at 16 because you are inexperienced, unskilled, etc... and as your needs, wants, and responsibilities grow, so should your approach toward work and your career... Now SHOULD an employer be required to worry that you are a 30 year old person with 3 kids and not a teenager when you still only offer the bare minimum of skills or value?? Not really, IMHO

There will always be employers who, left to their own devices, will pay the absolute minimum they possibly can, will scrimp on safety equipment or procedures or will use substandard parts or ingredients. I'm glad I live in a place where companies have no choice but to adhere to some minimum standards. And to me, minimum wage is one more area that needs to be regulated.

That happens in a free society.. and that employer would have to weigh whether that is right for them.. whether attrition is an issue... whether a low level of customer service or productivity is worth it

How many minimum standards should there be? Does government always know and do best??? Or are you best capable of improving your own situation? Are you (as a person or company) more capable of making your own decisions and reaping the consequences of your own actions?

 

[JoeNormal]

I asked why you think that. You've deflected. Typical.

You don't know why I would think that? Because working for less than it takes to survive is slavery.

Slavery on who's part? NO ONE forces ANYONE to take a job.

YOUR idea of slavery is SUBJECTIVE.

You don't seem to be too much of a student of history. Why don't you read a little about the working conditions in the earlier part of the 20th century and get back to me.

 

[Samson]

I asked why you think that. You've deflected. Typical.

You don't know why I would think that? Because working for less than it takes to survive is slavery.

Slavery on who's part? NO ONE forces ANYONE to take a job.

YOUR idea of slavery is SUBJECTIVE.

Actually Slaves have no choice.

Presumably, free individuals are able to make their own choices: Of course, if they're not bright enough to figure this out.......

 

[The Rabbi]

You don't know why I would think that? Because working for less than it takes to survive is slavery.

Slavery on who's part? NO ONE forces ANYONE to take a job.

YOUR idea of slavery is SUBJECTIVE.

You don't seem to be too much of a student of history. Why don't you read a little about the working conditions in the earlier part of the 20th century and get back to me.

You seem like an idiot. Why don't you go read the history of teen unemployment in the face of rising min wage and then a book on economics and get back to us.
No one forces anyone to take a job. Got it?

 

[The T]

You don't know why I would think that? Because working for less than it takes to survive is slavery.

Slavery on who's part? NO ONE forces ANYONE to take a job.

YOUR idea of slavery is SUBJECTIVE.

You don't seem to be too much of a student of history. Why don't you read a little about the working conditions in the earlier part of the 20th century and get back to me.

*I* enjoy history. REVEL in it.

We aren't IN the 20th Century or even the earlier part of it, are we?

WHY do you dwell in the past that is irrelevant?

Good Statist. Heel. Stay! Good boy!

IDIOT.