How did the Universe get here?

[Youwerecreated]

And how did that work out for him? Now be,specific.. What was this " vital agent" in the end of all his deliberations? What did he describe? Whatv single thing is so well known for?


Come on, you can do it... It's right there. Instead of proving god, he proved what?

how about life?
that the laws and energy in life
followed certain patterns?

Gravity. He went looking for and found gravity.

What part of creation confuses you ?

 

[Boss]

Gravity. He went looking for and found gravity.

I'll pose the same question to you as I did to eddy... Prove gravity isn't spiritual?

 

[dnsmith35]

Proof of religion or no religion is irrelevant. He who believes will believe. When there is argument about religion it is little more than one individual expressing his opinion to another.

Reading the threads in Religion and Philosophy makes me wonder about people. Those who blame religion for all sorts of ills are simply expressing their disappointment that "religion" is responsible for their own shortcomings.

It doesn't matter if you believe in intelligent design or the big bang theory because those who truly believe know that their God can do what ever s/he wants and in the manner wanted. Those who blame religion should recognize it is not the religion which does the "evil" in the world, but those who profess religion but don't follow it.

Those who argue about WHAT religion is the ONLY TRUE religion should recognize that if God chooses to give people of a given culture devine inspiration to believe in him, it is likely they will envision God based on their own culture.

In my opinion all the major, if not all religions, are divine inspiration, and the evil done in the name of religion is done by evil people, not the religion.

 

[Boss]

[MENTION=33777]dnsmith35[/MENTION] ...first of all, well said.

Those who blame religion should recognize it is not the religion which does the "evil" in the world, but those who profess religion but don't follow it.

I think this relates to the point I have made as well as the point emily has tried to make. Atheists will point to the bad things that happen in the world and question God, but imagine if everyone on the planet truly and earnestly walked with God? If everyone was praying at the same time for universal forgiveness, peace, love, tolerance, understanding... it would make a difference.

 

[Derideo_Te]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

Utterly false assumption.

The Universe as we know it has not always existed and will alter to a form that we would not recognize in the future.

However the matter and energy that comprises the Universe has always existed and will always exist.

Ergo there is no "beginning" nor "end" to the Universe itself.

Our understanding of the Universe is evolving. We are only aware of that aspect that we can observe. The math tells us there is more that we don't know than do know.

From what we do know there is zero evidence of any "creator".

 

[Derideo_Te]

Antony Flew was a reknown Atheist for most of his life. He is probably best known to Atheists for his "No True Scotsman" argument. He is said to have concluded by the age of 15 that there was no God. This was not a man who was undecided or meek in his Atheistic beliefs, he was a devoutly Atheistic person who argued vociferously with theists on the concept of God. In 2004, he converted to theism because of "the apparent impossibility of providing a naturalistic theory of the origin from DNA of the first reproducing species."

Here is another such testimony from Philip Vander Elst.

"Growing up in a non-Christian family with intellectually gifted but unbelieving parents, I used to think that belief in God and the supernatural had been discredited by the advance of science, and was incompatible with liberty. Religious faith seemed to me to involve the blind worship of a cosmic dictator, and the abandonment of reason in favour of ‘revelation’. Why, in any case, should I take religion seriously, I thought, when the existence of evil and suffering clearly discredited the Christian claim that our world owed its existence to a benevolent Creator?"

Here are but two examples of people who believed as strongly as anyone on this forum that God was not real, did not exist, was a silly and foolish notion to believe in. Yet we see, they changed their minds. There are literally thousands of such examples, and this happens daily around the world. It's not because they are stupid or weak minded, it's not because some televangelist is beating them over the head with a Bible, and it's not because they've been brainwashed by religion. Quite simply, it's because they dared to open their minds and explore the possibilities objectively.

Too many of you are simply stuck in a rut. You've made up your minds and nothing can change it. But the mere fact that you spend such inordinate amounts of your personal time, here, debating against God, trying to convince people to believe as you do, that shows you are not fully content with your beliefs. It's not enough satisfaction for you to disbelieve, you need others to disbelieve with you. So you come here, day in and day out, to enter one post after another, garnering strength in support of each other like co-dependent enablers. And it frustrates you because even that is not enough, you have to be mean and vindictive as well, insult and denigrate, attempt to hurt people with your words.

This is where Moonbat usually pops in to interject the "pot and kettle" analogy, but my purpose here is to fight the decline of humanity. I don't need to justify my beliefs. I don't have anything to prove.

Of course you, AKA Don Quixote, haven't established that there is any "decline of humanity" in the first place.

 

[dnsmith35]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

Utterly false assumption.

The Universe as we know it has not always existed and will alter to a form that we would not recognize in the future.

However the matter and energy that comprises the Universe has always existed and will always exist.

Ergo there is no "beginning" nor "end" to the Universe itself.

Our understanding of the Universe is evolving. We are only aware of that aspect that we can observe. The math tells us there is more that we don't know than do know.

From what we do know there is zero evidence of any "creator".

Where did the Math come from? Human minds? Or Devine inspiration? How did the mass come into existence? Can matter be created? Destroyed? Or just changed? And how was it changed? When you can answer those questions I may change my personal opinion. In the mean time, your guess is no better than mine.

 

[Derideo_Te]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

Utterly false assumption.

The Universe as we know it has not always existed and will alter to a form that we would not recognize in the future.

However the matter and energy that comprises the Universe has always existed and will always exist.

Ergo there is no "beginning" nor "end" to the Universe itself.

Our understanding of the Universe is evolving. We are only aware of that aspect that we can observe. The math tells us there is more that we don't know than do know.

From what we do know there is zero evidence of any "creator".

Where did the Math come from? Human minds? Or Devine inspiration? How did the mass come into existence? Can matter be created? Destroyed? Or just changed? And how was it changed? When you can answer those questions I may change my personal opinion. In the mean time, your guess is no better than mine.

Your guess is based upon fairy tales from the Bronze Age.

My position is based upon the actual scientific knowledge that we have to date. The Universe exists because we are part of it. The Universe exhibits certain predictable behaviors that we have formulated into the Laws of Physics which mean they pertain to the physical matter of the Universe. One of those laws has established that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Based upon that law logic dictates that the matter of the Universe has always existed and will always exist in one form or another.

Your questions are based upon false assumptions that don't bear up to scientific rigor. Perhaps if you took advantage of some of the abundant knowledge available to you via the internet you might learn the answers to those questions. But that is up to you. Having enough education to understand the Laws of Physics myself I am no longer concerned with the kinds of questions that most children obtain the answers to while they are still in school.

 

[Yarddog]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

The Universe started sometime during the early formation of the SF Eastern Span of the Bay Bridge , its seems like forever ago but its really not! there currently is a study out to determine if the Universe bolts were galvanized or not. If it can be proved the universe was formed early there is apparently a contractor bonus still forthcoming.

 

[Boss]

My position is based upon the actual scientific knowledge that we have to date.

No it's not. It's based on a speculation from incomplete information to date.

 

[Boss]

However the matter and energy that comprises the Universe has always existed and will always exist.

Hmm... Immortality! Sounds familiar!

 

[Yarddog]

Utterly false assumption.

The Universe as we know it has not always existed and will alter to a form that we would not recognize in the future.

However the matter and energy that comprises the Universe has always existed and will always exist.

Ergo there is no "beginning" nor "end" to the Universe itself.

Our understanding of the Universe is evolving. We are only aware of that aspect that we can observe. The math tells us there is more that we don't know than do know.

From what we do know there is zero evidence of any "creator".

Where did the Math come from? Human minds? Or Devine inspiration? How did the mass come into existence? Can matter be created? Destroyed? Or just changed? And how was it changed? When you can answer those questions I may change my personal opinion. In the mean time, your guess is no better than mine.

Your guess is based upon fairy tales from the Bronze Age.

My position is based upon the actual scientific knowledge that we have to date. The Universe exists because we are part of it. The Universe exhibits certain predictable behaviors that we have formulated into the Laws of Physics which mean they pertain to the physical matter of the Universe. One of those laws has established that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Based upon that law logic dictates that the matter of the Universe has always existed and will always exist in one form or another.

Your questions are based upon false assumptions that don't bear up to scientific rigor. Perhaps if you took advantage of some of the abundant knowledge available to you via the internet you might learn the answers to those questions. But that is up to you. Having enough education to understand the Laws of Physics myself I am no longer concerned with the kinds of questions that most children obtain the answers to while they are still in school.

MMMM Quantum physics,, crazy stuff hard to wrap the brain around

 

[Derideo_Te]

My position is based upon the actual scientific knowledge that we have to date.

No it's not. It's based on a speculation from incomplete information to date.

Projecting your own shortcomings again?

 

[Boss]

From what we do know there is zero evidence of any "creator".

The universe is in motion. According to Newton, there is no such thing as spontaneous motion.

 

[Boss]

My position is based upon the actual scientific knowledge that we have to date.

No it's not. It's based on a speculation from incomplete information to date.

Projecting your own shortcomings again?

Nope. Just stating a fact. Your little knitting circle is as "religiously faithful" as GISYMS, you just have faith in a different "truth" is all.

 

[dnsmith35]

Utterly false assumption.

The Universe as we know it has not always existed and will alter to a form that we would not recognize in the future.

However the matter and energy that comprises the Universe has always existed and will always exist.

Ergo there is no "beginning" nor "end" to the Universe itself.

Our understanding of the Universe is evolving. We are only aware of that aspect that we can observe. The math tells us there is more that we don't know than do know.

From what we do know there is zero evidence of any "creator".

Where did the Math come from? Human minds? Or Devine inspiration? How did the mass come into existence? Can matter be created? Destroyed? Or just changed? And how was it changed? When you can answer those questions I may change my personal opinion. In the mean time, your guess is no better than mine.

Your guess is based upon fairy tales from the Bronze Age.

Your guess is based on atheistic superstition.

My position is based upon the actual scientific knowledge that we have to date.

Scientific knowledge has not disproved the existence of a higher power, or God, or what ever you chose to call him.

The Universe exists because we are part of it. The Universe exhibits certain predictable behaviors that we have formulated into the Laws of Physics which mean they pertain to the physical matter of the Universe.

Looks to me like the laws of physics is nothing more than the laws of God, and you have not a single iota of proof to the contrary.

One of those laws has established that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Based upon that law logic dictates that the matter of the Universe has always existed and will always exist in one form or another.

You need to look at your modern physics laws, which suggest that MATTER CAN IN FACT BE CREATED.

Your questions are based upon false assumptions that don't bear up to scientific rigor.

Your answers will not bear up to scientific knowledge rigor.

Perhaps if you took advantage of some of the abundant knowledge available to you via the internet you might learn the answers to those questions.

The internet contains abundant knowledge and abundance of lies.

But that is up to you. Having enough education to understand the Laws of Physics myself I am no longer concerned with the kinds of questions that most children obtain the answers to while they are still in school.

What you have are guesses based on atheistic legend, not the laws of physics or the laws of man. I also doubt you have any more education than I, and I certainly do not give you credit for any vast knowledge of the universe.

As it stands, there is NO PHYSICAL PROOF GOD EXISTS AND THERE IS NO PHYSICAL PROOF THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST. I believe because I choose to believe that the world and all its beauty has not and could not have come to pass by chance alone. What you believe is your business, but when you CLAIM THAT KNOWLEDGE YOU SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE.

 

[Derideo_Te]

From what we do know there is zero evidence of any "creator".

The universe is in motion. According to Newton, there is no such thing as spontaneous motion.

The currently observed motion stems from an event that occurred 13.7 billion years ago. This is consistent with Newton.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Where did the Math come from? Human minds? Or Devine inspiration? How did the mass come into existence? Can matter be created? Destroyed? Or just changed? And how was it changed? When you can answer those questions I may change my personal opinion. In the mean time, your guess is no better than mine.

Your guess is based on atheistic superstition. Scientific knowledge has not disproved the existence of a higher power, or God, or what ever you chose to call him.Looks to me like the laws of physics is nothing more than the laws of God, and you have not a single iota of proof to the contrary.You need to look at your modern physics laws, which suggest that MATTER CAN IN FACT BE CREATED.Your answers will not bear up to scientific knowledge rigor.The internet contains abundant knowledge and abundance of lies.

But that is up to you. Having enough education to understand the Laws of Physics myself I am no longer concerned with the kinds of questions that most children obtain the answers to while they are still in school.

What you have are guesses based on atheistic legend, not the laws of physics or the laws of man. I also doubt you have any more education than I, and I certainly do not give you credit for any vast knowledge of the universe.

As it stands, there is NO PHYSICAL PROOF GOD EXISTS AND THERE IS NO PHYSICAL PROOF THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST. I believe because I choose to believe that the world and all its beauty has not and could not have come to pass by chance alone. What you believe is your business, but when you CLAIM THAT KNOWLEDGE YOU SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE.

Needless to say it would be a waste of time expecting you to provide credible links to support your allegations!

 

[Derideo_Te]

No it's not. It's based on a speculation from incomplete information to date.

Projecting your own shortcomings again?

Nope. Just stating a fact. Your little knitting circle is as "religiously faithful" as GISYMS, you just have faith in a different "truth" is all.

You have yet to encounter a "fact" that you couldn't deny.

So no, I am not going to play your moronic "whack-a-boss" games.

You have zero credibility and negative honesty and integrity!

Have a nice day.

 

[emilynghiem]

Of course you, AKA Don Quixote, haven't established that there is any "decline of humanity" in the first place.

Ha ha [MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION] thanks for chiming in.

For "decline of humanity" I was going to point to proof by comparing
the popularity of reality TV versus historic classics (like "Don Quixote"?)
but that would not be fair. Because of our broader access to media technology,
which is a huge advancement, of course, there is going to be more garbage as well.

To be fair, neither Boss nor you nor anyone here needs to prove your
understanding of "what is spiritual" or "what areas are declining"
This is not necessary to bring about agreement on vital points.

As long as we agree X is positive for humanity's future and
Y is negative or unsustainable, we can have the same discussions
and likely arrive at better conclusions faster than arguing over
our reasons for seeing X as good and Y as bad. Can't we agree on
that without challenging each other's systems of reasoning?
My bf and I agree don't agree on how we got our answers,
but we agree X is right and Y is wrong. Can we focus there instead?

On what works which we should pursue in unified agreement
and what fails which we should avoid and prevent where we can.
Hagging over points that are not necessary does not work for me, can we do better?
Thanks for your help to point out those places that do not work!
So we can eliminate and stick to points that do. I will ask Boss to do the same,
or he will try to answer and defend each point which isn't necessary but distracting.