How did Birth Control become a right?

[jc456]

As a Canadian reading some of these posts, I'm reminded that Americans have an odd (to me) notion of rights. Of course, every American has an absolute right to have a gun, despite its ultimate harm to your society. But health care? Meh. The only right to health care is what you can afford to pay for yourself, despite the fact that a healthy population benefits your society. Bizarre.

why not just make a fking doctor visit affordable and do away with insurance? why is that so difficult?

Why not make ALL medical care freely, financially available to all who need it? Why is that so difficult? That's what every civilized country in the world does.

all medical care is not free and you sound stupid making that statement. people in other countries pay twice our taxes to get what you loosely call free. too funny a lib. a thirty dollar office visit becomes worth one thousand cause people carry insurance. how fked up is that? but hey, you stick with that free medical care fake shit.

I did not say that medical care was free. I said that medical care should be freely available, regardless of the financial resources of the sick.

Though not disagreeing with you that the American system is fucked seven ways from Sunday, including the ridiculous charge rates for medical procedures.

But the root of the problem is this bizarre idea that people should spend money when they are sick. Because otherwise its not "fair".

don't disagree at all. But I do know throwing money at it won't solve it.

 

[Coyote]

I don't think cancer treatment, as one example, would ever be affordable to most people.

How do you figure? why are you against someone paying for services rather than giving them away? fk coyote, why pay for anything? and there is your answer.

You are creating straw men

no I'm not, that is a fact and you don't like to look at facts.

No one suggested services be given away. You are investing in a straw man.

sure you are. how else does one with nothing get something? it's given to them for free. and at my cost. and then you don't think those giving the free service should say anything to these ungrateful freeloaders. too funny.

Affordable is not necessarily free.

 

[BlackSand]

It is immoral not to provide free birth control as the world's population outgrows its resources.

Really ... Is that how you intend to explain the morality of punching a hole in a baby's skull and scrambling its brains ...

.

 

[jc456]

why not just make a fking doctor visit affordable and do away with insurance? why is that so difficult?

Why not make ALL medical care freely, financially available to all who need it? Why is that so difficult? That's what every civilized country in the world does.

all medical care is not free and you sound stupid making that statement. people in other countries pay twice our taxes to get what you loosely call free. too funny a lib. a thirty dollar office visit becomes worth one thousand cause people carry insurance. how fked up is that? but hey, you stick with that free medical care fake shit.

A thirty dollar office visit won't pay for cancer treatment.

why not?

Marketplace economics.

exactly and why is it soooooo expensive? because of healthcare?

 

[jc456]

How do you figure? why are you against someone paying for services rather than giving them away? fk coyote, why pay for anything? and there is your answer.

You are creating straw men

no I'm not, that is a fact and you don't like to look at facts.

No one suggested services be given away. You are investing in a straw man.

sure you are. how else does one with nothing get something? it's given to them for free. and at my cost. and then you don't think those giving the free service should say anything to these ungrateful freeloaders. too funny.

Affordable is not necessarily free.

affordable doesn't exist. free exists. try to get to affordable and the libturds start calling you names. funny how they operate ain't it. I want to find a way to fix healthcare, not argue over who should get health insurance.

 

[Meathead]

As a Canadian reading some of these posts, I'm reminded that Americans have an odd (to me) notion of rights. Of course, every American has an absolute right to have a gun, despite its ultimate harm to your society. But health care? Meh. The only right to health care is what you can afford to pay for yourself, despite the fact that a healthy population benefits your society. Bizarre.

It would be bizarre if taxpayers' money were used to buy guns for citizens. A stupid false equivalency if I've ever seen one. Dingbat stuff.

The equivalence, which is entirely valid, is in tying rights (or lack of) to money. That only those with money have rights.

That's as tired as it is besides the point. No one is forced to buy a gun, but with Obamacare, people are forced to buy health insurance. No one has to pay taxes to buy weapons for citizens, yet they are forced to pay taxes to subsidize the insurance of others. It is the taxpayers money, not yours or the women's who are unable to control the spawn of their sex lives. Do you get that?

 

[Shusha]

Going back to birth control, why should employers have the right to pick and choose which kinds of medial care an employee should or should not receive?

As a childless employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who choose to have children?

As a vegan employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who eat meat?

As a fit employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to employees who are fat?

Why should any employer have the right to choose whether or not an employee has access to a certain kind of health care?

 

[Coyote]

Why not make ALL medical care freely, financially available to all who need it? Why is that so difficult? That's what every civilized country in the world does.

all medical care is not free and you sound stupid making that statement. people in other countries pay twice our taxes to get what you loosely call free. too funny a lib. a thirty dollar office visit becomes worth one thousand cause people carry insurance. how fked up is that? but hey, you stick with that free medical care fake shit.

A thirty dollar office visit won't pay for cancer treatment.

why not?

Marketplace economics.

exactly and why is it soooooo expensive? because of healthcare?

There are a lot of reasons for the high cost, some of which we may very well agree on. But some of those reasons are due to advances in medical care and diagnostics that add greatly to cost. Medicine is a long ways from what it was fifty years ago when a childhood friend died of leukemia.

 

[Coyote]

Going back to birth control, why should employers have the right to pick and choose which kinds of medial care an employee should or should not receive?

As a childless employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who choose to have children?

As a vegan employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who eat meat?

As a fit employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to employees who are fat?

Why should any employer have the right to choose whether or not an employee has access to a certain kind of health care?

Good questions! The employee also pays into the policy...

 

[jc456]

all medical care is not free and you sound stupid making that statement. people in other countries pay twice our taxes to get what you loosely call free. too funny a lib. a thirty dollar office visit becomes worth one thousand cause people carry insurance. how fked up is that? but hey, you stick with that free medical care fake shit.

A thirty dollar office visit won't pay for cancer treatment.

why not?

Marketplace economics.

exactly and why is it soooooo expensive? because of healthcare?

There are a lot of reasons for the high cost, some of which we may very well agree on. But some of those reasons are due to advances in medical care and diagnostics that add greatly to cost. Medicine is a long ways from what it was fifty years ago when a childhood friend died of leukemia.

cancer centers get funded by private citizens all the time. there is no need for the expenses passed to the patient. just isn't. it's sad

 

[BlackSand]

Going back to birth control, why should employers have the right to pick and choose which kinds of medial care an employee should or should not receive?

As a childless employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who choose to have children?

As a vegan employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who eat meat?

As a fit employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to employees who are fat?

Why should any employer have the right to choose whether or not an employee has access to a certain kind of health care?

As an employer ... You don't have the right to deny medical care to anyone ... You don't have the obligation to provide medical care either.
You are free to do as you see fit ... And the Constitution doesn't grant the federal government power to make you do any different.

.

 

[Coyote]

You are creating straw men

no I'm not, that is a fact and you don't like to look at facts.

No one suggested services be given away. You are investing in a straw man.

sure you are. how else does one with nothing get something? it's given to them for free. and at my cost. and then you don't think those giving the free service should say anything to these ungrateful freeloaders. too funny.

Affordable is not necessarily free.

affordable doesn't exist. free exists. try to get to affordable and the libturds start calling you names. funny how they operate ain't it. I want to find a way to fix healthcare, not argue over who should get health insurance.

I have affordable medical care. The only names I'm seeing being called seem to be coming from you...

 

[Shusha]

As a Canadian reading some of these posts, I'm reminded that Americans have an odd (to me) notion of rights. Of course, every American has an absolute right to have a gun, despite its ultimate harm to your society. But health care? Meh. The only right to health care is what you can afford to pay for yourself, despite the fact that a healthy population benefits your society. Bizarre.

It would be bizarre if taxpayers' money were used to buy guns for citizens. A stupid false equivalency if I've ever seen one. Dingbat stuff.

The equivalence, which is entirely valid, is in tying rights (or lack of) to money. That only those with money have rights.

That's as tired as it is besides the point. No one is forced to buy a gun, but with Obamacare, people are forced to buy health insurance. No one has to pay taxes to buy weapons for citizens, yet they are forced to pay taxes to subsidize the insurance of others. It is the taxpayers money, not yours or the women's who are unable to control the spawn of their sex lives. Do you get that?

Oh, boy, as a Canadian, do I EVER get that. See, here in Canada, and in most of the civilized world, we pay taxes as a collective in order to improve the welfare of all Canadians. Yes, we actually PAY money to help each other. We actually choose to subsidize those who need it. Because it benefits us all. The HORROR!

And, your comment about "women being unable to control the spawn of their sex lives" is as telling as it is ugly.

 

[jc456]

Going back to birth control, why should employers have the right to pick and choose which kinds of medial care an employee should or should not receive?

As a childless employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who choose to have children?

As a vegan employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to those employees who eat meat?

As a fit employer, should I have the right to deny medical care to employees who are fat?

Why should any employer have the right to choose whether or not an employee has access to a certain kind of health care?

Good questions! The employee also pays into the policy...

all of them for the same coverage's, even ones they will never use. that is the argument.

 

[Coyote]

A thirty dollar office visit won't pay for cancer treatment.

why not?

Marketplace economics.

exactly and why is it soooooo expensive? because of healthcare?

There are a lot of reasons for the high cost, some of which we may very well agree on. But some of those reasons are due to advances in medical care and diagnostics that add greatly to cost. Medicine is a long ways from what it was fifty years ago when a childhood friend died of leukemia.

cancer centers get funded by private citizens all the time. there is no need for the expenses passed to the patient. just isn't. it's sad

Interesting thought...are you suggesting it is possible for everyone to get free cancer treatment? Because I'm a bit skeptical here...

 

[Shusha]

sure you are. how else does one with nothing get something? it's given to them for free. and at my cost. and then you don't think those giving the free service should say anything to these ungrateful freeloaders. too funny.

See? American healthcare culture. People have no right to anything unless they can pay for it themselves.

 

[jc456]

no I'm not, that is a fact and you don't like to look at facts.

No one suggested services be given away. You are investing in a straw man.

sure you are. how else does one with nothing get something? it's given to them for free. and at my cost. and then you don't think those giving the free service should say anything to these ungrateful freeloaders. too funny.

Affordable is not necessarily free.

affordable doesn't exist. free exists. try to get to affordable and the libturds start calling you names. funny how they operate ain't it. I want to find a way to fix healthcare, not argue over who should get health insurance.

I have affordable medical care. The only names I'm seeing being called seem to be coming from you...

you don't like the term libturd or freeloader? hmmm too bad. I have affordable medical care as well, however, it doesn't mean out of pocket expenses aren't required first. you? you have a deductable? you ever meet your deductable? me either. so I pay for the doctor visit out of my money first. does a freeloader? just asking if the freeloader doesn't get better than me paying the freeloader.

 

[Coyote]

sure you are. how else does one with nothing get something? it's given to them for free. and at my cost. and then you don't think those giving the free service should say anything to these ungrateful freeloaders. too funny.

See? American healthcare culture. People have no right to anything unless they can pay for it themselves.

And that is something I hope will change...

 

[jc456]

As a Canadian reading some of these posts, I'm reminded that Americans have an odd (to me) notion of rights. Of course, every American has an absolute right to have a gun, despite its ultimate harm to your society. But health care? Meh. The only right to health care is what you can afford to pay for yourself, despite the fact that a healthy population benefits your society. Bizarre.

It would be bizarre if taxpayers' money were used to buy guns for citizens. A stupid false equivalency if I've ever seen one. Dingbat stuff.

The equivalence, which is entirely valid, is in tying rights (or lack of) to money. That only those with money have rights.

That's as tired as it is besides the point. No one is forced to buy a gun, but with Obamacare, people are forced to buy health insurance. No one has to pay taxes to buy weapons for citizens, yet they are forced to pay taxes to subsidize the insurance of others. It is the taxpayers money, not yours or the women's who are unable to control the spawn of their sex lives. Do you get that?

Oh, boy, as a Canadian, do I EVER get that. See, here in Canada, and in most of the civilized world, we pay taxes as a collective in order to improve the welfare of all Canadians. Yes, we actually PAY money to help each other. We actually choose to subsidize those who need it. Because it benefits us all. The HORROR!

And, your comment about "women being unable to control the spawn of their sex lives" is as telling as it is ugly.

why is it one must wait months for a procedure then? why do many canadians come to doctors here in the US? If it's sooooo great and all.

 

[Shusha]

sure you are. how else does one with nothing get something? it's given to them for free. and at my cost. and then you don't think those giving the free service should say anything to these ungrateful freeloaders. too funny.

See? American healthcare culture. People have no right to anything unless they can pay for it themselves.

And that is something I hope will change...

We can hope and try to do the work, even if its in the somewhat futile attempt to educate people on boards like this.