CDZ How can one defend the Israel vaccine numbers?

[sakinago]

sakinago

Have you viewed this, , . if so, what do you think?

A Final Warning to Humanity from Former Pfizer Chief Scientist Michael Yeadon​

. . . I enjoyed this thread and all the hard work you put into it.


Thank you.

I watched about a 1/3 of it. I agree with all of his premises in that third, so as long as he doesn’t make any grand leaps later on, he seems pretty solid.

 

[sakinago]

Yes but we showed an age-related consequence moving back toward the 6-year-old pole. Thus, we don’t have enough historical knowledge of the potential myo. Carpel tunnel is interesting, because that links to smallpox vaccinations given in that location: Lake Chad is a geographical example: islamic vaccinations are given in the wrist area.

Hahaha no, I meant I didn’t feel like typing more than I felt I had too because of my carpel tunnel.

 

[MadChemist]

There’s a reason Israel is not having the numbers of deaths and hospitalizations with more serious cases. They aren’t stupid enough to listen to shit for brains right wingers in other countries.

They are having plenty of all of those things......sorry to have to point that out.

 

[MadChemist]

So what is your solution, do nothing and let nature take it course like it did back in the old days? LOL

She's already elucidated established treatments.

 

[MadChemist]

Can you actually address any of the points I brought up? With actual data and science? 11000 confirmed deaths from this vaccine. 30,000 hospitalizations. 8,800 of those life threatening. Can you at least explain to me why we are pushing this vaccine on children when the flu is more dangerous to them, and they don’t spread COVID? Just that one question. Why push this on children?

I doubt she can.

 

[sartre play]

We have enough problems with our own numbers.

 

[badger2]

Vaxxed and unvaxxed have the same viral loads in nose and throat, not in other comparative locations in the body, so masks are required. Smallpox vaccination is given in the wrist in Chad, so there’s less virus in Chadian wrists.

 

[sjay]

I don't "believe" anything.

I know that coronaviruses existed before. I know they were in bats and other animals and they didn't have much of an impact on them. I know viruses can go from species to species. I know viruses can mutate.

I also know that after SARS the Chinese were researching coronaviruses. Why, I don't know and you don't know.

But I guess it must make you feel powerful to make stuff up and pass it off as reality.

I do know that if China were going to use the coronavirus as a biological weapon, they wouldn't have set it off in WUHAN.

What the hell does Chinatown have to do with China? Most of people in Chinatown are people who hate the CCP, they're people who left the Chinese system and went to a more capitalist system.

The fact that simple minded right wingers would equate Chinatown with China is the sort of thing Pelosi would have been trying to combat. The coronavirus wouldn't have sprung up in Chinatown because the virus is in China. That's too simplistic and idiotic.

 

[sjay]

frigid it's useless to try to reason with mental midgets like the great satan their double digit iqs are below logic abilities.

 

[sakinago]

frigid it's useless to try to reason with mental midgets like the great satan their double digit iqs are below logic abilities.

Right. Frigid did a great job at arguing for the vaccine. His arguments aged so well....oh wait, the manufacturers just agreed with me...whoops.

Do y’all not actually read the news? I guess you listen to what the big pharma sponsored talking heads tell you.

 

[otto105]

Wow a lot of faulty premises here, as well as poor understanding of basic math and statistical. Divide those numbers by the population, Israel is 8.8 million, the US is 333 million. You get a death rate of .0000099 for the US and .0000004 for Israel. If that’s too many zeros for you, just know it’s a difference of 5 vs 6 decimal places. Stop listening/reading whoever it is you are reading.

let’s tackle the faulty premises. First I never argue that the US COVID policy is great. I argue that it is god awful and killing far more people than necessary. Second, you can’t compare the population of Israel, a country that is among the lowest obesity rate in the developed world vs the US. Obesity is the highest co morbidity with COVID. Thirdly I’ve never argued that the vaccine doesn’t work. Although the more time goes on, the more it appears it’s efficacy is dropping like a rock. I’ve argued that it is dangerous as far as vaccines/treatments go. It is. That’s undeniable. Not saying if you take it you’re likely to have an adverse event. This is the most dangerous vaccine ever created by far. Which brings me to three questions.

1. Why are we pushing the most dangerous vaccine ever created onto people under 30, especially young children, whose risk from COVID is statistically zero. Myocarditis and six year olds don’t really mix

2. Why are we pushing the most dangerous vaccine in existence without determining whether or not someone has already attained natural immunity that is around 100 times more robust than a vaccine with more efficacy than these mRNA vaccines.

3. Why is the US suppressing very effective treatments like ivermectin. The numbers are in. Ivermectin is basically a miracle drug against COVID. Ask India.

No data available to suggest a link between India’s reduction of COVID-19 cases and the use of ivermectin

 

[sakinago]

No data available to suggest a link between India’s reduction of COVID-19 cases and the use of ivermectin

No data available to suggest a link between India’s reduction of COVID-19 cases and the use of ivermectin

This “fact check” is a flat out lie. Rule of thumb. When the fact checkers you reference overtly lie to you, you are both dumb and/or lazy, and are on the wrong side. I have already posted the data from India. Look at it. The provinces like Delhi and Udar Pradesh that used ivermectin sliced their bell curves in half compared to the provinces that did not. Notice that your “fact check” isn’t even differentiating between provinces that did and did not use ivermectin. Kind of a big problem isn’t it? The India data is so unassailable that the Indian bar association (the highest law authority in India) is coming after the officials in provinces who chose not to use ivermectin with the death penalty. From your retarded fact check site.

“Both ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine were touted as potential treatments for COVID-19. However, international health agencies such as the World Health Organization pointed out the lack of clinical evidence supporting such expectations.”
This is a flat out lie here. I’ve already referenced this WHO study in this thread. They found 81% effectiveness, and came to the conclusion that it should be studied more instead of recommending immediate use. Which I argued was a ridiculous considering that which they already recommend with far far far less studies, patients, standards, and efficacy. We’ll get to that later. The fact checks entire conclusion rests on this study. Whoopsie.
So, here’s the actual studies on ivermectin. All of them

https://ivmmeta.com/

Meta analysis of all ivermectin studies done in relation to treating COVID. 60 studies total. No studies excluded to eliminate selection bias. 42 peer reviewed. 30 of which are randomized controlled studies, the gold standard. Over 23,000 patients in ivermectin studies.

Their findings(per the meta analysis from the randomized controlled studies alone):
Ivermectin as prophylactic -84% efficacy
Ivermectin with early treatment - 67%
Late stage treatment - 30%.

“The probability that an ineffective treatment generated results as positive as the 61 studies to date is estimated to be 1 in 354 billion (p = 0.0000000000028). “ Is that number good? Did ivermectin break it?

How about those other treatments that the WHO and our NIH recommends. Let’s take a look. How about the amount studies, amount of patients, and the determined efficacy.

Budesonide- 1 study - 1779
Patients -17% improvement.

Remdisivir- 1 study - 1063 patients -31% improvement (this study didn’t age well, also a whoopsie).

Idevimab-1 study - 799 patients -66% improvement

What was ivermectin at again?

ivermectin- 61 studies -23,285 patients -70% improvement
It’s quite a doosie of a claim to say that there’s “no data to suggest” with all of that. Unless you wish to argue that Indians are somehow genetically different and the same laws of medicine don’t apply to them as the people in these studies. It’s also a doosie when the WHO data they cite says otherwise.

 

[otto105]

This “fact check” is a flat out lie. Rule of thumb. When the fact checkers you reference overtly lie to you, you are both dumb and/or lazy, and are on the wrong side. I have already posted the data from India. Look at it. The provinces like Delhi and Udar Pradesh that used ivermectin sliced their bell curves in half compared to the provinces that did not. Notice that your “fact check” isn’t even differentiating between provinces that did and did not use ivermectin. Kind of a big problem isn’t it? The India data is so unassailable that the Indian bar association (the highest law authority in India) is coming after the officials in provinces who chose not to use ivermectin with the death penalty. From your retarded fact check site.

“Both ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine were touted as potential treatments for COVID-19. However, international health agencies such as the World Health Organization pointed out the lack of clinical evidence supporting such expectations.”
This is a flat out lie here. I’ve already referenced this WHO study in this thread. They found 81% effectiveness, and came to the conclusion that it should be studied more instead of recommending immediate use. Which I argued was a ridiculous considering that which they already recommend with far far far less studies, patients, standards, and efficacy. We’ll get to that later. The fact checks entire conclusion rests on this study. Whoopsie.
So, here’s the actual studies on ivermectin. All of them

https://ivmmeta.com/

Meta analysis of all ivermectin studies done in relation to treating COVID. 60 studies total. No studies excluded to eliminate selection bias. 42 peer reviewed. 30 of which are randomized controlled studies, the gold standard. Over 23,000 patients in ivermectin studies.

Their findings(per the meta analysis from the randomized controlled studies alone):
Ivermectin as prophylactic -84% efficacy
Ivermectin with early treatment - 67%
Late stage treatment - 30%.

“The probability that an ineffective treatment generated results as positive as the 61 studies to date is estimated to be 1 in 354 billion (p = 0.0000000000028). “ Is that number good? Did ivermectin break it?

How about those other treatments that the WHO and our NIH recommends. Let’s take a look. How about the amount studies, amount of patients, and the determined efficacy.

Budesonide- 1 study - 1779
Patients -17% improvement.

Remdisivir- 1 study - 1063 patients -31% improvement (this study didn’t age well, also a whoopsie).

Idevimab-1 study - 799 patients -66% improvement

What was ivermectin at again?

ivermectin- 61 studies -23,285 patients -70% improvement
It’s quite a doosie of a claim to say that there’s “no data to suggest” with all of that. Unless you wish to argue that Indians are somehow genetically different and the same laws of medicine don’t apply to them as the people in these studies. It’s also a doosie when the WHO data they cite says otherwise.

Sure, what is Ivermection?

Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical (on the skin) forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea.

Some forms of ivermectin are used in animals to prevent heartworm disease and certain internal and external parasites. It’s important to note that these products are different from the ones for people, and safe when used as prescribed for animals, only.

Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

Also, the Indian government is not a great source of information on COVID.

 

[sakinago]

Sure, what is Ivermection?

Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical (on the skin) forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea.

Some forms of ivermectin are used in animals to prevent heartworm disease and certain internal and external parasites. It’s important to note that these products are different from the ones for people, and safe when used as prescribed for animals, only.

Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

Also, the Indian government is not a great source of information on COVID.

Oh dear...bless your heart you sweet poor thing. The church of fauci needs to send someone better.

You do realize that copying and pasting from a link, that’s just listing some of the uses of ivermectin (a drug that won the Nobel prize in 2015), is not even close to a rebuttal to 60 studies, Half of which are randomized controlled studies proving its efficacy. In the same way it wouldn’t be an effective rebuttal to say that cars can’t drive on grass because they usually drive on the road.

So I guess in the history of medicine, we’ve never ever ever ever ever found a 2nd off label use for a drug. Oh wait. That’s actually happened thousands of times. With drugs you’re (likely) very familiar with.

And no no no. What you mean is the particular Indian data I posted you do not like. You’re fine with whatever else India posts though, of course that is as long as it furthers your point. You posted a fact check using data from the Indian government. That data was completely useless for many reasons including the fact it didn’t differentiate between the provinces in question that used ivermectin and those that didn’t. You know, something fundamentally important to mention of your focus was to tell the truth and “fact check”. How does that saying go? Numbers tell the truth but people use statistics to lie? India has very low vaccination rates. Why exactly would they not lie about their vaccination rate and make it look better? What exactly is their motivation for making ivermectin look good? There is no way to profit off it since it’s super cheap and no one owns the patent on it anymore.

 

[otto105]

Oh dear...bless your heart you sweet poor thing. The church of fauci needs to send someone better.

You do realize that copying and pasting from a link, that’s just listing some of the uses of ivermectin (a drug that won the Nobel prize in 2015), is not even close to a rebuttal to 60 studies, Half of which are randomized controlled studies proving its efficacy. In the same way it wouldn’t be an effective rebuttal to say that cars can’t drive on grass because they usually drive on the road.

So I guess in the history of medicine, we’ve never ever ever ever ever found a 2nd off label use for a drug. Oh wait. That’s actually happened thousands of times. With drugs you’re (likely) very familiar with.

And no no no. What you mean is the particular Indian data I posted you do not like. You’re fine with whatever else India posts though, of course that is as long as it furthers your point. You posted a fact check using data from the Indian government. That data was completely useless for many reasons including the fact it didn’t differentiate between the provinces in question that used ivermectin and those that didn’t. You know, something fundamentally important to mention of your focus was to tell the truth and “fact check”. How does that saying go? Numbers tell the truth but people use statistics to lie? India has very low vaccination rates. Why exactly would they not lie about their vaccination rate and make it look better? What exactly is their motivation for making ivermectin look good? There is no way to profit off it since it’s super cheap and no one owns the patent on it anymore.

Try again propagandist.

Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

 

[sakinago]

Try again propagandist.

Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

Jesus Christ did you even read this? What specifically in this article is refuting anything that I’ve posted or said? Absolutely nothing. The reasons not to take ivermectin are that it’s not yet FDA approved for COVID use... Um, neither are any of the treatments, including the vaccines, that they are using currently to treat COVID. And the safety and efficacy for COVID is proven far superior than the likes of remdisivir (USAs Big Pharma expensive pet drug) that we push on patients at 5 grand a pop. Oh and also there’s 61 STUDIES VS 1 BOGUS STUDY in favor of remdisivir(which Harvard found doesn’t even work). Ivermectin is literally safer than aspirin. 4 million doses worldwide have been administered.

And let’s talk about propagandist. Don’t we love how our own FDA is trying to associate ivermectin, A DRUG THAT WON THE GODDAMN NOBEL PRIZE IN 2015, with horse dewormer...The drug that won the Nobel prize in 2015, saved millions of lives against malaria, cured millions of cases of river blindness, and hundreds of millions of parasitic scourges world wide...Our FDA equivocates that with horse dewormer. They want to bring up the fact it’s not an anti-viral, as if we’ve never discovered off label uses for any other drug ever...oh wait, that’s happened thousands of times.

Yeah I don’t seem to be the propagandist here. You’ve posted 1 bullshit fact check designed for the plebes like you who don’t actually read the articles and just read the headlines, and another propaganda piece from the actual government with a misleading headline, with an article body that says “don’t use medicine made for horses”. Yeah no shit Sherlock. Re examine your life. You are far too easily duped by not even half way decent propaganda. I actually expect better from the US govt.

P.S. who exactly am I propagandizing for? No one make money off of ivermectin. No country benefits (outside of actually saving the lives of their citizenry) off of ivermectin. In fact the prominent doctors pushing are risking their entire livelihoods and licenses to give their patients this. And big pharma is coming after them hard.

 

[otto105]

Jesus Christ did you even read this? What specifically in this article is refuting anything that I’ve posted or said? Absolutely nothing. The reasons not to take ivermectin are that it’s not yet FDA approved for COVID use... Um, neither are any of the treatments, including the vaccines, that they are using currently to treat COVID. And the safety and efficacy for COVID is proven far superior than the likes of remdisivir (USAs Big Pharma expensive pet drug) that we push on patients at 5 grand a pop. Oh and also there’s 61 STUDIES VS 1 BOGUS STUDY in favor of remdisivir(which Harvard found doesn’t even work). Ivermectin is literally safer than aspirin. 4 million doses worldwide have been administered.

And let’s talk about propagandist. Don’t we love how our own FDA is trying to associate ivermectin, A DRUG THAT WON THE GODDAMN NOBEL PRIZE IN 2015, with horse dewormer...The drug that won the Nobel prize in 2015, saved millions of lives against malaria, cured millions of cases of river blindness, and hundreds of millions of parasitic scourges world wide...Our FDA equivocates that with horse dewormer. They want to bring up the fact it’s not an anti-viral, as if we’ve never discovered off label uses for any other drug ever...oh wait, that’s happened thousands of times.

Yeah I don’t seem to be the propagandist here. You’ve posted 1 bullshit fact check designed for the plebes like you who don’t actually read the articles and just read the headlines, and another propaganda piece from the actual government with a misleading headline, with an article body that says “don’t use medicine made for horses”. Yeah no shit Sherlock. Re examine your life. You are far too easily duped by not even half way decent propaganda. I actually expect better from the US govt.

P.S. who exactly am I propagandizing for? No one make money off of ivermectin. No country benefits (outside of actually saving the lives of their citizenry) off of ivermectin. In fact the prominent doctors pushing are risking their entire livelihoods and licenses to give their patients this. And big pharma is coming after them hard.

Here propaganda guy…

How anti-vaxxers seized on a horse dewormer drug as a COVID treatment

 

[sakinago]

Here propaganda guy…

How anti-vaxxers seized on a horse dewormer drug as a COVID treatment

Jesus Christ, an even bigger swing and a miss. Again, why is salone comparing the actual human drug ivermectin that’s saved and improved hundreds of millions of lives, and won the Nobel prize in 2015 to the horse version of ivermectin?!?!?!?!? Did we not already discuss this???? How many more times do I have to point out the bullshit your posting until you realize you’re on the wrong side?!?!?!?!?!? How many more lies do they need to tell you? How is strawmaning a vet medication in place of the actual Nobel prize winning human drug not totally misconstruing the facts?? It doesn’t get more absurd than that. Zero doctors have advocated the horse version. They advocate the human, Nobel prize, malaria fighting, river blindness curing, millions of lives saved version.

The study that they cite, in which is the other half of their argument, that “got pulled” has already been discussed by me, at length, in this thread. Go back and take a look. Salon does nothing to ADDRESS THE 60 OTHER PEER REVIEWED, SCIENTIFICALLY PUBLISHED STUDIES IVE POSTED TO YOU. They also don’t seem very concerned that Harvard just published a study pointing out that the very expensive, big pharma money bag bringing, hospitals makin-it-rain, remdisivir doesn’t work and the 1 single study they used to justify its use was bullshit. That’s the side your on. The one that keeps lying, keeps getting caught lying, and keeps raking in the dough.

Hey, do you remember when I made this thread a couple of weeks ago. You know, the one we’re conversing on right now. And I was saying that the vaccines aren’t prophylactics, and don’t stop disease or spread, and are driving mutation away from them? Yeah it turns out NOW the manufacturers, fauci, CDC, all of them agree with me so...whoops on your part. I obviously disagree with the people that keep lying over and over on what direction we should go.

 

[sartre play]

Having enough problems figuring out what's going on right here. Israel will have to figure out there virus problem with out my help.

 

[otto105]

Jesus Christ, an even bigger swing and a miss. Again, why is salone comparing the actual human drug ivermectin that’s saved and improved hundreds of millions of lives, and won the Nobel prize in 2015 to the horse version of ivermectin?!?!?!?!? Did we not already discuss this???? How many more times do I have to point out the bullshit your posting until you realize you’re on the wrong side?!?!?!?!?!? How many more lies do they need to tell you? How is strawmaning a vet medication in place of the actual Nobel prize winning human drug not totally misconstruing the facts?? It doesn’t get more absurd than that. Zero doctors have advocated the horse version. They advocate the human, Nobel prize, malaria fighting, river blindness curing, millions of lives saved version.

The study that they cite, in which is the other half of their argument, that “got pulled” has already been discussed by me, at length, in this thread. Go back and take a look. Salon does nothing to ADDRESS THE 60 OTHER PEER REVIEWED, SCIENTIFICALLY PUBLISHED STUDIES IVE POSTED TO YOU. They also don’t seem very concerned that Harvard just published a study pointing out that the very expensive, big pharma money bag bringing, hospitals makin-it-rain, remdisivir doesn’t work and the 1 single study they used to justify its use was bullshit. That’s the side your on. The one that keeps lying, keeps getting caught lying, and keeps raking in the dough.

Hey, do you remember when I made this thread a couple of weeks ago. You know, the one we’re conversing on right now. And I was saying that the vaccines aren’t prophylactics, and don’t stop disease or spread, and are driving mutation away from them? Yeah it turns out NOW the manufacturers, fauci, CDC, all of them agree with me so...whoops on your part. I obviously disagree with the people that keep lying over and over on what direction we should go.

List one of those “studies”.