How Are Catholics Christians?

[Genevieve]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

First, I am not Catholic.
But I do know that Catholics believe that Jesus is God's son and he was sacrificed on the cross to save us from our sins. That is enough to call the Catholic religion a "Christian" religion.

From what I understand, Catholics don't pray TO Mary, they pray through her. They ask Mary to pray for them. Protestants pray to Jesus for that purpose............to ask Jesus to go to God on their behalf.

 

[Care4all]

back to the Op. Because Catholics do not believe fully in Jesus' finished work on Calvary, they are not true Believer's. They add to His finished/perfect sacrifice by adding man made false traditions and other legalism to the Gospel. And do not forget the RCC Catechism. Tradition and the Bible cannot be at the same level. The Bible has to be alone and first.

The bible was not writen or pulled together for several hundred years after Christs death, Christians at the time used TRADITION during that period, with one or two etc scriptures that eventually were pulled together with some of the Christian sects...

Are you stating that all of these Christian groups were not Christians because they used tradition instead of a Book that was not even pulled together yet?

 

[Pennywise]

Catholics are Christians because they believe that Christ is our Redeemer. They are some of the most devout people I know, and while you are concerned with dogma, they are concerned with living their lives with Christ in the lead. While you sit here bitching about their doctrine, they are running the food bank this week.
The Catholics I was raised with are wonderful adults. And I love them like family.

There isn't a church out there that has not skewed doctrine. Catholic doctrine is one of the worst. Catholics are some of the best. Heaven is overflowing with them.

If God himself wasn't happy with man being under commands instead of grace, why do we cling to them so? From the 1st, to the 631st. law, (put yourself under one and you are obligated to keep them all) God would rather we hold fast to Him, not rules laid out for a specific group of unruly Jews.

The most giving and humble people I have ever known were Catholics. This Catholic hate that pervades much of society (especially evangelicals) is strange and reeks of jealousy.

 

[konradv]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

First, I am not Catholic.
But I do know that Catholics believe that Jesus is God's son and he was sacrificed on the cross to save us from our sins. That is enough to call the Catholic religion a "Christian" religion.

From what I understand, Catholics don't pray TO Mary, they pray through her. They ask Mary to pray for them. Protestants pray to Jesus for that purpose............to ask Jesus to go to God on their behalf.

Kind of weird, if Jesus is supposed to be God.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If Protestants pray to Jesus, quit it, and pray to your Father. Through Christ, not to Christ. Our thanks, love and appreciation, blessings and good works are for our brother and redeemer, Christ. Our petitions go to our Father, with Christ sitting next to Him interceding on our behalf.
In the Temple there were various sections. God's throne, and His mercy seat were in the Holy of Holies section. A sheet of linen sewn together 1 foot thick was placed between that room and the others, which kept humans, covered in sin, from coming in contact with God. (BTW, The Jewish Commandments were placed under the mercy seat. In fact the seat of mercy had to be removed to get to the Law.)

When Christ died on that cross, the Temple Priests saw that curtain tear right down the middle, because Christ's blood sprinkled on that alter removed the original sin and those we added, once and for all. And note He was sin free when He did it. Our sins were dealt with and discarded before Christ entered the Holy of Holies upon His death.
We can go boldly to God's Throne now because just as Christ was covered in our sin on the cross, when you accept Christ as your Savior, you are covered in the honor and glory that looks like Christ. (The very covering Adam and Eve wore, and Eve lost that exposed her nakedness, and the covering on Moses after being in close proximity to God on the mountain.) When you accept Christ you have an aura that God sees. A sin free cloak of perfection. It has a name. The shekinah glory of God. Offered by Jesus the Messiah.

Christ is responsible for giving us direct contact with our Father again. Pray to the Father just like Christ did and when you do, ask Him to bless Jesus for you, and thank Him for loving us enough to place all of our judgment on His shoulders.

Catholics use to walk into church and sit for hours and listen to someone telling them something in a foreign language. They weren't allowed Bibles of their own and got nothing from the Latin sermons. So one Pope had statues made to convey the message the parishioners we're missing. It went somewhat off track.
But to Catholics it was a way to show love and devotion to anything that was Christ connected, and will be credited to them as such. I bet Mary asks her Father to bless everyone of those who hold her in such high esteem.

Be careful not to condemn anyone that Christ died to save. We don't want to be counter productive to the work on the cross.

 

[konradv]

If Protestants pray to Jesus, quit it, and pray to your Father. Through Christ, not to Christ.

That's certainly different than Catholic theology. The Father and Jesus are co-equal. The above indicates that Jesus is a lesser being. That was declared heresy by the Council of Nicaea in 325.

 

[The Irish Ram]

God and Jesus are one and are equal, and are working in two different capacities. Christ is God with us, Emanuel. Christ was here as a human and will always keep His glorified, terrestrial part. As far as I know Catholics still hold to The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost trinity of God Almighty. No church gets it completely right, so it's best to follow Christ's teachings.
Jesus shares some tremendous insight regarding how to pray and how not pray to God:

Matthew 6:5-13. “And now about prayer. When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I assure you, that is all the reward they will ever get. But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father secretly. Then your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you. “When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think prayers are answered only by repeating words over and over again. Don't be like them, because your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored. May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done here on earth, just as it is in heaven. Give us our food for today, and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us. And don't let us yield to temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Christ never prayed to anyone other than His Father, told us to pray to our Father, and the disciples taught to pray to the Father, which is what they learned from Jesus. In fact, Jesus called His Father, "Our Father" just as though He was one of us.

 

[konradv]

God and Jesus are one and are equal, and are working in two different capacities. Christ is God with us, Emanuel. Christ was here as a human and will always keep His glorified, terrestrial part. As far as I know Catholics still hold to The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost trinity of God Almighty. No church gets it completely right, so it's best to follow Christ's teachings.
Jesus shares some tremendous insight regarding how to pray and how not pray to God:

Matthew 6:5-13. “And now about prayer. When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I assure you, that is all the reward they will ever get. But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father secretly. Then your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you. “When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think prayers are answered only by repeating words over and over again. Don't be like them, because your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored. May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done here on earth, just as it is in heaven. Give us our food for today, and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us. And don't let us yield to temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Christ never prayed to anyone other than His Father, told us to pray to our Father, and the disciples taught to pray to the Father, which is what they learned from Jesus. In fact, Jesus called His Father, "Our Father" just as though He was one of us.

Jesus is presumed to be truly human and truly God according to Nicene Christianity. In the quote He is speaking as a human to other humans. When we pray to him today He is God, whom we pray TO rather than through or he would be some lesser being and not God.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jesus described Himself as an equal. "If you have seen me you have seen God."
He was pretty clear about being, SON of God, and God:
The Way, the Truth, and the Life
…8Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." 9Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '? 10"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.…

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 8:19
Then they asked him, "Where is your father?" "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also."
John 12:45
The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.
Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Jesus said to pray to the Father in His name. Certainly, you can talk to Jesus. After His death, the disciples asked Him to name a replacement for Judas. Stephen asked Jesus, when He appeared to Stephen, to forgive those that were stoning Stephen to death. Paul and Christ conversed on the road to Damascus.

But when asked how we should pray, Jesus said to pray to our Father. I figure you can't go wrong with the Word.

Once Christ was with the Father, He said He would do anything we asked Him to do if we prayed in His name. It brings His honor and glory to the fore front of our Father. We can pray to Christ if it is for Christ's sake.
Sadly, our prayers tend to focus on our own issues and aren't geared toward honoring someone else.

John 14:13
(13) And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.

So just start a conversation, even if you just drop in to say, "Thanks." and the Holy Spirit will take care of the rest. He's there too, to the right of Jesus. All waiting to react in your best interest....

 

[JoeB131]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

When I was growing up Catholic, I recall the second commandment says "No Graven Images", but Catholic Churches are full of Graven images- Mary, Joseph (only my Patron Saint would have bought THAT story), Jesus on the Cross. Jesus not on the Cross showing you his coronary bypass operation... and so on.

These are really the LEAST of my problems with the Catholic Church, though.

 

[Pogo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

When I was growing up Catholic, I recall the second commandment says "No Graven Images", but Catholic Churches are full of Graven images- Mary, Joseph (only my Patron Saint would have bought THAT story), Jesus on the Cross. Jesus not on the Cross showing you his coronary bypass operation... and so on.

These are really the LEAST of my problems with the Catholic Church, though.

Interesting --- where I came up there was no such "graven image" clause. I never even heard of it inside Catholicism. One of those strange things you hear later that don't add up with one's background.

Our Second Commandment was "Don't take the goddam Lord's name in vain" (paraphrased) -- never heard squat about "graven". Didn't even know what it meant the first time I heard the word.

​

 

[Penelope]

Most Catholics are not Christians. Most believe in the church to save them, not Jesus alone.

Most do not. I will tell you I'd rather sit in a Mass and receive communion with a 10 min. homily, than listen to someone go on an on and on for a hour or better about their views on a few verses In the Bible.

A mature RC does not take the bible literally and they never taught it literally, as come on , its all tradition, but no the Prots need to take every verses like it fell from heaven. The rosary is a meditation on the life of Christ, theres a bit more to it than just the Our Father and Hail Mary. If I see a Baptist come and you can spot them, I love to be told how I'm not saved.

As far as I'm concerned I do not believe Jesus the man worshipped as a Jew and therefore was a Jew in name only. Whoever Jesus was he believe in peace and respect (love) thy neighbor, do no harm.

But the RCC has now turned more Prot. and started their with their own bible study in the 90's.

 

[turzovka]

You seem to be conflating "praying to" and "worshiping". Not the same thing. A prayer is simply a communication. A pretend one, but that's all it is. Who ever said prayers can go only to God?

None of that has anything to do with being Christian. Again, that simply means you follow and believe in Christ. Praying to his mother has zero effect on that. They're simply not related. Not sure where this confusion's coming from.

The rosary? Why does it need to be in the bible? Is the bible supposed to preanticipate everything? Folk masses aren't in there either; it was a manifestation of its time and culture. Same with the rosary. The rosary is simply an instrument -- it's not part of doctrine.

Deuteronomy 13:1 says not to add to or take away from the commandments of Torah [God et al.] If reciting the Rosary as pennace is required by a priest, but isn't from the Bible, it's very much adding to Torah.

Prayers are reserved for God if you're any sort of God-worshipper (proper "God.") No one else is suitable for worship and prayers but God, that's the first commandment all Christians would be bound to. If you're praying to someone else, especially a mortal, you're absolutely breaking the most important commandment, even according to Jesus. Can try semantic arguements but the world is on my side on this one.

No Jew, Muslim, or Protestant prays to any but God, and the reason is the 1st Commandment.

When you are ready to accept all of Scripture --- and in the context of all that the Word has to say --- and not just use your favorite excerpts to try and trick the faithful, then and only then can we use Scripture to make your point or my point.

Otherwise, do not try to tell us Catholics that praying to the Virgin Mary is "un-Christian" or whatever term you choose. You simply are discredited.

The God of heaven allowed His Mother to visit the earth on many occasions and instruct the faithful. I am very sorry for you that your pride or your blindness cannot recognize that.