House GOPers War On Birth Control

[Uncensored2008]

Not every American believes in God. Not every American believes that each and every zygote is a "person".

Why does that sound so familiar?

Not every German believes in God. Not every German believes that each and every Jew is a "person".


The left, the left never changes.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot or Planned Parenthood; the basic contempt for human life remains.

 

[Madeline]

Jarhead wrote:

Yes, I am well aware of this.
However, I am concerned that the more legislation we have as it pertains to helathcare and birth control, the more likely this will change.
And I am sure both you and I can agree that legislation of late has been so complex...so long...and so "all over the place", even our legislators admit to not reading some or most of many bills.
So I am simply expressing my sentiments.

O, without a doubt the health care bill was far too complex, Jarhead. Your concerns are not unfounded.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Kaz, paying taxes = "raising money for birth control". What's your gripe about public funds for public health?

When you plan a party, do you generally grab a gun and go down town to "fund" it?

 

[asterism]

It's pretty simple once you clear away all the absurd conversational garbage: until someone has a direct line to God, or can claim to be Him, to err on the side of caution is to assume that life begins upon conception. Some medical specialists have tried to play God by arrogantly categorically denoting - supposedly - when human life is manifest in a pregnancy, but then we don't know who they voted for last November, either - they aren't all saintly super-humans with a divine detachment to the garbage heap of humanity called liberalism.

Are you God? No? Then you have an obligation to err on the side of caution, or don't posture superior on ethics and morality. Assuming abortion is murder is the only intellectually honest extrapolation.

At the core, the debate isn't complicated.

WTF are you to dictate to me or to any woman what she should do with her body?

Bad premise. Just like all women are forbidden from shooting heroin or smoking crack, you also can't have your spleen removed simply because it's your "choice."

 

[Anachronism]

You are wrong, and you will always be wrong. There is no mandate aka express language in the constitution for many things that did not exist in 1776, like the airline industry, yet we soldier on and cope, following the constitution under the guidance of the SCOTUS.

And so far as I am concerned the VAST MAJORITY, no the near totality of them SHOULD NOT EXIST. Regardless of whatever eronious decision has been made by the Supreme Court.

Except that private charities never have, and never will, Anachronism.

At least in part because during the timeframe that private charities were the norm, rather than government interventionism, abortion was not a procedure that society felt was appropriate, regardless of the circumstances related to the pregnancy.

Before there was a New Deal, are you under the delusion some private charity existed to provide abortion care to poor women? It did not. This will never attract private donations in adequate amounts.

I am under no such delusion. I am under the full knowledge that in that day and age these women were expected to bear those children for the most part. It may not sound Fair, but then again LIFE is not Fair. Never has been and never will be.

I am a firm believer in the idea of FATE, Madeline. That is, the idea that a very large percentage of what happens to us is beyond our control and happens to us for reasons that we are not intended to understand or necessarily like. We simply deal with them and move on with our lives. It is how we deal with these things that has a great deal of bearing on what happens to our soul after death.

Too bad. Read some SCOTUS decisions, Anachronism...the constitution was not engraved in cement.

I disagree. I believe that the US Constitution WAS engraved in cement, at least on a metaphorical level. I believe that the ONLY WAY to modify its intent is through the Amendment Process; and I would suggest that in my mind at least half of the last 16 Amendments to the document are incompatible with the original intent of the Founders and/or the betterment of the United States as a whole.

 

[Stephanie]

WTF are you to dictate to me or to any woman what she should do with her body?

Two points:

I'm not telling you what you can or can not do, but rather what you should do. there's a difference. Angry indignation from leftists is an old song. It's dull and tiresome. you should stop trying to sing it because it's a bad song. Are you so highly placed that you can say for certain when life begins? Are you God?

second, it isn't only your body, or are you so mindlessly selfish and inconsiderate that you forgot that no matter how or why, you're carrying another person around inside you. Calling that a part of your body to do with what you like is not too dissimilar from shooting someone in your car and saying that it wasn't murder because the person belonged to you, since that person was in the car that belonged to you. You'll rant at the analogy, but tough shit. Murder your own kid if you feel the need, but don't go around espousing it to others.

Not every American believes in God. Not every American believes that each and every zygote is a "person". You are entitled to your POV and there are ways to ensure you never inceminate a woman who does not want to be pregnant -- in fact, we began this thread discussing the insanity of limiting access to birth control, if I remember correctly.

Holy shit Maddie, I can't believe you just called a child, a Zygote. Is that what it take to be able to convince oneself they are NOT KILLING THEIR OWN CHILD?
you are one sick and twisted person.
now I go and puke.

 

[Jarhead]

Jarhead wrote:

Yes, I am well aware of this.
However, I am concerned that the more legislation we have as it pertains to helathcare and birth control, the more likely this will change.
And I am sure both you and I can agree that legislation of late has been so complex...so long...and so "all over the place", even our legislators admit to not reading some or most of many bills.
So I am simply expressing my sentiments.

O, without a doubt the health care bill was far too complex, Jarhead. Your concerns are not unfounded.

lol...the healthcare bill (signed into law) included major changes in the student loan industry yet completely eliminated the "doctor fix" that was put into other legislation.

I mean.....really?

 

[Jarhead]

Two points:

I'm not telling you what you can or can not do, but rather what you should do. there's a difference. Angry indignation from leftists is an old song. It's dull and tiresome. you should stop trying to sing it because it's a bad song. Are you so highly placed that you can say for certain when life begins? Are you God?

second, it isn't only your body, or are you so mindlessly selfish and inconsiderate that you forgot that no matter how or why, you're carrying another person around inside you. Calling that a part of your body to do with what you like is not too dissimilar from shooting someone in your car and saying that it wasn't murder because the person belonged to you, since that person was in the car that belonged to you. You'll rant at the analogy, but tough shit. Murder your own kid if you feel the need, but don't go around espousing it to others.

Not every American believes in God. Not every American believes that each and every zygote is a "person". You are entitled to your POV and there are ways to ensure you never inceminate a woman who does not want to be pregnant -- in fact, we began this thread discussing the insanity of limiting access to birth control, if I remember correctly.

Holy shit Maddie, I can't believe you just called a child, a Zygote. Is that what it take to be able to convince oneself they are NOT KILLING THEIR OWN CHILD?
you are one sick and twisted person.
now I go and puke.

a very generous number of people believe this Stephanie. I disagree with them.....but we must respect the sentiments of others if we expect them to respect our own.

 

[GStarz]

I skipped from page 1 to page 15 and have only this to say. The state should be falling over themselves to fund anything that helps people who can't afford to raise children, not have them.

I agree with your sentiment, but why don't liberals ever say "I" instead of "the state?" Why don't you raise money for it? I'll contribute.

Kaz, paying taxes = "raising money for birth control". What's your gripe about public funds for public health?

This is an incredibly stupid response, unworthy of inclusion in any substantial discussion.

It isn't public health, it's your health. Emergency rooms are public health. Deciding that a beautiful, newborn child who may grow up to be the person who cures cancer or ends international aggression should be murdered before experiencing life outside the womb - yes, they're technically experiencing life inside the womb - after you screwed around and got that kid, for whatever reason - yeah, even rape, because that kid isn't responsible for how his or her life began - is not the same has falling off a ladder and getting a severe spinal cord injury, or getting in a car crash and needing immediate treatment, or even spraining an ankle playing sports in school.

IMO Your attitude is callous and cold-blooded beyond any reasonable discourse. As far as the existence of God being the standard by which we judge right or wrong when it comes to abortion, consider this: if there is no God, then that child became a manifest living human being by chances so slim that anyone who could buy a lottery ticket should never complain if they never win that game, because they already beat odds so astronomical that expecting to get even remotely that lucky again is greedy and unrealistic. To kill that child after a statistical miracle - from that child's point of view - is so selfish and greedy and cold-blooded and uncaring that anyone who espouses it - especially the manifestly hypocritical liberal in this context - should never advocate anything under the guise of caring, because they have mitigated that self-aggrandizing posture with such a cold-blooded ideological position regarding murdering an unborn child.

Abortion as a form of public health concern is the ultimate in revolting social/political posturing. Unless you regard that child as dangerous as an outbreak of cholera. That child isn't. Murderous abortion advocates just don;t give a damn about anything but themselves, and don't argue that point, because by taking the position they do, they have made that fact manifest.

"Zygote". Who made up that term? By what authority did they do so in which they were able to distinguish the term from "human being". Who wrote the dictionary that defines the terms as being separate? The point is those people were not God, the authority placed upon them by other human beings to behave as though they are, notwithstanding.

You want to murder your own unborn as long as the law allows it? Fine. Kill all the future Einsteins you hate so you can screw around at your uncomplicated leisure. But the idea that those of us who are fair, and caring, and loving, and give people who need a break the break they deserve - even the unborn - just because we believe that our fellow human beings are worth more than the water and chemicals that make up their being don't want to pay for the convenience your crave to rid yourself of the consequences of your lazy, hedonistic, morally and ethically revolting lifestyle. We all like sex. But some things are more important to anyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty.

Next you'll be telling us that we should pay for the whores of financially challenged Johns because without sex they will be frustrated and hence that, too, should be legislated into a public health concern.

Bullshit. You want to murder your kid? Pay for it yourself.

Have a really nice day. I have no doubt whatsoever that you'll enjoy it. You seem really good at enjoying yourself.

 

[Madeline]

I agree with your sentiment, but why don't liberals ever say "I" instead of "the state?" Why don't you raise money for it? I'll contribute.

Kaz, paying taxes = "raising money for birth control". What's your gripe about public funds for public health?

This is an incredibly stupid response, unworthy of inclusion in any substantial discussion.

It isn't public health, it's your health. Emergency rooms are public health. Deciding that a beautiful, newborn child who may grow up to be the person who cures cancer or ends international aggression should be murdered before experiencing life outside the womb - yes, they're technically experiencing life inside the womb - after you screwed around and got that kid, for whatever reason - yeah, even rape, because that kid isn't responsible for how his or her life began - is not the same has falling off a ladder and getting a severe spinal cord injury, or getting in a car crash and needing immediate treatment, or even spraining an ankle playing sports in school.

IMO Your attitude is callous and cold-blooded beyond any reasonable discourse. As far as the existence of God being the standard by which we judge right or wrong when it comes to abortion, consider this: if there is no God, then that child became a manifest living human being by chances so slim that anyone who could buy a lottery ticket should never complain if they never win that game, because they already beat odds so astronomical that expecting to get even remotely that lucky again is greedy and unrealistic. To kill that child after a statistical miracle - from that child's point of view - is so selfish and greedy and cold-blooded and uncaring that anyone who espouses it - especially the manifestly hypocritical liberal in this context - should never advocate anything under the guise of caring, because they have mitigated that self-aggrandizing posture with such a cold-blooded ideological position regarding murdering an unborn child.

Abortion as a form of public health concern is the ultimate in revolting social/political posturing. Unless you regard that child as dangerous as an outbreak of cholera. That child isn't. Murderous abortion advocates just don;t give a damn about anything but themselves, and don't argue that point, because by taking the position they do, they have made that fact manifest.

"Zygote". Who made up that term? By what authority did they do so in which they were able to distinguish the term from "human being". Who wrote the dictionary that defines the terms as being separate? The point is those people were not God, the authority placed upon them by other human beings to behave as though they are, notwithstanding.

You want to murder your own unborn as long as the law allows it? Fine. Kill all the future Einsteins you hate so you can screw around at your uncomplicated leisure. But the idea that those of us who are fair, and caring, and loving, and give people who need a break the break they deserve - even the unborn - just because we believe that our fellow human beings are worth more than the water and chemicals that make up their being don't want to pay for the convenience your crave to rid yourself of the consequences of your lazy, hedonistic, morally and ethically revolting lifestyle. We all like sex. But some things are more important to anyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty.

Next you'll be telling us that we should pay for the whores of financially challenged Johns because without sex they will be frustrated and hence that, too, should be legislated into a public health concern.

Bullshit. You want to murder your kid? Pay for it yourself.

Have a really nice day. I have no doubt whatsoever that you'll enjoy it. You seem really good at enjoying yourself.

This may just be the most mysoginistic post I have ever read on USMB. Amazing that anyone could hate women this much....you may want to have that seen to, GStarz.

 

[Madeline]

Not every American believes in God. Not every American believes that each and every zygote is a "person". You are entitled to your POV and there are ways to ensure you never inceminate a woman who does not want to be pregnant -- in fact, we began this thread discussing the insanity of limiting access to birth control, if I remember correctly.

Holy shit Maddie, I can't believe you just called a child, a Zygote. Is that what it take to be able to convince oneself they are NOT KILLING THEIR OWN CHILD?
you are one sick and twisted person.
now I go and puke.

a very generous number of people believe this Stephanie. I disagree with them.....but we must respect the sentiments of others if we expect them to respect our own.

I wonder what other biology terms make Stephanie ill? Reality is just not her bag, I guess.

 

[Madeline]

Jarhead wrote:

Yes, I am well aware of this.
However, I am concerned that the more legislation we have as it pertains to helathcare and birth control, the more likely this will change.
And I am sure both you and I can agree that legislation of late has been so complex...so long...and so "all over the place", even our legislators admit to not reading some or most of many bills.
So I am simply expressing my sentiments.

O, without a doubt the health care bill was far too complex, Jarhead. Your concerns are not unfounded.

lol...the healthcare bill (signed into law) included major changes in the student loan industry yet completely eliminated the "doctor fix" that was put into other legislation.

I mean.....really?

I know...bizarre. That law should be renamed "Health Care and Everything Else But The Kitchen Sink". This sort of law making is no way to run a railroad.

 

[GStarz]

Kaz, paying taxes = "raising money for birth control". What's your gripe about public funds for public health?

This is an incredibly stupid response, unworthy of inclusion in any substantial discussion.

It isn't public health, it's your health. Emergency rooms are public health. Deciding that a beautiful, newborn child who may grow up to be the person who cures cancer or ends international aggression should be murdered before experiencing life outside the womb - yes, they're technically experiencing life inside the womb - after you screwed around and got that kid, for whatever reason - yeah, even rape, because that kid isn't responsible for how his or her life began - is not the same has falling off a ladder and getting a severe spinal cord injury, or getting in a car crash and needing immediate treatment, or even spraining an ankle playing sports in school.

IMO Your attitude is callous and cold-blooded beyond any reasonable discourse. As far as the existence of God being the standard by which we judge right or wrong when it comes to abortion, consider this: if there is no God, then that child became a manifest living human being by chances so slim that anyone who could buy a lottery ticket should never complain if they never win that game, because they already beat odds so astronomical that expecting to get even remotely that lucky again is greedy and unrealistic. To kill that child after a statistical miracle - from that child's point of view - is so selfish and greedy and cold-blooded and uncaring that anyone who espouses it - especially the manifestly hypocritical liberal in this context - should never advocate anything under the guise of caring, because they have mitigated that self-aggrandizing posture with such a cold-blooded ideological position regarding murdering an unborn child.

Abortion as a form of public health concern is the ultimate in revolting social/political posturing. Unless you regard that child as dangerous as an outbreak of cholera. That child isn't. Murderous abortion advocates just don;t give a damn about anything but themselves, and don't argue that point, because by taking the position they do, they have made that fact manifest.

"Zygote". Who made up that term? By what authority did they do so in which they were able to distinguish the term from "human being". Who wrote the dictionary that defines the terms as being separate? The point is those people were not God, the authority placed upon them by other human beings to behave as though they are, notwithstanding.

You want to murder your own unborn as long as the law allows it? Fine. Kill all the future Einsteins you hate so you can screw around at your uncomplicated leisure. But the idea that those of us who are fair, and caring, and loving, and give people who need a break the break they deserve - even the unborn - just because we believe that our fellow human beings are worth more than the water and chemicals that make up their being don't want to pay for the convenience your crave to rid yourself of the consequences of your lazy, hedonistic, morally and ethically revolting lifestyle. We all like sex. But some things are more important to anyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty.

Next you'll be telling us that we should pay for the whores of financially challenged Johns because without sex they will be frustrated and hence that, too, should be legislated into a public health concern.

Bullshit. You want to murder your kid? Pay for it yourself.

Have a really nice day. I have no doubt whatsoever that you'll enjoy it. You seem really good at enjoying yourself.

This may just be the most mysoginistic post I have ever read on USMB. Amazing that anyone could hate women this much....you may want to have that seen to, GStarz.

Overtly simple, Superior posturing, intellectual dishonest mis-characterization does not a decent argument rebuttal make. You lose. Have a really great day. I know you will, because you've managed to make yourself the center of attention, which appears, by virtue of your baiting, to be the only thing you care about. The God of whom you do not believe has a place all ready for you. Bring some very light clothing.

 

[kaz]

I skipped from page 1 to page 15 and have only this to say. The state should be falling over themselves to fund anything that helps people who can't afford to raise children, not have them.

I agree with your sentiment, but why don't liberals ever say "I" instead of "the state?" Why don't you raise money for it? I'll contribute.

Kaz, paying taxes = "raising money for birth control". What's your gripe about public funds for public health?

I see, first abortion was "birth control" and now it's "public health." I'm pro-choice, which means I support the right of a woman to control her own body and make her own choices with her body, including terminating a pregnancy. The term for that isn't birth control and it isn't public health, it's abortion. I don't need to veil my support for women owning their own body in euphemisms like you do to hide the real issue. Honest debate starts with truth. You haven't reached that level yet.

As to your question, just like a woman should be able to make her own choices with her body, I should be able to make my own choices with my wallet where choice is involved. It's sad that you have to even ask that question. Government should provide you with retirement, healthcare, education, welfare, color TV, a car and whatever else you want and we can't be bothered to ask anyone for the money so let's send people with guns to take it. That country you want to live in. But if they try to read your e-mail without a warrant, OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's the USSR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kaz]

This may just be the most mysoginistic post I have ever read on USMB. Amazing that anyone could hate women this much....you may want to have that seen to, GStarz.

Wow, not wanting to give you welfare in the form of paying for your "birth control" is now hatred of women? You must be fun at parties. So if I don't want to pay for your gas, does that mean I hate blacks? If I don't want to pay your rent, I hate the elderly? The only thing you're willing to work hard at is being a welfare whore.

I have an idea, why don't you pay your own bills and if you want to have sex pay for your own protection and if you don't pay for your own kid? Or is that too grown up for you? Who did that last question mean I hate? People from Wisconsin?

 

[Madeline]

This may just be the most mysoginistic post I have ever read on USMB. Amazing that anyone could hate women this much....you may want to have that seen to, GStarz.

Wow, not wanting to give you welfare in the form of paying for your "birth control" is now hatred of women? You must be fun at parties. So if I don't want to pay for your gas, does that mean I hate blacks? If I don't want to pay your rent, I hate the elderly? The only thing you're willing to work hard at is being a welfare whore.

I have an idea, why don't you pay your own bills and if you want to have sex pay for your own protection and if you don't pay for your own kid? Or is that too grown up for you? Who did that last question mean I hate? People from Wisconsin?

Kaz, the thread concerns insurance coverage of contraceptive care, not "welfare".

 

[Jarhead]

Holy shit Maddie, I can't believe you just called a child, a Zygote. Is that what it take to be able to convince oneself they are NOT KILLING THEIR OWN CHILD?
you are one sick and twisted person.
now I go and puke.

a very generous number of people believe this Stephanie. I disagree with them.....but we must respect the sentiments of others if we expect them to respect our own.

I wonder what other biology terms make Stephanie ill? Reality is just not her bag, I guess.

Well, in all fairness to Stephanie, some people feel very strongly about life beginning at conception. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is about a belief system.

I have learned to turn the tables so I can understand how others think.

What if you believed, perhaps through a faith you are devoted to, that once an egg is feritlized, the result is a child...and you truly saw it as a child as it developed in the womb....

Would it not be a turn off to you if someone referred to what you saw as a child as a "zygote"?

Especially if they were on the side of "it is not deemed as life yet"

Like I said to Stephanie....I am saying to you....learn to understand why the other side feels as they do....the oither side are not idiots...they are intelligent human beings as well...

I will say this...with this mindset, I rarely have a hatred for anyones views...albeit I get quuite angry and frustrated when a poster on here spins the truth to try to win...or spins what I say to demean me....or ignores facts and continues to spew rhetoric.

 

[kaz]

This may just be the most mysoginistic post I have ever read on USMB. Amazing that anyone could hate women this much....you may want to have that seen to, GStarz.

Wow, not wanting to give you welfare in the form of paying for your "birth control" is now hatred of women? You must be fun at parties. So if I don't want to pay for your gas, does that mean I hate blacks? If I don't want to pay your rent, I hate the elderly? The only thing you're willing to work hard at is being a welfare whore.

I have an idea, why don't you pay your own bills and if you want to have sex pay for your own protection and if you don't pay for your own kid? Or is that too grown up for you? Who did that last question mean I hate? People from Wisconsin?

Kaz, the thread concerns insurance coverage of contraceptive care, not "welfare".

A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet...

Or foul. When you want government to take money from other people and give it to you to buy healthcare, fund your retirement or have sex, it's welfare...

 

[Stephanie]

Not every American believes in God. Not every American believes that each and every zygote is a "person". You are entitled to your POV and there are ways to ensure you never inceminate a woman who does not want to be pregnant -- in fact, we began this thread discussing the insanity of limiting access to birth control, if I remember correctly.

Holy shit Maddie, I can't believe you just called a child, a Zygote. Is that what it take to be able to convince oneself they are NOT KILLING THEIR OWN CHILD?
you are one sick and twisted person.
now I go and puke.

a very generous number of people believe this Stephanie. I disagree with them.....but we must respect the sentiments of others if we expect them to respect our own.

sure they do, but I won't respect anyone who so openly says this as if it is TRUTH, just can't do it.
Abortion is one issue that I CAN'T STOMACH. there are reasons for it.

 

[kaz]

Well, in all fairness to Stephanie, some people feel very strongly about life beginning at conception. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is about a belief system

What's funny is how regarding fiscal issues, the left wants government to do their charity for them and when the right objects, the left says the right are greedy and don't believe in helping people. The left are unable to question their basic premise that maybe charity's not reasonably a government function, it's a personal one.

Now if you switch sides, maybe the right needs to learn that morality is not a government function, it's a personal one and get out there and provide women alternatives and ask them to use them rather then running to government to use it's guns to force them.

The idea that government can tell a woman that she must carry a baby to term in her own body or government is going to make her is just as intellectually and personally lazy as when the right tells the left to get a job and fund their own charities.