Honduras did not have a Coup.

[DiveCon]

you are partly right on the first paert, it IS a Honduran issue, and a Honduran issue ONLY

as to what this administration has said, they said he should be returned to power
that is what the presidential spokesperson said
and he speaks for Obama

Yes. But nothing has been insisted. No demands, no direct talks with Honduras.

And it is not solely a Honduran issue. They fixed that when they flew Zelaya, at gun point, into Costa Rica. Now, had they done the legal thing, followed the order, Zelaya would be under arrest in Honduras right now. And it would be a Honduran issue.

you are being diishonest again

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House says it sees no acceptable solution to the ouster of the president of Honduras other than returning him to power.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Tuesday that State Department officials have been in touch with ousted President Manuel , and the White House is continuing to work on the situation.
Gibbs says that if Zelaya does come to Washington, he'll most likely meet with officials at the State Department.
The White House spokesman says there are no plans to recall the U.S. ambassador to Honduras, because having a representative there is important.

i posted the link to this story WAY back
the bolded shows you are WRONG

quoted again for the lying piece of shit to own up and be honest

 

[Annie]

Good article Annie. Seems to get to the heart of the problem. I don't think Zelaya should be returned to power and if he is, he should subsequently be arrested and removed, the right way this time. There is an appearance of guilt and he should have the opportunity to defend himself from the charges.

As for what world leaders have said, it is nearly unanamous. While the article cites only three leaders, Obama, Chavez and Castro, nearly everyone has condemed the military removal of Zelaya, that's the OAS and the UN. No sane leader is going to support the use of military force to remove a sitting president. It's pretty simple math.

Well after I picked myself off the floor, I read the rest of your post. So, the military actually acted for the most part, within the orders of the courts/Congress. They overstepped at getting him out of country, though that seems they were acting more in his favor than not. No? Meaning, keeping him out of jail, though denying the trial.

I'm not sure what the motivation for taking him out of the country was. I read that it was a "last minute" decision but no word on who made that decision. The detainment order was only for detaining him in his home, as I undersatnd. A kind of house arrest, I guess. But the decision to take him out of the country could have been made for any number of reasons. Maybe they just figured it was a short cut to avoid a trial and what that would entail. Who knows. At any rate, Zelaya didn't want to go and seemed ready to defend his actions, although he must be one self assured SOB to think there was any defense when the congress, courts and military are lined up against you.

All in all, Zelaya was the cause of the whole thing. Regardless, world leaders aren't going to support the move to use the military to depose him and send him into exile. It was a really bad move in an otherwise well orchestrated and legal plan to remove him from office. Too bad they screwed it up.

The bulk of the argument here has been about what Obama has done, which is next to nothing. He made a couple statements about it, emphasized the legal aspects of the removal and that democracy has to be held above the rest of this mess. Zelaya is the elected President and an illegal removal of him from the country, without a trial is not going to garner much support from other leaders around the world. Never will, no matter where it happens.

What has not happened is any kind of demands from Obama. I have not seen that he has even spoken directly to the new leaders in Honduras, much less insist that they do something. He registered his opinion with the media, the OAS and the UN. To try and color this as if Obama has taken any kind of lead, or made any kind of demands is obviously poppy cock. The Costa Ricans are mediating, the Hondurans are moving forward with making sure Zelaya faces charges, should he return, and the US, the Whitehouse and Obama have been fairly quiet about the whole thing. I think Obama played it well, not giving Chavez or Castro any ammo to claim that the US was behind the coup while also directing his response to the OAS, just as he promised he would in Central American matters.

As far as what will happen? I think Zelaya will not return to Honduras anytime soon. Perhaps sometime in the future, a new president down there will pardon him and allow him to come home. But he will never be president of Honduras. He will probably live in exile somewhere in Central America and bark at anyone who will listen for the next ten years. Honduras will have their scheduled elections and we will be able to recognize a democratic elected president and emerge none the worse for wear from the whole incident precisely because Obama has not made public investment in demands from Honduras.

The removing him from the country may have been over the top, but the rest was constitutional. As for discussion about Obama regarding this, you're correct in 'no demands'. However he made his position clear, which was agreement with Chavez and Castro regarding reinstatement. That it flies in the face of Honduran Supreme Court, Congress, Constitution? No matter. Couple with his reactions to Russia in Georgia, Iran elections, says tons on his perspective on freedoms.

 

[Sweet Willy]

While Obama is certainly not calling upon the Marines to reinstate Zelaya to power, as you acknowledge, Obama is calling for something unconstitutional, along with Chavez and Castro.

And that is the only point I was making, in specific to Divecon. She phrased a loaded question and doesn't have the brains to rephrase it so that an honest answer can be given.

Obama certainly has stated what his position, what the Whitehouse position is. They have said what they think should be done, they have voiced their opinion to the OAS and the UN and the media. What they have not done is insist that Honduras do anything. I haven't seen anywhere that we have even made a direct statement to the Hondurans.

still lying

and i was born male and still am
which you have been told before

Sorry about that. I thought you were a girl.


Divecon, when Obama speaks directly and firmly to the people who can actually restore this guy to Honduras, then he is insisting. That is what insisting is, dumbass, speaking directly and firmly. It is just a fraction below a demand. If you don't like what he's said, fine, but what he has DONE is not a matter of opinion. And he has not made any demands or insisted anything. It's impossible for him to do so without speaking directly to the only people who can do whatever it is he insist.

 

[Foxfyre]

Good article Annie. Seems to get to the heart of the problem. I don't think Zelaya should be returned to power and if he is, he should subsequently be arrested and removed, the right way this time. There is an appearance of guilt and he should have the opportunity to defend himself from the charges.

As for what world leaders have said, it is nearly unanamous. While the article cites only three leaders, Obama, Chavez and Castro, nearly everyone has condemed the military removal of Zelaya, that's the OAS and the UN. No sane leader is going to support the use of military force to remove a sitting president. It's pretty simple math.

Well after I picked myself off the floor, I read the rest of your post. So, the military actually acted for the most part, within the orders of the courts/Congress. They overstepped at getting him out of country, though that seems they were acting more in his favor than not. No? Meaning, keeping him out of jail, though denying the trial.

Yes, thank you for posting Estrada's position on this matter. I was going to do that if nobody else had.

I was recently researching military action ordered by all U.S. Presidents from the first of the 20th Century to the present, and Honduras showed up at least once on almost every single list. That little country has been having all manner of trouble for a very long time now. And I believe this is the first time they've had a crisis come to a head without significant violence.

I don't know any more than anybody else does, but I suspect Zelaya was whisked out of the country to prevent a riot or keep his supporters from being tempted to form a vigilante group to bust him out of jail. But from everything I've read the only Coup that was attempted was attempted by Zelaya who seemed to be intent on setting himself up as permanent dicator. That's pretty much the way Hugo Chavez accomplished it.

 

[DiveCon]

And that is the only point I was making, in specific to Divecon. She phrased a loaded question and doesn't have the brains to rephrase it so that an honest answer can be given.

Obama certainly has stated what his position, what the Whitehouse position is. They have said what they think should be done, they have voiced their opinion to the OAS and the UN and the media. What they have not done is insist that Honduras do anything. I haven't seen anywhere that we have even made a direct statement to the Hondurans.

still lying

and i was born male and still am
which you have been told before

Sorry about that. I thought you were a girl.


Divecon, when Obama speaks directly and firmly to the people who can actually restore this guy to Honduras, then he is insisting. That is what insisting is, dumbass, speaking directly and firmly. It is just a fraction below a demand. If you don't like what he's said, fine, but what he has DONE is not a matter of opinion. And he has not made any demands or insisted anything. It's impossible for him to do so without speaking directly to the only people who can do whatever it is he insist.

you are not only a fucking liar, but you are the dumbass
i gave you proof to back up what i said
you continue to kiss obamas ass so much you have fallen inside

 

[Sweet Willy]

Well after I picked myself off the floor, I read the rest of your post. So, the military actually acted for the most part, within the orders of the courts/Congress. They overstepped at getting him out of country, though that seems they were acting more in his favor than not. No? Meaning, keeping him out of jail, though denying the trial.

I'm not sure what the motivation for taking him out of the country was. I read that it was a "last minute" decision but no word on who made that decision. The detainment order was only for detaining him in his home, as I undersatnd. A kind of house arrest, I guess. But the decision to take him out of the country could have been made for any number of reasons. Maybe they just figured it was a short cut to avoid a trial and what that would entail. Who knows. At any rate, Zelaya didn't want to go and seemed ready to defend his actions, although he must be one self assured SOB to think there was any defense when the congress, courts and military are lined up against you.

All in all, Zelaya was the cause of the whole thing. Regardless, world leaders aren't going to support the move to use the military to depose him and send him into exile. It was a really bad move in an otherwise well orchestrated and legal plan to remove him from office. Too bad they screwed it up.

The bulk of the argument here has been about what Obama has done, which is next to nothing. He made a couple statements about it, emphasized the legal aspects of the removal and that democracy has to be held above the rest of this mess. Zelaya is the elected President and an illegal removal of him from the country, without a trial is not going to garner much support from other leaders around the world. Never will, no matter where it happens.

What has not happened is any kind of demands from Obama. I have not seen that he has even spoken directly to the new leaders in Honduras, much less insist that they do something. He registered his opinion with the media, the OAS and the UN. To try and color this as if Obama has taken any kind of lead, or made any kind of demands is obviously poppy cock. The Costa Ricans are mediating, the Hondurans are moving forward with making sure Zelaya faces charges, should he return, and the US, the Whitehouse and Obama have been fairly quiet about the whole thing. I think Obama played it well, not giving Chavez or Castro any ammo to claim that the US was behind the coup while also directing his response to the OAS, just as he promised he would in Central American matters.

As far as what will happen? I think Zelaya will not return to Honduras anytime soon. Perhaps sometime in the future, a new president down there will pardon him and allow him to come home. But he will never be president of Honduras. He will probably live in exile somewhere in Central America and bark at anyone who will listen for the next ten years. Honduras will have their scheduled elections and we will be able to recognize a democratic elected president and emerge none the worse for wear from the whole incident precisely because Obama has not made public investment in demands from Honduras.

The removing him from the country may have been over the top, but the rest was constitutional. As for discussion about Obama regarding this, you're correct in 'no demands'. However he made his position clear, which was agreement with Chavez and Castro regarding reinstatement. That it flies in the face of Honduran Supreme Court, Congress, Constitution? No matter. Couple with his reactions to Russia in Georgia, Iran elections, says tons on his perspective on freedoms.

That is the only point I have contested to Divecon. She keeps on posting what the Whitehouse has said to the press, what the Whitehouse believes, and what the Whitehouse finds acceptable. No one has insisted or demanded anything.

As far as the position, Obama made it clear that his position is based on democracy. Zelaya is the only elected President that exist. Had he been removed legally, I don't think we would be having this conversation. Obama, nor any other leader can safely endorse the use of military force to remove the guy. It would be a political football and Divecon would be bashing Obama for supporting a military coup.

He has played it right. Largely left the issue to the people who should settle it while denying Chavez and Castro the pleasure of blaming him for the coup. And you know that is exactly where they would have gone with the issue.

 

[DiveCon]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House says it sees no acceptable solution to the ouster of the president of Honduras other than returning him to power.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Tuesday that State Department officials have been in touch with ousted President Manuel , and the White House is continuing to work on the situation.
Gibbs says that if Zelaya does come to Washington, he'll most likely meet with officials at the State Department.
The White House spokesman says there are no plans to recall the U.S. ambassador to Honduras, because having a representative there is important.

again, for that lying dishonest moron sweet willy

 

[Sweet Willy]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House says it sees no acceptable solution to the ouster of the president of Honduras other than returning him to power.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Tuesday that State Department officials have been in touch with ousted President Manuel , and the White House is continuing to work on the situation.
Gibbs says that if Zelaya does come to Washington, he'll most likely meet with officials at the State Department.
The White House spokesman says there are no plans to recall the U.S. ambassador to Honduras, because having a representative there is important.

again, for that lying dishonest moron sweet willy

So, we haven't even recalled our ambassador?

The Whitehouse has said what it finds "acceptable".

Where is the demand? Where do they insist and to whom and from whom have they insisted anything?

Even Annie recognizes that Obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

 

[Annie]

I'm not sure what the motivation for taking him out of the country was. I read that it was a "last minute" decision but no word on who made that decision. The detainment order was only for detaining him in his home, as I undersatnd. A kind of house arrest, I guess. But the decision to take him out of the country could have been made for any number of reasons. Maybe they just figured it was a short cut to avoid a trial and what that would entail. Who knows. At any rate, Zelaya didn't want to go and seemed ready to defend his actions, although he must be one self assured SOB to think there was any defense when the congress, courts and military are lined up against you.

All in all, Zelaya was the cause of the whole thing. Regardless, world leaders aren't going to support the move to use the military to depose him and send him into exile. It was a really bad move in an otherwise well orchestrated and legal plan to remove him from office. Too bad they screwed it up.

The bulk of the argument here has been about what Obama has done, which is next to nothing. He made a couple statements about it, emphasized the legal aspects of the removal and that democracy has to be held above the rest of this mess. Zelaya is the elected President and an illegal removal of him from the country, without a trial is not going to garner much support from other leaders around the world. Never will, no matter where it happens.

What has not happened is any kind of demands from Obama. I have not seen that he has even spoken directly to the new leaders in Honduras, much less insist that they do something. He registered his opinion with the media, the OAS and the UN. To try and color this as if Obama has taken any kind of lead, or made any kind of demands is obviously poppy cock. The Costa Ricans are mediating, the Hondurans are moving forward with making sure Zelaya faces charges, should he return, and the US, the Whitehouse and Obama have been fairly quiet about the whole thing. I think Obama played it well, not giving Chavez or Castro any ammo to claim that the US was behind the coup while also directing his response to the OAS, just as he promised he would in Central American matters.

As far as what will happen? I think Zelaya will not return to Honduras anytime soon. Perhaps sometime in the future, a new president down there will pardon him and allow him to come home. But he will never be president of Honduras. He will probably live in exile somewhere in Central America and bark at anyone who will listen for the next ten years. Honduras will have their scheduled elections and we will be able to recognize a democratic elected president and emerge none the worse for wear from the whole incident precisely because Obama has not made public investment in demands from Honduras.

The removing him from the country may have been over the top, but the rest was constitutional. As for discussion about Obama regarding this, you're correct in 'no demands'. However he made his position clear, which was agreement with Chavez and Castro regarding reinstatement. That it flies in the face of Honduran Supreme Court, Congress, Constitution? No matter. Couple with his reactions to Russia in Georgia, Iran elections, says tons on his perspective on freedoms.

That is the only point I have contested to Divecon. She keeps on posting what the Whitehouse has said to the press, what the Whitehouse believes, and what the Whitehouse finds acceptable. No one has insisted or demanded anything.

As far as the position, Obama made it clear that his position is based on democracy. Zelaya is the only elected President that exist. Had he been removed legally, I don't think we would be having this conversation. Obama, nor any other leader can safely endorse the use of military force to remove the guy. It would be a political football and Divecon would be bashing Obama for supporting a military coup.

He has played it right. Largely left the issue to the people who should settle it while denying Chavez and Castro the pleasure of blaming him for the coup. And you know that is exactly where they would have gone with the issue.

He WAS removed legally, by both the legislature and Supreme Court, he may have illegally been moved out of the country, as I implied, perhaps mistakenly by military trying to avoid prison for him.

 

[DiveCon]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House says it sees no acceptable solution to the ouster of the president of Honduras other than returning him to power.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Tuesday that State Department officials have been in touch with ousted President Manuel , and the White House is continuing to work on the situation.
Gibbs says that if Zelaya does come to Washington, he'll most likely meet with officials at the State Department.
The White House spokesman says there are no plans to recall the U.S. ambassador to Honduras, because having a representative there is important.

again, for that lying dishonest moron sweet willy

So, we haven't even recalled our ambassador?

The Whitehouse has said what it finds "acceptable".

Where is the demand? Where do they insist and to whom and from whom have they insisted anything?

Even Annie recognizes that Obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

REALLY????
where did Annie say that?

 

[Annie]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House says it sees no acceptable solution to the ouster of the president of Honduras other than returning him to power.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Tuesday that State Department officials have been in touch with ousted President Manuel , and the White House is continuing to work on the situation.
Gibbs says that if Zelaya does come to Washington, he'll most likely meet with officials at the State Department.
The White House spokesman says there are no plans to recall the U.S. ambassador to Honduras, because having a representative there is important.

again, for that lying dishonest moron sweet willy

So, we haven't even recalled our ambassador?

The Whitehouse has said what it finds "acceptable".

Where is the demand? Where do they insist and to whom and from whom have they insisted anything?

Even Annie recognizes that Obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

Even Annie, recognizes that what Obama and Chavez and Castro are calling for is illegal under the Honduran constitution...

 

[DiveCon]

again, for that lying dishonest moron sweet willy

so, we haven't even recalled our ambassador?

The whitehouse has said what it finds "acceptable".

Where is the demand? Where do they insist and to whom and from whom have they insisted anything?

Even annie recognizes that obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

even annie, recognizes that what obama and chavez and castro are calling for is illegal under the honduran constitution...

thank you!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sweet Willy]

The removing him from the country may have been over the top, but the rest was constitutional. As for discussion about Obama regarding this, you're correct in 'no demands'. However he made his position clear, which was agreement with Chavez and Castro regarding reinstatement. That it flies in the face of Honduran Supreme Court, Congress, Constitution? No matter. Couple with his reactions to Russia in Georgia, Iran elections, says tons on his perspective on freedoms.

That is the only point I have contested to Divecon. She keeps on posting what the Whitehouse has said to the press, what the Whitehouse believes, and what the Whitehouse finds acceptable. No one has insisted or demanded anything.

As far as the position, Obama made it clear that his position is based on democracy. Zelaya is the only elected President that exist. Had he been removed legally, I don't think we would be having this conversation. Obama, nor any other leader can safely endorse the use of military force to remove the guy. It would be a political football and Divecon would be bashing Obama for supporting a military coup.

He has played it right. Largely left the issue to the people who should settle it while denying Chavez and Castro the pleasure of blaming him for the coup. And you know that is exactly where they would have gone with the issue.

He WAS removed legally, by both the legislature and Supreme Court, he may have illegally been moved out of the country, as I implied, perhaps mistakenly by military trying to avoid prison for him.

Probably. I am not sure that he wasn't due a trial though to seal the deal. He certainly appears guilty, he certainly seems to deserve to be removed from office. And though he doesn't appear to recognoze it, returning to Honduras would surely be the end of him.

I am not aware of anyone that has recognized the new Honduran Government or that has not condemmed the coup. I know it's fun to put Obama's name beside Chavez and Castro but the OAS and the UN were unanamous on their votes. Everyone has agreed that the removal was not done properly. And there is a very simple reason that you guys don't want to talk about, evidently. No sane leader can endorse the military removal of a sitting president. It is an untenable position to take. Chavez and Castro and evidently, the rest of the world would be implicating us in the plot.

It was a good move. Take the high ground, stand back and let them work it out.

 

[Sweet Willy]

so, we haven't even recalled our ambassador?

The whitehouse has said what it finds "acceptable".

Where is the demand? Where do they insist and to whom and from whom have they insisted anything?

Even annie recognizes that obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

even annie, recognizes that what obama and chavez and castro are calling for is illegal under the honduran constitution...

thank you!!!!!!!!!

Be sure to let me know when Obama starts making demands.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Even Annie recognizes that Obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

REALLY????
where did Annie say that?

The removing him from the country may have been over the top, but the rest was constitutional. As for discussion about Obama regarding this, you're correct in 'no demands'. However he made his position clear, which was agreement with Chavez and Castro regarding reinstatement. That it flies in the face of Honduran Supreme Court, Congress, Constitution? No matter. Couple with his reactions to Russia in Georgia, Iran elections, says tons on his perspective on freedoms.

Can you read Divecon? Do you bother?

 

[Annie]

again, for that lying dishonest moron sweet willy

So, we haven't even recalled our ambassador?

The Whitehouse has said what it finds "acceptable".

Where is the demand? Where do they insist and to whom and from whom have they insisted anything?

Even Annie recognizes that Obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

REALLY????
where did Annie say that?

Thank you.

 

[DiveCon]

Even Annie recognizes that Obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

REALLY????
where did Annie say that?

The removing him from the country may have been over the top, but the rest was constitutional. As for discussion about Obama regarding this, you're correct in 'no demands'. However he made his position clear, which was agreement with Chavez and Castro regarding reinstatement. That it flies in the face of Honduran Supreme Court, Congress, Constitution? No matter. Couple with his reactions to Russia in Georgia, Iran elections, says tons on his perspective on freedoms.

Can you read Divecon? Do you bother?

she was just quoting YOU, moron

 

[Sweet Willy]

Even Annie recognizes that Obama has not made any demands of anyone. Get a grip.

The removing him from the country may have been over the top, but the rest was constitutional. As for discussion about Obama regarding this, you're correct in 'no demands'. However he made his position clear, which was agreement with Chavez and Castro regarding reinstatement. That it flies in the face of Honduran Supreme Court, Congress, Constitution? No matter. Couple with his reactions to Russia in Georgia, Iran elections, says tons on his perspective on freedoms.

Can you read Divecon? Do you bother?

she was just quoting YOU, moron

You aren't that dumb, just that pig headed.

 

[DiveCon]

Can you read Divecon? Do you bother?

she was just quoting YOU, moron

You aren't that dumb, just that pig headed.

no, i'm RIGHT
and YOU are WRONG

hey asshole, did you ever think she had said that without seeing what the white house spokesman had said?
and now that she has seen it because i had to actually POST it rather than just the link, and now she understands that it WAS a demand
you are too fucking stupid for words

 

[Sweet Willy]

No dip shit, she said clearly that I was correct.

There have been no demands made.

There is no tap dancing around it, you're officially ignored. You are not capable of recognizing reality.