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Homosexuals & the Scripture

glockmail

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This is one of my favorite bombs, as it ties in homosexuality with Arabs and, without mention, Islam. I'm not sure if he's right or not, but he presents an interesting and plausible case. No link, but you can goggle for the author easily enough. The last part is a response from Capener to a question that I asked him in another forum. :blowup:

Homosexuals & the Scripture
The rising tide of acceptance of homosexuality within some major Protestant denominations is demonstrable proof of the fact that church leaders within these denominations have totally lost touch – if in fact there ever was any – with the character and nature of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, these leaders have become what Jesus described as “the blind leading the blind.”
Minus a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, these “leaders” have resorted to philosophy, “cultural” change, and what I have come to classify as “sloppy agape.” (For those of you unfamiliar with this term, agape, it is the word used throughout the original New Testament Greek text to describe God’s love for us and through us.) Jesus was not a philosopher. He was, and is, the Son of God. He did not promote a philosophy: among other things, he came to redeem mankind from the enslavement to sin, and control of Satan. There was nothing philosophical or academic about Jesus’ teachings. He established THE baseline of Truth. He established the fundamental ground rules for freedom, liberty, peace, and deliverance from the perversion of Satan.
Since homosexuality perverts the design of Creation, and renders God’s purpose of procreation moot, we know that the claim of some homosexuals that they were “born homosexual” is a myth. God NEVER creates anything that interferes with His purpose and design. The only thing homosexuals were born with was the ability to decide to sin, and give way to a perverse lust, or to walk with the Lord.
Take a look at some of the foundations of Creation.
Genesis 1:11 says, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth; and it was so.” (Quotes are from the KJV)
Verse 12 reads, “And the earth brought forth grass, and the herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind; and God saw that it was good.”
Now we move to the creation of mankind. Genesis 1:26, 27 says, “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.”
The foundational rule was everything reproducing “after his kind.” Nowhere was there a suggestion of any variance in this rule. Homosexuals do not reproduce. They kill the whole reproductive process.
Following the fall of Adam and Eve, and their removal from the Garden of Eden, Satan began perverting the purposes of God in the human race. The very first reference to a homosexual act in Scripture occurs when Ham, the son of Noah, went into his father’s tent while Noah was in a drunken stupor, and “saw the nakedness of his father.” (see Genesis 9:22)
While somewhat euphemistic, this phrase is a Hebrew metaphor which literally means to engage in illicit sex with. The phrase appears other places in Scripture, but this incidence is quite telling.
Verse 24 of the same chapter says, “And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.”
This was not a case of Ham simply stumbling into his fatherÂ’s tent and accidentally finding him naked. His act toward his father had lifetime consequences that extended to every generation that came forth from his loins.
Since Ham already had a son, Canaan, Noah could not cut off the seed coming forth from his son, so he said, “Cursed be Canaan: a servant of servants shall he be to his brethren.” (verse 25)
The further consequence of Ham’s sin of homosexuality is illustrated in the fact that the seven sons of Canaan each fathered tribes that became nations occupying all of what generally became known as the land of Canaan. Those seven nations were identified as the Hittites, the Jebusites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, and the Canaanites. The curse of Noah upon Ham’s seed was, in reality, God’s curse; and in Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, the Lord says to Moses, “When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whiter thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them: thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them; Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son……”
God wasnÂ’t playing games with this sin! He was out to wipe it from the face of the earth. It is a unique irony that ancient Israel, under the leadership of Joshua and his successors, failed to keep GodÂ’s commandment. The modern-day Palestinians, Jordanians, Iraqis and Iranians are descendants of these seven nations. Because Israel did not execute GodÂ’s judgment 3500 years ago, they are today plagued with peoples in the surrounding regions that are dedicated to their extermination.
God’s hatred and intolerance for the sin of homosexuality is illustrated in the Law he gave to Moses: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” (see Leviticus 20:13)
YesterdayÂ’s decision by the Episcopal bishops to ordain a homosexual bishop in their midst flies even in the face of Grace.
The excuse given that “we must show the grace of Jesus Christ to the homosexual and lesbian community, and demonstrate a spirit of inclusion rather than exclusion” is just so much pandering religious garbage. The grace of Jesus Christ provides forgiveness from the sin of homosexuality – so long as the homosexual repents and turns from his sin. That grace does NOT include acceptance of homosexuality as an “alternative lifestyle.”
Church leaders who pander to this new/(old?) political correctness open themselves to the judgment of the Lord. They ignore the very plain instruction of the apostle Paul, who wrote to the Romans, (see chapter 1) “21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
It is time that Christians everywhere rise up and say to leaders like this, “NO MORE ! ! !” We will no longer tolerate the acceptance of sin in the body of Christ!
Likewise, it is incumbent upon us as true conservatives, politically speaking, to say to our leaders in government (and to vote accordingly at election time) “We will not tolerate the acceptance of this kind of deviant behavior as a social norm, nor will we validate this as an acceptable lifestyle by legalizing homosexual or lesbian marriages or civil unions.”
When the righteous stand up and be counted, evil must flee!
-- Regner A. Capener

Proof of: "The modern-day Palestinians, Jordanians, Iraqis and Iranians are descendants of these seven nations."

I spent several years doing research on the history, the makeup, and the characteristics of the seven nations that occupied ancient Canaan. The reason for my study was a unique parallel that I stumbled across one day in reading the seven letters to the seven "Ekklesias" (not churches) in Revelation 2 & 3. Being an amateur Hebrew and Greek scholar -- at least a student of those languages -- I was interested in the makeup of the seven nations, and why God had pronounced such judgment on them. I began gathering every single piece of material I could -- from historical sources, the Library of Congress, archaeological references, etc. -- that dealt with the history, the economy, the military, and the spiritual emphasis within each of the seven. I can't even begin to get into all of it here because it is so lengthy, but let me give you a quick synopsis.
Each of the seven nations were descended from Canaan, the firstborn son of Ham (who was the son of Noah). Because of Ham's sin against his father ( a homosexual act) while his father was in a drunken state, Noah pronounced a curse upon Ham's generations. Following the great flood, because all of the people born into the world were of Noah's family, they pretty much tended to stay within the same region -- the Mesopotamian delta. When Nimrod rebelled against God and attempted to build his "tower reaching unto heaven" (the Tower of Babel), and God divided the people by dividing their languages, everyone began to spread abroad. Canaan's descendants took up occupancy throughout the eastern Mediterranean region, occupying the lands that presently make up present-day Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, parts of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and Libya. The spread of those descendants is clearly documented through archaeological finds and historical references.
When God delivered the children of Israel from Egypt under Moses' leadership, he instructed Moses and Joshua to "utterly destroy" every trace of seven of those descendant nations: the Hittites, Hivites, Jebusites, Perizzites, Amorites, Girgashites, and Canaanites. We know that the Hittite nation was the fiercest of the seven, occupying what is now much of Turkey and Iraq, and extending into Iran. The Hivites occupied what we have come to know as Syria and Lebanon and parts of Jordan. The Amorites occupied what was once called the land of the Philistines -- the Gaza strip, and portions of the Sinai peninsula. We could go on, but you get the picture.
Instead of wiping out these nations, Joshua began his conquest of Canaan by compromising with the Girgashites, allowing them to live in their midst as slaves rather than wiping them out. Let's not forget, either, that the lands promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob included all of present-day Israel, much of the Sinai, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and a good portion of Jordan (and of course, all of the present-day Gaza strip). The Girgashite national characteristic is the principal characteristic we have come to identify with the Arabs, whose name in the Semitic language means "ambusher" (or "one who lies in wait"). NONE of those seven nations were eradicated by Israel. Throughout the centuries, until the Roman occupation and eventual --almost complete -- dispersion of the Jews throughout the world, the descendants of those nations continued to occupy those territories, marrying into each other, as well as the Jews, and eventually becoming the amalgam they presently are.
There are two major works by two 19th century historians that catalog the much of what I have just shared. The first is a six-volume work by Sir Henry Wilkinson titled, The Egyptians. It is out of print, but you mind find a copy of it in a library or a used book store (if you are incredibly fortunate). The second work is, The Two Babylons. I'm sorry that I've forgotten the name of the husband-wife team that wrote it, but I will find my copy and email their names to you. There is another major historical work in 12 volumes by another husband-wife team that I will get you the name of. It has been out of print for perhaps 20 or 30 years, but you should be able to find a copy in almost any decent library.
 

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Glock:

Curently, I'm attending BSF(Bible Study Fellowship). It's a non-denominational, no fee bible study for men and women.

It does a study of a book of the bible on a 9 month calendar year from Sept through June.

We are currently studying the N.T. book of Romans.
*
The reason I brought this up, is that the very first chapter of Romans goes extensively, and thorougly into the fall of man and man's need of a relationship with his Creator. Also it(Chapter 1) explains the consequences of Man, willfully ignoring the evidences of God's revealed existence, both through observing creation itself, and also through the special revelatory evidence of Christ's incarnation, life, death(crucifixion), burial, and ressurrection.

These consequences upon man, include what might be called depravity, or spiraling into the lowest of life condition, mimicking the survivalist, animal world itself, yet we are talking about humanity, not lizards, or Zebras.

Paul goes on to say that when man is left to his own philosophy or free will to choose with the willful omission of God from the choices, the resultant condition of man is a spiral towards depravity, but initially starts with spiritual blindness or darkening of the soul to any and all things of a Holy, moral, or Godly nature.

Here is a exerpt from Romans, Chapter 1, that explicitly shows that homosexuality is a result of a sick spiritual condition, not brought on by God, but by man's fallen nature, and that nature's desire to resist God.

Unbelief and Its ConsequencesRomans 1: 18-32

18For (AJ)the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who (AK)suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because (AL)that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

20For (AM)since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, (AN)being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

21For even though they knew God, they did not [c]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became (AO)futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22(AP)Professing to be wise, they became fools,

23and (AQ)exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and [d]crawling creatures.

24Therefore (AR)God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be (AS)dishonored among them.

25For they exchanged the truth of God for a (AT)lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, (AU)who is blessed forever. Amen.

26For this reason (AV)God gave them over to (AW)degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, (AX)men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, (AY)God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are (AZ)gossips,

30slanderers, (BA)haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, (BB)disobedient to parents,

31without understanding, untrustworthy, (BC)unloving, unmerciful;

32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of (BD)death, they not only do the same, but also (BE)give hearty approval to those who practice them.

 

Eightball

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Well, another interesting part of the Romans chapter 1 excerpt is that it doesn't say that God forced or made these folks do what they did as a result of their rejection of Him, but "Gave them over". This in it's greek translation means that basically God let "God rejecting" man take a "natural" spirial into depravity. In other words, without God in one's life, the alternative is a gradual downward incline towards depravity. This goes for all humanity.

I also believe that parents may at times be very accountable for the resultant deviancy's that show up in their children, yet those that embrace these deviancy's were given a "will" or "chooser" by their Maker, and were not "puppets" bound for hell, against their will/desires.

I also love or find interesting where St. Paul in that Romans quote, refers to man's " speculations", and it's resultant or basic foolishness.

So often I observe on the forums these intellectual wonders posting-away with literary, vernacular, skill, yet missing the elementary wisdoms of common sense.

God's gospel, is not complex, or hard to comprehend. It is however hard to "swallow" if that person is purposely avoiding, acknowledgement of a Creator, who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent over their lives.

God-rejecting man's only solace is to make up a system of belief that centers on his or her's philosophically, safe interpretation of life, being, existence, and or accountability to some extent. God's truth is like a bright shining light that leaves no dark places hidden from view. It exposes any and all places that need cleaning. It also exposes and leads one from living a lie to living in a truthful, accountability of their own life.

Whether a person remembers how they became or got into their particular sin, is irrelevant. Man's desire to escape accountability, is to claim victimhood, when perplexed or pressed to face his very base nature. "I had no choice." "I was attracted to men."

As Gunny has emphatically said in previous topics along these lines, "No one makes you choose badly, or wrong. You made the choice."

I would ad one stipulation or further clarification to this issue of choosing poorly/wrongly. No where in the bible does it say that we as Christians are to make choices in life based on "feelings" but on objective reasoning. Feelings are a blessing from God, as they give so much to our very humanity, but feelings are emotions, and emotions are not factual thoughts, but "urgings" such as anger, sadness, joy...etc.

The same goes for sex, and who and when it happens. Adultery is an urging based on erroneous data or lies. It is a violation of God's stated and emphatic reasoning and command that marriage is sacred, and it metaphorically represents the union of Christ(bride groom) and the church(Christ's bride).

Just because we are attracted to the same sex, does not validate it as "right". It just means that we have an urging. Urgings or emotions or feelings are not the way we, as humans are to substantiate the truth or the truth for our lives to follow-in.

As stated in Romans Chapter 1, these folks are without excuse, but do not want to accept that fact. If they accept that fact, they must naturally take the next step of repudiating their wrong choices, and that is the path to repentance or a turning-away of from that wrong/sinful act.

Why don't people en-mass turn away? Because in most cases, sin feeds or assuages the base, animalistic, fallen nature of man, in his very fallen state. Sin is an escape from accountability. Sin is also very self-centered in it's primal act.
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One famous bible verse says, " Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

Trouble is, that the fallen nature of man, interprets faith this way, "Faith comes by feeling, and feeling is the substantiator of all truth.". God's Word or truth is followed because it's written down, and interpretted........as written. The world thinks that if something doesn't feel right to them, then it automatically should be rejected. Thence the downward spiral begings.

The distinction between the two above verses are the distinction between reasoning with a sound mind and reasoning based on feelings/emotions. Feelings can support truth, and feelings can go contrary to truth, yet the world will rely on feelings, and ignore the obvious to their own detrement. Feelings should never be the arbiter of decisions but be the supporter of decisions based on objective reasoning. Homosexuality fails on the objective test, but may pass with honors on the feelings test.
 

dilloduck

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Well, another interesting part of the Romans chapter 1 excerpt is that it doesn't say that God forced or made these folks do what they did as a result of their rejection of Him, but "Gave them over". This in it's greek translation means that basically God let "God rejecting" man take a "natural" spirial into depravity. In other words, without God in one's life, the alternative is a gradual downward incline towards depravity. This goes for all humanity.

I also believe that parents may at times be very accountable for the resultant deviancy's that show up in their children, yet those that embrace these deviancy's were given a "will" or "chooser" by their Maker, and were not "puppets" bound for hell, against their will/desires.

I also love or find interesting where St. Paul in that Romans quote, refers to man's " speculations", and it's resultant or basic foolishness.

So often I observe on the forums these intellectual wonders posting-away with literary, vernacular, skill, yet missing the elementary wisdoms of common sense.

God's gospel, is not complex, or hard to comprehend. It is however hard to "swallow" if that person is purposely avoiding, acknowledgement of a Creator, who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent over their lives.

God-rejecting man's only solace is to make up a system of belief that centers on his or her's philosophically, safe interpretation of life, being, existence, and or accountability to some extent. God's truth is like a bright shining light that leaves no dark places hidden from view. It exposes any and all places that need cleaning. It also exposes and leads one from living a lie to living in a truthful, accountability of their own life.

Whether a person remembers how they became or got into their particular sin, is irrelevant. Man's desire to escape accountability, is to claim victimhood, when perplexed or pressed to face his very base nature. "I had no choice." "I was attracted to men."

As Gunny has emphatically said in previous topics along these lines, "No one makes you choose badly, or wrong. You made the choice."

I would ad one stipulation or further clarification to this issue of choosing poorly/wrongly. No where in the bible does it say that we as Christians are to make choices in life based on "feelings" but on objective reasoning. Feelings are a blessing from God, as they give so much to our very humanity, but feelings are emotions, and emotions are not factual thoughts, but "urgings" such as anger, sadness, joy...etc.

The same goes for sex, and who and when it happens. Adultery is an urging based on erroneous data or lies. It is a violation of God's stated and emphatic reasoning and command that marriage is sacred, and it metaphorically represents the union of Christ(bride groom) and the church(Christ's bride).

Just because we are attracted to the same sex, does not validate it as "right". It just means that we have an urging. Urgings or emotions or feelings are not the way we, as humans are to substantiate the truth or the truth for our lives to follow-in.

As stated in Romans Chapter 1, these folks are without excuse, but do not want to accept that fact. If they accept that fact, they must naturally take the next step of repudiating their wrong choices, and that is the path to repentance or a turning-away of from that wrong/sinful act.

Why don't people en-mass turn away? Because in most cases, sin feeds or assuages the base, animalistic, fallen nature of man, in his very fallen state. Sin is an escape from accountability. Sin is also very self-centered in it's primal act.
*
One famous bible verse says, " Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

Trouble is, that the fallen nature of man, interprets faith this way, "Faith comes by feeling, and feeling is the substantiator of all truth.". God's Word or truth is followed because it's written down, and interpretted........as written. The world thinks that if something doesn't feel right to them, then it automatically should be rejected. Thence the downward spiral begings.

The distinction between the two above verses are the distinction between reasoning with a sound mind and reasoning based on feelings/emotions. Feelings can support truth, and feelings can go contrary to truth, yet the world will rely on feelings, and ignore the obvious to their own detrement. Feelings should never be the arbiter of decisions but be the supporter of decisions based on objective reasoning. Homosexuality fails on the objective test, but may pass with honors on the feelings test.

Are you equating adultery with homosexuality ?
 
OP
glockmail

glockmail

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.....I also believe that parents may at times be very accountable for the resultant deviancy's that show up in their children,.....

Awesome post man. I agree 100% with all of it.

When I grew up my Mom bought the Dr. Spock book, and the philosophy of the age was to let children "do their own thing". This resulted in a lot of screwed up kids. I think my Dad figured out what was going on and threw the book away, because we were raised the way they were raised. My parents had five kids, and all were married once and are still married. My brothers a kooky liberal- and he has a kid who is an anarchist, but the rest of us all turned out OK.
 

Eightball

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Are you equating adultery with homosexuality ?

Equating in what way.........?

Comparing the two as the same.........? No.

See the two as both sin..........? Yes.

One is a violation of the order of God's natural creative design, while the other doesn't violate God's natural creative design, but does violate God's commands to not fornicate, or violate the marriage bed.
.....
All have fallen short of the glory of God..........all have sinned.......be it adultery, or homosexuality, stealing, murder, child abuse, spousal abuse, lieing, etc.
......
Distinction: With all the above, what is the perpetraitor's attitude afterwards? Repentance?= Turning away from the sinful act. Contrite of heart, sorrow for doing it, with the willful attitude to change for the better.......
.....
For those that say, that homosexuality falls into a different level of sin, that God deals with differently, I see no distinction in the bible.

I will say that my reading of scripture does mention that in the end, when all are judged..........those that were given a lot of knowledge of right and wrong........will be held with greater accountability for their life's deeds, than those who weren't presented with those opportunities/insights. Never the less, all of humanity is without excuse, as God's existence, is not hidden from them, as it is easily discernible throughout the display of creation itself...i.e. stars, science, macro and micro molecular chemistry with it's mathematically predictable orderliness, micro and macro life, etc.... This all can be found in Romans Chapter 1. That is basically God's, General Revelation of Himself to all of humanity. Now beyond that, there is God's, Special Revelation to humanity, and that is Christ, and the ensuing gospel as clearly revealed in the N.T..
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Yes, I equate homosexuality with adultery in the frame work of disobedience to God.........and that is sin. Isn't it?

Both also are covered and forgiveable by God through Christ, aren't they?:thup:
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I apologize to you, if I'm going out on a "wrong" track with my reply.
 

dilloduck

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Equating in what way.........?

Comparing the two as the same.........? No.

See the two as both sin..........? Yes.

One is a violation of the order of God's natural creative design, while the other doesn't violate God's natural creative design, but does violate God's commands to not fornicate, or violate the marriage bed.
.....
All have fallen short of the glory of God..........all have sinned.......be it adultery, or homosexuality, stealing, murder, child abuse, spousal abuse, lieing, etc.
......
Distinction: With all the above, what is the perpetraitor's attitude afterwards? Repentance?= Turning away from the sinful act. Contrite of heart, sorrow for doing it, with the willful attitude to change for the better.......
.....
For those that say, that homosexuality falls into a different level of sin, that God deals with differently, I see no distinction in the bible.

I will say that my reading of scripture does mention that in the end, when all are judged..........those that were given a lot of knowledge of right and wrong........will be held with greater accountability for their life's deeds, than those who weren't presented with those opportunities/insights. Never the less, all of humanity is without excuse, as God's existence, is not hidden from them, as it is easily discernible throughout the display of creation itself...i.e. stars, science, macro and micro molecular chemistry with it's mathematically predictable orderliness, micro and macro life, etc.... This all can be found in Romans Chapter 1. That is basically God's, General Revelation of Himself to all of humanity. Now beyond that, there is God's, Special Revelation to humanity, and that is Christ, and the ensuing gospel as clearly revealed in the N.T..
*
Yes, I equate homosexuality with adultery in the frame work of disobedience to God.........and that is sin. Isn't it?

Both also are covered and forgiveable by God through Christ, aren't they?:thup:
*
I apologize to you, if I'm going out on a "wrong" track with my reply.

No apology necessary--you answer was right on track. Thanks.
 

mattskramer

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Oh please. The Bible is so full of inconsistency and absurdity that it is practically impossible for a logical and rational individual to take seriously. Besides that, there are many translation and interpretation of the Bible to suit practically any taste. IÂ’m not going to go into a lengthy analysis of the Bible and what is supposedly meant by GodÂ’s position on homosexuality or homosexual behavior. Those who really are interested or concerned can read

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm and http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm
 

Joz

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Oh please. The Bible is so full of inconsistency and absurdity that it is practically impossible for a logical and rational individual to take seriously..........
The only inconsistencies you will find are due to cultural changes. You have 40 authors spanning over many years. Their message is all the same.
 

dilloduck

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Oh please. The Bible is so full of inconsistency and absurdity that it is practically impossible for a logical and rational individual to take seriously. Besides that, there are many translation and interpretation of the Bible to suit practically any taste. IÂ’m not going to go into a lengthy analysis of the Bible and what is supposedly meant by GodÂ’s position on homosexuality or homosexual behavior. Those who really are interested or concerned can read

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm and http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm

at least we've discovered the problem---you're not rational nor logical.
 

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Oh please. The Bible is so full of inconsistency and absurdity that it is practically impossible for a logical and rational individual to take seriously. Besides that, there are many translation and interpretation of the Bible to suit practically any taste. IÂ’m not going to go into a lengthy analysis of the Bible and what is supposedly meant by GodÂ’s position on homosexuality or homosexual behavior. Those who really are interested or concerned can read

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm and http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm

So I suppose George Washington, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Martin Luther King Jr., Blaise Pascal, Isaac Newton, Leo Tolstoy, Mother Theresa, and me, just to name a few, are not logical or rational? How arrogant. Face it, all you know about the Bible is what you want to know, the parts skeptics like to bring up out of context to keep it from looking true.
 

Bass v 2.0

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Oh please. The Bible is so full of inconsistency and absurdity that it is practically impossible for a logical and rational individual to take seriously. Besides that, there are many translation and interpretation of the Bible to suit practically any taste. IÂ’m not going to go into a lengthy analysis of the Bible and what is supposedly meant by GodÂ’s position on homosexuality or homosexual behavior. Those who really are interested or concerned can read

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm and Homosexuality in the Bible

Translation:

I can't refute whats written in the scriptures nor can I get around whats written so I'll just the attack the scriptures as unreliable because of my own lack of understanding of the scriptures.
 

AllieBaba

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So I suppose George Washington, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Martin Luther King Jr., Blaise Pascal, Isaac Newton, Leo Tolstoy, Mother Theresa, and me, just to name a few, are not logical or rational? How arrogant. Face it, all you know about the Bible is what you want to know, the parts skeptics like to bring up out of context to keep it from looking true.


Gosh, that's exactly what one could say about skeptics and nay-sayers.

All you know about the bible is what you want to know. You ignore the rest.

And I'll put God's logic up against any many's logic any time of the day or night. All your heroes are mere flashes in the pan, and any intelligence, logic or wisdom they have is nothing but a dirty mirror of the face of God. They were who they were because of God. Not in spite of him.
 
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I just want to say how wonderful it is to actually find a thread on a forum that is so supportive of the Holy Bible, Jesus and His teachings. May God bless each and every one of you. I honor your testimony and witness. :eusa_pray:
 

PeterS

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Glock:paul goes on to say that when man is left to his own philosophy or free will to choose with the willful omission of God from the choices, the resultant condition of man is a spiral towards depravity, but initially starts with spiritual blindness or darkening of the soul to any and all things of a Holy, moral, or Godly nature.

Why does the exercise of freewill and the absent of god from choices lead to depravity? Is the assumption that Man cannot use reason to discern right from wrong? If we abandon reason and simply follow what we are taught is gods word how is it we can know right from wrong?
 

Sunni Man

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This is one of my favorite bombs, as it ties in homosexuality with Arabs and, without mention, Islam
The tie in with the Arabs in this bogus article is incorrect Glockmail. (your so called "bomb" is a dud)


Abraham had two sons; Isaac and Ishmael

Isaac was the the father of 12 sons, who became the patriachs of the 12 Tribes of Israel

Ishmael also became the father of 12 sons, and they became the Patriachs of the 12 Tribes of the Arab people.

Read your Bible.

All of the tribes are named after the father of the tribe. (Abrahams grandsons)

The names of the 12 Jewish tribes are listed. They occupied Judea (Israel)

And the names of all 12 of the Arab tribes are also listed. (they occupied Arabia)


Again, read you Bible, this is what it says.
 
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