Homeschooling: the ultimate results

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did you read my post? Evidently you were homeschooled and never learned to read for content.

One example would disprove your theory. I provided that.

I stated fact not theory and a truly educated person knows that anecdotes ( which is your one example ) prove nothing.

You stated no evidence of any sort to undermine or challenge the facts and my facts were not absolutes but generalizations supported by evidence as many throughout the thread have shown,

My anecdotes are acquired through years of personal experience. What do you have? Stats that you haven't provided and if you did could be easily disproven in a matter of seconds.

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

Refute my position? They don't even make sense!

 

[rightwinger]

It has been demonstrated millions of times over

No it never has the burden is on you to demonstrate it not some vague other.

Poor children from struggling families could never afford an education
Free public education made it possible to succeed

Sure they could and they often got an education.

Only when it was free public school education
Girls? What do they need an education for

There is no such thing as FREE anything much less education and people did better with education when left alone by the state.

Women included.

Total fantasy

You are being obtuse

 

[Soupnazi630]

Yes it is.

Home schoolers overwhelmingly ARE in fact better educated than public schools which merely goes to show when people are left alone they will manage for themselves without state coercion which invariably fails

Are you basing that on all home schooled students, or just the ones who take college entrance exams? Many don't bother with those exams. You still didn't answer the question though.

I clearly did answer it.

YES IT IS.

As in yes it is ok and explained why.

NOT taking a college entrance exam does not indicate a lack of education so your singling out that example is irrelevant.

Not taking an entrance exam does indicate you can't use them in your example of how home schooled children compare to public schooled children. Your comparison is just taking the top home schoolers and comparing them to all public schooled children.

Sure you can as not all public school kids take those exams either

Wrong. In many states, the ACT or SAT is used for school accountability. I have watched students never open their test booklet, randomly mark their answer sheets, and take a nap. There is no carrot and no stick to get them to even try to do well on the test, but these are the same tests you amateurs use to show the decline in test scores over the years that really have not occurred except by forcing kids to take a test they have no interest in taking.

Um hey moron it is you guys forcing them to take those tests IN SOME STATE as you just proved.

Not the amateur home schoolers who are better teachers than a self proclaimed expert like you.

You fail to even challenge argument much less destroy them

\Still waiting for your evidence

 

[Soupnazi630]

No it never has the burden is on you to demonstrate it not some vague other.

Poor children from struggling families could never afford an education
Free public education made it possible to succeed

Sure they could and they often got an education.

Only when it was free public school education
Girls? What do they need an education for

There is no such thing as FREE anything much less education and people did better with education when left alone by the state.

Women included.

Total fantasy

You are being obtuse

Total fact you are uninformed

 

[Soupnazi630]

I stated fact not theory and a truly educated person knows that anecdotes ( which is your one example ) prove nothing.

You stated no evidence of any sort to undermine or challenge the facts and my facts were not absolutes but generalizations supported by evidence as many throughout the thread have shown,

My anecdotes are acquired through years of personal experience. What do you have? Stats that you haven't provided and if you did could be easily disproven in a matter of seconds.

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

Refute my position? They don't even make sense!

Yes they do and they prove you wrong

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did you read my post? Evidently you were homeschooled and never learned to read for content.

One example would disprove your theory. I provided that.

I stated fact not theory and a truly educated person knows that anecdotes ( which is your one example ) prove nothing.

You stated no evidence of any sort to undermine or challenge the facts and my facts were not absolutes but generalizations supported by evidence as many throughout the thread have shown,

My anecdotes are acquired through years of personal experience. What do you have? Stats that you haven't provided and if you did could be easily disproven in a matter of seconds.

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

I don't? How about the fact that I have dealt with this issue for most of my 20 years as an educator. You, on the other hand, are posting on a message board and have no experience.

Your arguments are falling apart and you cannot seem to handle that fact.

You are not an expert in this field, and believe me it shows.

 

[Correll]

I stated fact not theory and a truly educated person knows that anecdotes ( which is your one example ) prove nothing.

You stated no evidence of any sort to undermine or challenge the facts and my facts were not absolutes but generalizations supported by evidence as many throughout the thread have shown,

My anecdotes are acquired through years of personal experience. What do you have? Stats that you haven't provided and if you did could be easily disproven in a matter of seconds.

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

I don't? How about the fact that I have dealt with this issue for most of my 20 years as an educator. You, on the other hand, are posting on a message board and have no experience.

Your arguments are falling apart and you cannot seem to handle that fact.

You are not an expert in this field, and believe me it shows.

What is your view on cyberschool?

 

[Soupnazi630]

I stated fact not theory and a truly educated person knows that anecdotes ( which is your one example ) prove nothing.

You stated no evidence of any sort to undermine or challenge the facts and my facts were not absolutes but generalizations supported by evidence as many throughout the thread have shown,

My anecdotes are acquired through years of personal experience. What do you have? Stats that you haven't provided and if you did could be easily disproven in a matter of seconds.

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

I don't? How about the fact that I have dealt with this issue for most of my 20 years as an educator. You, on the other hand, are posting on a message board and have no experience.

Your arguments are falling apart and you cannot seem to handle that fact.

You are not an expert in this field, and believe me it shows.

Once again grandiose claim are neither evidence nor authority.

My arguments remain unchallenged by you and in fact you have reinforced my arguments.

You have done so by citing statistics which do not like but can offer no refutation against.

I never claimed to be an expert you did but you demonstrate it is a grandiose lie.

Your only argument is a childish UNHH UNNH and that is not an argument

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Are you basing that on all home schooled students, or just the ones who take college entrance exams? Many don't bother with those exams. You still didn't answer the question though.

I clearly did answer it.

YES IT IS.

As in yes it is ok and explained why.

NOT taking a college entrance exam does not indicate a lack of education so your singling out that example is irrelevant.

Not taking an entrance exam does indicate you can't use them in your example of how home schooled children compare to public schooled children. Your comparison is just taking the top home schoolers and comparing them to all public schooled children.

Sure you can as not all public school kids take those exams either

Wrong. In many states, the ACT or SAT is used for school accountability. I have watched students never open their test booklet, randomly mark their answer sheets, and take a nap. There is no carrot and no stick to get them to even try to do well on the test, but these are the same tests you amateurs use to show the decline in test scores over the years that really have not occurred except by forcing kids to take a test they have no interest in taking.

Um hey moron it is you guys forcing them to take those tests IN SOME STATE as you just proved.

Not the amateur home schoolers who are better teachers than a self proclaimed expert like you.

You fail to even challenge argument much less destroy them

\Still waiting for your evidence

I am betting that English is not even your first language, or you did poorly in school.

Teachers do not force anyone to take tests. If you want to know the truth, it is conservatives in the state government and in Congress that force these tests on student.

You don't even know who to blame for your own ignorance!

 

[Soupnazi630]

I clearly did answer it.

YES IT IS.

As in yes it is ok and explained why.

NOT taking a college entrance exam does not indicate a lack of education so your singling out that example is irrelevant.

Not taking an entrance exam does indicate you can't use them in your example of how home schooled children compare to public schooled children. Your comparison is just taking the top home schoolers and comparing them to all public schooled children.

Sure you can as not all public school kids take those exams either

Wrong. In many states, the ACT or SAT is used for school accountability. I have watched students never open their test booklet, randomly mark their answer sheets, and take a nap. There is no carrot and no stick to get them to even try to do well on the test, but these are the same tests you amateurs use to show the decline in test scores over the years that really have not occurred except by forcing kids to take a test they have no interest in taking.

Um hey moron it is you guys forcing them to take those tests IN SOME STATE as you just proved.

Not the amateur home schoolers who are better teachers than a self proclaimed expert like you.

You fail to even challenge argument much less destroy them

\Still waiting for your evidence

I am betting that English is not even your first language, or you did poorly in school.

Teachers do not force anyone to take tests. If you want to know the truth, it is conservatives in the state government and in Congress that force these tests on student.

You don't even know who to blame for your own ignorance!

You just stated that kids are force to take them in some states. True the state may be the one requiring it but the teachers are facilitating it so yes they do in fact by your own admission.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My anecdotes are acquired through years of personal experience. What do you have? Stats that you haven't provided and if you did could be easily disproven in a matter of seconds.

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

I don't? How about the fact that I have dealt with this issue for most of my 20 years as an educator. You, on the other hand, are posting on a message board and have no experience.

Your arguments are falling apart and you cannot seem to handle that fact.

You are not an expert in this field, and believe me it shows.

What is your view on cyberschool?

Pessimistic. We use on-line courses for remediation in may schools. The kids do a "pump and dump" on these courses and do not retain any of the information they are supposedly "learning".

My son took a class from the Florida Virtual School many years ago, and he struggled with many areas because of the limitations of the medium. He told me that if I had not been a math teacher to explain some of the concepts to him, he would have never passed.

If we want our kids to actually learn something, I find this is not the way to go.

My wife even uses on-line training for her job working for a cable provider. She is college educated, but still struggles with the fact that most of the resources she uses daily are on-line and she cannot access that information while taking the tests. Most of that instruction and testing is not designed by experts in education, so they usually manage to screw up the format.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Not taking an entrance exam does indicate you can't use them in your example of how home schooled children compare to public schooled children. Your comparison is just taking the top home schoolers and comparing them to all public schooled children.

Sure you can as not all public school kids take those exams either

Wrong. In many states, the ACT or SAT is used for school accountability. I have watched students never open their test booklet, randomly mark their answer sheets, and take a nap. There is no carrot and no stick to get them to even try to do well on the test, but these are the same tests you amateurs use to show the decline in test scores over the years that really have not occurred except by forcing kids to take a test they have no interest in taking.

Um hey moron it is you guys forcing them to take those tests IN SOME STATE as you just proved.

Not the amateur home schoolers who are better teachers than a self proclaimed expert like you.

You fail to even challenge argument much less destroy them

\Still waiting for your evidence

I am betting that English is not even your first language, or you did poorly in school.

Teachers do not force anyone to take tests. If you want to know the truth, it is conservatives in the state government and in Congress that force these tests on student.

You don't even know who to blame for your own ignorance!

You just stated that kids are force to take them in some states. True the state may be the one requiring it but the teachers are facilitating it so yes they do in fact by your own admission.

You are completely clueless. We are not even the ones facilitating the test. You know so little about this topic you are tap dancing in a minefield. Stop making baseless claims you cannot back up because we are not in some parallel universe where your visions are reality.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Agree
Make home schoolers meet the same standards a public school must meet. If you don't, your kid gets placed in public school

Make assholes like Wrongwinger mind their own business and not worry about other people’s children. If you don’t, your ass loses your citizenship and you are deported to Cuba.

You worry about everyone who does not live the you want, so somehow you are not, I think, going to get your wish.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My anecdotes are acquired through years of personal experience. What do you have? Stats that you haven't provided and if you did could be easily disproven in a matter of seconds.

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

I don't? How about the fact that I have dealt with this issue for most of my 20 years as an educator. You, on the other hand, are posting on a message board and have no experience.

Your arguments are falling apart and you cannot seem to handle that fact.

You are not an expert in this field, and believe me it shows.

Once again grandiose claim are neither evidence nor authority.

My arguments remain unchallenged by you and in fact you have reinforced my arguments.

You have done so by citing statistics which do not like but can offer no refutation against.

I never claimed to be an expert you did but you demonstrate it is a grandiose lie.

Your only argument is a childish UNHH UNNH and that is not an argument

Give me something to refute! The fact that you don't recognize that your beliefs are dead wrong is a testament to your own stupidity. Your childish attempts to use someone else's links to bolster your argument doesn't cut it as I have already dismissed them as biased and bald faced lies.

You keep making a claim and I shoot it down because you are dead wrong. You are just pissed because you are finding that what you have been told to believe is a lie. Liberals and conservatives all lie to promote their views.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course. Some home school parents are concerned and capable of giving their children a great education. The one on one teaching is much better than a large class. However, it's wrong to say all parents are educated enough to give their children a quality education, and pointing to the ones lucky enough to have parents do as the expected outcome of home schooling is just wrong. With required standards home schooling could be a great idea. Without them lots of children are missing the chance at a better, more productive life.

You don't have to have a great education yourself to give your child one. There are resources that make that possible.

Of course there are. That's where the ones with the high SATs come from. Many don't take advantage of those resources, and nothing in federal law says they have to. If there were requirements for parents to use those resources, or to determine if the child is being taught anything, then home schooling might be a viable option.

If the parents want their kids to go on to college, they have to take the SAT's just like everyone else. We don't see large numbers of home schooled children suffering because they didn't get s good education. Just the opposite.

Any idea the percentage of home schooled children who actually take those tests?

Just the ones that go to college.

And so many of them have trouble with critical thinking skills. My friends at uni say it is great watching them as they unravel the socio-cultural baggage of their parents and emerge as excited, finally thinking individuals.

 

[The Irish Ram]

And believe me if I home schools I'd teach them to be hard core socialist as my wife and her parents are hard core.

So your idea of homeschooling is to teach them how to fill out HUD applications, and use their food stamp card...

 

[Soupnazi630]

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

I don't? How about the fact that I have dealt with this issue for most of my 20 years as an educator. You, on the other hand, are posting on a message board and have no experience.

Your arguments are falling apart and you cannot seem to handle that fact.

You are not an expert in this field, and believe me it shows.

Once again grandiose claim are neither evidence nor authority.

My arguments remain unchallenged by you and in fact you have reinforced my arguments.

You have done so by citing statistics which do not like but can offer no refutation against.

I never claimed to be an expert you did but you demonstrate it is a grandiose lie.

Your only argument is a childish UNHH UNNH and that is not an argument

Give me something to refute! The fact that you don't recognize that your beliefs are dead wrong is a testament to your own stupidity. Your childish attempts to use someone else's links to bolster your argument doesn't cut it as I have already dismissed them as biased and bald faced lies.

You keep making a claim and I shoot it down because you are dead wrong. You are just pissed because you are finding that what you have been told to believe is a lie. Liberals and conservatives all lie to promote their views.

You have been given something to refute, the studies cited in the OP which you openly admit you will not address and only ignore.

You cited stats yourself which you will not and are incapable of refuting.

You have no evidence whatsoever that what I have said is dead wrong you simply disagree with it.

You cannot prove any such baldfaced lies or any bias you simply make the claim then assert authority which you do not have.

The argument here is facts and evidence versus your idiotic assertions which have no support

 

[jillian]

And believe me if I home schools I'd teach them to be hard core socialist as my wife and her parents are hard core.

So your idea of homeschooling is to teach them how to fill out HUD applications, and use their food stamp card...

Is English not your first language? Read with comprehension. And stop lying. You're embarrassing.

Homeschooling-- where you can pretend that the Bible is science and there are no people of color and you can discriminate against anyone you want.

Because Jesus

 

[JakeStarkey]

soupnazi has given nothing objective to refute

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.

I don't? How about the fact that I have dealt with this issue for most of my 20 years as an educator. You, on the other hand, are posting on a message board and have no experience.

Your arguments are falling apart and you cannot seem to handle that fact.

You are not an expert in this field, and believe me it shows.

Once again grandiose claim are neither evidence nor authority.

My arguments remain unchallenged by you and in fact you have reinforced my arguments.

You have done so by citing statistics which do not like but can offer no refutation against.

I never claimed to be an expert you did but you demonstrate it is a grandiose lie.

Your only argument is a childish UNHH UNNH and that is not an argument

Give me something to refute! The fact that you don't recognize that your beliefs are dead wrong is a testament to your own stupidity. Your childish attempts to use someone else's links to bolster your argument doesn't cut it as I have already dismissed them as biased and bald faced lies.

You keep making a claim and I shoot it down because you are dead wrong. You are just pissed because you are finding that what you have been told to believe is a lie. Liberals and conservatives all lie to promote their views.

You have been given something to refute, the studies cited in the OP which you openly admit you will not address and only ignore.

You cited stats yourself which you will not and are incapable of refuting.

You have no evidence whatsoever that what I have said is dead wrong you simply disagree with it.

You cannot prove any such baldfaced lies or any bias you simply make the claim then assert authority which you do not have.

The argument here is facts and evidence versus your idiotic assertions which have no support

The OPs link is to a book. There is no information there.
The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide by Wayne Allyn Root on iBooks

Now, please point out what I am supposed to refute? The price?