Home improvement horror stories?

[nt250]

Anyone got any?

I have a few from my renovation job.

I paid $7000 for a tile floor I didn't really want, but was under pressure to put in.

They didn't clean off the grout before it dried and they never came back.

It looks like shit.

I've got more.

Someone make me feel better and post your horror stories about getting screwed by incompetent home improvement contractors.

 

[William Joyce]

Sue 'em!

Washing machine installer effs up the connection. We come down a few days later, and the basement's flooded. It was a mini-Katrina. The "consolation" is that the idiot left behind his DeWal powerdriver, which he never came back to retrieve, even after we left it out on the porch for him.

 

[Said1]

My bathroom that remains unfinished to this day. I think the landlady paid her sons to renovate about 2 yrs ago. The only thing left is paint. She swears they painted it. She's blind, so how the fuck would she know? Yes, Kathianne, the saga continues.

 

[Annie]

My bathroom that remains unfinished to this day. I think the landlady paid her sons to renovate about 2 yrs ago. The only thing left is paint. She swears they painted it. She's blind, so how the fuck would she know? Yes, Kathianne, the saga continues.

OMG! I thought that was done a year ago?

 

[Gunny]

Anyone got any?

I have a few from my renovation job.

I paid $7000 for a tile floor I didn't really want, but was under pressure to put in.

They didn't clean off the grout before it dried and they never came back.

It looks like shit.

I've got more.

Someone make me feel better and post your horror stories about getting screwed by incompetent home improvement contractors.

I don't really have any horror stories, but since I'm an electrician, let me know if you need some more.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

$7000 for a tile job? Holy crap, I'm in the wrong business. How many square feet was that? Was it granite or something? If worst comes to worst, you can get a bottle of grout haze remover...but what a pain.

My horror story: I put in a laminate floor and then out of nowhere developed a very pronounced foundation problem. Protip: when you buy a house with foundation work already done, even by a reputable company with a lifetime warranty, don't assume that the foundation is actually fixed for good. For starters, they have to come back out and raise the front of the house a good 1/2" ~ 3/4". But that's not a big deal. The problem is, the wall dividing the garage and kitchen never got any piers. Think about how much weight a car puts down right next to that wall. An engineer at my office says if a foundation company gives a bid that doesn't reinforce a wall like this, don't even talk to them.

So now it's going to be $1300 or so, which is really not bad, but the whole kitchen floor is sunk in. 3 piers will fix the garage wall and that's fine and dandy, but that still leaves the sunken kitchen floor. Ideally you want to just put piers under structural walls, and not under unsupported floors. The only other options are urethane foam injection ($2500) or pumping cement underneath. But then the soil might expand and actually make the floor bulge up. Sigh.

Then there's the bathroom tub surround I started, ugh. It's going to be awesome, but every little thing that can go wrong, has. I've just realized that the old tub faucet was fine before but now with backerboard and tiles, I have to customize the length of the little tubes that cover the valves.

I don't really have any horror stories, but since I'm an electrician, let me know if you need some more.

How about a 40 amp A/C unit being fed by an 80 foot run of 10-2? Ugh.

 

[Gunny]

$7000 for a tile job? Holy crap, I'm in the wrong business. How many square feet was that? Was it granite or something? If worst comes to worst, you can get a bottle of grout haze remover...but what a pain.

My horror story: I put in a laminate floor and then out of nowhere developed a very pronounced foundation problem. Protip: when you buy a house with foundation work already done, even by a reputable company with a lifetime warranty, don't assume that the foundation is actually fixed for good. For starters, they have to come back out and raise the front of the house a good 1/2" ~ 3/4". But that's not a big deal. The problem is, the wall dividing the garage and kitchen never got any piers. Think about how much weight a car puts down right next to that wall. An engineer at my office says if a foundation company gives a bid that doesn't reinforce a wall like this, don't even talk to them.

So now it's going to be $1300 or so, which is really not bad, but the whole kitchen floor is sunk in. 3 piers will fix the garage wall and that's fine and dandy, but that still leaves the sunken kitchen floor. Ideally you want to just put piers under structural walls, and not under unsupported floors. The only other options are urethane foam injection ($2500) or pumping cement underneath. But then the soil might expand and actually make the floor bulge up. Sigh.

Then there's the bathroom tub surround I started, ugh. It's going to be awesome, but every little thing that can go wrong, has. I've just realized that the old tub faucet was fine before but now with backerboard and tiles, I have to customize the length of the little tubes that cover the valves.



How about a 40 amp A/C unit being fed by an 80 foot run of 10-2? Ugh.

The length is not a factor (in your case). Running 40 amps off 10s IS. Minimum, you need 8s. If your AC is actually pulling 40 amps (they usually don't except for startup) you have a fire hazard. If it isn't pulling enough amps for startup, your unit doesn't work.

 

[nt250]

$7000 for a tile job? Holy crap, I'm in the wrong business. How many square feet was that? Was it granite or something? If worst comes to worst, you can get a bottle of grout haze remover...but what a pain.

My horror story: I put in a laminate floor and then out of nowhere developed a very pronounced foundation problem. Protip: when you buy a house with foundation work already done, even by a reputable company with a lifetime warranty, don't assume that the foundation is actually fixed for good. For starters, they have to come back out and raise the front of the house a good 1/2" ~ 3/4". But that's not a big deal. The problem is, the wall dividing the garage and kitchen never got any piers. Think about how much weight a car puts down right next to that wall. An engineer at my office says if a foundation company gives a bid that doesn't reinforce a wall like this, don't even talk to them.

So now it's going to be $1300 or so, which is really not bad, but the whole kitchen floor is sunk in. 3 piers will fix the garage wall and that's fine and dandy, but that still leaves the sunken kitchen floor. Ideally you want to just put piers under structural walls, and not under unsupported floors. The only other options are urethane foam injection ($2500) or pumping cement underneath. But then the soil might expand and actually make the floor bulge up. Sigh.

Then there's the bathroom tub surround I started, ugh. It's going to be awesome, but every little thing that can go wrong, has. I've just realized that the old tub faucet was fine before but now with backerboard and tiles, I have to customize the length of the little tubes that cover the valves.



How about a 40 amp A/C unit being fed by an 80 foot run of 10-2? Ugh.

I was pretty desperate. The floor wasn't part of my deal with the contractor but the crew boss, Lenny, told me I really needed to have the floor in before the cabinets and everything else. My house is on a slab, and the floor was so uneven, that Lenny said he could deal with it by shimming it all, but that it would look like shit. I also decided on granite counters, which meant the cabinets were going to be pretty much permanent once the counters were installed. So I had to do the floor.

I have two of the dumbest dogs on planet so that really affected my choice of floors. I couldn't go with hardwood because the dogs would have ruined them. I looked into vinyl but the guy who came out said that it would cost me just as much to have the floor leveled for vinyl as it would to do tile. I didn't want tile, but it's the only floor that made sense with the dogs.

It's a big room, but they definately screwed me on the price. It did take two guys three days with a jackhammer to get up the old kitchen tile, and I have no idea how many bags of leveling compound to get the floor level. In hindsight, I don't know why they didn't just put the leveling compound over the existing tile. The floor was that far out of level that should have worked.

The job started out good, but I think he got another job and wanted to move on, so after he did the grout he told me go buy a mop. I thought he was joking. He never came back.

Thanks for the tip about grout haze remover. I'll look into that.

 

[007]

I don't really have any horror stories, but since I'm an electrician, let me know if you need some more.

Well holy crap Gunny, I'm a lisenced electrician in the state of Wisconsin...

I've done construction and home building and home maintenance for years, so I don't have any horror stories either. If I needed something done in one of my homes, I did it myself. Saved major cash, and I knew it was done right.

 

[nt250]

I don't really have any horror stories, but since I'm an electrician, let me know if you need some more.

As an electrician, what's your opinion about this:

I had my bathroom re-done this past spring. It came out really great. But the electrician put back all the old electrical outlets. The old, dirty, electric plug and light switch.

I didn't notice it until the day after I paid the contractor and I have since hired another electrican to replace them. I know the contractor didn't do it himself because I was home when the electrician came. He seemed like a nice older man. I had a broken light bulb in one of my outside fixtures, and there was something wrong with one of the can lights in my kitchen, and I paid him $50 to fix those.

I was just really suprised that he would do that.

 

[007]

As an electrician, what's your opinion about this:

I had my bathroom re-done this past spring. It came out really great. But the electrician put back all the old electrical outlets. The old, dirty, electric plug and light switch.

I didn't notice it until the day after I paid the contractor and I have since hired another electrican to replace them. I know the contractor didn't do it himself because I was home when the electrician came. He seemed like a nice older man. I had a broken light bulb in one of my outside fixtures, and there was something wrong with one of the can lights in my kitchen, and I paid him $50 to fix those.

I was just really suprised that he would do that.

Replacing the switch and outlet should have been in the job estimate.

 

[Gunny]

As an electrician, what's your opinion about this:

I had my bathroom re-done this past spring. It came out really great. But the electrician put back all the old electrical outlets. The old, dirty, electric plug and light switch.

I didn't notice it until the day after I paid the contractor and I have since hired another electrican to replace them. I know the contractor didn't do it himself because I was home when the electrician came. He seemed like a nice older man. I had a broken light bulb in one of my outside fixtures, and there was something wrong with one of the can lights in my kitchen, and I paid him $50 to fix those.

I was just really suprised that he would do that.

PR is correct, and before being suprised he would do that, you need to remember that the electrician is a subcontractor of the general contractor. Subs bid with the contractor for a performance of work, and anything the subcontractor is required to provide in the way of material, devices or equipment is specified in the bid.

What many owners don't get is that the contract for work between the sub and the general contractor is between those two, not the owner. Techincally, if you the owner walk up to a sub and ask them to do or change anything, the sub is supposed to refer you to the general contractor.

To determine who is at fault, you would need to see the contract between the GC and the electrical contractor. If replacing devices and/or utilization equipment was included in the eletrician's bid, then he would be liable. If it is included in the GCs bid to you but not the electrician's, then the GC is contractually liable to replace those devices/equipment.

The bottom line is the electrician is going to do only what he is paid to do by the contractor. It really isn't a matter of what we think is right or wrong after contracting to do the work. It's a matter of doing what we are contracted to do, and there have been times when the plans call for re-using all existing lighting and devices (switches, plugs). We take it on faith that the GC is acting on behalf of the owner and if he says re-use the stuff, we're going to. And we'll stand there and make fun of you for being a cheapskate while we re-install it too!

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

It's a big room, but they definately screwed me on the price. It did take two guys three days with a jackhammer to get up the old kitchen tile, and I have no idea how many bags of leveling compound to get the floor level. In hindsight, I don't know why they didn't just put the leveling compound over the existing tile. The floor was that far out of level that should have worked.

Hmm yeah, removing tile is a pain in the rectum. I've done it a couple times just for small bathrooms and it's not fun. Tiles come up easy, but the old mortar doesn't. Still, they do sell (or rent, I assume) great big floor strippers, for large jobs. But maybe it's cheaper to just hire unskilled labor to bust everything up the old fashioned way.

If the floor is uneven enough that you can really see it, I can't help but wonder if you've got a slowly sinking slab that will eventually become uneven again. It will really suck if your problem continues to get worse, and you need piers in the middle of your pretty new floor in the future. Then they have to bust a hole in your slab to put piers underneath.

Electricians: is there some sort of tool that I can use to plug into different outlets, and tell if they're on the same circuit? I could switch off breakers one at a time and see what's affected but I'm lazy. I have a sneaking suspicion that my refridgerator, kitchen outlets, and maybe even dishwasher are all on one circuit. Up in my attic I see one bundle coming into a junction box over the kitchen, then there's like 4 drops branching off of that. Maybe I'll be lucky and there's some extra runs underneath the insulation that I haven't spotted yet.

 

[Gunny]

Hmm yeah, removing tile is a pain in the rectum. I've done it a couple times just for small bathrooms and it's not fun. Tiles come up easy, but the old mortar doesn't. Still, they do sell (or rent, I assume) great big floor strippers, for large jobs. But maybe it's cheaper to just hire unskilled labor to bust everything up the old fashioned way.

If the floor is uneven enough that you can really see it, I can't help but wonder if you've got a slowly sinking slab that will eventually become uneven again. It will really suck if your problem continues to get worse, and you need piers in the middle of your pretty new floor in the future. Then they have to bust a hole in your slab to put piers underneath.

Electricians: is there some sort of tool that I can use to plug into different outlets, and tell if they're on the same circuit? I could switch off breakers one at a time and see what's affected but I'm lazy. I have a sneaking suspicion that my refridgerator, kitchen outlets, and maybe even dishwasher are all on one circuit. Up in my attic I see one bundle coming into a junction box over the kitchen, then there's like 4 drops branching off of that. Maybe I'll be lucky and there's some extra runs underneath the insulation that I haven't spotted yet.

Bad news, the easiest way to determine which outlets are on a certain circuit breaker is to switch that breaker off. It's pretty easy in a house because you just don't have that many. The job is usually done to minimum standard per the NEC.

I don't do houses, but I can tell you this ..... lighting and power are usually on separate circuits. That is not code, but a rule of thumb.

Receptacles in bathrooms and garages must be GFCI protected. You will usually find the one by your kitchen sink, and all bathroom outlets protected by one GFCI located in the garage. The rest of your general purpose outlets are usually on one or two circuits, depending on how many you have.

Greenlee makes a rather inexpensive tester that lights up if power is detected. They sell them at Home Depot and Lowe's here, in the electrical department. Lazy or not, it wouldn't take that long. Turn the breaker off and check the receptacle. That's how the pro's do it.

 

[nt250]

Hmm yeah, removing tile is a pain in the rectum. I've done it a couple times just for small bathrooms and it's not fun. Tiles come up easy, but the old mortar doesn't. Still, they do sell (or rent, I assume) great big floor strippers, for large jobs. But maybe it's cheaper to just hire unskilled labor to bust everything up the old fashioned way.

If the floor is uneven enough that you can really see it, I can't help but wonder if you've got a slowly sinking slab that will eventually become uneven again. It will really suck if your problem continues to get worse, and you need piers in the middle of your pretty new floor in the future. Then they have to bust a hole in your slab to put piers underneath.

Electricians: is there some sort of tool that I can use to plug into different outlets, and tell if they're on the same circuit? I could switch off breakers one at a time and see what's affected but I'm lazy. I have a sneaking suspicion that my refridgerator, kitchen outlets, and maybe even dishwasher are all on one circuit. Up in my attic I see one bundle coming into a junction box over the kitchen, then there's like 4 drops branching off of that. Maybe I'll be lucky and there's some extra runs underneath the insulation that I haven't spotted yet.

My floor was so uneven that once they moved the fridge to the inside wall, to demo the outside wall for the addition, I had to hold on to the door everytime I opened it or it would slam into the wall. They did do a pretty good job of leveling the floor. If they had cleaned the grout off, I'd be happy. And I should have listen to the asshole and gone out and bought a mop.

The water table around here is very high. When they dug the hole for the frost wall for the addition it was full of water. I have a drainage easement behind my house and when you walk back about half way across my yard you can feel it under your feet. The ground feels like a sponge.

I don't miss having a basement. I have a neighbor up the street who does have a basement and they are constantly pumping water down the street. It's bizarre.

 

[nt250]

PR is correct, and before being suprised he would do that, you need to remember that the electrician is a subcontractor of the general contractor. Subs bid with the contractor for a performance of work, and anything the subcontractor is required to provide in the way of material, devices or equipment is specified in the bid.

What many owners don't get is that the contract for work between the sub and the general contractor is between those two, not the owner. Techincally, if you the owner walk up to a sub and ask them to do or change anything, the sub is supposed to refer you to the general contractor.

To determine who is at fault, you would need to see the contract between the GC and the electrical contractor. If replacing devices and/or utilization equipment was included in the eletrician's bid, then he would be liable. If it is included in the GCs bid to you but not the electrician's, then the GC is contractually liable to replace those devices/equipment.

The bottom line is the electrician is going to do only what he is paid to do by the contractor. It really isn't a matter of what we think is right or wrong after contracting to do the work. It's a matter of doing what we are contracted to do, and there have been times when the plans call for re-using all existing lighting and devices (switches, plugs). We take it on faith that the GC is acting on behalf of the owner and if he says re-use the stuff, we're going to. And we'll stand there and make fun of you for being a cheapskate while we re-install it too!

I think my contractor was on drugs. Seriously, that's what I think.

I had HVAC put in about 6 months before I had the bathroom done and the contractor made a huge deal about the grate in the ceiling. It was a little dirty. He made a really big deal about it. About how I needed to get it clean because he didn't want to put it back that way.

I tried Windex. I ran it through the dishwasher. I even soaked it in bleach. It was still a little stained, but it was as clean as I was ever going to get it.

It just went up my ass a mile that the contracter would tell the electrician to re-use the old outlets. And that the electrician would do so. They only cost a couple of bucks and he seemed like a nice guy. He should have asked me.

I tried to do it myself but I screwed it up and ended up having to call Mr. Electric.

 

[Gunny]

I think my contractor was on drugs. Seriously, that's what I think.

I had HVAC put in about 6 months before I had the bathroom done and the contractor made a huge deal about the grate in the ceiling. It was a little dirty. He made a really big deal about it. About how I needed to get it clean because he didn't want to put it back that way.

I tried Windex. I ran it through the dishwasher. I even soaked it in bleach. It was still a little stained, but it was as clean as I was ever going to get it.

It just went up my ass a mile that the contracter would tell the electrician to re-use the old outlets. And that the electrician would do so. They only cost a couple of bucks and he seemed like a nice guy. He should have asked me.

I tried to do it myself but I screwed it up and ended up having to call Mr. Electric.

Yes, receptacles cost only a few bucks each. Where do you draw the line throwing freebies back at the owner? You may as well just negotiate a lower price because that is what it amounts to.

I don't see why you think the electrican would NOT re-use old devices. Unless they are damaged or otherwise inoperable, there is no functional reason not to, and it's done all the time.

Did you ask the electrician to replace them? As I previously stated, the electrician is contracted to do specific work. If you didn't even talk to him about it, how's he supposed to know what you want?

A lot of people reuse devices to cut cost. While you seem to think it is out of the ordinary, it is not. And I'm not really defending this guy from any point of view but my own. Was I the electrician I would have clarified with the contractor that he wanted me to re-use the old devices, then, unless YOU said something, I assume that is what you want because the contractor represents you to me.

If you ask me, I then go back to the contractor and tell him what you want, usually dragging you along with me so I am sure that when all is said and done there is a decision made between you two and I know what it is. My contribution to the conversation will be "since the new devices were not included in the contract, I'm going to provide a receipt and charge the contractor for it." (The time to (re)install them is already in the original contract so that isn't an issue in this case.)

Again, the guy may be a complete dirtbag for all I know. The way I do business is I want you, the customer, satisfied because I want you the customer to call me back.

However, bear in mind that I also want that contractor to call me back because the way things usually work, most electric companies get a bulk of their work from one or two contractors repeatedly, and technically, he is my customer.

I'll also point out that when you get a shady contractor, he's usually using bottom-of-the-barrel subs. And he may very well have been on drugs. It isn't all that uncommon; at least, in the electrical trade, most residential wiremen are potheads.

My point however is just make sure you're pointing your finger at the right person before you pull the trigger. Your bigger problem is with the contractor you hired. Your problems stem from there.

 

[nt250]

Yes, receptacles cost only a few bucks each. Where do you draw the line throwing freebies back at the owner? You may as well just negotiate a lower price because that is what it amounts to.

I don't see why you think the electrican would NOT re-use old devices. Unless they are damaged or otherwise inoperable, there is no functional reason not to, and it's done all the time.

Did you ask the electrician to replace them? As I previously stated, the electrician is contracted to do specific work. If you didn't even talk to him about it, how's he supposed to know what you want?

A lot of people reuse devices to cut cost. While you seem to think it is out of the ordinary, it is not. And I'm not really defending this guy from any point of view but my own. Was I the electrician I would have clarified with the contractor that he wanted me to re-use the old devices, then, unless YOU said something, I assume that is what you want because the contractor represents you to me.

If you ask me, I then go back to the contractor and tell him what you want, usually dragging you along with me so I am sure that when all is said and done there is a decision made between you two and I know what it is. My contribution to the conversation will be "since the new devices were not included in the contract, I'm going to provide a receipt and charge the contractor for it." (The time to (re)install them is already in the original contract so that isn't an issue in this case.)

Again, the guy may be a complete dirtbag for all I know. The way I do business is I want you, the customer, satisfied because I want you the customer to call me back.

However, bear in mind that I also want that contractor to call me back because the way things usually work, most electric companies get a bulk of their work from one or two contractors repeatedly, and technically, he is my customer.

I'll also point out that when you get a shady contractor, he's usually using bottom-of-the-barrel subs. And he may very well have been on drugs. It isn't all that uncommon; at least, in the electrical trade, most residential wiremen are potheads.

My point however is just make sure you're pointing your finger at the right person before you pull the trigger. Your bigger problem is with the contractor you hired. Your problems stem from there.

Sorry, but I've had remodels done before and stuff like that is on the truck. I paid $10,000 for a new bathroom. There was no reason at all for the electrician to put back a dirty outlet that he probably had in his truck and cost $5 to replace new.

When I had my bathroom redone in my old house I went out and bought all the faces plates. Not the outlets themselves, just the face plates. I wanted them all to be white because I planned on a black and white bathroom. The electrician on that job almost acted insulted when I got home that day. "Of course I used white" he said. I didn't need any of the stuff I bought because he did it all.

I understand what you're saying, but even if the general contractor tells you to reuse the old dirty outlets, don't. If you can't take a new clean one off your truck, then don't complain when a customer is unhappy with your work. You're the one that screwed it back in.

 

[Gunny]

Sorry, but I've had remodels done before and stuff like that is on the truck. I paid $10,000 for a new bathroom. There was no reason at all for the electrician to put back a dirty outlet that he probably had in his truck and cost $5 to replace new.

When I had my bathroom redone in my old house I went out and bought all the faces plates. Not the outlets themselves, just the face plates. I wanted them all to be white because I planned on a black and white bathroom. The electrician on that job almost acted insulted when I got home that day. "Of course I used white" he said. I didn't need any of the stuff I bought because he did it all.

I understand what you're saying, but even if the general contractor tells you to reuse the old dirty outlets, don't. If you can't take a new clean one off your truck, then don't complain when a customer is unhappy with your work. You're the one that screwed it back in.

You are allowing your personal prejudices to cloud your judgement. You are basing your entire statement on your personal dislike for reusing existing devices and trying to make it sound like something devious and dirty when in fact, it is neither, and a completely accepted practice.

I'd bet money the recptacles you saw taken off "the truck" were purchased specifically for that job prior to getting to it. No electrician I know just carries enough receptacles around to wire a house/jobsite. Two or three maybe, and odds are at least one of them was removed from someplace and is a "used" receptacle. Material is purchased per job according to the plans/contract. So "taking a clean one off the truck" isn't an option IF the electrician was even willing to give you $100. worth of free material; which, I don't any of them that'll do THAT either.

If you have 15-20 outlets and that receptacle is "only $5," that's $75-$100. So it really isn't as simple as a $5. item.

I don't complain when the owner is dissatisfied with my work based on the owner's mistakes. Again, my customer is the contractor. I work for him, not the person who hires him, and I'm going to do the work in accordance with the contract he and I agree upon. THAT is what I am being paid for.

So again, your issue is with the contractor, and/or your contract with him. Trying to blame the electrician for that is just blame-shifiting IF he is doing what he was contracted to do by the contractor. You can't make any money giving away work and/or material, and THAT is why the electrician is in business -- to make money.

Even when I do something for "free" for one of my relatives, they STILL have to provide the material. All they get free is the labor and skill. The going rate for that alone around here is $80.-$100 per hour. Material is additional, not included.

 

[Said1]

I think it depends on the contractor. A guy came here, from a big company and he did have stuff on his truck but I'm sure the landlady was billed for the extras.

A smaller independant might not have that stuff readily available and probably worked it into the price if he did. No?