HOLY CRAP, my best friend might be RIGHT about Trump

[AntonToo]

This is completely false.

Medicare and Medicaid reimburse providers far less than private insurance and have way lower overhead due to economics of scales (and of course absence of multi-million dollar executives).

No shit sherlock, I already said that, unfortunately the fact that because TANSTAFL private market consumers have to make up for those costs through higher premiums.

What, did you think providers were just eating the costs?

If "no shit" then why the fuck would you say it is more expensive? It is not.

It is more expensive if you count the actual costs instead of just looking at the numbers the government publishes, in economics there are seen and unseen effects and both contribute to the final toll, I've already pointed out many of those unseen factors in this thread and you've completely ignored them since they are inconvenient to your strongly held opinions, nevertheless they remain real.

The TOLL is REDUCED HEALTHCARE SPENDING.

Medicare/Medicaid have long been driving healthcare costs down.

You're joking right? Healthcare cost inflation has been accelerating ever since the Federal Government got involved in the market and the more they get involved the more it has accelerated

...when did Federal Government get involved exactly according to you...is it ever since modern medicine got on the scene?

I know where this batshitnutery is headed and I have no interest in chasing your rabits down magical fantasies of government free healthcare system that takes care of everyone while self-containing the costs.

Never happened, never will.

 

[bendog]

I'd be interested to know what Republicans would think of this from a political perspective.

So my buddy and I met for beers yesterday, and this morning my foggy little brain could have SWORN he said that Trump may be pushing to expand the current Medicare / Medicare Advantage / Medicare Supplement system to all, which is PRECISELY what I have been SCREAMING for, for fucking YEARS.

Get this, according to Forbes, it's possible: Trump's Stealth Health Plan Could Be 'Medicare For All'

Good gawd, that would be nice. From the piece:

First, a little background. The premise of MFA is that everyone outside of corporate and government health plans would be automatically covered. There would be no state marketplaces, no provider networks and no draconian deductibles. You wouldn't have to apply and choose a plan based on premiums. Access would be a non-issue.

The Medicare system at present has four parts covering hospitals, medical services, an optional managed care and prescription drugs. You pay modest premiums for each component and can supplement out-of-pocket costs through private "supplement" or "Medigap" policies.

An expanded Medicare, in short, wouldn't just be for those over 65 and the permanently disabled. If you needed it, you'd get it at any age and wouldn't have to wait for enrollment periods or deal with an online marketplace. You could keep your doctors and local health care providers. Medicare would simply pay most the lion's share of your medical bills.

What makes me believe that Trump might back MFA? He's consistently said he wants "everybody" to be covered. That would happen with a single-payer program like Medicare.

"As far as single payer, it works in Canada," Trump said during a GOP debate in 2015. "It works incredibly well in Scotland. It could have worked in a different age, which is the age you’re talking about here,” he said, noting several times in the past he would not cut Medicare or Social Security, both of which are on the GOP's hit list.

“We’re going to have a health care that is far less expensive and far better,” said Trump at his news conference on Jan. 11. “We don’t want anyone who currently has insurance to not have insurance,” said Kellyanne Conway, a Trump adviser, on Jan. 3. “Also we are very aware that the public likes coverage for pre-existing conditions.”

Some Added Benefits

Does Trump truly back a single-payer plan or has he been casually spouting populist rhetoric while still in campaign mode? It's certainly been easy to be against Obamacare, but there's an upside to Medicare expansion because you could offer access to a popular, low-cost program that could actually reduce the overall costs of health care.

Better yet, MFA could replace the Affordable Care Act, which the GOP is in the process of dismantling, although it hasn't announced a viable replacement plan. Trump has also said he wants to scrap the law.

Here's another political bonus: The animus against Obamacare may not come into play with an expanded Medicare. The program is popular; polls consistently show that the public wants to keep it intact. And universal Medicare would eliminate most of the gripes people now have with Obamacare such as high deductibles, out-of-network fees, rising premiums and coverage gaps, which is a problem with any system anchored by private insurers.
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I don't think you label Trump with policy. He seems sincere in his belief that America was better before free trade. And he's not for free immigration of workers, but frankly we appear to be the only country insane enough to have followed that policy. Those turns 37 year of GOP ideology on it's head.

Trump did favor single payer some time ago. But congress is not going to pass that, and in fact they will reduce the dollars spent on Medicare, Soc Sec and Medicaid than would be spent under present law ... let alone single payer.

Congress is not going to triple the size of the DoJ to deport 12 million.

Congress seems to be willing to fund the wall, at least partially, because it appears Trump cannot weasel out of that one.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I'd be interested to know what Republicans would think of this from a political perspective.

So my buddy and I met for beers yesterday, and this morning my foggy little brain could have SWORN he said that Trump may be pushing to expand the current Medicare / Medicare Advantage / Medicare Supplement system to all, which is PRECISELY what I have been SCREAMING for, for fucking YEARS.

Get this, according to Forbes, it's possible: Trump's Stealth Health Plan Could Be 'Medicare For All'

Good gawd, that would be nice. From the piece:

First, a little background. The premise of MFA is that everyone outside of corporate and government health plans would be automatically covered. There would be no state marketplaces, no provider networks and no draconian deductibles. You wouldn't have to apply and choose a plan based on premiums. Access would be a non-issue.

The Medicare system at present has four parts covering hospitals, medical services, an optional managed care and prescription drugs. You pay modest premiums for each component and can supplement out-of-pocket costs through private "supplement" or "Medigap" policies.

An expanded Medicare, in short, wouldn't just be for those over 65 and the permanently disabled. If you needed it, you'd get it at any age and wouldn't have to wait for enrollment periods or deal with an online marketplace. You could keep your doctors and local health care providers. Medicare would simply pay most the lion's share of your medical bills.

What makes me believe that Trump might back MFA? He's consistently said he wants "everybody" to be covered. That would happen with a single-payer program like Medicare.

"As far as single payer, it works in Canada," Trump said during a GOP debate in 2015. "It works incredibly well in Scotland. It could have worked in a different age, which is the age you’re talking about here,” he said, noting several times in the past he would not cut Medicare or Social Security, both of which are on the GOP's hit list.

“We’re going to have a health care that is far less expensive and far better,” said Trump at his news conference on Jan. 11. “We don’t want anyone who currently has insurance to not have insurance,” said Kellyanne Conway, a Trump adviser, on Jan. 3. “Also we are very aware that the public likes coverage for pre-existing conditions.”

Some Added Benefits

Does Trump truly back a single-payer plan or has he been casually spouting populist rhetoric while still in campaign mode? It's certainly been easy to be against Obamacare, but there's an upside to Medicare expansion because you could offer access to a popular, low-cost program that could actually reduce the overall costs of health care.

Better yet, MFA could replace the Affordable Care Act, which the GOP is in the process of dismantling, although it hasn't announced a viable replacement plan. Trump has also said he wants to scrap the law.

Here's another political bonus: The animus against Obamacare may not come into play with an expanded Medicare. The program is popular; polls consistently show that the public wants to keep it intact. And universal Medicare would eliminate most of the gripes people now have with Obamacare such as high deductibles, out-of-network fees, rising premiums and coverage gaps, which is a problem with any system anchored by private insurers.
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So what would be the incentive for companies to continue having medical insurance as part of their benefits package?

What you are actually talking about id "medicaid for all" not medicare for all.

Companies would no longer HAVE to offer health insurance. They shouldn't have to in the first place. What a MASSIVE cost savings for our employers.

They could then, if they decide, compete for talent by offering better qualified and non-qualified retirement plans.
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So after 4 years of undergrad, 1.5 years of grad school, and 20 years with the company, they can just dump my ass into Medicare?

Well that's just fucking great, so once again I get to pay for other people's coverage by having my own fucked up.

THAT WAS THE END RESULT OF FUCKING OBAMACARE!!!!

People who have Medicare love it. And they love the choices they have when they shop for Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans from a nice, wide range of insurers who are competing and innovating for their business.
.

I have medicare. I am fortunate to have good health because I still have to pay for real doctors out of pocket. If I want to see a medicare doctor I have to go 50 miles and see a physician's assistant. That's how few doctors accept medicare. No I don't love medicare. It's useless. There is a wide range of insurance companies all offering the same thing but actually providing zip. Worst of all is the cost of prescription drugs. Some drugs cost more under the plan than cost without insurance at all. I have a skin cream that I use. Under the insurance plan I pay $47.00. I go to another pharmacy and pay out of pocket it's $17.00. I don't admit to hsving insurance.

Medicare doesn't work.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The plan isn't out yet so getting drunk and yammering on and on endlessly about it is a fool's game.

True, but can be loads of fun

 

[NYcarbineer]

Health care for all would be good. Torture as U.S. policy is, well, to put it gently, not good.

Trump is determined to make HC accessible to all....

Which cannot be accomplished without socialized medicine.

 

[HenryBHough]

"Medicare for all" is a great thing from the patient perspective when it works.

Britain has it - called "BHS".

But it doesn't work because there are too few doctors and more are retiring or leaving every day.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

How to make it work is to test every child for medical aptitudes and then place them in government medical schools. Once their education is complete they are required to work for the Natioinal Health Service and are forbidden to work at anything else.

Yeah, it's kinda like slavery - but it's for the good of the community, right?

 

[NightFox]

No shit sherlock, I already said that, unfortunately the fact that because TANSTAFL private market consumers have to make up for those costs through higher premiums.

What, did you think providers were just eating the costs?

If "no shit" then why the fuck would you say it is more expensive? It is not.

It is more expensive if you count the actual costs instead of just looking at the numbers the government publishes, in economics there are seen and unseen effects and both contribute to the final toll, I've already pointed out many of those unseen factors in this thread and you've completely ignored them since they are inconvenient to your strongly held opinions, nevertheless they remain real.

The TOLL is REDUCED HEALTHCARE SPENDING.

Medicare/Medicaid have long been driving healthcare costs down.

You're joking right? Healthcare cost inflation has been accelerating ever since the Federal Government got involved in the market and the more they get involved the more it has accelerated

...when did Federal Government get involved exactly according to you...is it ever since modern medicine got on the scene?

April 8, 1943 EO 9328 signed by that Economic Imbecile FDR which froze wage increases forcing employers to offer alternative compensation to attract workers, one of those was the buffet style, all you can eat employer sponsored health insurance plans we see today which turns the question of how to resolve "limited resources, unlimited human wants" on it's head, government programs operate under the assumption that the reverse is true and apparently so do the people that support such idiotic ideas as government run healthcare.

Health care goods and services aren't some magical infinite resource and the rules of capital formation and supply & demand don't magically disappear because people get sick; if you artificially cap prices and disconnect the consumer from the actual costs of their consumption you not only stunt capacity growth you drive costs UP by artificially squeezing supply and inflating demand, add all the idiotic taxes and regulations that have been layered on the health care industry and you get what we see today, unstable prices and supply shortages, somebody has to pay those costs since they don't just magically disappear because the government got involved. Actually government involvement alone increases them because of inefficiency and graft.

You want cheaper health care? stimulate competition, remove unnecessary regulation and taxes and hold the individual consumer accountable for their own ACTUAL consumption.