Hollande-Merkel plan to stop the conflict in the south-eastern Ukraine

[Sonc]

1) the position of Europe - lies.
2) build a good relationship too late.

Europe needs us.
We do not need Europe.

This is our advantage. We can fill the weakness - not developed some sectors of the economy. This problem is solved. Care of European products from the market will only help us to develop our own production.
We can launch rockets into space. We can make the phone =))) Ok? =))

Europe can suck dick. As Obama. Big red dick =)))

 

[bendog]

Putin to Merkel "no peace until I get my landbridge to Crimea"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The EU is a fucking joke. Putin knows they're a joke and are powerless to stop him, he also knows Obama is a fucking joke and will do nothing to stop him.

The EU must be semi-suicidal too since most of their oil comes from Russia and all Putin has to do is flick a switch and he can decimate the EU without firing a single shot.

 

[Stratford57]

Why have Merkel and Hollande rushed to negotiate with Putin? There are at least 3 reasons for that.

1. Unlike official Washington, Europe doesn’t want any farther escalation of war in Ukraine. Everybody understands: if USA start supplying Ukraine with weapons, the war can break out of Ukrainian borders and spread to EU very quickly.

Munich Security Conference. EU leaders did not support Obama’s administration decision to supply Ukraine with more weapons. In spite of Biden’s and McCain’s efforts everybody was applauding Merkel, when she made it clear: she was against supplying Ukraine with more weapons. Poroshenko obviously did not feel comfortable.

MUNICH (Reuters) - German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday that sending weapons to help the Ukrainian government fight pro-Russian separatists would not help bring about a solution to the crisis.

"I understand the debate but I believe that more weapons will not lead to the progress Ukraine needs. I really doubt that," she told the Munich Security Conference after presenting a Franco-German peace initiative to Moscow on Friday."If it is true that it cannot be solved militarily, then I think we should focus our efforts on the other things. There is already a large number of weapons in the region and I don't see that this has made a military solution more likely."
Sending weapons to Ukraine won t help Merkel says - Yahoo News

2. Past experience shows: Europe and USA start noticing the deaths of civilians and start talking about peace only when Ukrainian troops are close to defeat. Last August thousands Ukrainian troops were trapped in 2 pockets and the West rushed to insist on a ceasefire. A week ago about 8 thousand of Ukrainian troops have been trapped in Debaltsevo pocket and we see Merkel and Hollande urgently arriving to Moscow for negotiations.



3. IMF has loaned billions to Ukraine. If Ukraine splits, who will pay their money back? That’s why Europe is concerned so much about territorial integrity of Ukraine. Remember, 25 years ago Germany was so happy when its Western and Eastern parts reunited, why are they doing their best to prevent Eastern Ukraine (historical Russian lands, where mainly ethnic Russians live) to reunite with Russia? Why was there no war when Czechoslovakia split into several different countries?

 

[RandomVariable]

Putin to Merkel "no peace until I get my landbridge to Crimea"

That would make sense for Russia strategically but, wow, that is a lot of territory. If Russia ends up fighting its way to Crimea Melitopol would be pretty much annihilated. WW II all over again.

 

[RandomVariable]

This might get this moved to global topics but that is what it is becoming. Putin is in Egypt for a couple days. First time a Russian president has been there in 10 years. The fact that Putin is in Egypt on Monday and Tuesday and has the Normandy Quartet meeting Wednesday might just be more than coincidence. Egypt ready to crack as the seams with unrest. The Muslim Brotherhood being the main heat under the pressure cooker. One of the items on Putin and Sisi's agenda is taking oil off the dollar. That is a declaration of war with the U.S., literally. Looks like Putin is absolutely going for that land bridge and I do not see how Merkel can work that out. Well, the world used to be such a nice place, 6,000 years ago.

 

[RandomVariable]

quorthon going to flame me for hijacking his thread but this is info on Putin's visit to Egypt.

Kalashnikov diplomacy Putin offers unusual gift on Egypt visit to boost trade ties euronews world news
Day two of President Putin’s visit to Egypt continued with as much fanfare on Tuesday, as President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi rolled out more red carpet in Cairo.

The pair are expected to discuss boosting trade ties and possibly dumping the US dollar, switching to their national currencies for bilateral trade.

One of the biggest deals on the table is a multi-billion euro arms deal.

Russia is reportedly seeking to increase sales of arms to Cairo, following the US decision to halt some weapons deliveries to Egypt following the violent crackdown on supporters of former leader Morsi in 2013.

The visit is a clear signal of defiance against the US as Russia suffers under Western sanctions over Moscow’s alleged involvement in the crisis in Ukraine.

Never one to be outdone in the gift department, Putin offered al-Sisi a Kalashnikov, possibly another unorthodox diplomatic sign that Russia won’t let its foreign policy be dictated by others.

Of course, the web had a lot to say about said gift.

 

[Sonc]

I liked what said Stelkov "US uses Ukraine. But not as a sword. Sword - a reusable tool. US uses Ukraine as a condom."

 

[LastProphet]

Lukashenko, Putin: Two of the agents at an all illuminati table "negotiating" again a Minsk "ceasefire"
Lukashenko openly states that "Crimea is part of the Ukraine".
As for "Putin":
What is your excuse to fail to state the facts about "Putin" and the rest of the traitors of the russian gov?
Forget about what "Putin" says and look at what "Putin" DOES:

Notes
A picture worth 1000 words: Lukashencko "Crimea is Ukraine" sounds like music for "Putin"'s ears:
Europe s outcast Belarus unlikely star of Ukraine talks - Yahoo News

Alexander Lukashenko also sternly warned Moscow that his nation of 10 million will never be part of the "Russian world,"
Lukashenko said he wants to normalize ties with Western nations and issued a clear warning to Moscow that it shouldn't expect Belarus to follow suit in defying the West.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/01/29/world/europe/ap-eu-belarus-lukashenko.html

Lukashenko has been noted for making controversial statements. He has been accused of making a remark in 1995 which praised Adolf Hitler:
"the history of Germany is a copy of the history of Belarus. Germany was raised from ruins thanks to firm authority and not everything connected with that well-known figure Hitler was bad.
German order evolved over the centuries and attained its peak under Hitler."
In October 2007 Lukashenko was accused of making anti-Semitic and anti-Israel comments.
Addressing the "miserable state of the city of Babruysk" on a live broadcast on state radio, he stated:
"This is a Jewish city, and the Jews are not concerned for the place they live in. They have turned Babruysk into a pigsty.
Look at Israel— I was there and saw it myself ... I call on Jews who have money to come back to Babruysk."
Sergei Rychenko, the press secretary at the Belarusian Embassy in Tel Aviv, said parts of Lukashenko's comments were mistranslated.

BASICS
Recognize impostor Putin by his deeds:
Vladimir Putin and family murdered and replaced by impostors Recognize traitor impersonating murdered Putin by his deeds

The ultimate episode of "all illuminati table negotiating an halt to the war" was staged in 1918 ay Verailles, packaged as "end of the war".
History of End Times 1918 1945 2004 NOW what did do the illuminati control FOUR Key dates of Illuminati End Times

Blog
Illuminati Theater Lukashenko Putint all illuminati Minsk table ceasefire

 

[Sonc]

Russian humor

Poroshenko asked:
- Why do you not are fighting with the Crimea?
Only shouts "Crimea =Ukraine!"
He says:
- Because Russian troops are there!
- So you'll say that in the Donbass, too Russian troops, but you are fighting!
Poroshenko:
- ...So... what sho Donbas Russian troops, is are we
talking! And in the Crimea, they are!

 

[RandomVariable]

They did it. A peace agreement was achieved. How anyone negotiates at this level for 17 hours is beyond me.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis Leaders agree peace roadmap
12 February 2015 Last updated at 08:58 ET

The latest agreement includes:

• Ceasefire to begin at 0001 local time on 15 February
• Heavy weapons to be pulled out from conflict zones, beginning on 17 February and completed in two weeks
• All prisoners to be released; amnesty for those involved in fighting
• Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory. Disarmament of all illegal groups
• Ukraine to allow resumption of normal life in rebel areas, by lifting restrictions
• Constitutional reform to enable decentralisation for rebel regions by the end of 2015
• Ukraine to control border with Russia if conditions met by the end of 2015

An elaboration of the key points: BBC News - Ukraine ceasefire New Minsk agreement key points
​

 

[RandomVariable]

Although it is still way too early to assess much to me it looks like whether or not this peace deal holds is on Ukrainian President Poroshenko. I think everyone kind of gave in more than they were willing to so that they did not walk away empty handed but were thinking to themselves, "This will never hold." Putin out of his turf so he is the most on edge. If Poroshenko looks like he is going to try to get a little more than the letter of the agreement, no matter what he thought when he signed it, Putin will ponce all over him. Some very good faith is going to have to be shown by Poroshenko. Putin did not want this deal anyway because he fully has the means to continue this war across all of Ukraine. Putin knows that and if Poroshenko tries to grab a little more than the agreement cities will burn. Although that kid with the bunny hat on the bus looks like she could use a little heat.

 

[RandomVariable]

This seems to sum up the situation well:

A ticking time bomb concealed in Ukraine apos s cease-fire - Chicago Tribune

...

Even if his (Poroshenko) country is still being violated, the Western leaders are willing to treat him as an ally.

Merkel said after the talks that she had "no illusions" and just a "glimmer of hope" that things will work out. It's true that any truce will be shaky. Fiercely patriotric Ukrainians who backed Poroshenko in recent elections, and especially the volunteer fighters in the east, are likely to consider it a betrayal of their efforts. The rebels and their Russian puppet- masters will still want territorial expansion and stronger guarantees that Ukraine will not become a full-blown member of Western alliances.

Still, if the artillery indeed falls silent late on Saturday night, Ukraine will finally get a chance to develop peacefully and to break with its post-Soviet habits of bad governance and endemic corruption. Putin will get some much- needed economic breathing space and a path toward restoring a workable relationship with at least some Western partners. And EU leaders will breathe a huge sigh of relief at having staved off interference by U.S. hawks, who have been insisting on arming Ukraine: There will, after all, be no major war on Europe's borders. These are all worthy achievements, and the participants in the talks should be congratulated for not quitting. Even if this particular truce doesn't hold, it's clear there is a strong will to look for a lasting solution.



_ Leonid Bershidsky, a Bloomberg View contributor, is a Berlin-based writer.​

 

[Stratford57]

They did it. A peace agreement was achieved. How anyone negotiates at this level for 17 hours is beyond me.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis Leaders agree peace roadmap
12 February 2015 Last updated at 08:58 ET

The latest agreement includes:

• Ceasefire to begin at 0001 local time on 15 February
• Heavy weapons to be pulled out from conflict zones, beginning on 17 February and completed in two weeks
• All prisoners to be released; amnesty for those involved in fighting
• Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory. Disarmament of all illegal groups
• Ukraine to allow resumption of normal life in rebel areas, by lifting restrictions
• Constitutional reform to enable decentralisation for rebel regions by the end of 2015
• Ukraine to control border with Russia if conditions met by the end of 2015

An elaboration of the key points: BBC News - Ukraine ceasefire New Minsk agreement key points
​

"Constitutional reform" in Ukraine sounds very untrustworthy. Since unconstitutional coup Ukrainian rulers don't care to observe even existing constitution, violating it every time they wanted.

Also the experience of previous "ceasefire" has shown: it only hurt rebels (and their civilians in Donbass, whom they are defending from official Kiev aggression), because rebels were the only ones who were trying to obey the ceasefire and Ukrainians never stopped shelling Donbass residential areas and bought them enough time to regroup.

To me all new agreements are basically in favor for current Ukrainian rulers, all of them should have been already judged as war criminals today (according to UN 50 thousands of Ukrainians are killed), if the world really cared about justice.

 

[RandomVariable]

They did it. A peace agreement was achieved. How anyone negotiates at this level for 17 hours is beyond me.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis Leaders agree peace roadmap
12 February 2015 Last updated at 08:58 ET

The latest agreement includes:

• Ceasefire to begin at 0001 local time on 15 February
• Heavy weapons to be pulled out from conflict zones, beginning on 17 February and completed in two weeks
• All prisoners to be released; amnesty for those involved in fighting
• Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory. Disarmament of all illegal groups
• Ukraine to allow resumption of normal life in rebel areas, by lifting restrictions
• Constitutional reform to enable decentralisation for rebel regions by the end of 2015
• Ukraine to control border with Russia if conditions met by the end of 2015

An elaboration of the key points: BBC News - Ukraine ceasefire New Minsk agreement key points
​

"Constitutional reform" in Ukraine sounds very untrustworthy. Since unconstitutional coup Ukrainian rulers don't care to observe even existing constitution, violating it every time they wanted.

Also the experience of previous "ceasefire" has shown: it only hurt rebels (and their civilians in Donbass), because rebels were the only ones who were trying to obey the ceasefire and Ukrainians never stopped shelling Donbass residential areas and bought them enough time to regroup.

To me all new agreements are basically in favor for current Ukrainian rulers, all of them should have been already judged as war criminals today (according to UN 50 thousands of Ukrainians are killed), if the world really cared about justice.

My guess is our CIA will incite the ultra-nationalist to break the agreement. The number one threat to the peace agreement is Western powers who want war. They will give Poroshenko an earful of how he is being wronged and can ultimately triumph, which he can't.

 

[RandomVariable]

Poroshenko would be insane to mess this up! IMF is offering his near bankrupt country a possibly $40 billion package over four years. Admittedly the IMF might be the last person someone wants to borrow money from but that is one sweet deal to someone who probably does not deserve it.
A peace deal for Ukraine Who won and lost in the Minsk agreement - The Globe and Mail

 

[RandomVariable]

I find a reference to Kerry and Poroshenko on only this one source.

“One of the most important conversations going on right now is probably between Secretary of State [John] Kerry, and Poroshenko,” Smith told Sputnik wondering what Kerry may promise Poroshenko and “depending on what it is, it could encourage the Poroshenko government in one direction or another.”

Read more: US May Disrupt Peace Efforts in Ukraine With Training Kiev Troops - Experts Sputnik International​

I do not know if this statement is what is assumed is happening or referring to a actual event. Either way to say that the U.S. will not try influence Poroshenko's actions one way or another would be incredibly naive. I really hope that Secretary Kerry is on the side of peace, which is in America's best interest. At least the majority of Americans anyway.

 

[RandomVariable]

Let the spin of the evil empire begin! Opinion in powerful circles in England seem really, really against peace in the Ukraine.
Cookies must be enabled. The Australian
Putin’s bodyguard of lies has overtaken Russia
Ben Macintyre. The Times. February 13, 2015 10:27AM

The regime itself adopts multiple disguises and shifting identities: democracy at one moment, but monarchy, oligarchy or totalitarian state the next. This is state-controlled, domestic maskirovka, a strange and effective confection of propaganda, disinformation and entertainment. As one Russian television celebrity observes, chillingly: “We all know there is no real politics ... politics has got to feel like a movie!”

The distinction between fiction and reality has been so muddled in Russia, Crimea and Ukraine, that many no longer know, or even care, where the dividing line lies.

Maskirovka has now become a central, unacknowledged principle of government, creating a regime in which propaganda masquerades as truth, dictatorship is masked as democracy, and ordinary Russians have been deluded into believing Putin’s version of events.

The bodyguard of lies is no longer defending the truth in Russia; instead, it has staged a coup.​

 

[RandomVariable]

This is the first piece of 'morning after' news I have found giving some status of the situation on the ground.
BBC News - Ukraine crisis News of peace deal reaches front line

From what know the first potential flash point is supposedly rebel troops have encircled the town of Debaltseve leaving the Ukrainian troops, about 8,000 to 10,000, little option but to surrender their weapons and leave. Fighting could break out to decide the matter which would all be within the limits of the peace agreement. It is just after five in the morning Ukraine time. Unfortunately it will be a few hours before I can catch up on events.