Hitler’s 1923 “Beer Hall Putsch” and Trump’s 2021 “Capitol Invasion” Compared

[Pete7469]

Total bullshit.

Everything that bed wetter posts pretty much is. I don't know why everyone hasn't ignored him yet. He will go away once they do.

 

[Pete7469]

In 1954 Puerto Rican nationalists stormed the capital building firing shots and wounding five U.S. Representatives. They were tried and convicted and sentenced to life but were pardoned by president Jimmie Carter.

History continues to repeat itself...

Elect democrooks, and violent criminal traitors go free, like Bill Ayers.


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[Tom Paine 1949]

The "Bonus Army" of about 43,000 WW1 Veterans invaded Washington in 1932 demanding compensation for their sacrifice in the World War. Ironically it was Douglas MacArthur who crushed the Veteran uprising with military weapons. FDR didn't notice it while he was campaigning.

Not sure of your point here but glad you brought up the violent U.S. Army attack on the Veteran’s “Bonus Army,” which was ordered by President Hoover and carried out viciously by Douglas MacArthur and George Patton. Even a young Dwight D. Eisenhower was involved — covering up for his then-superior General MacArthur, who apparently (and typically) exceeded Hoover’s orders.

With “Hooverville” shantytowns spread all over the nation, this attack by the Republican Administration on peacefully camping veterans and their families guaranteed Roosevelt an overwhelming 1932 victory. Roosevelt’s own policies during the election were not at all radical, but once elected he showed flexibility and initiative in dealing with the crisis on almost every level.

Thus the U.S. avoided the deep bitter polarizations that seized much of Europe and led to the Nazi takeover of Germany. The Bonus Army conflicts, like two violent 1934 citywide General Strikes in Toledo and Minneapolis (organized by industrial unions led by socialists) showed that serious class conflict threatened here as well as in Europe, despite Roosevelt’s presidency.

The WWI veterans and their families certainly got a rough deal when the Great Depression struck. There were no jobs, no social safety net and no “GI Bill” after WWI. The request for early payment of a piddling “military bonus” was reasonable but didn’t address the larger crisis in society.

The “Bonus” movement was unarmed, peaceful and NOT aimed at invading government buildings or taking power. It was non-partisan and remarkably integrated. Of course some ultra-conservatives argued it was “communist inspired.” The small socialist and communist parties certainly supported it. Roosevelt was smart enough to keep hands off and reap the benefits. He faced a smaller repeat Veteran’s march and camp-out in 1933 which he managed to end peacefully by offering the protesters New Deal government-created jobs. By June 1944 Roosevelt signed into law the G.I. Bill, which offered far more than was ever requested by the original Bonus Army marchers.

Roosevelt was a far-sighted capitalist politician able to see the necessity to use brand new government measures to unite the American people at a time of crisis and give them hope until the new war economy itself ended the depression. The country went into WWII far more united than would otherwise have been possible. At the end of the war the U.S. was economically and politically in a uniquely powerful position.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

While newspaper reporters produced almost daily dispatches on camp life, they largely missed the biggest story of all: in this Southern city, where schools, buses and movies remained segregated, Bonus Army blacks and whites were living, working, eating and playing together. Jim Banks, the grandson of a slave, looks back on the camp as “the first massive integrated effort that I could remember.” Roy Wilkins, the civil rights activist who in 1932 wrote about the camps for The Crisis, the NAACP monthly, noted that “there was one absentee [in the Bonus Army]: James Crow.”

But if the press ignored the integration phenomenon, it made much of a small Communist faction within the ranks of the veterans, giving credence to the official line that had been expressed by Theodore Joslin, who was President Hoover’s press secretary: “The marchers,” he asserted, “have rapidly turned from bonus seekers to communists or bums.”

Marching on History

 

[Quasar44]

Hitler’s armed “Beer Hall Putsch” in 1923 was in some ways just as shambolic as Trump’s failed Jan. 6th attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power. Hitler’s coup attempt failed to take any government buildings in Munich, let alone follow up with a march on Berlin to seize the German central government.

The situations in Germany then and the U.S. today were VERY different. The U.S. has had over two centuries of republican constitutional government, which most Americans in both parties still vociferously claim to defend. Most of the violent Capitol protesters in D.C., even those with Confederate flags, body armor and pepper spray … were not fully developed ideological fascists.

Many of the invaders of the Capitol were just angry Trump fanatics who swallowed their leader’s “Big Lie” about the 2020 election. Trump was in fact U.S. “Commander in Chief” on Jan. 6th, though a lame duck. Hitler was only 34 years old, still an extremist nobody in 1923. Trump was seeking only to prevent the reading of the state-verified electoral votes so that the election would be thrown into a specially constituted House assembly — where he expected a Republican majority would allow him to stay in power “Constitutionally.”

Both Jan. 6th and Munich were high stakes gambles — “dress rehearsals” and “propaganda spectacles.” Hitler gained notoriety from his failed coup, used his trial to denounce the Weimar government of “Liberals, Jews and Communists,” and was jailed for less than a year (where he wrote Mein Kampf). Just ten years later he was put in power … Constitutionally. Trump hopes to be re-elected in 2024.

As crazy as Trump is, as crazy as many of his fanatic followers talk, Trump and they are only harbingers of things to come — they are certainly not now full-fledged fascists like Adolph Hitler was.

You are no different than the Nazis
Just another useful idiot

 

[whitehall]

With all the rhetoric I forgot the point. Do lefties really think the unarmed trespass incident at the Nation's Capital can be compared to Hitler's "Beer hall" shenanigans?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

With all the rhetoric I forgot the point. Do lefties really think the unarmed trespass incident at the Nation's Capital can be compared to Hitler's "Beer hall" shenanigans?

It’s clear to all but the blind and dumb that Jan. 6th was NOT merely an “unarmed trespass incident.”

You haven’t “forgot the point” but never got it in the first place.

The OP distinguishes the many ways in which attempts to subvert democratic & constitutional norms in D.C. in Jan. 2021 and Munich, November 1923 were very DIFFERENT, as well as ways in which they were of a kind.

The OP and discussion is about HISTORY and fruitfully clarifies in what ways our Republic & our politicians / parties and the German Weimar Republic & their politicians / parties were and are different — and yet face similar challenges.

To say “They can’t be compared” at all, when we are dealing with two powerful capitalist democratic republics in deep crisis and danger — :is just to be like the three monkeys who “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.”

Redirect Notice

images.app.goo.gl

 

[whitehall]

It’s clear to all but the blind and dumb that Jan. 6th was NOT merely an “unarmed trespass incident.”

You haven’t “forgot the point” but never got it in the first place.

The OP distinguishes the many ways in which attempts to subvert democratic & constitutional norms in D.C. in Jan. 2021 and Munich, November 1923 were very DIFFERENT, as well as ways in which they were of a kind.

The OP and discussion is about HISTORY and fruitfully clarifies in what ways our Republic & our politicians / parties and the German Weimar Republic & their politicians / parties were and are different — and yet face similar challenges.

To say “They can’t be compared” at all, when we are dealing with two powerful capitalist democratic republics in deep crisis and danger — :is just to be like the three monkeys who “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.”

Redirect Notice

images.app.goo.gl

You still want to pursue this inane rant? Maybe the truly "blind" forgot that the only injury was to an unarmed female Veteran who posed no threat to the Capital Police.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

There were plenty of “injuries” to police on Jan. 6th. Even at the Munich Putsch there were only four policemen who died, and fourteen “protesters” were killed by the police — who the Nazis of course claimed were “patriotic martyrs.”

The Nazis were also mostly veterans who wanted to … “Make Germany Great Again!” and oust the “traitorous Liberals and Communist government”!

The “threat” on Jan 6th was from the rioters violently invading the Capitol and to the elected Congressmen and the Vice President huddled inside. It was a “threat” also to the peaceful and legitimate transfer of power.

 

[whitehall]

There were plenty of “injuries” to police on Jan. 6th. Even at the Munich Putsch there were only four policemen who died, and fourteen “protesters” were killed by the police — who the Nazis of course claimed were “patriotic martyrs.” They were also mostly “veterans.”

The “threat” on Jan 6th was from the rioters violently invading the Capitol and to the elected Congressmen and the Vice President huddled inside. It was a “threat” also to the peaceful and legitimate transfer of power.

Huddled? Nobody was "huddled" except mom and pop trespassers who "might", I say it again "might" have been encouraged by unnamed activists who might have been FBI informants. It's so freaking ludicrous to consider the unarmed mom and pop Jan 6 demonstrators to be a threat to national security when history tells us that it was mostly left wing assassins who murdered or attempted to murder congressional members and presidents.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

History is objective. The “Bonus Army” goes down in history as a band of sympathetic WWI veterans who protested peacefully and were dispersed by the U.S. state violently.

The Jan. 6th Trump rioters (not those at the White House “Ellipse” but those who fought their way into the Capitol) go down as what they were — violent invaders waving Trump banners and Confederate flags, chanting “Hang Mike Pence” — a pathetic part of Trump’s conspiracy to stop the reading of the official state-certified Electoral ballots, to keep himself in power illegally.

 

[whitehall]

History is objective. The “Bonus Army” goes down in history as a band of sympathetic WWI veterans who protested peacefully and were dispersed by the U.S. state violently.

The Jan. 6th Trump rioters (not those at the White House “Ellipse” but those who fought their way into the Capitol) go down as what they were — violent invaders waving Trump banners and Confederate flags, chanting “Hang Mike Pence” — a pathetic part of Trump’s conspiracy to stop the reading of the official state-certified Electoral ballots, to keep himself in power illegally.

It seems that unarmed demonstrators might have been invited into the Capital by FBI informants who have been identified but not arrested. If it was a genuine coup and an effort to overthrow the government, wouldn't you think the army would have picked better soldiers than a pretend Indian shaman in full dress and mom and pop demonstrators, one of which had breast cancer? Ironically the only casualty was a unarmed (white) female U.S. Military Veteran who posed no threat. If it was a historic attempt to overthrow the government it was a piss poor one.

 

[Stryder50]

It seems that unarmed demonstrators might have been invited into the Capital by FBI informants who have been identified but not arrested. If it was a genuine coup and an effort to overthrow the government, wouldn't you think the army would have picked better soldiers than a pretend Indian shaman in full dress and mom and pop demonstrators, one of which had breast cancer? Ironically the only casualty was a unarmed (white) female U.S. Military Veteran who posed no threat. If it was a historic attempt to overthrow the government it was a piss poor one.

Exactly!
OP is grasping at straws.
Notice how no comment about the insurrections of Summer 2020 by Leftist of AntiFa, BLM, etc.

 

[jasonnfree]

Exactly!
OP is grasping at straws.
Notice how no comment about the insurrections of Summer 2020 by Leftist of AntiFa, BLM, etc.

The big difference is that Antifa are civilians. They never took an oath of office like Trump did. Below is the oath he took although he obviously never abided by it.
Article II, Section 1, Clause 8:

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:–I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Exactly!
OP is grasping at straws.
Notice how no comment about the insurrections of Summer 2020 by Leftist of AntiFa, BLM, etc.

None of these ninnies had even HEARD of the beer hall putsch until their masters used it as a comparison for propaganda purposes.

 

[Stryder50]

The big difference is that Antifa are civilians. They never took an oath of office like Trump did. Below is the oath he took although he obviously never abided by it.
Article II, Section 1, Clause 8:

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:–I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

If they were born here, they've taken the implied oath which naturalized citizens take when they become citizens. Which is very close to the POTUS one.

However, it's disputed if all AntiFa were civilians, especially of the USA. But then, except for the FBI and other Fed. plants, the Jan 6,2021 crowd was also "civilians".

Meanwhile your blatant TDS is showing. Trump has done more as POTUS and acted more presidential than our recent and current Democrat imposters.

BTW, no need to cite the Constitution to me. I'll wager I know it better than you do.

 

[jasonnfree]

We have democrats inciting ACTUAL race riots Vis-a-Vis the BLM in 2020, Democrats stood by and did nothing to stop or they actually SUPPORTED race riots. Sounds like the fucking KRISTALNACT. Democrats ACTUALY did this. And then these same Soros/Blackwater funded weirdness, these same foreign funded weirdo DEMOCRATS have the nerve to impeach TRUMP and hold hearings against against a president without any actual facts, and this "Jan 6th hearing" is three times these scoundrels have done this. Time to investigate who is funding the democrats. Time to put democrats under a microscope.

BLM are individual citizens. Many times they are right in what they do and sometimes they may get out of hand. Main point is they are citizens who took no oath of allegiance to our country. Trump, on the other hand, has done exactly that. He tried to bring down our country on January 6th. It was planned through and through. And main point is Trump did take an allegiance to this country and he totally went against that oath. How any one can still be on his side and want him to be President again is beyond belief.

 

[westwall]

I can almost see you spitting in frustration. Your ignorance of this period and of what “Bolshevism” was (and is) is obvious.

To call Biden’s utterly disorganized corporate-dominated Democrats “Bolshevik” and “Communist” is another ridiculous “Big Lie” — just Trump cultist / John Birch Society ultra-partisan Republican bullshit.

On another day you or your colleagues might call the Democratic Party “social-democratic” … as a criticism or an insult. But today according to you they are “Bolshevik” & “Communist”! Whatever works, eh?

No, we are laughing at your infantile attempt to deflect away from your demofascists and their attempt to destroy this country.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

No, we are laughing at your infantile attempt to deflect away from your demofascists and their attempt to destroy this country.

You prove my point that you have zero historical understanding of what terms like communist, socialist, social democracy, traditional liberalism, right or left authoritarianism or fascism really mean.

I remarked to a similar hysterical attack on Liberal Democrats in comment #78:

To call Biden’s … corporate-dominated Democrats “Bolshevik” and “Communist” is another ridiculous “Big Lie” — just Trump cultist / John Birch Society ultra-partisan Republican bullshit.

On another day you or your colleagues might call the Democratic Party “social-democratic” … as a criticism or an insult. But today according to you they are “Bolshevik” & “Communist”! Whatever works, eh?

… and sure enough here you are, now describing the Democratic Party as “fascist,” or to be more partisan specific … “demofascist.”

As I said, “Whatever works, eh”?

***

Note:

In fact both major parties of American capitalism can act in terrible ways, and do so fairly regularly. Especially from the point of view of foreign victims of American invasions, there may seem precious little difference between a Republican or Democratic or a fascist bomb falling on their heads, even if Americans argue as they often have wrongly that they were bombing or invading for “freedom” and “democracy”!

But that doesn’t change the nature of the two capitalist parties into “fascist” parties in fact, anymore than the prosecutions of Donald Trump or his attempts to stay in power illegally after he lost the election make either party … “fascist.”

 

[Arlette]

Trump is very hitlerish