Hitler’s 1923 “Beer Hall Putsch” and Trump’s 2021 “Capitol Invasion” Compared

[Oddball]

Yes, your individual wants and desires don't come before that of the society, do you understand that??


You are the same idots who talk about "individual freedoms and liberties" while wanting to criminalize gay and trans people..shut yo goofy ass up...

But....when an election of those voting in the act of the greater good ran counter to the whims and desires of your God King -- you morons decided to try to over throw the election....so yes, WE KNOW YOU HATE SOCIETY


This is why Conservatives hate everything that was intended to benefit the greater good or SOCIETY -- especially when it doesn't benefit them personally....

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hitler’s armed “Beer Hall Putsch” in 1923 was in some ways just as shambolic as Trump’s failed Jan. 6th attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power. Hitler’s coup attempt failed to take any government buildings in Munich, let alone follow up with a march on Berlin to seize the German central government.

The situations in Germany then and the U.S. today were VERY different. The U.S. has had over two centuries of republican constitutional government, which most Americans in both parties still vociferously claim to defend. Most of the violent Capitol protesters in D.C., even those with Confederate flags, body armor and pepper spray … were not fully developed ideological fascists.

Many of the invaders of the Capitol were just angry Trump fanatics who swallowed their leader’s “Big Lie” about the 2020 election. Trump was in fact U.S. “Commander in Chief” on Jan. 6th, though a lame duck. Hitler was only 34 years old, still an extremist nobody in 1923. Trump was seeking only to prevent the reading of the state-verified electoral votes so that the election would be thrown into a specially constituted House assembly — where he expected a Republican majority would allow him to stay in power “Constitutionally.”

Both Jan. 6th and Munich were high stakes gambles — “dress rehearsals” and “propaganda spectacles.” Hitler gained notoriety from his failed coup, used his trial to denounce the Weimar government of “Liberals, Jews and Communists,” and was jailed for less than a year (where he wrote Mein Kampf). Just ten years later he was put in power … Constitutionally. Trump hopes to be re-elected in 2024.

As crazy as Trump is, as crazy as many of his fanatic followers talk, Trump and they are only harbingers of things to come — they are certainly not now full-fledged fascists like Adolph Hitler was.

What a CFI where C is for complete and I for idiot

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Any Vice President of the Senate can require an audit of a contested election.

If there is as much hard evidence in 2024 that the Republicans used the scam of fradulent mail in and harvested ballots counted by Republicans in Republican controlled swing districts as we had in 2020 with the Democrats then an audit would certainly be needed.

2,000 Mules

 

[theHawk]

I am not echoing Trump supporters who use words like “Communist” and “Nazi” almost indiscriminately to describe … “Demoncrats.”

I am asking people here to carefully analyze the differences between Trump / Giuliani’s rightwing populist Jan. 20, 2021 “Trial by Battle” in D.C. and Hitler’s attempt to seize power in his 1923 “Beer Hall Putsch.”

Earlier in another thread I tried to lay out the broader situation, which I think at least some Trump supporters will in part agree with:

Sure thing bub. Just point out when President Trump ever joined the masses at J6 at the Capitol, jumped on a table, shot a gun in the air and demanded all of Congress follow him, at gunpoint. Because that is literally what Hitler did.

 

[Correll]

Sure thing bub. Just point out when President Trump ever joined the masses at J6 at the Capitol, jumped on a table, shot a gun in the air and demanded all of Congress follow him, at gunpoint. Because that is literally what Hitler did.

It's looking like the "differences" are vast and many.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Besides pathetic insults — or pointing to obvious differences I’ve already acknowledged — so far nobody has spoken to the real similarities and differences of these century-apart challenges to constitutional republican government & democratic norms.

The Weimar Constitution and German “liberal democracy” were attacked not only by Hitler, of course, but also by the then large Communist Party of Germany, which also discredited itself by following every twist and turn of Soviet foreign policy. Most Westerners only recall the Hitler-Stalin Pact of 1939, but that was much later after Hitler was firmly in power and after the Munich Pact.

A more appropriate understanding of the “contribution” of communists to the Nazi takeover in Germany would be discussion of “3rd Period” (1928-1933) ultra left Comintern policy followed by the German CP … which led it to refuse to defend social democrats, democratic socialists and liberal constitutionalists against fascism.

During the “Third Period” — when Hitler was just coming to power —prominent leaders of the Stalinist CP actually assumed Hitler was a passing phenomenon, that the Social Democrats were the “main enemy,” and thought “After Hitler, it will be our turn.” They regretted this foolishness after Hitler came to power and destroyed them completely.

Early on the CP also tried to compete with the Nazis, who much more effectively appealed to powerful nationalist cultural currents in Germany that opposed the French occupation of the Ruhr, and the payment to England and France of reparations for starting WWI. This objective situation made the appeal of fascism harder to deal with for liberal constitutionalists as well.

In short, the CP abandoned an “Enlightened” anti-imperialist and internationalist policy. Of course it is a moot question if it would have made much difference in stopping fascism even had they a radical but rational “democratic socialist” character.

Cursing the chauvinist betrayals of the Social Democratic Party and “Liberals” during WWI, the CP claimed to stand for “working-class revolutionary intransigence” against finance capitalism, and against “bourgeois liberalism,” but of course they were in fact only making the job of the Nazis easier.

The Democratic Party today can not be compared to the Communists of those times. Rather the Democrats are properly compared to the Liberal, or Social Democratic parties of the time, parties that were destroyed by Hitler along with the Weimar Republic and Weimar Constitution.

 

[westwall]

Besides pathetic insults, so far nobody has spoken to the similarities or differences in these century apart challenges to constitutional republican government & democratic norms.

The Weimar Constitution and German “liberal democracy” were attacked not only by Hitler, of course, but also by the then large Communist Party of Germany, which also discredited itself by following every twist and turn of Soviet foreign policy. Most Westerners only recall the Hitler-Stalin Pact of 1939, but that was much later after Hitler was firmly in power and after the Munich Pact.

A more appropriate understanding of the “contribution” of communists to the Nazi takeover in Germany would be discussion of the “3rd Period” ultra left Comintern instructions to the CP which led it to refuse to defend social democrats and democratic socialists and liberal constitutionalists.

During the “Third Period” — when Hitler was just coming to power —prominent leaders of the Stalinist CP actually assumed Hitler was a passing phenomenon, and thought “After Hitler, it will be our turn.” They regretted this foolishness after Hitler came to power and destroyed them completely.

Early on the CP also tried to compete with the Nazis, who much more effectively appealed to powerful nationalist cultural currents in Germany that opposed the French occupation of the Ruhr, and the payment to England and France of reparations for starting WWI.

In short, the CP abandoned an “Enlightened” anti-imperialist and internationalist policy. Of course it is a moot question if it would have made much difference in stopping fascism even had they a radical but rational “democratic socialist” character.

Cursing the chauvinist betrayals of the Social Democratic parties and “Liberals” during WWI, the CP claimed to stand for “working-class revolutionary intransigence” against finance capitalism, and against “bourgeois liberalism,” but of course they were in fact only making the job of the Nazis easier.

The Democratic Party today can not be compared to the Communists of those times. Rather the Democrats are properly compared to the Liberal, or Social Democratic parties of the time, parties that were destroyed by Hitler along with the Weimar Republic and Weimar Constitution.

Sure the democrat Party can. They want to disarm the population, and limit free speech. Both tenets of fascism.

You aren't very well educated are you.

 

[Correll]

Besides pathetic insults — or pointing to obvious differences I’ve already acknowledged — so far nobody has spoken to the real similarities and differences of these century-apart challenges to constitutional republican government & democratic norms.

The Weimar Constitution and German “liberal democracy” were attacked not only by Hitler, of course, but also by the then large Communist Party of Germany, which also discredited itself by following every twist and turn of Soviet foreign policy. Most Westerners only recall the Hitler-Stalin Pact of 1939, but that was much later after Hitler was firmly in power and after the Munich Pact.

A more appropriate understanding of the “contribution” of communists to the Nazi takeover in Germany would be discussion of “3rd Period” (1928-1933) ultra left Comintern policy followed by the German CP … which led it to refuse to defend social democrats and democratic socialists and liberal constitutionalists against fascism.

During the “Third Period” — when Hitler was just coming to power —prominent leaders of the Stalinist CP actually assumed Hitler was a passing phenomenon, hat the Social Democrats were rhe “main enemy,” and thought “After Hitler, it will be our turn.” They regretted this foolishness after Hitler came to power and destroyed them completely.

Early on the CP also tried to compete with the Nazis, who much more effectively appealed to powerful nationalist cultural currents in Germany that opposed the French occupation of the Ruhr, and the payment to England and France of reparations for starting WWI.

In short, the CP abandoned an “Enlightened” anti-imperialist and internationalist policy. Of course it is a moot question if it would have made much difference in stopping fascism even had they a radical but rational “democratic socialist” character.

Cursing the chauvinist betrayals of the Social Democratic parties and “Liberals” during WWI, the CP claimed to stand for “working-class revolutionary intransigence” against finance capitalism, and against “bourgeois liberalism,” but of course they were in fact only making the job of the Nazis easier.

The Democratic Party today can not be compared to the Communists of those times. Rather the Democrats are properly compared to the Liberal, or Social Democratic parties of the time, parties that were destroyed by Hitler along with the Weimar Republic and Weimar Constitution.

Yeah, none of that sounds anything like Trump. The GOP leadership certainly mobilized to fight TRump, not let him go, and Trump, at 76, is not in any postion to be around for long as party leader. His window for relevance is quickly closing.

 

[Correll]

The Democratic Party today can not be compared to the Communists of those times. Rather the Democrats are properly compared to the Liberal, or Social Democratic parties of the time, parties that were destroyed by Hitler along with the Weimar Republic and Weimar Constitution.

Really? The way they worked with the Antifa nad BLM violent mobs, suggests they can be compared to the nazis.

I found it especially chilling the way that they have bene directing police to support the attempts of the mobs to terrorize people, going so far as to arrest people that defend themselves or even run away (if in a vehicle).


If not following the exact tactics of the Brown Shirts, they certainly have the SPIRIT of the concept down nicely. And things are escalating nicely.

Give it a year or two and mob murders might be the new norm.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I would like to thank Tom for taking the time to detail the official Chicom view on the subject.

It's always nice to know what they are trying to manipulate us into thinking.


When my piece "the Reichstag fire and January 6th" is finished, should I post it here?

 

[Correll]

Sure the democrat Party can. They want to disarm the population, and limit free speech. Both tenets of fascism.

You aren't very well educated are you.

Mmm good points. Especially about the free speech.


You know, false science, was also a big Nazi thing. Let's face it, a movement that cannot longer define a woman, because of ideological reasons, or who argues that MEN don't have physical advantages in strength and speed against WOMEN,


is right up there with MASTER RACE nonsense.

 

[westwall]

Mmm good points. Especially about the free speech.


You know, false science, was also a big Nazi thing. Let's face it, a movement that cannot longer define a woman, because of ideological reasons, or who argues that MEN don't have physical advantages in strength and speed against WOMEN,


is right up there with MASTER RACE nonsense.

Yup. Any group that denies actual science in favor of politicized propaganda, and squashes free speech, is, by definition, fascist.

Interesting that our dear mr. paine is so uneducated that he doesn't understand that.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Yup. Any group that denies actual science in favor of politicized propaganda, and squashes free speech, is, by definition, fascist.

Interesting that our dear mr. paine is so uneducated that he doesn't understand that.

Free speech isn't high on the list of priorities for Chinese disinformation agents.

 

[Correll]

So, so far for the dem similar to nazis, we have,

1. mob violence
2. anti-free speech
3. anti-gun
4. fake science

What else?

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Any Vice President of the Senate can require an audit of a contested election.

If there is as much hard evidence in 2024 that the Republicans used the scam of fradulent mail in and harvested ballots counted by Republicans in Republican controlled swing districts as we had in 2020 with the Democrats then an audit would certainly be needed.

First of all, the election was not contested....Second, you morons wasn't asking VP to request an audit -- you wanted him to certify fake electors using forged certificates....the only ones engaged in fraud the whole time has been you fascists...


Furthermore, still to this day....you bitches have not proven a single case of widespread voter fraud anywhere...even the folks you thought were going to prove it -- admitted they had ZERO EVIDENCE...yall are clowns.....fascsists...and don't give a fuck about the will of the people -- just serving an orange moron who came to power due to racism.....no matter how much you lie and gaslight -- that fact will remain true...

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Sure....She could suspend the counting of electors of a few states, at their written request, so they could more carefully reassess the proper choosing and seating of their electors.


You do realize that is all Pence was asked to do, right?

No, Pence was asked to use fake electors ....why do you people lie so fucking much??

 

[Dogmaphobe]

So, so far for the dem similar to nazis, we have,

1. mob violence
2. anti-free speech
3. anti-gun
4. fake science

What else?

5 state controlled media
6 marriage of government and big business

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

She certainly has teh experience of a getting a job she did not deserve, by servicing an older man on her knees.

I get it ..most fragile insecure white men hate it when an accomplished black woman reaches levels he can't....
We can add that to your long list of shit you will forever stay mad about ...and the rest of could ZERO fucks about your tears..fuck you

 

[Correll]

I get it ..most fragile insecure white men hate it when an accomplished black woman reaches levels he can't....
We can add that to your long list of shit you will forever stay mad about ...and the rest of could ZERO fucks about your tears..fuck you

LOL. She's a whore. Just keeping it real.

 

[Correll]

5 state controlled media
6 marriage of government and big business

Oooh, good ones.

1. mob violence
2. anti-free speech
3. anti-gun
4. fake science

5 state controlled media
6 marriage of government and big business