Hitler Hated Communism, Socialist, Homosexuals, and Jews

[EriktheRed]

whatever gave you the idea that using the state to effectuate change has anything whatsoever to do with fascism?

Because some people don't realize that all governments - not just those they don't like - engage in what is usually derisively termed "social engineering".

I am certain that you meant to say: "Because some people don't realize that all FASCIST governments - not just those they don't like - engage in what is usually derisively termed "social engineering".


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No, I was right the first time, actually.

Jill's right, too:

and when the religious right tries to use the state to effectuate change?

btw, one comment by mussolini does not facism make...

you're pretty loose with the definitions ... because what you're claiming doesn't fit any definition I've ever heard

 

[Contumacious]

whatever gave you the idea that using the state to effectuate change has anything whatsoever to do with fascism?

"...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....


Benito Mussolini


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and when the religious right tries to use the state to effectuate change?

Fascism - by golly , you gottit.

If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic.

.

 

[paperview]

"...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....


Benito Mussolini


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and when the religious right tries to use the state to effectuate change?

Fascism - by golly , you gottit.

If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic.

.

So I guess we could call the Founding Fathers fascists then, by your definition.

 

[EriktheRed]

and when the religious right tries to use the state to effectuate change?

Fascism - by golly , you gottit.

If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic.

.

So I guess we could call the Founding Fathers fascists then, by your definition.

Or we could say the guys in the last admin were, too, for trying to create an "ownership society".

 

[jillian]

Fascism - by golly , you gottit.

If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic.

ummmm....

wrong answer....

government always changes. to think otherwise is simply silly. it changes based on the person for whom we vote. it changes based on changing times.

your definition is silly.

words have meaning. making it up as you go along like you are ....

not so much.

 

[jillian]

You attended a government owned and operated school , right?

at which level of my education? undergraduate or post graduate?

do you really think you can ignore accepted definitions and spew because you want to?

you're really funny.

 

[Contumacious]

Because some people don't realize that all governments - not just those they don't like - engage in what is usually derisively termed "social engineering".

I am certain that you meant to say: "Because some people don't realize that all FASCIST governments - not just those they don't like - engage in what is usually derisively termed "social engineering".


.

No, I was right the first time, actually.

Jill's right, too:

and when the religious right tries to use the state to effectuate change?

btw, one comment by mussolini does not facism make...

you're pretty loose with the definitions ... because what you're claiming doesn't fit any definition I've ever heard

No you were profoundly wrong. But I understand why you are confused. The reason that the democrats call the republicans fascist and vice versa is because THEY ARE BOTH FASCISTS. So the accusations are correct.


The Federal Reserve Board was created with BIPARTISAN SUPPORT - there has been many Republican administrations since FDR yet not one of them has tried to abolish the welfare/warfare state.


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[Contumacious]

and when the religious right tries to use the state to effectuate change?

Fascism - by golly , you gottit.

If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic.

.

So I guess we could call the Founding Fathers fascists then, by your definition.

Identify by article section and clause that Constitutional proviso which authorizes the bastards to bail out banks and/or otherwise manage the economy and operate a healthcare system.

,

 

[Contumacious]

Fascism - by golly , you gottit.

If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic.

.

So I guess we could call the Founding Fathers fascists then, by your definition.

Or we could say the guys in the last admin were, too, for trying to create an "ownership society".

Yes indeed they were.

 

[paperview]

Fascism - by golly , you gottit.

If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic.

.

So I guess we could call the Founding Fathers fascists then, by your definition.

Identify by article section and clause that Constitutional proviso which authorizes the bastards to bail out banks and/or otherwise manage the economy and operate a healthcare system.

,

That's a major goalpost move.

You said: "If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic."

My statement stands. By your measure, the Founders, and just about every administration since, is fascistic.

 

[AllieBaba]

whatever gave you the idea that using the state to effectuate change has anything whatsoever to do with fascism?

"...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....


Benito Mussolini


.

and when the religious right tries to use the state to effectuate change?

btw, one comment by mussolini does not facism make...

you're pretty loose with the definitions ... because what you're claiming doesn't fit any definition I've ever heard.

How about an example of that happening? One where the rights of people were permanently removed to facilitate it?

 

[Contumacious]

You attended a government owned and operated school , right?

at which level of my education? undergraduate or post graduate?

do you really think you can ignore accepted definitions and spew because you want to?

you're really funny.

From the New Mercantilism to Economic Fascism

"We have been on the road towards a planned economy since Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal in the 1930s. Convinced by the Great Depression that capitalism had failed, increasing numbers of American intellectuals became attracted to the idea of social engineering. They swarmed into the halls of power after Roosevelt's inauguration in 1933. Few advocated outright nationalization of private industry. Instead, their model was Mussolini's fascist Italy."


.

 

[Contumacious]

So I guess we could call the Founding Fathers fascists then, by your definition.

Identify by article section and clause that Constitutional proviso which authorizes the bastards to bail out banks and/or otherwise manage the economy and operate a healthcare system.

,

That's a major goalpost move.

You said: "If ANY entity uses the power of government to forcefully effectuate change that the government is being fascistic."

My statement stands. By your measure, the Founders, and just about every administration since, is fascistic.

HUH?


What kind of convoluted thinking is that?

The purpose of government is to protect the right to life, to property to liberty and to pursue happiness.

If you attempt to deprive me of any of those rights then the government has a duty to act - that is not fascism.

 

[paperview]

Was forced conscription, something we had for some 60 or so years (from our inception to about the mid 1840's) - part of your definition of fascistic?

 

[jillian]

HUH?


What kind of convoluted thinking is that?

The purpose of government is to protect the right to life, to property to liberty and to pursue happiness.

If you attempt to deprive me of any of those rights then the government has a duty to act - that is not fascism.

on what are you making that assessment? the purpose of government differs depending upon the political philosopher you agree with... Hobbes, Locke, DeToqueville... but all of those are just philosophical musings.

Our government has the power to do anything in furtherance of the public good. That's why the Constitution has a very broad general welfare clause

 

[AllieBaba]

No, our government does not have the power to do anything it thinks is for the public good. Our government has the power to defend us and protect our individual rights. Anything beyond that we have the right and the obligation to oppose.

You need to read the constitution again, alleged lawyer.

 

[Contumacious]

Was forced conscription, something we had for some 60 or so years (from our inception to about the mid 1840's) - part of your definition of fascistic?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Identify one single Founding Father who supported conscription. Show me where Patrick Henry stated "I do not mind being forced to fight for the federal government"


.

 

[AllieBaba]

"The sole purpose of government, as stated in the Declaration of Independence, is to secure our unalienable rights given us by our Creator. When Government grows beyond this scope, it is usurpation, and liberty is compromised."

Constitution Party Platform

"Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; — And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Section 9. The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear or pay Duties in another.

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State."
http://constitutionality.us/USConstitution.html#BOR

I don't see anything in there about doing whatever it chooses to to provide for the "welfare" of the American people. Providing for the general welfare is not taking power from the ppl and determining what is best for them without their consent.

 

[Contumacious]

HUH?


What kind of convoluted thinking is that?

The purpose of government is to protect the right to life, to property to liberty and to pursue happiness.

If you attempt to deprive me of any of those rights then the government has a duty to act - that is not fascism.

on what are you making that assessment? the purpose of government differs depending upon the political philosopher you agree with... Hobbes, Locke, DeToqueville... but all of those are just philosophical musings.

Our government has the power to do anything in furtherance of the public good. That's why the Constitution has a very broad general welfare clause

Really?


How did the Founding Fathers define "public good?

The Constitutions grants SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED POWERS - NONe of which is to secure the "public good"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


,

 

[jillian]

HUH?


What kind of convoluted thinking is that?

The purpose of government is to protect the right to life, to property to liberty and to pursue happiness.

If you attempt to deprive me of any of those rights then the government has a duty to act - that is not fascism.

on what are you making that assessment? the purpose of government differs depending upon the political philosopher you agree with... Hobbes, Locke, DeToqueville... but all of those are just philosophical musings.

Our government has the power to do anything in furtherance of the public good. That's why the Constitution has a very broad general welfare clause

Really?


How did the Founding Fathers define "public good?

The Constitutions grants SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED POWERS - NONe of which is to secure the "public good"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


,

They didn't define it... what falls within the general welfare claus is determined by the court if a case is brought before it.

you know, you could be interesting... if you didn't keep pulling stuff out of your butt.