Historical Parallels Between Poland and the Ukraine

Something happened in the Truman administration. Did the socialist democrats finally take over while Ike was poised to take Berlin? At any rate Eisenhower's forces were ordered (by Marshall?) to wait for the Russian hoard to take the city. Who gave the order? Churchill wasn't crazy about it so why did the Americans give away Poland and East Germany and create the Iron Curtain when they didn't have to? Truman wasn't the brightest bulb on the marquee and he relied on FDR's (faulty) policies including his friendship with Stalin.
What You Never Hear Will Always Hurt You

Truman, a hack small-town politician, was under orders from the military-industrial complex and the Statist fear-mongers to let the Soviet Union become a credible threat. That's also why he wouldn't let MacArthur cripple Chinese communism and liberate North Korea.

The heiristocracy, which hates and fears all other White people, also ordered dirty Harry to initiate the Civil Rights for the Uncivilized movement.
 
What’s that have to do with the motives between America and Communists?
Despite the Netrix's "Off-Topic" Nonsense, a Thread Is Not a Tightrope

Communists pick lowlife to get them in power and then betray them, which they deserve when they are lowlife and not the working class that the Old Left tried to use and abuse. In Vietnam, by taking on the lowlife South Vietnamese as allies, our race-confused ruling class saddled us working-class warriors with an impossible obstruction to victory.

In 1944, D-Day wasn't about liberating decadent and gutless France; that NPC entity was bypassed and ignored. The total focus was on crossing the Rhine and destroying Germany. Because American leaders had a more realistic attitude back then (and even in Korea, where the native soldiers were kept out of the action and the civilians were treated as obstructions), they won (Korea was a sure victory that Truman bungled). The only reason we lost in Vietnam was that we didn't use South Vietnam and its useless people merely as stepping stones to invade and destroy North Vietnam.
 
Despite the Netrix's "Off-Topic" Nonsense, a Thread Is Not a Tightrope

Communists pick lowlife to get them in power and then betray them, which they deserve when they are lowlife and not the working class that the Old Left tried to use and abuse. In Vietnam, by taking on the lowlife South Vietnamese as allies, our race-confused ruling class saddled us working-class warriors with an impossible obstruction to victory.

In 1944, D-Day wasn't about liberating decadent and gutless France; that NPC entity was bypassed and ignored. The total focus was on crossing the Rhine and destroying Germany. Because American leaders had a more realistic attitude back then (and even in Korea, where the native soldiers were kept out of the action and the civilians were treated as obstructions), they won (Korea was a sure victory that Truman bungled). The only reason we lost in Vietnam was that we didn't use South Vietnam and its useless people merely as stepping stones to invade and destroy North Vietnam.
Of course D-Day was all about bringing Germany to its knees. Just as Vietnam was about being the Nova to its knees. We just had a crappy Democrat POTUS in the 60’s that prevented it.
 
What You Never Hear Will Always Hurt You

Truman, a hack small-town politician, was under orders from the military-industrial complex and the Statist fear-mongers to let the Soviet Union become a credible threat. That's also why he wouldn't let MacArthur cripple Chinese communism and liberate North Korea.

The heiristocracy, which hates and fears all other White people, also ordered dirty Harry to initiate the Civil Rights for the Uncivilized movement.

WTF are you trying to say? That middle school education is failing you yet again!
 
It recently struck me that the current Russian incursion into the Ukraine has several historical parallels with the German attack on Poland in 1939.

1. Both Russia and Germany were faced with important parts of their territories (Sevastapol/Crimea and Danzig/Prussia) having become geographically separated from the rest of their countries. Both tried to negotiate with the newly recreated intervening countries (Ukraine and Poland) to reestablish physical links to these territories.

2. Outside Powers (U.S. and Great Britain) interfered with these negotiations by falsely assuring the intervening countries that they would be protected if they refused to negotiate. After attempts at negotiation failed, both Russia and Germany seized areas of these intervening countries in order to reestablish physical links with their severed territories.

3. After these incursions took place, Outside Powers officially declared their opposition but were not able to undertake any actions to repel the incursions. In the case of Poland, Great Britain's weak political leadership had already emboldened Germany to the extent that a second world war became inevitable.

4. In the case of the Ukraine, America's weak leadership has emboldened Russia in the same way. The American government has reduced itself to the position of a broadcaster at a sporting event; describing the action but having no control over the outcome.
Good night, all.
 
Actually it goes back to Germany taking the Rhineland two years prior and Hitler being emboldened by the Allies non response.

You mean "taking BACK the Rhineland" which the Allies had illegally taken in the Treaty of Versailles.
The Rhineland was ethnic German, so it was criminal for France to steal it.
 
Ever been to Iraq or Vietnam?
If you want to live under a totalitarian communist state rather than a Democracy, why aren’t you living under one like you think those people should?

Tell me how Vietnam was any different than France 1944.

If any country is a true democratic republic, it would then likely be socialist or communist.
When you do not have socialism or communism, then the government is always a dictatorship, like the US.

Vietnam was different than France in 1944 because France was invaded by Germans.
In Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh had just liberated the country from the French, was wildly popular, and would easily have won any elections, if we had not prevented elections.
 
I'll test whether or not you can demonstrate some sincerity, even though I'm pretty sure it's a waste of my time.

Authoritarian governments can work better for the good of the people, than a capitalist government that is corrupted by big business and no longer serves the interests of the people. I suggest a polite discussion on China's success.

If that turns out to be wasting words on you, then perhaps some others will read and have their interest stirred up?

I would suggest that capitalist governments are always the MOST authoritarian, since those with a monopoly on capital have total control of media, propaganda, police, troops, etc.
 
What’s that have to do with the motives between America and Communists?

The US motives were evil.
We brought the French back to Vietnam after WWII, and we should not have.
The Vietnamese deserved independence.
Then when the Vietnamese beat the French, we should have left them alone in their independence.
We were the ones who forced them into the communist camp, by supporting the dictator, Diem, who prevented elections that Ho Chi Minh would have easily won.
 
If Ukraine is to survive the current Russian invasion in any reasonable form, it should form an economic and military union with Poland.
 
If Ukraine is to survive the current Russian invasion in any reasonable form, it should form an economic and military union with Poland.

Just what the world needs, the restoration of the old evil and corrupt Polish dynasty?

Obviously Kyiv is totally corrupt, and likely should be utterly destroyed and something new started over.
What has to be undone is the US corruption and takeover of Kyiv since 2014.
 
Just what the world needs, the restoration of the old evil and corrupt Polish dynasty?

Obviously Kyiv is totally corrupt, and likely should be utterly destroyed and something new started over.
What has to be undone is the US corruption and takeover of Kyiv since 2014.
Based on your recent utterly ignorant and rubbish posts, I am not sure you are worth any kind of a reply. But okay, whatever.

Poland doesn't need any restoration of 'old dynasty'. It is republic now and isn't going to change its political basis.

Yes, Kyiv is totally corrupt. But no, it shouldn't be destroyed and the current government shouldn't be changed with Russian puppet regime.
 
I would suggest that capitalist governments are always the MOST authoritarian, since those with a monopoly on capital have total control of media, propaganda, police, troops, etc.
I think that it would vary from country to country. The US has become considerably more authoritarian since the beginning of the Trump regime and probably hasn't declined during the Biden regime. IMO.

There's definite indication of rights and freedoms of Americans being eliminated and especially so with the anti-abortion nonsense.

This is of course due to the Trump regime and any following regime's inability to stop the authoritarianism.
 
The historical parallels between 1939 Poland and 2022 Ukraine continue to grow. Just as the UK thought it could fight a proxy war to prevent Germany from recovering the western portion of Poland, so the US thinks it can fight a proxy war to prevent Russia from recovering the eastern portion of Ukraine. Both have developed into wider conflicts with unknown consequences.
 
Was America's Iraq wars and the Vietnam war any more justifiable than Hitlers'?

You answer me that without crossing your flippers behind your back and then I'll tell you why Putin's war is much more justifiable.
The US And several other Asian countries fought in Vietnam AT THE REQUEST of the Republic of Vietnam under the terms of the SEATO alliance. While it may not have been the best fought war the USA ever was involved in, the US involvement was legal and moral. South Vietnam was being invaded from another country which was also funding and supporting an insurgence in not only the Republic of Vietnam, but Cambodia, Laos and Thailand as well.

The US fought with Iraq, a country that had invaded and attempted to conquer first Iran, then Kuwait and been involved in at least two wars of extermination against Israel. Both of the wars with Iraq were the result of Saddam violating international law and multiple UN resolutions.

Hitler, on the other hand, invaded his neighbors in violation of international law and without cause.
 
Hitler, on the other hand, invaded his neighbors in violation of international law and without cause.
That may be a little too simplistic. Prior to WW2, Hitler's "invasions" were primarily the recovery of territory unjustly taken from Germany by the Treaty of Versailles. Even the western portion of Poland had been German territory. The flash point of the war was caused by Britain's reactive assurances of support to Poland to save face from PM Chamberlain's embarrassing diplomatic blunders. These assurances led Polish leaders to take an intransigent attitude towards Germany's demands for a land bridge to its detached territory in East Prussia. When Poland was invaded, its was Britain who declared war on Germany, and not vice versa.

This is not to say that war between Germany and the Soviet Union could have been avoided. This was clearly Hitler's plan for removing the Communist threat and creating "lebensraum" for a Greater Germany. But the invasion of France and other countries in the West was purely for the purpose of avoiding a two-front war during the intended invasion of the USSR. What if Britain (and France) had not declared war on Germany? During the two year period between the invasion of Poland and the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Western Democracies could have built up an unassailable arsenal of weaponry and manpower that would have precluded any thought (much less need) of invasion by Germany. In that event, Russia could have been pushed back behind the Urals where it belongs.
 
It recently struck me that the current Russian incursion into the Ukraine has several historical parallels with the German attack on Poland in 1939.

1. Both Russia and Germany were faced with important parts of their territories (Sevastapol/Crimea and Danzig/Prussia) having become geographically separated from the rest of their countries. Both tried to negotiate with the newly recreated intervening countries (Ukraine and Poland) to reestablish physical links to these territories.

2. Outside Powers (U.S. and Great Britain) interfered with these negotiations by falsely assuring the intervening countries that they would be protected if they refused to negotiate. After attempts at negotiation failed, both Russia and Germany seized areas of these intervening countries in order to reestablish physical links with their severed territories.

3. After these incursions took place, Outside Powers officially declared their opposition but were not able to undertake any actions to repel the incursions. In the case of Poland, Great Britain's weak political leadership had already emboldened Germany to the extent that a second world war became inevitable.

4. In the case of the Ukraine, America's weak leadership has emboldened Russia in the same way. The American government has reduced itself to the position of a broadcaster at a sporting event; describing the action but having no control over the outcome.
The connection I draw is to the USSR and Finland in the Winter War. A Russian-speaking empire based in Moscow invades a smaller neighbor with the intent to gobble up land. A combination of Soviet/Russian blunders and a surprisingly robust defense leaves Russia having a much harder time of it than they expected.

In the Winter War, they only fought for a few months before Finland tapped and they signed a treaty that granted a patch of their land to the Soviet Union. It came at a much higher price than they anticipated, though, and it showed a watching third party that Russia was not the combat animal they liked to portray themselves as. There is a good argument that Germany's decision to backbite and attack the USSR was because that even though they talked a big game, the Soviet Union was beatable when they put their cleats on.

It remains to be seen how closely this parallels the modern conflict.
 

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