High Noon

[Flopper]

I think the movie was overrated as a Great Western
Most characters were pretty cartoonish

Gary Cooper just played Gary Cooper

Gary Cooper was not the greatest of actors ditto John Wayne.

Both had great appeal to movie goers due to their screen persona as did Jimmy Stewart, James Dean, and Brando. This doesn't have much do with acting ability but rather the ability to present a consistent persona that most movie goers like. As much as I like Stewart, I don't consider him a great actor. In all his movies, he plays Jimmy Stewart. Instead of Stewart becoming his charter, the character becomes Stewart. Much the same thing can be said about John Wayne. He made over 75 movies and played John Wayne in almost everyone of them.

To me a great actor is a performer who can take on a wide variety of roles and create unique character in each of role. For example, Dustin Hoffman, in Rain Main, The Graduate, Midnight Cowboy, Tootsie, Little Big Man and Kramer vs Kramer. He brings his charters to life with their own unique personalities. So when you watch these movie you see Dorothy Michaels, "Ratso" Rizzo, Benjamin Braddock, or Raymond not Dustin Hoffman, an actor know for his irascible behavior on the set, indecisive, a perfectionist that is never satisfied with anything, and a supporter of radical causes.

Stewart and Wayne were comforts to viewers. That is part of the popularity package. I never thought of Hoffman as that good. Unique characters maybe. But forgettable ones also. For they certainly play John Wayne movies more then Hoffman movies a lot more on cable TV.

I always thought Hoffman was overrated. Especially in the 70s and 80s. It seemed he tried too hard and his acting was forced. Rain Man was like Forrest Gump.....A character any 12 year old could imitate

Hoffman was/is good, but we agree that he tried too hard. Reminds me of another acting story. According to hearsay, Olivier asked him why he went running so long every time before a take for a scene in "Marathon Man" (it took a great deal of shooting time while everyone else sat around waiting). Hoffman replied that it was to prepare and get really into the character of someone running for his life. Olivier looked at him, somewhat perplexed, and said, "Why don't you just act it?"

To me it is obvious that Dustin Hoffman is a fine actor and apparently many agree. He has 20 best actor award nominations and wins which include, two Academy Awards, six Golden Globe Awards (including the Cecil B. DeMille Award), four BAFTAs, three Drama Desk Awards, and two Emmy Awards.

Unfortunately, he has a reputation of being one of the hardest actors to work with in Hollywood. Many of his co-stars and directors refuse to work with him. His insistence on re-shooting scenes, last minute script changes, showing up late for shots, criticizing fellow actors, and contract disputes has resulted in only a few leading roles in major productions over the last 15 years.

I found the 1992 production of "Hero" which he starred very entertaining. It's seldom seen, probably because it was not a financial success. It is about a pickpocket and petty criminal who anonymously rescues survivors of an airplane crash.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I think the movie was overrated as a Great Western
Most characters were pretty cartoonish

Gary Cooper just played Gary Cooper

Gary Cooper was not the greatest of actors ditto John Wayne.

I liked John Wayne in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

I have heard of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" but never seen it and so I'll put it on my list of to watch. It obviously has an interesting cast with James Stewart, Edmond O'Brien, Vera Miles, Lee Marvin, Lee Van Cleef, John Carradine and Woody Strode.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance - Wikipedia

A western worth watching.

I bought the DVD off Amazon at a very good price, it is arriving Sunday and so hopefully will watch it Sunday night or Monday night.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I think the movie was overrated as a Great Western
Most characters were pretty cartoonish

Gary Cooper just played Gary Cooper

Gary Cooper was not the greatest of actors ditto John Wayne.

I liked John Wayne in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

I have heard of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" but never seen it and so I'll put it on my list of to watch. It obviously has an interesting cast with James Stewart, Edmond O'Brien, Vera Miles, Lee Marvin, Lee Van Cleef, John Carradine and Woody Strode.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance - Wikipedia

A western worth watching.

I bought the DVD off Amazon at a very good price, it is arriving Sunday and so hopefully will watch it Sunday night or Monday night.

I just noticed it not arriving Sunday but on Wednesday and so hopefully will watch it Wednesday night or Thursday night, this is the DVD:

 

[Picaro]

Stewart is the lead in it, really; Wayne's role is secondary. That's a surprise in itself. At least imo that's the case.

 

[there4eyeM]

Wayne was very comfortable and natural in front of the camera. Some actors have that charm without having much dynamic. That works for certain subjects. Nuanced roles require depth. If Hoffman is an example of overdoing some aspects, it must be admitted that 'method' students in America represent the greater part of good thespians. "East of Eden" or the like absolutely demand a quality of performance beyond merely 'natural' acting.
"High Noon", to return to specifics of the thread, only really developed Cooper and Kelly's characters, and even those not too much. The film depended upon stark contrasts of relative clichés; honest and sincere versus cowardice and the diabolic. Eastwood's series of beginning westerns were like that. That is what makes him even greater in making "Unforgiven", where there is much greater development and nuance. He himself is not a great actor and showed fine restraint in directing himself, dong an exemplary job in the film. Many others played excellently as well.

 

[sparky]

On TV last night. I must have seen this film 100 times. Its pretty downbeat stuff and most of the characters are worthless and cowardly.

John Wayne fell out with Gary Cooper over the final scene when Marshall Will Kane took off his badge and threw it in the dirt. Wayne felt it was anti American because the badge was a symbol of the US.

I think Fred Zinneman was on a blacklist at one time, a great director.

I dont see it as an American story as such. I could see this playing out in any part of the world. People generally want a quiet life and will always find a reason to not put themselves on offer.

Grace Kelly as well.

10/10

The casting of Grace Kelly very bizarro, Grace Kelly is so un-Western film material. This film "High Noon" was the first film that Lee Van Cleef was in.

Agree

Kelly is a High Society Girl

Love Lee Van Cleef, he is a scene stealer

~S~

 

[rightwinger]

Wayne was very comfortable and natural in front of the camera. Some actors have that charm without having much dynamic. That works for certain subjects. Nuanced roles require depth. If Hoffman is an example of overdoing some aspects, it must be admitted that 'method' students in America represent the greater part of good thespians. "East of Eden" or the like absolutely demand a quality of performance beyond merely 'natural' acting.
"High Noon", to return to specifics of the thread, only really developed Cooper and Kelly's characters, and even those not too much. The film depended upon stark contrasts of relative clichés; honest and sincere versus cowardice and the diabolic. Eastwood's series of beginning westerns were like that. That is what makes him even greater in making "Unforgiven", where there is much greater development and nuance. He himself is not a great actor and showed fine restraint in directing himself, dong an exemplary job in the film. Many others played excellently as well.

Eastwood developed as an actor. Initially, he was just Spaghetti Westerns and played the same character in Dirty Harry.

 

[Flopper]

Wayne was very comfortable and natural in front of the camera. Some actors have that charm without having much dynamic. That works for certain subjects. Nuanced roles require depth. If Hoffman is an example of overdoing some aspects, it must be admitted that 'method' students in America represent the greater part of good thespians. "East of Eden" or the like absolutely demand a quality of performance beyond merely 'natural' acting.
"High Noon", to return to specifics of the thread, only really developed Cooper and Kelly's characters, and even those not too much. The film depended upon stark contrasts of relative clichés; honest and sincere versus cowardice and the diabolic. Eastwood's series of beginning westerns were like that. That is what makes him even greater in making "Unforgiven", where there is much greater development and nuance. He himself is not a great actor and showed fine restraint in directing himself, dong an exemplary job in the film. Many others played excellently as well.

Are you discussing the 2000 remake of High Noon?

You make some very good points. Natural actors can be exceptionally good at their trade by selecting roles that fit their screen persona and developing that role in ways that fits their image. Good examples are Marlon Brando, Robert De Niro, Jimmy Stewart, and Denzel Washington. Other natural actors such as John Wayne develop a character which fits their own self image and plays that character over and over.

Wayne developed his talents in grade B westerns in the 1930's. He never took acting lessons. By the 40's he had his character down pat. So whether he was a Marine leading a charge on the Sands of Iwo Jima, or a town Marshall fighting bad guys on the street of Laredo, he was John Wayne, the hero, honest, strong, and respectful of women but with little respect or patient for the weak or cowardly.