Here's What's Wrong...

[Canon Shooter]

As someone who employs people, I like knowing that the people who work for me want to stay working for me. Salaries at my companies are considered generous compared to others. That's because it's better to pay someone well over a prolonged period of time than it is to keep having to retrain new people because employees keep leaving for a better paying gig.

When someone is hired by one of my companies, if the person has a college degree in the area in which he (or she) is being employed, that gets reflected in their pay. Someone who's hired working with electronics will get paid more if he has a college degree in, say, electronic engineering. If you get hired by me, you're going to make at least $23.85 an hour from the start, and that goes up after 90 days. After six months a person's record is reviewed and, if warranted, pay is increased again. As a company owner, I can see a definite value in a college degree. In lieu of a degree, if someone has some protracted experience in the field, that will also see the same result and pay will be affected similarly.

I came across as ad today that just makes me shake my head. A company is hiring for a position (what it is isn't really important). The requirements are not very different than you would find in many ads: "the successful candidate will have a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree and a minimum of four years experience" is pretty much how it read. I've seen that a lot.

The problem is that the employer is only offering a starting pay of $15. The high school drop out flipping burgers at Jiffy Chef is making that. This particular employer, though, wants a four year degree and an additional four years experience working in the field.

This is astounding to me. If I hire someone with a degree and four years experience, they're flirtin' with $30 an hour right from the start. I can't imagine telling someone with a college education and experience that he's only worth $15 an hour.

Everyone wants to talk about giving people a "living wage". Well, for someone who's college educated, with experience, $15 an hour isn't a living wage. Employers need to realize that...

 

[pknopp]

I've seen all sorts of places saying they can't get people to work. I generally note that I am retired but I would be happy to work some part time for $20 an hour. No one has taken me up on it. To me it is saying they don't really want workers all that bad.

I get called out quite regularly for not being willing to work for less than $20. I don't have to work at all but I am willing to help out if one makes it worth what I minimally consider what my time is worth.

 

[Canon Shooter]

I've seen all sorts of places saying they can't get people to work. I generally note that I am retired but I would be happy to work some part time for $20 an hour. No one has taken me up on it. To me it is saying they don't really want workers all that bad.

I get called out quite regularly for not being willing to work for less than $20. I don't have to work at all but I am willing to help out if one makes it worth what I minimally consider what my time is worth.

Exactly.

A buddy of mine runs a charter sight-seeing boat here. Every once in a while I'll crew for him if he's short handed. He pays me $25 an hour so, if I pull a full day, I can make $200-$300 a day. I don't necessarily need the money, but $300 for a day on the water is nothing to sneeze at, either...

 

[Disir]

It's not that nobody wants to work. It's that they don't want to pay. I'm semi looking for a job in other states.

 

[Canon Shooter]

It's not that nobody wants to work. It's that they don't want to pay. I'm semi looking for a job in other states.

It's a combination of the two...

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

As someone who employs people, I like knowing that the people who work for me want to stay working for me. Salaries at my companies are considered generous compared to others. That's because it's better to pay someone well over a prolonged period of time than it is to keep having to retrain new people because employees keep leaving for a better paying gig.

When someone is hired by one of my companies, if the person has a college degree in the area in which he (or she) is being employed, that gets reflected in their pay. Someone who's hired working with electronics will get paid more if he has a college degree in, say, electronic engineering. If you get hired by me, you're going to make at least $23.85 an hour from the start, and that goes up after 90 days. After six months a person's record is reviewed and, if warranted, pay is increased again. As a company owner, I can see a definite value in a college degree. In lieu of a degree, if someone has some protracted experience in the field, that will also see the same result and pay will be affected similarly.

I came across as ad today that just makes me shake my head. A company is hiring for a position (what it is isn't really important). The requirements are not very different than you would find in many ads: "the successful candidate will have a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree and a minimum of four years experience" is pretty much how it read. I've seen that a lot.

The problem is that the employer is only offering a starting pay of $15. The high school drop out flipping burgers at Jiffy Chef is making that. This particular employer, though, wants a four year degree and an additional four years experience working in the field.

This is astounding to me. If I hire someone with a degree and four years experience, they're flirtin' with $30 an hour right from the start. I can't imagine telling someone with a college education and experience that he's only worth $15 an hour.

Everyone wants to talk about giving people a "living wage". Well, for someone who's college educated, with experience, $15 an hour isn't a living wage. Employers need to realize that...

I don't know how anyone can live on $15/hr. After I retired from the military I wanted something low key, low stress, non governmental, but 'officey'. I have multiple degrees, and years of experience doing pretty much the same thing I applied for...$18/hr to start. I accepted because I can at this point in my life. However, I work with people where $18/hr is their only income stream.

 

[Disir]

It's a combination of the two...

I worked over 70 hours last week and 57 this week. I'm thinking it's pay.

 

[pknopp]

I don't know how anyone can live on $15/hr. After I retired from the military I wanted something low key, low stress, non governmental, but 'officey'. I have multiple degrees, and years of experience doing pretty much the same thing I applied for...$18/hr to start. I accepted because I can at this point in my life. However, I work with people where $18/hr is their only income stream.

To be fair it depends on where you live.

 

[Canon Shooter]

I worked over 70 hours last week and 57 this week. I'm thinking it's pay.

Your personal experience is anecdotal. I acknowledge, as shown in my OP, that pay is a problem.

But there are also people who think they should be paid far more than what the job is worth...

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

To be fair it depends on where you live.

Well, without disclosing too much. The cost of living here is near the lowest in the nation. I don't see how people can live on 18/hr, let alone 15/hr.

Especially using REAL inflation metrics. Which are hard to find because the government are lying criminals.

Alternate Inflation Charts

www.shadowstats.com

 

[Disir]

Your personal experience is anecdotal. I acknowledge, as shown in my OP, that pay is a problem.

But there are also people who think they should be paid far more than what the job is worth...

I know.....

There are a lot of people that don't want to work. I know this. There are a lot of people who want to get paid but can't deliver.

 

[Canon Shooter]

I know.....

There are a lot of people that don't want to work. I know this. There are a lot of people who want to get paid but can't deliver.

A friend of mine manages a liquor store. I think the pay there starts around $11 or $12 an hour. But, see, they actually want you to work for that money. Some of the people there think the should be paid just for showing up on time (which many of them have a problem doing). One of the women working there got a raise. She's a long time employee (more than five years), works probably more than anyone else, and does a stellar job. One of the other employees, who'd been there not quite nine months actually demanded that she get a raise, too, or she was "gonna' walk".

My friend held the door open for her...

 

[MarathonMike]

Everyone wants to talk about giving people a "living wage". Well, for someone who's college educated, with experience, $15 an hour isn't a living wage. Employers need to realize that...

Unless there is some other means of compensation like stock options or paid housing, $15 an hour for a Bachelor's and 4 years experience is an insult. McDonald's in paying 13.50 an hour in my city which is notorious for low wages.

 

[pknopp]

Well, without disclosing too much. The cost of living here is near the lowest in the nation. I don't see how people can live on 18/hr, let alone 15/hr.

Especially using REAL inflation metrics. Which are hard to find because the government are lying criminals.

View attachment 525557

Alternate Inflation Charts

www.shadowstats.com

I live in a low COL area also and I know quite a few people that live on that. They don't buy new cars and take cruises but they get by. The jobs not being to get people are paying $9-$10.

 

[pknopp]

A friend of mine manages a liquor store. I think the pay there starts around $11 or $12 an hour. But, see, they actually want you to work for that money. Some of the people there think the should be paid just for showing up on time (which many of them have a problem doing). One of the women working there got a raise. She's a long time employee (more than five years), works probably more than anyone else, and does a stellar job. One of the other employees, who'd been there not quite nine months actually demanded that she get a raise, too, or she was "gonna' walk".

My friend held the door open for her...

A manager should be paid more than $11-$12 an hour.

 

[Anathema]

When someone is hired by one of my companies, if the person has a college degree in the area in which he (or she) is being employed, that gets reflected in their pay. Someone who's hired working with electronics will get paid more if he has a college degree in, say, electronic engineering. If you get hired by me, you're going to make at least $23.85 an hour from the start, and that goes up after 90 days. After six months a person's record is reviewed and, if warranted, pay is increased again. As a company owner, I can see a definite value in a college degree. In lieu of a degree, if someone has some protracted experience in the field, that will also see the same result and pay will be affected similarly

Okay. Totally reasonable. Beyond reasonable so far as I’m concerned.

Now… when you find at 90 or 180 days that their college degree isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on and/or their work experience has done them no good, do you reduce their pay/benefits or fire them?

 

[pknopp]

Okay. Totally reasonable. Beyond reasonable so far as I’m concerned.

Now… when you find at 90 or 180 days that their college degree isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on and/or their work experience has done them no good, do you reduce their pay/benefits or fire them?

People get hired for a degree for more than what they learned getting it. It shows an ability to stick to something to accomplish your goals also.

 

[Anathema]

People get hired for a degree for more than what they learned getting it. It shows an ability to stick to something to accomplish your goals also.

Let me guess, you’re also under the delusion that college is for “finding yourself” rather than “career preparation “.

I find very few of the young/new Engineers I work with got anything useful out of their tie at college… they’re unable to do their job and they have even less understanding of how the Real World works.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Okay. Totally reasonable. Beyond reasonable so far as I’m concerned.

Now… when you find at 90 or 180 days that their college degree isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on and/or their work experience has done them no good, do you reduce their pay/benefits or fire them?

I've never been in that position.

I'm under no obligation to give someone a pay raise if their performance isn't what we think it should be. In such a case, it would likely be addressed at the 90-day or 180-day review...

 

[Magnus]

As someone who employs people, I like knowing that the people who work for me want to stay working for me. Salaries at my companies are considered generous compared to others. That's because it's better to pay someone well over a prolonged period of time than it is to keep having to retrain new people because employees keep leaving for a better paying gig.

When someone is hired by one of my companies, if the person has a college degree in the area in which he (or she) is being employed, that gets reflected in their pay. Someone who's hired working with electronics will get paid more if he has a college degree in, say, electronic engineering. If you get hired by me, you're going to make at least $23.85 an hour from the start, and that goes up after 90 days. After six months a person's record is reviewed and, if warranted, pay is increased again. As a company owner, I can see a definite value in a college degree. In lieu of a degree, if someone has some protracted experience in the field, that will also see the same result and pay will be affected similarly.

I came across as ad today that just makes me shake my head. A company is hiring for a position (what it is isn't really important). The requirements are not very different than you would find in many ads: "the successful candidate will have a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree and a minimum of four years experience" is pretty much how it read. I've seen that a lot.

The problem is that the employer is only offering a starting pay of $15. The high school drop out flipping burgers at Jiffy Chef is making that. This particular employer, though, wants a four year degree and an additional four years experience working in the field.

This is astounding to me. If I hire someone with a degree and four years experience, they're flirtin' with $30 an hour right from the start. I can't imagine telling someone with a college education and experience that he's only worth $15 an hour.

Everyone wants to talk about giving people a "living wage". Well, for someone who's college educated, with experience, $15 an hour isn't a living wage. Employers need to realize that...

Most job ads put out by large/mid corporations are usually a copy/paste. Meaning, HR gets notified that a certain dept needs so many engineers/techies, etc and the HR is now supposed to put out ads, interview, etc.

What does a typical HR dept do for highly skilled jobs (especially in the tech world where requirements change frequently)? Well, they just go and copy from some other job requirements filling in any blanks. Hence, the usual fillers like a 4-year degree with 5 years job experience, etc.

I have seen tech jobs where the technology may be only a couple of years old but the ad asks for the usual 5-7 years. It's the same thing with salaries. HR puts in the salary range as a guesstimate (usually low) because no one wants to get chewed out by their bosses for offering more money than they should.

Hence the advice to all job-seekers. Avoid going through HR (if possible) and interview directly with the dept hiring. Better chance of getting the job and the salary you are looking for.