Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)

[ScienceRocks]

Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)
If only the best qualified are allowed to immigrate to the US, then they will compete only for the best, highest paying jobs available. Leaving the menial jobs, the low paying jobs, the back breaking jobs, for the native born.

Is that really what we want?

How good are you at picking lettuce?

 

[Crixus]

Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)
If only the best qualified are allowed to immigrate to the US, then they will compete only for the best, highest paying jobs available. Leaving the menial jobs, the low paying jobs, the back breaking jobs, for the native born.

Is that really what we want?

How good are you at picking lettuce?

Oh, so you like slavery then?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)
If only the best qualified are allowed to immigrate to the US, then they will compete only for the best, highest paying jobs available. Leaving the menial jobs, the low paying jobs, the back breaking jobs, for the native born.

Is that really what we want?

How good are you at picking lettuce?

So immigrations goal is to import slaves .......

 

[blackhawk]

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

 

[irosie91]

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

flipping fry baskets and picking corn seems about equivalent to me. Good jobs for teenagers

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)
If only the best qualified are allowed to immigrate to the US, then they will compete only for the best, highest paying jobs available. Leaving the menial jobs, the low paying jobs, the back breaking jobs, for the native born.

Is that really what we want?

How good are you at picking lettuce?

Afraid that some foreigner might be willing to do that teaching, nursing, accountant, journalist, doctor, technician, information technician, lawyer, business management, etc,.. job for a lower wage?

They're just doing the jobs you're unwilling to do.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Kat]

For some reason there were several copies of this thread, and when I tried to delete it just made more. I think I have it back now. Sorry ScienceRocks


Carry on...

 

[Yarddog]

Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)
If only the best qualified are allowed to immigrate to the US, then they will compete only for the best, highest paying jobs available. Leaving the menial jobs, the low paying jobs, the back breaking jobs, for the native born.

Is that really what we want?

How good are you at picking lettuce?

Farm workers can still come here on temporary work visas, that way they don't need to be separated from their families and their money will go MUCH further back in their home. Hell, they are always sending it back via western union anyway. Perhaps that system can also be re-vamped so it is more convenient and organized for them, and maybe children of farm workers who have worked here 5 years or more can get special consideration for their kids in getting student visas later on.

What is wrong with bringing people here who know the language and are good at math? Those are the people who will actually be more likely to start their own auto repair shop or taqueria or some other type of business. Why must you assume immigrants just come here to take jobs and not create jobs? Why don't we invite people here who have money to invest in the system?

Another thing is, the more poor people we invite in en mass, who cannot speak English or have no skills, the harder it is for them to fit in, and their kids more likely to end up in a gang. Not always of course, and maybe not even at huge percentages, but definitely at higher percentages than children of highly educated parents.

There is something to be said for both arguments so maybe there is a compromise to be found. And something better than we have now

 

[9thIDdoc]

The idea is to accept people who can and will work for a living instead of draining working Americans of what they have worked for via welfare..
Those Americans with lower paying jobs need to earn a living at least as much as those with higher paying ones.
The availability of illegal aliens is in fact why some jobs pay as little as they do. Why pay more for labor than employers have to?

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

The real problem is that immigrants who get in on merit might not immediately go on welfare and food stamps, and, as a result, might not vote Democrat.

 

[Care4all]

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

so you are okay with putting the merit based foreign immigrants in the limited ''good jobs'' in America??

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)
If only the best qualified are allowed to immigrate to the US, then they will compete only for the best, highest paying jobs available. Leaving the menial jobs, the low paying jobs, the back breaking jobs, for the native born.

Is that really what we want?

How good are you at picking lettuce?

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

so you are okay with putting the merit based foreign immigrants in the limited ''good jobs'' in America??

Lol. I remember a lot of lefties telling me that I didn't like mass immigration because I was insecure about my abilities and scared that some foreigner was going to take my job, and telling me I had roughly the same reasoning regarding affirmative action (even though I'm a pacific islander and actually stand to benefit from that silly practice). I'm wondering, suddenly, if that accusation wasn't mostly just projection.

Anyway

Where you err in your reasoning is that you haven't considered that most of us who prefer merit based immigration also prefer tightly enforced immigration law coupled with limited numbers and targeted immigrants. Essentially, you take into account the applicant's probable field of vocation when deciding who to admit. If tech companies aren't hiring, you don't flood the market with coders. If there's a notable shortage in say, engineers (you know, like the one the pro-mass-immigration crowd was using as a flagship economic justification throughout most of the Obama years) during that same period, then you give greater weight to applicants in that vocation than you do to applicants whose vocations aren't in high demand.

Please refrain from using loose terminology to reduce your opponents' ideas to a single metric solution. This shit ain't rocket science to begin with, if it still seems like it needs to be further simplified, maybe it ain't the conversation for you.

 

[Care4all]

Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)
If only the best qualified are allowed to immigrate to the US, then they will compete only for the best, highest paying jobs available. Leaving the menial jobs, the low paying jobs, the back breaking jobs, for the native born.

Is that really what we want?

How good are you at picking lettuce?

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

so you are okay with putting the merit based foreign immigrants in the limited ''good jobs'' in America??

Lol. I remember a lot of lefties telling me that I didn't like mass immigration because I was insecure about my abilities and scared that some foreigner was going to take my job, and telling me I had roughly the same reasoning regarding affirmative action (even though I'm a pacific islander and actually stand to benefit from that silly practice). I'm wondering, suddenly, if that accusation wasn't mostly just projection.

Anyway

Where you err in your reasoning is that you haven't considered that most of us who prefer merit based immigration also prefer tightly enforced immigration law coupled with limited numbers and targeted immigrants. Essentially, you take into account the applicant's probable field of vocation when deciding who to admit. If tech companies aren't hiring, you don't flood the market with coders. If there's a notable shortage in say, engineers (you know, like the one the pro-mass-immigration crowd was using as a flagship economic justification throughout most of the Obama years) during that same period, then you give greater weight to applicants in that vocation than you do to applicants whose vocations aren't in high demand.

Please refrain from using loose terminology to reduce your opponents' ideas to a single metric solution. This shit ain't rocket science to begin with, if it still seems like it needs to be further simplified, maybe it ain't the conversation for you.

I think we need both, as Trump would call....the ones from Norway and the ones from Africa.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Here's the problem with merit based immigration (IMHO)
If only the best qualified are allowed to immigrate to the US, then they will compete only for the best, highest paying jobs available. Leaving the menial jobs, the low paying jobs, the back breaking jobs, for the native born.

Is that really what we want?

How good are you at picking lettuce?

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

so you are okay with putting the merit based foreign immigrants in the limited ''good jobs'' in America??

Lol. I remember a lot of lefties telling me that I didn't like mass immigration because I was insecure about my abilities and scared that some foreigner was going to take my job, and telling me I had roughly the same reasoning regarding affirmative action (even though I'm a pacific islander and actually stand to benefit from that silly practice). I'm wondering, suddenly, if that accusation wasn't mostly just projection.

Anyway

Where you err in your reasoning is that you haven't considered that most of us who prefer merit based immigration also prefer tightly enforced immigration law coupled with limited numbers and targeted immigrants. Essentially, you take into account the applicant's probable field of vocation when deciding who to admit. If tech companies aren't hiring, you don't flood the market with coders. If there's a notable shortage in say, engineers (you know, like the one the pro-mass-immigration crowd was using as a flagship economic justification throughout most of the Obama years) during that same period, then you give greater weight to applicants in that vocation than you do to applicants whose vocations aren't in high demand.

Please refrain from using loose terminology to reduce your opponents' ideas to a single metric solution. This shit ain't rocket science to begin with, if it still seems like it needs to be further simplified, maybe it ain't the conversation for you.

I think we need both, as Trump would call....the ones from Norway and the ones from Africa.

Yeah, there are valuable people in Africa who would make great additions to our nation, and I'm not just talking about Nigeria. In any large demographic you're bound to have individuals who stand out by any combination of metrics, and if you're truly looking for the absolute best people to conform to any given criteria, you take 'em from wherever you get 'em.

A true meritocratic approach obviously doesn't mean barring immigrants from specific places just because one deems those places to be shit holes.

 

[Crixus]

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

I remember picking Hutton weed out of corn and soy fields until my hands were all blisters and green. Americans will do these jobs. I would if that’s all there was and no wouldn’t even hate it.

 

[blackhawk]

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

so you are okay with putting the merit based foreign immigrants in the limited ''good jobs'' in America??

I will take that over a lotto based system any day of the week.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

My only concern is this -- do they want to become an American? Will they embrace American values and teach their children likewise, or will they remain separate, clinging to their culture and teaching their children that their culture is what matters?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

so you are okay with putting the merit based foreign immigrants in the limited ''good jobs'' in America??

You allow them in as necessity dictates.
You dont allow them to flood the country like barry did with the shithole immigrants.

 

[Care4all]

My only concern is this -- do they want to become an American? Will they embrace American values and teach their children likewise, or will they remain separate, clinging to their culture and teaching their children that their culture is what matters?

I am not trying to get all religious in this post, but your question lead me to remembering a passage I had read in the Gospel, where one of Jesus's apostles or followers asked him a question or made a statement about the woman who was washing His feet with her tears and her hair, and the Pharisees present sort of mocked him about who this in their minds, this lowly woman was that was washing his feet...he first mentions that his hosts did not even offer him water to wash his feet, but this "lowly woman" washed his feet with her own tears..

That is when he told a parable to his follower:

He said paraphrased....

There are two indentured servants that owe me money, one owes me a $100 dollars, and the other owes me $10,000, (which has to be paid before they can be released from their slavery of sorts)

I have forgiven the debt of both.

Which one will love me the most?

And the correct answer was the one who was indebted to Him the most for his favor...or in other words, for his many sins that were forgiven...or in her case, the one who had sinned the most.

Translated in to today, and your question or your sensible desire...

I think my best educated guess, based on this parable, is that the guy from the poor, ravished country, would be so much more indebted to Americans and America.... from saving him from this hell hole that he comes from, than say the person who lives in a place like Norway (just using as an example)

and just my 2 cents...

 

[Care4all]

Spending time on my grandparents farm growing up I picked peas,corn, and tomatos among other's it's not for the out of shape but if I needed a job and someone offered it to me I would do it.

so you are okay with putting the merit based foreign immigrants in the limited ''good jobs'' in America??

You allow them in as necessity dictates.
You dont allow them to flood the country like barry did with the shithole immigrants.

Illegal immigrants and Refugees are different, have a different status in our laws, and are handled differently....

And no President has refused refugees from a country that has had a natural disaster or has murderous thugs trying to kill them or the people are dying in droves due to a famine....