Here is what I want to know from Democrats at USMB....

[Toddsterpatriot]

Now why would you have to pay them less than a Mexican, if all the Mexicans went home?

You tell me first. How much does an illegal Mexican get paid to clean toilets.
And why would it pay more for an American to clean toilets?

How much is a clean toilet worth?

If you reduce the supply of toilet cleaners.........

Come on, even a liberal should know what comes next.

 

[leftwinger]

I'd much rather take that money and spend it on schools and roads and things that will make the country better for the rest of us.

Except they do not spend it on that. They hire all their buddies and relatives to high pay do nothing jobs. They pay $10K/mo pensions after 20-30 years of do nothing and want us to work 60 years for $2K/mo that we pay for as we work. They travel, party and waste on nonsense. They pay hard working military soldiers peanuts while they run around staying in $5K/night rooms taking up whole floors. They run up huge bar bills on free cross country weekly trips. you name it, Taxpayer fed up!

They do bare minimum on roads, bridges, schools and pipes.....see Flint.

 

[leftwinger]

I think what you should do is move to one of those places, try it out for a couple of years,

If BIG Centralized Govt was the answer,,,,,,,we would be typing on NK laptop, driving Cuban cars and eating at Venezulan Chimichanga fast food conglomerate. USA creates and produces because you can get rich doing it. No one does anything when Govt keeps it all. If I invent a car that drives over traffic I want massive cut of it or I am not going to do it so the Govt can retire better faster.

 

[rightwinger]

I'd much rather take that money and spend it on schools and roads and things that will make the country better for the rest of us.

Except they do not spend it on that. They hire all their buddies and relatives to high pay do nothing jobs. They pay $10K/mo pensions after 20-30 years of do nothing and want us to work 60 years for $2K/mo that we pay for as we work. They travel, party and waste on nonsense. They pay hard working military soldiers peanuts while they run around staying in $5K/night rooms taking up whole floors. They run up huge bar bills on free cross country weekly trips. you name it, Taxpayer fed up!

They do bare minimum on roads, bridges, schools and pipes.....see Flint.

Who are "they"?

Sounds like one of your fantasies

 

[leftwinger]

And its hard to find a job when you can't read well.

OK. I would prefer to blow up the system that crated this mess, not throw more money at it. Fix it (revamp) so we don't end up with 50 million more of this problem. They have plenty of money but do a terrible job. Your stats show massive failure. Time to re-group, start over.

 

[leftwinger]

Who are "they"?

here is a few. Don't think this is not going on? And many take retirement, then hire back on another city or same as consultant at more pay. Wake up out there. Oh yeah, it called pension spiking.

Bozzo receives $10,803 monthly (before taxes) for the rest of his life, said Amy Norris, spokeswoman for the California Public Employees' Retirement System.

Chiefs sue for unpaid OT

 

[Wilbur Right]

If you reduce the supply of toilet cleaners.........

How many toilet cleaners do you need? Put a number on it so we know how many jobs there are to be filled.

Are some toilet cleaners here legally? Can they keep their jobs?

Will the poor Americans filling these jobs, will they need to be trained? How much does that cost?

 

[Wilbur Right]

And many take retirement, then hire back on another city or same as consultant at more pay. Wake up out there. Oh yeah, it called pension spiking.[/QUOTE





It's called working the system. Especially government systems are prone to abuse. It's how people work the welfare system, the tax system, the law system. Etc.

Some are just better at it than others.
Some even try to stop abuse of the system.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you reduce the supply of toilet cleaners.........

How many toilet cleaners do you need? Put a number on it so we know how many jobs there are to be filled.

Are some toilet cleaners here legally? Can they keep their jobs?

Will the poor Americans filling these jobs, will they need to be trained? How much does that cost?

You'll have to ask someone else as you attempt to refute supply-demand.
Good luck.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think what you should do is move to one of those places, try it out for a couple of years,

If BIG Centralized Govt was the answer,,,,,,,we would be typing on NK laptop, driving Cuban cars and eating at Venezulan Chimichanga fast food conglomerate. USA creates and produces because you can get rich doing it. No one does anything when Govt keeps it all. If I invent a car that drives over traffic I want massive cut of it or I am not going to do it so the Govt can retire better faster.

If the tax rate were 0%, the federal government would collect 0 dollars.

If the tax rate were 100%, the federal government would still collect 0 dollars because who would be stupid enough to create money?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So because we can't get rid of union teachers in our schools, we should just support these people? How about we get rid of the union teachers first and maybe put in teachers that can do the job to reduce those statistics?

Well Ray. You know what the biggest factor as to whether or not a kid learns to read well? How well the kids mother reads.

You know what 61 percent of poor families do not have in their houses?
Any reading material.

Just because you don't want to believe it Ray, it is true. Literacy rates are not good.

And its hard to find a job when you can't read well.

Well then I would say the first thing you need to do is learn how to read. Why is it that you and I can read but others can't?

Is it just nature with some people, bad luck, or perhaps the fact that they didn't put any effort into learning how to read?

61% don't have any reading material in their homes? How much is a local newspaper again?

You can lead a horse to water......... but that shouldn't be the liability of the taxpayer. Every child in this country has the opportunity to attained primary school and high school as well. If teachers are not flunking kids because of their inability to read, then we have found the problem. Now we just have to find a way to solve it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Joe believes that the top 10% paying 70% of all collected income tax is not enough, but companies that won't pay a floor sweeper a living wage are the greedy ones.

What do you think we, as a society, should do with floor sweepers? Not everyone can be a CEO

Right now, the company pays him as little as they can and the taxpayers pick up the rest

Is that model acceptable with you?

Not at all. I'm for cutting social programs drastically. Then those people might try harder to be more successful in life and actually become something.

That's the way it was when I was younger. Social programs didn't pay diddly, and nobody I knew was ever on them outside of unemployment which working people paid into. People worked harder and more days or hours. More people sought a career of some kind in order to make more money. Nobody I knew used a box store as an excuse to be a failure and continue to be a failure.

There are a lot of jobs between a CEO and floor sweeper. I see them all the time when I go through industrial areas with all those HELP WANTED signs that seem to be there forever because companies can't find workers. I know what my employer went through to find new workers. Oh yes, some of them said they would accept the job, but none of them would give up smoking pot to get it. Pot is more important than making a living. Why? Because they always have taxpayers to suck off of.

There are 30 million working Americans who still receive some form of government assistance to survive. Are you suggesting that they are not trying hard?
Do you believe there are 30 million second jobs or 30 million "better jobs" for them to move in to?

If so....show me the employment statistics with 30 million unfilled jobs

I can show you hundreds of thousands of jobs that industry can't find workers for. Take my profession for example. This year, it's predicted that we will need over 60,000 new truck drivers this year that industry can't find. Some of the jobs will not only train you, but will pay you while you learn.

Now they have been forced to hire foreigners who can't even read or speak English. They are terrible drivers to boot. But what else can industry do?

My father is retired, and his former union sends retirees news letter from time to time. They sent one a few years ago asking their retirees to find people to apply for bricklaying jobs. Yes, it's tough work no doubt, but it's a career that pays pretty damn good money. My father did quite well for himself. Yet, they still couldn't find clean workers to take the jobs.

The internet is full of jobs that companies can't find workers for. Check it out yourself. All kinds of professions from construction to machining to truck drivers. When those jobs are all taken, then we can discuss the lack of jobs for Americans in this country.

Your anecdotal evidence of truck drivers in Cleveland does not account for the 30 million jobs that would be needed to keep workers off of public assistance
Americans are among the most productive in the world. Their declining wages and benefits don't reflect it

No, many Americans are the most productive in the world. Unfortunately we still have a large population that wishes not to work so they don't.

My point is that it has nothing to do with not enough jobs out there. As I said, when all those jobs are filled, and we still have Americans that can't find a job, then you might have a point. Until then, you are making yet more excuses for people not to work.

And 60,000 driving jobs are spread out across the US, not just here in Cleveland. It doesn't matter where you live. As long as you are even close to civilization, there is an outfit looking to find good drivers. And again, I'm just giving you a few examples. There are many other kinds of work that still need employees.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Is it just nature with some people, bad luck, or perhaps the fact that they didn't put any effort into learning how to read?

Some one taught you to read. Chances are your mother could read well.

If you don't get taught to read Ray, guess what. You can't read. A kids reading level at third grade effects reading from then on. Kids learn to read till third grade. After that, they read to learn.

But really Ray, why would someone go out and buy a newspaper If they can't read? Are they gonna give it to their kid that cant read?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Is it just nature with some people, bad luck, or perhaps the fact that they didn't put any effort into learning how to read?

Some one taught you to read. Chances are your mother could read well.

If you don't get taught to read Ray, guess what. You can't read. A kids reading level at third grade effects reading from then on. Kids learn to read till third grade. After that, they read to learn.

But really Ray, why would someone go out and buy a newspaper If they can't read? Are they gonna give it to their kid that cant read?

You tell me. You're the one that made the point that some people have no reading material in their home. If that's part of the problem, I just gave you a solution.

Who taught me to read? Teachers, that's who. By law, I was forced to attend school whether I wanted to or not. Yes, my parents are literate, but they only helped me along I'm sure. The education process is our schools, and if they're not doing the job, maybe it's time we get rid of them. I'm paying a hell of a lot of money for those schools I have no children in.

 

[JoeB131]

No, when Reagan became president you weren't making anyone pay anything. We had 21% prime interest rates and runaway inflation. The top marginal income tax rate was 71% and virtually no one was paying it.

No, but they were paying enough. Between 1776 and 1976, the entire national debt was 600 BILLION. That includes paying for two world wars, an interstate highway system, a Great Society, a Space Program and a lot of other really kind of neat shit.

During Jimmy Carter's time, the Debt went up another 300 Billion or so, mostly due to high inflation. THen that senile old **** Reagan came along, and he ran up the debt from less than a Trillion to 3 Trillion, tripling the debt run up by his 39 predecessors. When that idiot Bush left, it was up to 4.5 Trillion, and that was after he raised taxes. Clinton got the debt thing under control by making the rich pay their fair share, and by the end of his term, it was only a little shy of six trillion and we were posting SURPLUSES.

Well, Bush Jr. wasn't having any of that shit. Tax cuts for the rich and put a war on a credit card, baby!!!! So we have 18 Trillion today.

The rich are very smart. That's why they are rich and you're not. It has nothing to do with dull or exciting.... or how much fun they are to talk to. You are the dullard in the room... all you ever want to suggest is fascist strong-arm tactics to steal the wealth of those who earned it so you can redistribute it into your socialist scheme. When you're not droning on like a radical left-wing nutbag you're lying about having once been a republican.

Most Rich people are walking arguments for estate taxes. Born on Third Base and thought they hit a triple.

 

[Boss]

The thread is about the senile old ****, Bernie Sanders and why your ilk is not supporting him. It's not about Reagan, who won in a historic landslide and gave us 30 years of the greatest peace-time prosperity in history. You want to rant about Reagan or rich people, start another ******* thread.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course you would. You're a Communist. You don't believe in a free capitalistic society. You want to live in the Cradle-to-Grave society where government owns just about everything including money which they distribute as they see fit. You want to see a society where government tells you what to do, when to do it, and how long to do it for.

Guy, captialism isn't a "Free" society. Usually, when one of you ***** talks about "Freedom", it usually means the ability of those with money to abuse those without.

It really makes me wonder why people like you stay in a country like this when there are others that would meet your desires such as North Korea or Cuba. In their societies, everybody is equal--equally poor. The government feeds you, provides you with medical care if you want to call it that, and no citizens have guns or wealth--only the government.

The argument there is what were those countries like BEFORE the Communists got into power. Cuba was a defacto American colony where 75% of the arable land was owned by foreigners and most of the people lived in abject misery. That's why they put Castro into power, and that's why 55 years of punishing them for it hasn't gotten them to change their minds.

What you guys want us to be like is Chile or Argentina, Capitalist paradises with a very rich class and everyone else. Thankfully, there are enough sensible people to keep you from getting your way, and a good thing, too, becuase most of you would be screwed like the rest of us.

I think what you should do is move to one of those places, try it out for a couple of years, and then move back (if they allow you to) and tell us how it was. See if you don't kiss the ground of a country those slave raping assholes made for you.

Maybe you should move down to Mexico and see what it's like to live in a place where they let big corporations rape the place with impunity. We wouldn't have to worry about you coming back because you'd die of dysentery the first week.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No, when Reagan became president you weren't making anyone pay anything. We had 21% prime interest rates and runaway inflation. The top marginal income tax rate was 71% and virtually no one was paying it.

No, but they were paying enough. Between 1776 and 1976, the entire national debt was 600 BILLION. That includes paying for two world wars, an interstate highway system, a Great Society, a Space Program and a lot of other really kind of neat shit.

During Jimmy Carter's time, the Debt went up another 300 Billion or so, mostly due to high inflation. THen that senile old **** Reagan came along, and he ran up the debt from less than a Trillion to 3 Trillion, tripling the debt run up by his 39 predecessors. When that idiot Bush left, it was up to 4.5 Trillion, and that was after he raised taxes. Clinton got the debt thing under control by making the rich pay their fair share, and by the end of his term, it was only a little shy of six trillion and we were posting SURPLUSES.

Well, Bush Jr. wasn't having any of that shit. Tax cuts for the rich and put a war on a credit card, baby!!!! So we have 18 Trillion today.

The rich are very smart. That's why they are rich and you're not. It has nothing to do with dull or exciting.... or how much fun they are to talk to. You are the dullard in the room... all you ever want to suggest is fascist strong-arm tactics to steal the wealth of those who earned it so you can redistribute it into your socialist scheme. When you're not droning on like a radical left-wing nutbag you're lying about having once been a republican.

Most Rich people are walking arguments for estate taxes. Born on Third Base and thought they hit a triple.

When that idiot Bush left, it was up to 4.5 Trillion,

Obama's going to end up adding double the debt that all the presidents accrued before Clinton, all by himself?

 

[JoeB131]

The thread is about the senile old ****, Bernie Sanders and why your ilk is not supporting him. It's not about Reagan, who won in a historic landslide and gave us 30 years of the greatest peace-time prosperity in history. You want to rant about Reagan or rich people, start another ******* thread.

Duly noted you lost the argument about Reagan. Funny, I seem to remember Four Recessions since he was president, and they were all pretty bad.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Of course you would. You're a Communist. You don't believe in a free capitalistic society. You want to live in the Cradle-to-Grave society where government owns just about everything including money which they distribute as they see fit. You want to see a society where government tells you what to do, when to do it, and how long to do it for.

Guy, captialism isn't a "Free" society. Usually, when one of you ***** talks about "Freedom", it usually means the ability of those with money to abuse those without.

It really makes me wonder why people like you stay in a country like this when there are others that would meet your desires such as North Korea or Cuba. In their societies, everybody is equal--equally poor. The government feeds you, provides you with medical care if you want to call it that, and no citizens have guns or wealth--only the government.

The argument there is what were those countries like BEFORE the Communists got into power. Cuba was a defacto American colony where 75% of the arable land was owned by foreigners and most of the people lived in abject misery. That's why they put Castro into power, and that's why 55 years of punishing them for it hasn't gotten them to change their minds.

What you guys want us to be like is Chile or Argentina, Capitalist paradises with a very rich class and everyone else. Thankfully, there are enough sensible people to keep you from getting your way, and a good thing, too, becuase most of you would be screwed like the rest of us.

I think what you should do is move to one of those places, try it out for a couple of years, and then move back (if they allow you to) and tell us how it was. See if you don't kiss the ground of a country those slave raping assholes made for you.

Maybe you should move down to Mexico and see what it's like to live in a place where they let big corporations rape the place with impunity. We wouldn't have to worry about you coming back because you'd die of dysentery the first week.

Fool, Mexico is a country run by a large corrupt government--not capitalists. When your unions, taxations and regulations chase companies out of this country, few move to Mexico.

Only a liberal would take a stance that Communism is a better way of life than "what they had before." Oh, people used to live in abject misery? What do you think they live like now?

Capitalism is a free society because anybody can participate in capitalism. Who is stopping you from investing in the stock market, the commodities market, the bond market, the real estate market? Nobody. The problem with you liberals is you whine and complain about those who have been successful, but never risked one dollar of your own. You go to work everyday thinking that a job was created for you to have a standard of living. You never depended on anybody but your employer in which you feel he hasn't given you enough. And when you don't have enough (whatever that is) you blame somebody else instead of yourself.

While you cannot appreciate our valuable capitalistic system which allows a person to be anything they desire, people are sneaking into this country because of that very same system. Take note that they don't do the same with Cuba or North Korea where government controls everything just like you want it to be here.