Zone1 Here Are The Old Testament Passages Describing The Foretold Jewish Messiah

[HaShev]

Lots of arguments, all false.

That's your subjective opinion based on no refutation with sources for your opinions based on your blanket response with no substance.
Argue your case properly or don't make such missinformative statements.
Remember, it's the Book of Acts itself that tells you Saul met Paulus called Paul, describing what I just stated, so you'd be calling the NT as FALSE.

 

[rosends]

Yep, “He” was despised and rejected by the collective people of Judah. “He bore or atoned for our sins. Nowhere does it say “we” or the “Jews” suffered or atoned for the sins of the sinners. Your writers have added to it to attempt to hide the obvious about the Messiah. These are reasons I had to look for real truth and found them in Jesus Christ.

You clearly don't understand who the speaker is in the text and are unwilling to follow the pronouns to see the subuect. Best of luck to you.

 

[Cougarbear]

But Isaiahs Moshiach is Michael according to The Bible and commentary of that Biblical age by Dead Sea Scrolls on Isaiah. *(Also see my sources below)

You forget to mention Isaiah 53 is "past" tense not future tense & are lied to because much is written plural context being about Israel mentioned 14 times as the servant.
Jesus was popular according to the NT therefore can't be Isaiah's mention of despised without saying the NT lies.
Israel on the other hand fits the "disfigured" (boundries and people during the Holocaust) and "despised" if you were to make everything about future events).
Moshiach lifts the veil from our eyes.-Isaiah 25:7
The Roman created icon made everyone blind, especially to who was behind the curtain pulling the strings speaking through the image and collecting taxes (tithes) through that image.
He'll be of the line of David (Is.11:1)
Jesus who wasn't a singular historical figure was born out a pen so his lineage was not, nor was the lineage they used in passages.
"He will swallow up death forever.
Isaiah 25:8
Jesus did the opposite, he caused his flock and people to be slain and scattered and to this day there are still Christians with life insurance policies, grave yards, and funeral homes.

The Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did Israel-Is.52:13-53:12
Jesus did the opposite and helped cause those wrongs.

Isaiah's only mention that resembled Jesus was when he described Nebuchadnezzar in Is14 in which case Rome wrote him in (rev 22:16) as that very same fallen Lucifer (Morning Star)
Isaiah 14:12-19 son of day/ Morning Star was Lucifer.-(prophecy often spoke of the historical knowing we repeat History and resemblances spiritually, so 3 layers the Historical Nebuchadnezzar is described and the repeat History Saddam admittingly trying to emulate Nebuchadnezzar fits the passage of unrecognized disheveled and found in a pit, then the spiritual emulation fitting Jesus death scene and claim to be the nemesis of Shalem (the Evening Star-Michael).

*More Sources Isaiah's Moshiach is Michael:
In 1 Ezra 1:1 it was the Lord (Master/Top/Arch) who stirred up the spirit of Cyrus, king of Persia. Giving him the vision and anointing (Isaiah 45) to give the decree in 538, liberating the Jews who were captive in Babylonia and allowing them to return to their homeland. Cyrus battle was not physical it was spiritually in concious through the messenger Dan describes as Michael in 10:20-21. This proves Moshiach already fulfilled the liberating, gathering and Temple building in those days of old as will be done in our day. This is even backed by the explicit mention that it is "the redeemer" doing these things, per
accounts in Isaiah 44:24-28. Since Dan explicitely reveals Michael dealing with Cyrus,
then Isaiah 44:24-28 is calling Michael the 'redeemer' (HaSheva).
*NOTE DAN reveals the first name, last name, and even nickname of Moshiach not once does he mention Jesus, but the creators of the Jesus character mentions Jesus coming to steal from that very same named Moshiach in Daniel's verses. And at the very end the writers reveal the punchline(Rev 22:16), that they created Jesus to be the adversary of Moshiach aka Lucifer character of the Bible.

Daniel prophecy is concerning the last days, not the meridian of time as with Jesus atonement in Isaiah 53. And, with Michael the prince in the last days, Adam will return to receive the keys if the kingdom from the current latter day prophets. Then, Adam, the ancient of days, will hand them to Jesus Christ (Jehovah) at Adam-Ondi-Ahman. Where Adam dwelt.

 

[Cougarbear]

You clearly don't understand who the speaker is in the text and are unwilling to follow the pronouns to see the subuect. Best of luck to you.

The speaker is Isaiah revealing his vision of Jesus Christ. Again, “He” is not a plural pronoun. You are internet”wokeism” to confuse people. “He bore our sins.” A specific man bore our sins as he is seeing this future event of the rejection by the Jews (Judah). Still doing it today.

 

[rosends]

The speaker is Isaiah revealing his vision of Jesus Christ. Again, “He” is not a plural pronoun. You are internet”wokeism” to confuse people. “He bore our sins.” A specific man bore our sins as he is seeing this future event of the rejection by the Jews (Judah). Still doing it today.

Nope. The speakers are not Isaiah. You don't even understand the superficial text without having the church feed you it's party line. Sad. When you decide to study the actual text, let me know.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Gets back to the purpose of all of us coming to the earth in the first place. John 3:12-13, "12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." What is the heavenly thing in #13? It's that not only did Jesus come from Heaven, so did all of mankind as well. We as spirit bodies lived with Heavenly Father and descended into our earthly bodies. One of the reasons we came was to simply receive a physical body so in the future, we can be resurrected with our spirit bodies as Jesus did. As Paul wrote in First Corinthians chapter 15, our resurrected bodies will have 3 possibilities based on our lives here on earth. Celestial Glory, Terrestrial Glory and Telestial Glory. Which one will partially depend on how we respond to each test in life of choosing between Good or Evil. This is one of the great gifts is that we have our free moral agency to choose good or evil. That leads into the answer of your question.

See, even if Jehovah had descended right after Adam and Eve left the Garden and before there was in in the world (impossible to begin with) then what sin would Jesus have been dying for and who would have sinned to kill him? Adam and Eve? Hardly. That's one reason that it didn't matter if he came the day before Noah's Flood or when he actually came to atone for the sins of mankind. So, why did the Lord have to flood the earth and wipe all of mankind off the earth? Same reason he did so with Sodom and Gomorrah and the city of Enoch. The way he did was different is all. The reason is that the right of people to choose good or evil no longer was available. Only Evil when it came to Sodom, Gomorrah and the people of the earth before the Flood of Noah. He could no longer send His brother's and sisters down to earth because the atonement would never be able to be applied as no one had the choice anymore. Same was true for the righteous city of Enoch. They were all at the point of righteousness that there was no longer any choice of evil. Instead of destroying the people because of unrighteousness evil, the Lord raised the entire city back to Heaven into Paradise. Perhaps that was when Paradise was first created.

A choice to contemplate. Do you still have a choice to accept the God of Heaven and Earth and keep the commandments or do you in vain condemn and reject the God of Heaven and Earth and keep not the commandments?

Thou Shalt Not Have Strange Gods

 

[HaShev]

Daniel prophecy is concerning the last days, not the meridian of time as with Jesus atonement in Isaiah 53. And, with Michael the prince in the last days, Adam will return to receive the keys if the kingdom from the current latter day prophets. Then, Adam, the ancient of days, will hand them to Jesus Christ (Jehovah) at Adam-Ondi-Ahman. Where Adam dwelt.

Is 53 is not about Jesus and Jesus is mentioned 0 times in Isaiah. Read what I wrote about How Jesus can't be in Isaiah and refute each and every point.
The NT says Jesus was loved by all and Isaiah says the servant is despised or "was" despised by all.

I found the source in the scrolls I left out my post:
Isaiah first of all mentions the Prince of the Congregation-"Michael", as the Davidic Messiah (scroll 4 Q285 Fr. 5 which is written in the Book of Isaiah & In the "Isaiah Commentary" scroll: (IQSb,v 20-29)
Once again Michael is Isaiah's Moshiach, which is why in Isaiah 66:19 says you have not seen the face (description) of God yet, something you would have if the messenger was legitimately describing God to you.
The Nazarenes believed their god to be that luciferous ray of light between the sun and earth-hence you have not yet known or seen God as being described throughout the Tanakh.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

That's the interpretation of those who rejected Jesus. I understand that. That's why many didn't recognize Him then and now. Paul explained it perfectly.

Go Utope, Go Broke

Paul was the Karl Marx of his time, believing that he would rule the world soon. Like Jesus himself, he never expected he'd be killed when the cult was still a fringe group.

 

[Cougarbear]

Nope. The speakers are not Isaiah. You don't even understand the superficial text without having the church feed you it's party line. Sad. When you decide to study the actual text, let me know.

Chapter 53 was written by Isaiah. When he says in verse one, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?" The question is who is "OUR?" From New Testament John 12:38, "Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" I would again say that in a vision, Isaiah is conversing with the Lord. And therefore "OUR" refers to the two personages, the Lord and Isaiah.
Now, I would also say that the word "OUR" could be other persons with Isaiah as they were writing the report of Isaiah's vision. Either way, who has believed the vision of Isaiah seeing the crucifixion of the one who would atone for the sins of mankind who accept the one doing the atoning. You are attempting to take the eyes off the importance of the vision of Isaiah concerning the Lord's atoning sacrifice. Who in history has atoned for the sins of others? You, as a Jew, cannot atone for my sins. You are corrupt in nature as I am. You can forgive me of sins I commit to you. But, you cannot wipe away my sins when it comes to God.

 

[HaShev]

Go Utope, Go Broke

Paul was the Karl Marx of his time, believing that he would rule the world soon. Like Jesus himself, he never expected he'd be killed when the cult was still a fringe group.

And after they were killed they could not recant their belief or claim that their cult leader was their liberator and christ figure, sort of like Branch Davidians who died couldn't reject the notion that David was their Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

Thou Shalt Not Have Strange Gods

Nice quote. How does it affect what I stated? I was speaking about the God of Israel.

 

[rosends]

Chapter 53 was written by Isaiah. When he says in verse one, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?" The question is who is "OUR?"

Yes, and the text makes clear whyo the "our" is and you missed it.

From New Testament John 12:38, "Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" I would again say that in a vision, Isaiah is conversing with the Lord. And therefore "OUR" refers to the two personages, the Lord and Isaiah.
Now, I would also say that the word "OUR" could be other persons with Isaiah as they were writing the report of Isaiah's vision. Either way, who has believed the vision of Isaiah seeing the crucifixion of the one who would atone for the sins of mankind who accept the one doing the atoning. You are attempting to take the eyes off the importance of the vision of Isaiah concerning the Lord's atoning sacrifice. Who in history has atoned for the sins of others? You, as a Jew, cannot atone for my sins. You are corrupt in nature as I am. You can forgive me of sins I commit to you. But, you cannot wipe away my sins when it comes to God.

swing and a miss...go back and read.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

And after they were killed they could not recant their belief or claim that their cult leader was their liberator and christ figure, sort of like Branch Davidians who died couldn't reject the notion that David was their Christ.

Quislings Turn the Other Cheek

To anyone thinking critically, the Evangelists' evidence sound like make-believe. But the Machiavellian tactics of the Roman imperialists is consistent with their cleverness and, historically, it has helped create the long reigns of all empires. So those whose minds are protected from the pulpit's loud speakers would have to conclude that Jesus was an agent of the Roman Empire.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yes, and the text makes clear whyo the "our" is and you missed it.


swing and a miss...go back and read.

All it says is Who will believe our report. Please tell us your view on this one sentence.

 

[rosends]

All it says is Who will believe our report. Please tell us your view on this one sentence.

That's because you are a slave to the Christian chapter headings. The plural noun is clearly given directly before the pronoun is used. The question asked is introduced by setting the scene which includes who is speaking. Basic stuff.

 

[Cougarbear]

That's because you are a slave to the Christian chapter headings. The plural noun is clearly given directly before the pronoun is used. The question asked is introduced by setting the scene which includes who is speaking. Basic stuff.

No, you flunked your English test. Who is asking who believed their report (OUR). You did not believe and thus are damned. There is no progression for you in the Kingdom of God. In Jesus day, there were 12 who believed that the Lord would come and atone for the sins of mankind. From the 12, thousands joined. And now, a couple billion. How strong are the testimonies of the billions? I'd say most are not very strong. They reject prophets and apostles in our day as did the people in Isaiah's day and the days the Lord walked the earth. There are no words in the Bible that says God can't speak through Prophets in our day. None.
So I ask you again, who are the "OUR?"

 

[rosends]

No, you flunked your English test. Who is asking who believed their report (OUR).

Yes -- you just don't understand who the "our" is.

You did not believe and thus are damned.

That is completely absent from the text.

So I ask you again, who are the "OUR?"

Finally, a reasonable question. Just find the people listed in the text who are confronted with seeing something that they can't believe and who don't want to report it because no one would believe them. The text says who it is explicitly. You can find it -- I believe in your ability to find a simple plural noun.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yes -- you just don't understand who the "our" is.


That is completely absent from the text.

Finally, a reasonable question. Just find the people listed in the text who are confronted with seeing something that they can't believe and who don't want to report it because no one would believe them. The text says who it is explicitly. You can find it -- I believe in your ability to find a simple plural noun.

I already said the "Who" are those who rejected the vision and message of the coming of the Lord, Jesus Christ.
Our is Isaiah and the Lord. If others were included in the vision then so are they. But, I doubt it as Amos was clear, the Lord only revealeth secrets to his servants the prophets. Now, enlighten me instead of responding in riddles. I give you direct answers. You can't, right?

 

[rosends]

I already said the "Who" are those who rejected the vision and message of the coming of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

Nope. Not what the text says. Nice try though.

Our is Isaiah and the Lord. If others were included in the vision then so are they. But, I doubt it as Amos was clear, the Lord only revealeth secrets to his servants the prophets. Now, enlighten me instead of responding in riddles. I give you direct answers. You can't, right?

Sure I can. If you are unable to read the basic text, I can present the verse to you that says explicitly who is speaking:

"so shall he startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they perceive."

many nations and their kings. They are going to see something they can't believe. Then they say "Who would have believed our report?"

 

[Cougarbear]

Nope. Not what the text says. Nice try though.

Sure I can. If you are unable to read the basic text, I can present the verse to you that says explicitly who is speaking:

"so shall he startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they perceive."

many nations and their kings. They are going to see something they can't believe. Then they say "Who would have believed our report?"

Same thing. Who cares of some were kings. Their nation which means their people as well including the nation of Israel and Judah. Again, it's a prophecy in the future, not the present. Although, it would have been great if the people would have taught truth all the way to the days of Jesus Christ. But, they didn't. They lost their prophets and thus became apostates.