HELP - Israel vs Palestinians - Educate me

[ForeverYoung436]

I would try to dig and mine and search until I found the truth of this matter and then I would join the IDF and fight on the side of right.

The only reason you have not lost this struggle is because of your blind stubbornness and devotion to Islam.

The only reason there is such a conflict without a solution is because of your blind stubbornness and devotion to Islam.

The Muslim Arabs have the losing argument.

It is time for the Palestinians to give up on what the Koran says about the land being ONLY for the followers of Allah and be fair to themselves and the Jews and everyone else in the region.

Peace can be yours.

Maybe the Jews should not have stolen the land from the Christians and Muslims that were living on it. Don't you think. Why did they go to another continent to evict the non-Jews ? Do you think that is justified?

Jews did not steal land from Christians and muslims-----however----muslims and Christians stole
land from jews------and lots of other people-----muslims and Christians stole land from
hindus and from American Indians and from natives of Africa and Australia and Asia-----learn some
history

A very interesting historical note------it was actually CHRISTIANS who invented a law which prevented
jews from owning land------1700 years ago. 1400 years ago muslims adopted that law. -----
thus all land OWNED by jews became "STOLEN" according to the filth which fascinates you.

rosie brings up a good point. Are you Native American monte?

 

[mdalby]

I found some good info today that I was looking for. In another thread, I posted this question...

I have heard the following occurred, but I don't have any documentation to support. Can anyone help me document if this is correct?

I heard that during the 1967 Six Day War, Egypt told the Palestinians and the world that they were going to attack Israel and told the Palestinians to leave Jerusalem and Israel so Egypt could attack Jerusalem without injuring the Palestinians. The Palestinians evacuated the area in support of Egypt so they could then go back into Jerusalem and the Israeli state and take the land. After Egypt and Jordan etc lost the 6 day war, the Palestinians wanted to return to take control of the land / homes that they evacuated.

Is this correct?

I found a book that has some good quotes regarding the Palestinians evacuating their land. I was incorrect on the timeline but the principle is the same.

The Arabs are the only declared refugees who became refugees not by the action of their enemies or because of well-grounded fear of their enemies, but by the initiative of their own leaders. For nearly a generation, those leaders have willfully kept as many people as they possibly could in degenerating squalor, preventing their rehabilitation, and holding out to all of them the hope of return and of “vengeance” on the Jews of Israel, to whom they have transferred the blame for their plight....The Arab refugees were not driven from Palestine by anyone. The vast majority left, whether of their own free will or at the orders or exhortations of their leaders, always with the same reassurance that their departure would help in the war against Israel. Attacks by Palestinian Arabs on the Jews had begun two days after the United Nations adopted its decision of November 29, 1947, to divide western Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish state. The seven neighboring Arab states Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt then prepared to invade the country as soon as the birth of the infant State of Israel was announced.

The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the ‘Zionist gangs’ very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile.” [Sada at Tanub, August 16, 1948]

“This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country.”

Kenneth Bilby, one of the Americans who covered Palestine for several weeks during the war of 1948, wrote soon afterwards on his experience and observations:

“The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.” [New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31]​

These excerpts are from Shmuel Katz, “Battleground: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine.”

I can't post the link since I am a newbie.

 

[Indeependent]

I found some good info today that I was looking for. In another thread, I posted this question...

I have heard the following occurred, but I don't have any documentation to support. Can anyone help me document if this is correct?

I heard that during the 1967 Six Day War, Egypt told the Palestinians and the world that they were going to attack Israel and told the Palestinians to leave Jerusalem and Israel so Egypt could attack Jerusalem without injuring the Palestinians. The Palestinians evacuated the area in support of Egypt so they could then go back into Jerusalem and the Israeli state and take the land. After Egypt and Jordan etc lost the 6 day war, the Palestinians wanted to return to take control of the land / homes that they evacuated.

Is this correct?

I found a book that has some good quotes regarding the Palestinians evacuating their land. I was incorrect on the timeline but the principle is the same.

The Arabs are the only declared refugees who became refugees not by the action of their enemies or because of well-grounded fear of their enemies, but by the initiative of their own leaders. For nearly a generation, those leaders have willfully kept as many people as they possibly could in degenerating squalor, preventing their rehabilitation, and holding out to all of them the hope of return and of “vengeance” on the Jews of Israel, to whom they have transferred the blame for their plight....The Arab refugees were not driven from Palestine by anyone. The vast majority left, whether of their own free will or at the orders or exhortations of their leaders, always with the same reassurance that their departure would help in the war against Israel. Attacks by Palestinian Arabs on the Jews had begun two days after the United Nations adopted its decision of November 29, 1947, to divide western Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish state. The seven neighboring Arab states Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt then prepared to invade the country as soon as the birth of the infant State of Israel was announced.

The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the ‘Zionist gangs’ very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile.” [Sada at Tanub, August 16, 1948]

“This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country.”

Kenneth Bilby, one of the Americans who covered Palestine for several weeks during the war of 1948, wrote soon afterwards on his experience and observations:

“The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.” [New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31]​

These excerpts are from Shmuel Katz, “Battleground: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine.”

I can't post the link since I am a newbie.

Yep.

 

[proudveteran06]

T'm sitting here in Germany, watching the news channels and every time they bring up Gaza, they show big Hellfire explosions in the far distance (terrorists houses being hit), then it's always a herd of men running through the streets with bloody babies. Never a dead or wounded fighter. All you veterans remember first aid training in basic training and know the worst thing is to even move a wounded person, let alone dragging them through the streets like a sack of dog food. The European news sites are pretty much siding with the Palestinians. I wonder why when most of those countries are infested with Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims taking over, rioting, raping, murdering and generally stinking up the place- .

It is you that is stinking up the place, you racist piece of crap.

Every word Hossfly said is true, Monte, you like every other Hamas are the racists, calling to kill Jews, and everywhere you find Muslims/Arabs even when theres no Jews - there's horrific violence.

Look at what is going on in Iraq and Syria with the killing of Christians who don't convert to Islam? I realize this is the I/P board so I can't put up links but I can refer to it without getting a " warning" The excuse Pro Pals give for not even acknowledging it is that they can't which is another lie.

 

[montelatici]

It is you that is stinking up the place, you racist piece of crap.

Every word Hossfly said is true, Monte, you like every other Hamas are the racists, calling to kill Jews, and everywhere you find Muslims/Arabs even when theres no Jews - there's horrific violence.

Look at what is going on in Iraq and Syria with the killing of Christians who don't convert to Islam? I realize this is the I/P board so I can't put up links but I can refer to it without getting a " warning" The excuse Pro Pals give for not even acknowledging it is that they can't which is another lie.

They are just as murderous as the Israelis, and just as disgusting. ISIS and the groups that were created after the secular regimes in Iraq and Syria were undermined by the West are just as religiously driven as the Israelis.

 

[MHunterB]

Every word Hossfly said is true, Monte, you like every other Hamas are the racists, calling to kill Jews, and everywhere you find Muslims/Arabs even when theres no Jews - there's horrific violence.

Look at what is going on in Iraq and Syria with the killing of Christians who don't convert to Islam? I realize this is the I/P board so I can't put up links but I can refer to it without getting a " warning" The excuse Pro Pals give for not even acknowledging it is that they can't which is another lie.

They are just as murderous as the Israelis, and just as disgusting. ISIS and the groups that were created after the secular regimes in Iraq and Syria were undermined by the West are just as religiously driven as the Israelis.

That's quite ironic, considering how many Israelis are secular. AND considering how Judaism does not assert itself to be 'the one true' religion, not even 'the best and purest' religion. The Talmud, which Jew-haters love to vilify, states that 'the righteous of ALL nations have a place in the World to Come '(= 'Heaven').

There is NOTHING in Judaism to suggest that Jews should or do think of themselves as 'better' than anyone else. The 'chosen' is 'chosen by YHVH to receive His Sinai Covenant': this doesn't deny the existence nor validity of any other group/s having their own Covenants with Him.

 

[montelatici]

1. Yes

2. 196th Light Infantry Brigade

a. Thank you for your service to our country.

b. Lay off of Hoss - he's good people.

Thanx Monte for your service to our country, and I mean that sincerely. Did you serve in war or peacetime? If you served in war, you should know better about civilian casualties during war, and not be calling Israeli soldiers murderers.

We did not bomb the crap out of apartment buildings or hospitals. We made sure that the villagers left their huts before we burned them and the food supplies, which were stored for the VC. The IDF targets civilians as a terror weapon to get them to turn on Hamas, we did not do that. We knew that they would support the VC no matter what we did. The VC were their relatives. The thing that struck me the most when I was in Vietnam was when after a fire fight, we found the barber at our FoB, dead among the VC we killed.

 

[proudveteran06]

Every word Hossfly said is true, Monte, you like every other Hamas are the racists, calling to kill Jews, and everywhere you find Muslims/Arabs even when theres no Jews - there's horrific violence.

Look at what is going on in Iraq and Syria with the killing of Christians who don't convert to Islam? I realize this is the I/P board so I can't put up links but I can refer to it without getting a " warning" The excuse Pro Pals give for not even acknowledging it is that they can't which is another lie.

They are just as murderous as the Israelis, and just as disgusting. ISIS and the groups that were created after the secular regimes in Iraq and Syria were undermined by the West are just as religiously driven as the Israelis.

You"re right. ISIS just blew up a Religious statue in Iraq that is several hundred years old B.C . The Israelis are doing the same thing. ISIS is killing, Beheading, torturing that don"t convert to Islam. The Israelis are doing the same thing with the Jewish Religion. Those who are lucky enough to get out can"t bring anything with them. The Israelis are doing the same with those Arabs that live within Israel. No comment about Hamas who says they will accept the "67 Borders". but makes it clear their goal is to destroy Israel ( No Violence There!!!!).

 

[Challenger]

I found some good info today that I was looking for. In another thread, I posted this question...

I have heard the following occurred, but I don't have any documentation to support. Can anyone help me document if this is correct?

I heard that during the 1967 Six Day War, Egypt told the Palestinians and the world that they were going to attack Israel and told the Palestinians to leave Jerusalem and Israel so Egypt could attack Jerusalem without injuring the Palestinians. The Palestinians evacuated the area in support of Egypt so they could then go back into Jerusalem and the Israeli state and take the land. After Egypt and Jordan etc lost the 6 day war, the Palestinians wanted to return to take control of the land / homes that they evacuated.

Is this correct?

I found a book that has some good quotes regarding the Palestinians evacuating their land. I was incorrect on the timeline but the principle is the same.

The Arabs are the only declared refugees who became refugees not by the action of their enemies or because of well-grounded fear of their enemies, but by the initiative of their own leaders. For nearly a generation, those leaders have willfully kept as many people as they possibly could in degenerating squalor, preventing their rehabilitation, and holding out to all of them the hope of return and of “vengeance” on the Jews of Israel, to whom they have transferred the blame for their plight....The Arab refugees were not driven from Palestine by anyone. The vast majority left, whether of their own free will or at the orders or exhortations of their leaders, always with the same reassurance that their departure would help in the war against Israel. Attacks by Palestinian Arabs on the Jews had begun two days after the United Nations adopted its decision of November 29, 1947, to divide western Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish state. The seven neighboring Arab states Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt then prepared to invade the country as soon as the birth of the infant State of Israel was announced.

The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the ‘Zionist gangs’ very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile.” [Sada at Tanub, August 16, 1948]

“This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country.”

Kenneth Bilby, one of the Americans who covered Palestine for several weeks during the war of 1948, wrote soon afterwards on his experience and observations:

“The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.” [New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31]​

These excerpts are from Shmuel Katz, “Battleground: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine.”

I can't post the link since I am a newbie.

Katz' work has been consigned to the dustbin of history except amongst fanatical political right wingers and/or Zionists. Worthless political Zionist rant, the Zionist equivalent of "Mein Kampf".

The idea of Palestinians,"...encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine."

Has been so thoroughly debunked, even mainstream Zionist Israeli historians like Efraim Karsch have been forced to change their views. The fact is the Arab Higher Committee did all it could to stop the Palestinians leaving.

 

[Billo_Really]

I found some good info today that I was looking for. In another thread, I posted this question...

I have heard the following occurred, but I don't have any documentation to support. Can anyone help me document if this is correct?

I heard that during the 1967 Six Day War, Egypt told the Palestinians and the world that they were going to attack Israel and told the Palestinians to leave Jerusalem and Israel so Egypt could attack Jerusalem without injuring the Palestinians. The Palestinians evacuated the area in support of Egypt so they could then go back into Jerusalem and the Israeli state and take the land. After Egypt and Jordan etc lost the 6 day war, the Palestinians wanted to return to take control of the land / homes that they evacuated.

Is this correct?

I found a book that has some good quotes regarding the Palestinians evacuating their land. I was incorrect on the timeline but the principle is the same.

The Arabs are the only declared refugees who became refugees not by the action of their enemies or because of well-grounded fear of their enemies, but by the initiative of their own leaders. For nearly a generation, those leaders have willfully kept as many people as they possibly could in degenerating squalor, preventing their rehabilitation, and holding out to all of them the hope of return and of “vengeance” on the Jews of Israel, to whom they have transferred the blame for their plight....The Arab refugees were not driven from Palestine by anyone. The vast majority left, whether of their own free will or at the orders or exhortations of their leaders, always with the same reassurance that their departure would help in the war against Israel. Attacks by Palestinian Arabs on the Jews had begun two days after the United Nations adopted its decision of November 29, 1947, to divide western Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish state. The seven neighboring Arab states Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt then prepared to invade the country as soon as the birth of the infant State of Israel was announced.

The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the ‘Zionist gangs’ very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile.” [Sada at Tanub, August 16, 1948]

“This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country.”

Kenneth Bilby, one of the Americans who covered Palestine for several weeks during the war of 1948, wrote soon afterwards on his experience and observations:

“The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.” [New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31]​

These excerpts are from Shmuel Katz, “Battleground: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine.”

I can't post the link since I am a newbie.

This is one of the more ridiculous arguments on this issue.

That Palestinian's would get up and leave a home they've been living in for generations, just because someone they never met, comes up one day and "asks them to leave?"

If some stranger came up to your door and asked you to leave your home, what would you do?

 

[Mojo2]

Maybe the Jews should not have stolen the land from the Christians and Muslims that were living on it. Don't you think.

The Jews didn't steal anything from anyone.

 

[Hossfly]

I found some good info today that I was looking for. In another thread, I posted this question...

I have heard the following occurred, but I don't have any documentation to support. Can anyone help me document if this is correct?

I heard that during the 1967 Six Day War, Egypt told the Palestinians and the world that they were going to attack Israel and told the Palestinians to leave Jerusalem and Israel so Egypt could attack Jerusalem without injuring the Palestinians. The Palestinians evacuated the area in support of Egypt so they could then go back into Jerusalem and the Israeli state and take the land. After Egypt and Jordan etc lost the 6 day war, the Palestinians wanted to return to take control of the land / homes that they evacuated.

Is this correct?

I found a book that has some good quotes regarding the Palestinians evacuating their land. I was incorrect on the timeline but the principle is the same.

The Arabs are the only declared refugees who became refugees not by the action of their enemies or because of well-grounded fear of their enemies, but by the initiative of their own leaders. For nearly a generation, those leaders have willfully kept as many people as they possibly could in degenerating squalor, preventing their rehabilitation, and holding out to all of them the hope of return and of “vengeance” on the Jews of Israel, to whom they have transferred the blame for their plight....The Arab refugees were not driven from Palestine by anyone. The vast majority left, whether of their own free will or at the orders or exhortations of their leaders, always with the same reassurance that their departure would help in the war against Israel. Attacks by Palestinian Arabs on the Jews had begun two days after the United Nations adopted its decision of November 29, 1947, to divide western Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish state. The seven neighboring Arab states Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt then prepared to invade the country as soon as the birth of the infant State of Israel was announced.

The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the ‘Zionist gangs’ very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile.” [Sada at Tanub, August 16, 1948]

“This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country.”

Kenneth Bilby, one of the Americans who covered Palestine for several weeks during the war of 1948, wrote soon afterwards on his experience and observations:

“The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.” [New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31]​

These excerpts are from Shmuel Katz, “Battleground: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine.”

I can't post the link since I am a newbie.

This is one of the more ridiculous arguments on this issue.

That Palestinian's would get up and leave a home they've been living in for generations, just because someone they never met, comes up one day and "asks them to leave?"

If some stranger came up to your door and asked you to leave your home, what would you do?

They'll leave if they get an offer they can't refuse.

 

[Billo_Really]

The Jews didn't steal anything from anyone.

Tell that to the 750,000 Arabs driven off their land by Jewish terrorists.

 

[Billo_Really]

They'll leave if they get an offer they can't refuse.

Would you?

 

[Hossfly]

They'll leave if they get an offer they can't refuse.

Would you?

Probably. I wouldn't want to wind up fish food.

 

[Mojo2]

The Jews didn't steal anything from anyone.

Tell that to the 750,000 Arabs driven off their land by Jewish terrorists.

The really sad thing is that so many of them sincerely believe they are powerless before the Israelis.

 

[Billo_Really]

The really sad thing is that so many of them sincerely believe they are powerless before the Israelis.

I don't know what your definition of "powerless" is and I'm not sure what time period you're referring to? '48 or now?

In '48, you have farmers (who are not combat vets) against Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun (who are trained to kill).

Now, you have a population under occupation, that is not allowed to have weapons to defend themselves, against the most militarized nation on the planet.​

 

[Billo_Really]

Probably. I wouldn't want to wind up fish food.

You won't have to worry about that, when you think about Israel's standard practice of shooting at people fishing.

 

[Challenger]

Maybe the Jews should not have stolen the land from the Christians and Muslims that were living on it. Don't you think.

The Jews didn't steal anything from anyone.

The problem with distilling 100 years of history into 11 minutes, is that you miss out the remaining 52,560,000 (approx) minutes...

 

[Challenger]

They'll leave if they get an offer they can't refuse.

Would you?

Probably. I wouldn't want to wind up fish food.

You therefore agree the Zionists drove the indigenous Palestinians from their homes.