Heated disagreement breaks out in Situation Room over hydroxychloroquine, Navarro vs Fauci

Hutch Starskey

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Our new cases continue to grow, dope.
NO ONE has said they would not. It is a PANDEMIC, we have taken monumental steps to slow the growth and that is WORKING, much to your disappointment. Why do you want tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent people to die?
Great.
It's still growing, dope. They will continue to grow for quite a while. While NY may be reaching an apex, other states will not for months.
 

Hutch Starskey

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Slow the spread?
Our number of infected is more than double that of the next highest nation and we started later than them. Get real.


As I said, the only figures that matter are the Deaths/1M pop, which I have provided for you along with the link so you will not continue to be so ignorant of the subject.



Do you actually believe the figures coming out of China, Iran, and others? How quaint!
As I said, the only figures that matter are the Deaths/1M pop,
You said "the spread", dope.
Keep drinking that piss.
And, due to the superior care and availability of care in the United States, relatively few are dying. Why do you hate such great results?

Great.
That doesn't change what you stated and that I responded to.
 

byhisello99

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You don't have to accept our word for it, you simply have to google the side effects of this drug. This drug is an immuno-suppressant. Unless your immune system has gone into dangerous overdrive, which only happens in the late and deadly stage of the disease, taking the drug can harm you. If you have any sort of heart condition, it can kill you.

Because of the dangers and the side effects, this is not a drug you give for "preventative measures". All of this information is readily available if you google.
Google is now an accepted substitute for medical school and clinical experience. Good to know.

In discussions with internists and ID specialists, I'm told that the drug interferes with the virus penetrating a cell wall. In discussions with medical scientists, I'm told that the drug reduces viral load. No google needed, just comprehension and an open mind.

Any sort of heart condition? Not according to my cardiologist and five of his colleagues with whom I discussed the matter. The specific problem is interruption of a steady heartbeat with tachycardia or brachycardia, which is usually not a serious matter and is found only in <2% of patients taking the drug.

You're not quite right about the dangerous overdrive bit. There are many components to the immune system; two are a problem because one creates a cytokine storm, rapidly filling the lungs, and another creates serious inflammation in elastic lung walls, preventing their expansion and contraction (e.g., breathing). Once that has begun it's almost always too late.
 

DBA

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You don't have to accept our word for it, you simply have to google the side effects of this drug. This drug is an immuno-suppressant. Unless your immune system has gone into dangerous overdrive, which only happens in the late and deadly stage of the disease, taking the drug can harm you. If you have any sort of heart condition, it can kill you.

Because of the dangers and the side effects, this is not a drug you give for "preventative measures". All of this information is readily available if you google.
Google is now an accepted substitute for medical school and clinical experience. Good to know.

In discussions with internists and ID specialists, I'm told that the drug interferes with the virus penetrating a cell wall. In discussions with medical scientists, I'm told that the drug reduces viral load. No google needed, just comprehension and an open mind.

Any sort of heart condition? Not according to my cardiologist and five of his colleagues with whom I discussed the matter. The specific problem is interruption of a steady heartbeat with tachycardia or brachycardia, which is usually not a serious matter and is found only in <2% of patients taking the drug.

You're not quite right about the dangerous overdrive bit. There are many components to the immune system; two are a problem because one creates a cytokine storm, rapidly filling the lungs, and another creates serious inflammation in elastic lung walls, preventing their expansion and contraction (e.g., breathing). Once that has begun it's almost always too late.
Physicians throughout the world are using this medicine. These Internet yahoo Democrats think they are experts after watching CNN. It is a sad, uninformed world we live in.
 

Dragonlady

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You don't have to accept our word for it, you simply have to google the side effects of this drug. This drug is an immuno-suppressant. Unless your immune system has gone into dangerous overdrive, which only happens in the late and deadly stage of the disease, taking the drug can harm you. If you have any sort of heart condition, it can kill you.

Because of the dangers and the side effects, this is not a drug you give for "preventative measures". All of this information is readily available if you google.
Google is now an accepted substitute for medical school and clinical experience. Good to know.

In discussions with internists and ID specialists, I'm told that the drug interferes with the virus penetrating a cell wall. In discussions with medical scientists, I'm told that the drug reduces viral load. No google needed, just comprehension and an open mind.

Any sort of heart condition? Not according to my cardiologist and five of his colleagues with whom I discussed the matter. The specific problem is interruption of a steady heartbeat with tachycardia or brachycardia, which is usually not a serious matter and is found only in <2% of patients taking the drug.

You're not quite right about the dangerous overdrive bit. There are many components to the immune system; two are a problem because one creates a cytokine storm, rapidly filling the lungs, and another creates serious inflammation in elastic lung walls, preventing their expansion and contraction (e.g., breathing). Once that has begun it's almost always too late.
I have had no need or concerns to burden my medical practioners with useless questions. If I were to get ill, I have every confidence in my medical professionals, who know my underlying conditions, not to give me drugs which are contra-indicated. Nor do I ever attempt to use google for medical diagnosis. However I do use it to get general information through scientific websites.

I still would never take a drug that Donald Trump suggested, or follow any of his recommendations because he is the most distrustful person in the world. He isn't a President for the people, he's the President for himself and fuck everyone else.

I love how Trump keeps touting all the equipment that has "landed" in the USA, all while the medical staff at all of the hot spots are still begging for PPE's. All this PPE equipment on airports tarmacs isn't doing the health care workers any good until it gets to them.
 

DBA

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No, not a single physician has EVER said Hydroxychloroquinine has at all been useful against any virus.
It is useful in problems with an over active immune system ONLY, like lupus, arthritis, etc.
And with some people with a bad case of COVID-19, it is the immune system response that is the most harmful, so then at that time and place, it is possible for Hydroxychloroquinine to be helpful. But it won't prevent or change the COVID-19 virus in any way.
You are SO uninformed. I posted this yesterday and will do so again I have this information from a very informed source, NOT Google.

Plaquenil or hydroxychlorquine acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection. The Z pack is there just in case you got a bacterial infection because your lungs are inflamed and raw. We are colonized with bacteria in our sinuses, so it would be easy to get a superimposed bacterial infection if the lungs are inflamed.

There is a reason doctors around the globe are prescribing this medicine. They understand the inner workings much better than the average CNN or MSNBC reporter. Unfortunately for all of us, even some physicians are so adverse to Trump and anything he says, they will give inaccurate information to the media, all the while prescribing the medicine to each other just in case.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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No, not a single physician has EVER said Hydroxychloroquinine has at all been useful against any virus.
It is useful in problems with an over active immune system ONLY, like lupus, arthritis, etc.
And with some people with a bad case of COVID-19, it is the immune system response that is the most harmful, so then at that time and place, it is possible for Hydroxychloroquinine to be helpful. But it won't prevent or change the COVID-19 virus in any way.
You are SO uninformed. I posted this yesterday and will do so again I have this information from a very informed source, NOT Google.

Plaquenil or hydroxychlorquine acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection. The Z pack is there just in case you got a bacterial infection because your lungs are inflamed and raw. We are colonized with bacteria in our sinuses, so it would be easy to get a superimposed bacterial infection if the lungs are inflamed.

There is a reason doctors around the globe are prescribing this medicine. They understand the inner workings much better than the average CNN or MSNBC reporter. Unfortunately for all of us, even some physicians are so adverse to Trump and anything he says, they will give inaccurate information to the media, all the while prescribing the medicine to each other just in case.
Such bullshit.
 

DBA

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No, not a single physician has EVER said Hydroxychloroquinine has at all been useful against any virus.
It is useful in problems with an over active immune system ONLY, like lupus, arthritis, etc.
And with some people with a bad case of COVID-19, it is the immune system response that is the most harmful, so then at that time and place, it is possible for Hydroxychloroquinine to be helpful. But it won't prevent or change the COVID-19 virus in any way.
You are SO uninformed. I posted this yesterday and will do so again I have this information from a very informed source, NOT Google.

Plaquenil or hydroxychlorquine acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection. The Z pack is there just in case you got a bacterial infection because your lungs are inflamed and raw. We are colonized with bacteria in our sinuses, so it would be easy to get a superimposed bacterial infection if the lungs are inflamed.

There is a reason doctors around the globe are prescribing this medicine. They understand the inner workings much better than the average CNN or MSNBC reporter. Unfortunately for all of us, even some physicians are so adverse to Trump and anything he says, they will give inaccurate information to the media, all the while prescribing the medicine to each other just in case.
Such bullshit.
I read you previous post. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I would love for you to discuss this with my contact. They would have a field day with you.

Alas, I don't really care. You will be proven incorrect in short order. Start getting your excuses ready now.
 

Siete

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No, not a single physician has EVER said Hydroxychloroquinine has at all been useful against any virus.
It is useful in problems with an over active immune system ONLY, like lupus, arthritis, etc.
And with some people with a bad case of COVID-19, it is the immune system response that is the most harmful, so then at that time and place, it is possible for Hydroxychloroquinine to be helpful. But it won't prevent or change the COVID-19 virus in any way.
You are SO uninformed. I posted this yesterday and will do so again I have this information from a very informed source, NOT Google.

Plaquenil or hydroxychlorquine acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection. The Z pack is there just in case you got a bacterial infection because your lungs are inflamed and raw. We are colonized with bacteria in our sinuses, so it would be easy to get a superimposed bacterial infection if the lungs are inflamed.

There is a reason doctors around the globe are prescribing this medicine. They understand the inner workings much better than the average CNN or MSNBC reporter. Unfortunately for all of us, even some physicians are so adverse to Trump and anything he says, they will give inaccurate information to the media, all the while prescribing the medicine to each other just in case.
Such bullshit.
none of these pukes bother to mention antibody treatment because it didnt fly out of trumps fat ass -

not to mention its more effective than mosquito dope.

Synthetic antibodies might offer a quick coronavirus treatment


This could be beneficial to first responders and health care workers on the frontlines fighting the disease. Also, it could potentially be used as a treatment in patients who are already sick, who would get no benefit from a vaccine. Finally, it could be used in immunocompromised patients who have trouble producing an immune response to a vaccine
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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No, not a single physician has EVER said Hydroxychloroquinine has at all been useful against any virus.
It is useful in problems with an over active immune system ONLY, like lupus, arthritis, etc.
And with some people with a bad case of COVID-19, it is the immune system response that is the most harmful, so then at that time and place, it is possible for Hydroxychloroquinine to be helpful. But it won't prevent or change the COVID-19 virus in any way.
You are SO uninformed. I posted this yesterday and will do so again I have this information from a very informed source, NOT Google.

Plaquenil or hydroxychlorquine acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection. The Z pack is there just in case you got a bacterial infection because your lungs are inflamed and raw. We are colonized with bacteria in our sinuses, so it would be easy to get a superimposed bacterial infection if the lungs are inflamed.

There is a reason doctors around the globe are prescribing this medicine. They understand the inner workings much better than the average CNN or MSNBC reporter. Unfortunately for all of us, even some physicians are so adverse to Trump and anything he says, they will give inaccurate information to the media, all the while prescribing the medicine to each other just in case.
Such bullshit.
I read you previous post. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I would love for you to discuss this with my contact. They would have a field day with you.

Alas, I don't really care. You will be proven incorrect in short order. Start getting your excuses ready now.
I was referring to your last few sentences. Utter garbage.
 

justinacolmena

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the efficacy of the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine
That's a tropical disease. People are black. I couldn't tell whether they are dying of malaria, from hydroxychloroquine, from an overdose of gin and tonic as prescribed, or from some other method of mass murder imposed by MSF or WHO doctors in white coats. Just another cock-and-bull story like the Ebola virus which was claimed by white nurses to remain in the eyeballs and testicles of black male patients after recovery.
 

DBA

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No, not a single physician has EVER said Hydroxychloroquinine has at all been useful against any virus.
It is useful in problems with an over active immune system ONLY, like lupus, arthritis, etc.
And with some people with a bad case of COVID-19, it is the immune system response that is the most harmful, so then at that time and place, it is possible for Hydroxychloroquinine to be helpful. But it won't prevent or change the COVID-19 virus in any way.
You are SO uninformed. I posted this yesterday and will do so again I have this information from a very informed source, NOT Google.

Plaquenil or hydroxychlorquine acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection. The Z pack is there just in case you got a bacterial infection because your lungs are inflamed and raw. We are colonized with bacteria in our sinuses, so it would be easy to get a superimposed bacterial infection if the lungs are inflamed.

There is a reason doctors around the globe are prescribing this medicine. They understand the inner workings much better than the average CNN or MSNBC reporter. Unfortunately for all of us, even some physicians are so adverse to Trump and anything he says, they will give inaccurate information to the media, all the while prescribing the medicine to each other just in case.
Such bullshit.
none of these pukes bother to mention antibody treatment because it didnt fly out of trumps fat ass -

not to mention its more effective than mosquito dope.

Synthetic antibodies might offer a quick coronavirus treatment
Trump appointed a guy to look into this already. Where have you been?
 

DBA

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No, not a single physician has EVER said Hydroxychloroquinine has at all been useful against any virus.
It is useful in problems with an over active immune system ONLY, like lupus, arthritis, etc.
And with some people with a bad case of COVID-19, it is the immune system response that is the most harmful, so then at that time and place, it is possible for Hydroxychloroquinine to be helpful. But it won't prevent or change the COVID-19 virus in any way.
You are SO uninformed. I posted this yesterday and will do so again I have this information from a very informed source, NOT Google.

Plaquenil or hydroxychlorquine acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection. The Z pack is there just in case you got a bacterial infection because your lungs are inflamed and raw. We are colonized with bacteria in our sinuses, so it would be easy to get a superimposed bacterial infection if the lungs are inflamed.

There is a reason doctors around the globe are prescribing this medicine. They understand the inner workings much better than the average CNN or MSNBC reporter. Unfortunately for all of us, even some physicians are so adverse to Trump and anything he says, they will give inaccurate information to the media, all the while prescribing the medicine to each other just in case.
Such bullshit.
I read you previous post. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I would love for you to discuss this with my contact. They would have a field day with you.

Alas, I don't really care. You will be proven incorrect in short order. Start getting your excuses ready now.
I was referring to your last few sentences. Utter garbage.
If you don't think politics enters into medicine you don't know medicine. It shouldn't matter, but many are too partisan to separate the two. As for CNN and MSNBC, give me a break. They spin everything.
 

Siete

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No, not a single physician has EVER said Hydroxychloroquinine has at all been useful against any virus.
It is useful in problems with an over active immune system ONLY, like lupus, arthritis, etc.
And with some people with a bad case of COVID-19, it is the immune system response that is the most harmful, so then at that time and place, it is possible for Hydroxychloroquinine to be helpful. But it won't prevent or change the COVID-19 virus in any way.
You are SO uninformed. I posted this yesterday and will do so again I have this information from a very informed source, NOT Google.

Plaquenil or hydroxychlorquine acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection. The Z pack is there just in case you got a bacterial infection because your lungs are inflamed and raw. We are colonized with bacteria in our sinuses, so it would be easy to get a superimposed bacterial infection if the lungs are inflamed.

There is a reason doctors around the globe are prescribing this medicine. They understand the inner workings much better than the average CNN or MSNBC reporter. Unfortunately for all of us, even some physicians are so adverse to Trump and anything he says, they will give inaccurate information to the media, all the while prescribing the medicine to each other just in case.
Such bullshit.
none of these pukes bother to mention antibody treatment because it didnt fly out of trumps fat ass -

not to mention its more effective than mosquito dope.

Synthetic antibodies might offer a quick coronavirus treatment
Trump appointed a guy to look into this already. Where have you been?

reading your horseshit about mosquito dope - u dope.

ask "your source" about giving malaria drugs to people with high blood pressure problems and heart disease - like older people have more often than not -
 

Siete

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antibody treatment -

It also is effective immediately, Glanville said. “With a vaccine, that shot has little pieces of the virus in it, and so when you get injected with it, your immune system starts to learn how to attack those pieces of the virus, and that takes time; that takes many weeks, might be six or seven weeks before you have protection with an antibody. With a therapeutic, that syringe or IV bag contains the antibodies directly. So when they infuse it into you, your body doesn't need to do anything.”

UNLIKE MOSQUITO DOPE -
 

justinacolmena

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Given that fact that Trump and his team did essentially nothing until March 13th
Most likely because Trump was stonewalled by the sham impeachment.
As if dropping these drugs from the sky will magically cure the virus.
Now I'm starting to wonder if such highly desirable "drugs" are not for recreational rather than medical use, and the Democrats aren't getting their "fix" from the Trump administration as they were accustomed to under Barack Obama.
 

Seawytch

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Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.
Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.
Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.
From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.
Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.
Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.
No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.
It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.
The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.
It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.
I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?
what exactly is your first hand knowledge?
I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?
The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?
There are reports of people who claim shark fin soup has cured them. If Trump had stock in Shark Fin Soup, he'd probably be touting THAT at his mini rallies, er, press briefings.

And, no, that's not all Trump has said. He said "what have you got to lose". Well, according to doctors, you could lose your life.
 

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