Health-Care “Reform”: It’s All About Power

[Oddball]

by Sheldon Richman, November 13, 2009

If the politicians who are bent on redesigning the medical and medical-insurance industries really wanted only to curb rising prices and help the uninsured get coverage, they would have zeroed in on the previous government interventions that created those problems. Instead, they are pushing grand schemes to turn our medical decision-making over to bureaucrats. That indicates that the so-called reform campaign is about power.

<snip>

This has been called a failure of the free market, but that can&#8217;t be: There is no free market. I defy the advocates of government control to name one aspect of medicine or insurance that government doesn&#8217;t dominate.

<snip>

If politicians really cared about high costs and lack of choice, they would neutralize coverage mandates by removing the federal ban on interstate insurance sales. Then a resident of a high-mandate state, such as California, could buy a policy offered in a low-mandate, such as Arizona.

Full text at Future Freedom Foundation

 

[mudwhistle]

by Sheldon Richman, November 13, 2009

If the politicians who are bent on redesigning the medical and medical-insurance industries really wanted only to curb rising prices and help the uninsured get coverage, they would have zeroed in on the previous government interventions that created those problems. Instead, they are pushing grand schemes to turn our medical decision-making over to bureaucrats. That indicates that the so-called reform campaign is about power.

<snip>

This has been called a failure of the free market, but that can’t be: There is no free market. I defy the advocates of government control to name one aspect of medicine or insurance that government doesn’t dominate.

<snip>

If politicians really cared about high costs and lack of choice, they would neutralize coverage mandates by removing the federal ban on interstate insurance sales. Then a resident of a high-mandate state, such as California, could buy a policy offered in a low-mandate, such as Arizona.

Full text at Future Freedom Foundation

Sorry...Obama put the Kabash on that idea last week.

Nope...this is about controlling our lives...not providing health care to those who don't have any.

 

[WillowTree]

You know DeMint has uncovered language in the bill that prohibits future congress' from altering the Medicare "death panels"

 

[Oddball]

Also unconstitutional as hell.

But I'm pretty much over any expectation that demopublicraticans give a hoot in hell about anything so trivial as restraint within constitutional bounds.

 

[sealybobo]

Also unconstitutional as hell.

But I'm pretty much over any expectation that demopublicraticans give a hoot in hell about anything so trivial as restraint within constitutional bounds.

The current healthcare bill doesn't do enough, but it does have some good in it. Hopefully us Democrats will be able to improve on it in the upcoming year, while we have the 60 votes. Hopefully we gain seats next year so guys like Lieberman become irrelivent.

We need Medicare for all. Single Payer. Public Option. The same shit our grandparents have, we should be able to purchase. Its the only thing that will lower the prices of Blue Cross & HAP and the others.

If it weren't for Republicans and Blue Dogs like Lieberman, the Healthcare bill would be good. But its just a pay off to the insurance giants. They'll make even more money with this bill. But its better than what Bush or McCain or Romney would do, which is NOTHING.

So you right wingers should be happy. Corporations win again. Capitalism as you call it wins! They don't produce jack shit by the way. Insurance company CEO's are just skimming your money. That's all they do. And you defend them ripping you and your company off. You don't even realize how much your insurance costs. Sucker.

 

[Oddball]

You don't even know what's in the bill, you boob.

In fact, one of its main provisions requires people to purchase the product of those eeeeevil corporate insurers you detest so much....Schmuck.

 

[mudwhistle]

Also unconstitutional as hell.

But I'm pretty much over any expectation that demopublicraticans give a hoot in hell about anything so trivial as restraint within constitutional bounds.

The current healthcare bill doesn't do enough, but it does have some good in it. Hopefully us Democrats will be able to improve on it in the upcoming year, while we have the 60 votes. Hopefully we gain seats next year so guys like Lieberman become irrelivent.

Problem with Democrat bills is there's so much crap in them that it cancels out any good they do.

We need Medicare for all. Single Payer. Public Option. The same shit our grandparents have, we should be able to purchase. Its the only thing that will lower the prices of Blue Cross & HAP and the others.

Yes....we need another bankrupt program to cover the rest of us.

If it weren't for Republicans and Blue Dogs like Lieberman, the Healthcare bill would be good. But its just a pay off to the insurance giants. They'll make even more money with this bill. But its better than what Bush or McCain or Romney would do, which is NOTHING.

So you right wingers should be happy. Corporations win again. Capitalism as you call it wins! They don't produce jack shit by the way. Insurance company CEO's are just skimming your money. That's all they do. And you defend them ripping you and your company off. You don't even realize how much your insurance costs. Sucker.

Blame it on the Repugs. Seriously....they have zero say in what's in the thing. Zilch. The damned thing isn't even law and the friggen excuses are already beginning

 

[Truthmatters]

Im sure none of you will ever use the preexsisting condition ban or the coverage until age 26 for your kids medical care.

You will refuse it on principle huh?

 

[rdean]

This should be in the conspiracy section. The right always thinks "government" wants to "take over". That there is this big, giant "government" that wants to pounce on their lives and make them slaves.

The truth is, "Nobody cares about them". And that is ALSO the problem.

Health care reform should be about ALL the American people, one, getting coverage, and two, not getting fleeced. That's it. That is the entire problem and solution.

The REAL problems:

1. The insurance companies have way too many lobbyists.
2. The bill is way to slanted towards the insurance companies (just the fact that their stock went UP demonstrates that)
3. Republicans pulled every dirty trick in the book to stop any kind of reform, not because they think health care reform is bad, but becuase they hate this president and will gladly sacrifice the country to bring him down.
4. Worst of all, the Democratic Senator from Nebraska started something. For his vote, Nebraska gets free Medicaid - FOREVER. (that is probably not constitutional. I'm suprised no one is talking about it. States can't be favored that way) This is corruption, plain and simple.

This comes from people that are desparate to pass something that in the future can be built upon. No help from Republicans. Could you imagine the bill if they actually supported reform? The next time Republicans get a majority, it will probably be repealed and whatever they put into place will really screw us royally. Even worse than what they did making two wars, bankrupting the economy and leaving us with the Katrina aftermath. But hey, they stopped gay marriage, mostly - and that affects us all, right?

 

[veritas]

Given the choice between commercial health insurance and a government program, I think most people would opt for the public program. That's the main sticking point. The politicians know it. If there were a true and open public option, people would vote with their premiums. Attrition of the commercial health insurance companies would happen quickly.

The way it is now, commercial insurance is tied to employment. This translates into a "company store" arrangement for the big corps and the insurance companies and of course, our rotten Congress.

 

[rdean]

Also unconstitutional as hell.

But I'm pretty much over any expectation that demopublicraticans give a hoot in hell about anything so trivial as restraint within constitutional bounds.

The current healthcare bill doesn't do enough, but it does have some good in it. Hopefully us Democrats will be able to improve on it in the upcoming year, while we have the 60 votes. Hopefully we gain seats next year so guys like Lieberman become irrelivent.

Problem with Democrat bills is there's so much crap in them that it cancels out any good they do.

We need Medicare for all. Single Payer. Public Option. The same shit our grandparents have, we should be able to purchase. Its the only thing that will lower the prices of Blue Cross & HAP and the others.

Yes....we need another bankrupt program to cover the rest of us.

If it weren't for Republicans and Blue Dogs like Lieberman, the Healthcare bill would be good. But its just a pay off to the insurance giants. They'll make even more money with this bill. But its better than what Bush or McCain or Romney would do, which is NOTHING.

So you right wingers should be happy. Corporations win again. Capitalism as you call it wins! They don't produce jack shit by the way. Insurance company CEO's are just skimming your money. That's all they do. And you defend them ripping you and your company off. You don't even realize how much your insurance costs. Sucker.

Blame it on the Repugs. Seriously....they have zero say in what's in the thing. BULL FUCKING SHIT AND YOU KNOW IT Zilch. The damned thing isn't even law and the friggen excuses are already beginning

..

 

[sealybobo]

You don't even know what's in the bill, you boob.

In fact, one of its main provisions requires people to purchase the product of those eeeeevil corporate insurers you detest so much....Schmuck.

Bet that gets taken out. OR

If they leave it in, then bet they offer a really cheap public option that poor people can buy into.

I'll buy into medicare for $100 a month if I'm unemployed.

That'll take COBRA off the corporations plates.

Chances are the Dems will sneak something into the bill in the wee hours of the morning, while you are sleeping. Hopefully Lieberman doesn't find out because he won't sign anything with a public option.

Neither will any of the Republicans. So if you want a good healthcare bill, start leaning on your right wingers and blue dogs.

You right wingers want it both ways. You should be happy the insurance companies are going to do well off this. Isn't that your whole schtick?

See, you want this to be a failure no matter what, so no one cares what you think.

Its better than no reform at all. Obama needs a win. THIS YEAR!!!

 

[sealybobo]

Also unconstitutional as hell.

But I'm pretty much over any expectation that demopublicraticans give a hoot in hell about anything so trivial as restraint within constitutional bounds.

The current healthcare bill doesn't do enough, but it does have some good in it. Hopefully us Democrats will be able to improve on it in the upcoming year, while we have the 60 votes. Hopefully we gain seats next year so guys like Lieberman become irrelivent.

Problem with Democrat bills is there's so much crap in them that it cancels out any good they do.

We need Medicare for all. Single Payer. Public Option. The same shit our grandparents have, we should be able to purchase. Its the only thing that will lower the prices of Blue Cross & HAP and the others.

Yes....we need another bankrupt program to cover the rest of us.

If it weren't for Republicans and Blue Dogs like Lieberman, the Healthcare bill would be good. But its just a pay off to the insurance giants. They'll make even more money with this bill. But its better than what Bush or McCain or Romney would do, which is NOTHING.

So you right wingers should be happy. Corporations win again. Capitalism as you call it wins! They don't produce jack shit by the way. Insurance company CEO's are just skimming your money. That's all they do. And you defend them ripping you and your company off. You don't even realize how much your insurance costs. Sucker.

Blame it on the Repugs. Seriously....they have zero say in what's in the thing. Zilch. The damned thing isn't even law and the friggen excuses are already beginning

So you want us to give the GOP a pass on voting no to everything the Dems want to do?

Yes, the GOP has zero say in what goes in the bill. But they do get to vote yes or no, should they stop filabustering long enough to vote.

You just want me to blame the Lieberman's and Blue Dogs? NOT!

So should we vote GOP next year because the Dems have a handful of corrupt blue dogs who now like the Republicans are taking money from the insurance companies? NO! We should replace those Blue Dogs in the primaries. And, we should elect more progressives to the Senate like Al Franken.

Don't expect us to forget that the GOP are the enemy of the American people. The GOP stands on the side of the insurance companies.

And we have to bribe them with your tax dollars to get them to go along with anything we want to do.

And don't cry about the healthcare bill. Its better than your solutions, which are none.

 

[Old Rocks]

by Sheldon Richman, November 13, 2009

If the politicians who are bent on redesigning the medical and medical-insurance industries really wanted only to curb rising prices and help the uninsured get coverage, they would have zeroed in on the previous government interventions that created those problems. Instead, they are pushing grand schemes to turn our medical decision-making over to bureaucrats. That indicates that the so-called reform campaign is about power.

<snip>

This has been called a failure of the free market, but that can’t be: There is no free market. I defy the advocates of government control to name one aspect of medicine or insurance that government doesn’t dominate.

<snip>

If politicians really cared about high costs and lack of choice, they would neutralize coverage mandates by removing the federal ban on interstate insurance sales. Then a resident of a high-mandate state, such as California, could buy a policy offered in a low-mandate, such as Arizona.

Full text at Future Freedom Foundation

Damned right that it is about power. The power to make the American Citizen pay twice as much for an inferior product compared to other industrail nations. The power of CEOs of the health care industry to steal billions from Medicare and Medicaid. The power for them to get salaries of tens of millions annually for denying care to those that have paid them for the insurance.

Yessiree, Doooodeee...., old fool, it is about power, and the first steps to remove the power of the thieves that are presently preying on the American Citizenery.

 

[Old Rocks]

You know DeMint has uncovered language in the bill that prohibits future congress' from altering the Medicare "death panels"

Egad!!!!!! death panels. Quick call the dumb bitch from Alaska.

 

[PixieStix]

They should be arrested

 

[AVG-JOE]

Also unconstitutional as hell.

But I'm pretty much over any expectation that demopublicraticans give a hoot in hell about anything so trivial as restraint within constitutional bounds.

The current healthcare bill doesn't do enough, but it does have some good in it. Hopefully us Democrats will be able to improve on it in the upcoming year, while we have the 60 votes. Hopefully we gain seats next year so guys like Lieberman become irrelivent.

We need Medicare for all. Single Payer. Public Option. The same shit our grandparents have, we should be able to purchase. Its the only thing that will lower the prices of Blue Cross & HAP and the others.

If it weren't for Republicans and Blue Dogs like Lieberman, the Healthcare bill would be good. But its just a pay off to the insurance giants. They'll make even more money with this bill. But its better than what Bush or McCain or Romney would do, which is NOTHING.

So you right wingers should be happy. Corporations win again. Capitalism as you call it wins! They don't produce jack shit by the way. Insurance company CEO's are just skimming your money. That's all they do. And you defend them ripping you and your company off. You don't even realize how much your insurance costs. Sucker.

You don't even know what's in the bill, you boob.

In fact, one of its main provisions requires people to purchase the product of those eeeeevil corporate insurers you detest so much....Schmuck.

You're both right.

Well maybe / maybe not about sealy being a boob... First of all you're inflection makes 'boob' sound bad...?

The only thing we can be certain of is that 100 years from now, things will be at least as different as they were 100 years ago.

Some day, Ass-U-Me-ing nobody nukes anyone, our children will pool their health care funds in some way shape or form that we, today would call a 'public option', paying a reasonable amount to the bureaucrats who run the damn thing and they will wonder what the fuss was all about.

Until then it is going to get worked on starting right now.

To Bitch or To Build?​

Decisions, decisions.​

 

[sealybobo]

Also unconstitutional as hell.

But I'm pretty much over any expectation that demopublicraticans give a hoot in hell about anything so trivial as restraint within constitutional bounds.

The current healthcare bill doesn't do enough, but it does have some good in it. Hopefully us Democrats will be able to improve on it in the upcoming year, while we have the 60 votes. Hopefully we gain seats next year so guys like Lieberman become irrelivent.

We need Medicare for all. Single Payer. Public Option. The same shit our grandparents have, we should be able to purchase. Its the only thing that will lower the prices of Blue Cross & HAP and the others.

If it weren't for Republicans and Blue Dogs like Lieberman, the Healthcare bill would be good. But its just a pay off to the insurance giants. They'll make even more money with this bill. But its better than what Bush or McCain or Romney would do, which is NOTHING.

So you right wingers should be happy. Corporations win again. Capitalism as you call it wins! They don't produce jack shit by the way. Insurance company CEO's are just skimming your money. That's all they do. And you defend them ripping you and your company off. You don't even realize how much your insurance costs. Sucker.

You don't even know what's in the bill, you boob.

In fact, one of its main provisions requires people to purchase the product of those eeeeevil corporate insurers you detest so much....Schmuck.

You're both right.

Well maybe / maybe not about sealy being a boob... First of all you're inflection makes 'boob' sound bad...?

The only thing we can be certain of is that 100 years from now, things will be at least as different as they were 100 years ago.

Some day, Ass-U-Me-ing nobody nukes anyone, our children will pool their health care funds in some way shape or form that we, today would call a 'public option', paying a reasonable amount to the bureaucrats who run the damn thing and they will wonder what the fuss was all about.

Until then it is going to get worked on starting right now.

To Bitch or To Build?​

Decisions, decisions.​

You're a wise man. Very true.

a. The current bill sucks, and there are Democrats in the Senate responsible for the public option being taken out. But that doesn't mean Democrats are as bad as Republicans. It means SOME Democrats are as bad as the Republicans. So I won't vote for those Democrats. But I still prefer the Democratic Agenda over the GOP agenda.

b. Healthcare the way it is isn't sustainable. Costs too much GDP and too many people get screwed with the current system.

c. Republicans have/had zero interest in solving this and every other problem. Like every other problem, they denied it was a problem for as long as they could. Then they fight every idea on how to fix the problems, yet they add no solutions themselves. Not unless you count TORT REFORM as a solution. Reminds me of jobs going overseas. They know its a problem, but watch them fight the Dems next year when we try to bring jobs back home. They'll show you they care more about capitalism than they do the American middle class.

d. Even though private for profit corporations are the problem here, I am not against capitalism. I'm just against an unregulated healthcare industry. If the Dems can force the healthcare giants to cut their prices in half, I don't care about a public option. Same as I don't care if we socialize our oil companies. I just don't want to pay $4 a gallon for gas. Is that so wrong?

So we'll celebrate the good that is in the current bill and we'll build on it. We'll take it one issue at a time if we have to. And then the GOP and Blue Dogs can argue why they are in favor of pre existing conditions and denying people coverage. They can defend why we pay more for perscription drugs than Canada does. Etc.

 

[jeffrockit]

This should be in the conspiracy section. The right always thinks "government" wants to "take over". That there is this big, giant "government" that wants to pounce on their lives and make them slaves.

The truth is, "Nobody cares about them". And that is ALSO the problem.

Health care reform should be about ALL the American people, one, getting coverage, and two, not getting fleeced. That's it. That is the entire problem and solution.

The REAL problems:

1. The insurance companies have way too many lobbyists.
2. The bill is way to slanted towards the insurance companies (just the fact that their stock went UP demonstrates that)
3. Republicans pulled every dirty trick in the book to stop any kind of reform, not because they think health care reform is bad, but becuase they hate this president and will gladly sacrifice the country to bring him down.
4. Worst of all, the Democratic Senator from Nebraska started something. For his vote, Nebraska gets free Medicaid - FOREVER. (that is probably not constitutional. I'm suprised no one is talking about it. States can't be favored that way) This is corruption, plain and simple.

This comes from people that are desparate to pass something that in the future can be built upon. No help from Republicans. Could you imagine the bill if they actually supported reform? The next time Republicans get a majority, it will probably be repealed and whatever they put into place will really screw us royally. Even worse than what they did making two wars, bankrupting the economy and leaving us with the Katrina aftermath. But hey, they stopped gay marriage, mostly - and that affects us all, right?

Obama is against gay marriage but nice try.

Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."
Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.

 

[jeffrockit]

The current healthcare bill doesn't do enough, but it does have some good in it. Hopefully us Democrats will be able to improve on it in the upcoming year, while we have the 60 votes. Hopefully we gain seats next year so guys like Lieberman become irrelivent.

We need Medicare for all. Single Payer. Public Option. The same shit our grandparents have, we should be able to purchase. Its the only thing that will lower the prices of Blue Cross & HAP and the others.

If it weren't for Republicans and Blue Dogs like Lieberman, the Healthcare bill would be good. But its just a pay off to the insurance giants. They'll make even more money with this bill. But its better than what Bush or McCain or Romney would do, which is NOTHING.

So you right wingers should be happy. Corporations win again. Capitalism as you call it wins! They don't produce jack shit by the way. Insurance company CEO's are just skimming your money. That's all they do. And you defend them ripping you and your company off. You don't even realize how much your insurance costs. Sucker.

You don't even know what's in the bill, you boob.

In fact, one of its main provisions requires people to purchase the product of those eeeeevil corporate insurers you detest so much....Schmuck.

You're both right.

Well maybe / maybe not about sealy being a boob... First of all you're inflection makes 'boob' sound bad...?

The only thing we can be certain of is that 100 years from now, things will be at least as different as they were 100 years ago.

Some day, Ass-U-Me-ing nobody nukes anyone, our children will pool their health care funds in some way shape or form that we, today would call a 'public option', paying a reasonable amount to the bureaucrats who run the damn thing and they will wonder what the fuss was all about.

Until then it is going to get worked on starting right now.

To Bitch or To Build?​

Decisions, decisions.​

You're a wise man. Very true.

a. The current bill sucks, and there are Democrats in the Senate responsible for the public option being taken out. But that doesn't mean Democrats are as bad as Republicans. It means SOME Democrats are as bad as the Republicans. So I won't vote for those Democrats. But I still prefer the Democratic Agenda over the GOP agenda.

b. Healthcare the way it is isn't sustainable. Costs too much GDP and too many people get screwed with the current system.

c. Republicans have/had zero interest in solving this and every other problem. Like every other problem, they denied it was a problem for as long as they could. Then they fight every idea on how to fix the problems, yet they add no solutions themselves. Not unless you count TORT REFORM as a solution. Reminds me of jobs going overseas. They know its a problem, but watch them fight the Dems next year when we try to bring jobs back home. They'll show you they care more about capitalism than they do the American middle class.

In response to you C. that I bolded:

Open Left:: All 91 Senate Health Care Amendments

Republicans tried to pass 91 amendments to the HC bill and every one was shot down by Dems. Now that is truly playing partisan politics. You should probably do a little research before you state something that is completely untrue.