Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And who pays for those services the people demand, the people.

of course its treasonous and subversive to use democracy as theft. THe top 1% pay 40% of income tax while the people (botton 45%) pay 0% taxes or nothing!


"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

 

[regent]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work. The evidence from the VA indicates that more vets want to be admitted to the VA health care programs, too many for their budget. But none of that is my argument, I'm saying that if the American people want a health care program, America will have health care program--maybe during your lifetime.

Unable to work? Bullshit. Unless you're paralyzed from the neck down or institutionalized in a wraparound jacket, I don't buy that "unable to work" garbage. Oh, you may not be able to do the job you WANT to do, but there are still ALWAYS jobs out there that can be done.

It really is a matter of the spoiled brat syndrome manifesting itself in elder years.

In generations past, that was never the case. If you worked as a farmer, you were working the farm, cleaning stalls, pitching hay, and tilling the ground up until your 70s. That was normal. That was how life was.

Harland Sanders didn't even start Kentucky Fried Chicken, until age 62, and he worked his butt off for years until 1972 when he sold it for $2 Million dollars.

But no no, we're 60 years old and that entitles us to sit on our ass, and have everyone else pay for everything we have.

I had the feeling that America has always had poor and disabled and that was the reason for the County poor farms and such. But my argument that if the American people decide they want health care, we will have health care still stands and it doesn't matter that Harland Sanders made chicken.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

if the American people decide they want health care, we will have health care still stands and it doesn't matter that Harland Sanders made chicken.

why be a liar?? Be honest and say if they can steal health care from others they will because they are liberals and that what liberals do!

Do you want to use democracy to steal food clothing and shelter too?

 

[Gadawg73]

We need to end the "I earned my health care for free" mentality in this country.
All that does is further fuel the blank check waste of available resources that we do have.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

We need to end the "I earned my health care for free" mentality in this country.
All that does is further fuel the blank check waste of available resources that we do have.

yes liberals pretend what they are stealing is a natural resource, not the hard work of others!

 

[regent]

We need to end the "I earned my health care for free" mentality in this country.
All that does is further fuel the blank check waste of available resources that we do have.

yes liberals pretend what they are stealing is a natural resource, not the hard work of others!

Do people steal their Social Security checks?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

We need to end the "I earned my health care for free" mentality in this country.
All that does is further fuel the blank check waste of available resources that we do have.

yes liberals pretend what they are stealing is a natural resource, not the hard work of others!

Do people steal their Social Security checks?

of course since the current recipients are being paid by current taxpayers since the money they contributed was stolen and wasted by liberal govt. Ask them is they would pay it if it was not stolen at gun point.

 

[M14 Shooter]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work.

Why do you believe that you have thw right to have other people provide you with goods and services that you do not then have ti pay for?

I don't have the right, but the people of the United States have the right.

Why do you believe that ANYONE has thw right to have other people provide them with goods and services that they do not then have ti pay for?

 

[dblack]

The whole concept of a "right" for someone to get something is contradictory.

 

[Andylusion]

Unable to work? Bullshit. Unless you're paralyzed from the neck down or institutionalized in a wraparound jacket, I don't buy that "unable to work" garbage. Oh, you may not be able to do the job you WANT to do, but there are still ALWAYS jobs out there that can be done.

It really is a matter of the spoiled brat syndrome manifesting itself in elder years.

In generations past, that was never the case. If you worked as a farmer, you were working the farm, cleaning stalls, pitching hay, and tilling the ground up until your 70s. That was normal. That was how life was.

Harland Sanders didn't even start Kentucky Fried Chicken, until age 62, and he worked his butt off for years until 1972 when he sold it for $2 Million dollars.

But no no, we're 60 years old and that entitles us to sit on our ass, and have everyone else pay for everything we have.

I had the feeling that America has always had poor and disabled and that was the reason for the County poor farms and such. But my argument that if the American people decide they want health care, we will have health care still stands and it doesn't matter that Harland Sanders made chicken.

Your argument is for tyranny. I'm against tyranny.

And your argument is for a system that simply doesn't work. Cuban people can't even get Aspirin for their 'free' health care. Canadians routinely come to the US for care, instead of waiting years, even decades for care. British move to the US, because care they want isn't even offered there.

Your argument will result in the American version of Greece. The Soviet Union failed because socialism doesn't work. You advocate something with a proven track record of failure.

If you push this, you'll end up with exactly what you don't want.

 

[Andylusion]

The whole concept of a "right" for someone to get something is contradictory.

Are you people on the left reading this? This statement is exactly right. You don't have the 'right' to demand something from someone else. That's why we on the right consistently fight to reduce or eliminate you stealing our money.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The whole concept of a "right" for someone to get something is contradictory.

Are you people on the left reading this? This statement is exactly right. You don't have the 'right' to demand something from someone else. That's why we on the right consistently fight to reduce or eliminate you stealing our money.

it is stealing; that's why they need men with guns, in the end, to take what is yours. Liberalism is essentially about violence. Lets hear a liberal deny it!.

 

[regent]

It really is a matter of the spoiled brat syndrome manifesting itself in elder years.

In generations past, that was never the case. If you worked as a farmer, you were working the farm, cleaning stalls, pitching hay, and tilling the ground up until your 70s. That was normal. That was how life was.

Harland Sanders didn't even start Kentucky Fried Chicken, until age 62, and he worked his butt off for years until 1972 when he sold it for $2 Million dollars.

But no no, we're 60 years old and that entitles us to sit on our ass, and have everyone else pay for everything we have.

I had the feeling that America has always had poor and disabled and that was the reason for the County poor farms and such. But my argument that if the American people decide they want health care, we will have health care still stands and it doesn't matter that Harland Sanders made chicken.

Your argument is for tyranny. I'm against tyranny.

And your argument is for a system that simply doesn't work. Cuban people can't even get Aspirin for their 'free' health care. Canadians routinely come to the US for care, instead of waiting years, even decades for care. British move to the US, because care they want isn't even offered there.

Your argument will result in the American version of Greece. The Soviet Union failed because socialism doesn't work. You advocate something with a proven track record of failure.

If you push this, you'll end up with exactly what you don't want.

If a democratic nation does not want a program, the people should be able to rid their nation of said program. So Britain, Canada and the others unhappy with their medical program can vote for the party that will remove it.
I'm sure some believe that America would like to rid this country of Social Security as Bush intimated, but it's still here and Republicans seem to have dropped their attempt to privatize it. Maybe Americans do not want to rid the nation of Social Security?
America, as most nations, has a mixed economic system, the mixture: socialism and capitalism.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

has a mixed economic system, the mixture: socialism and capitalism.

and as America mixes in more socialism the decline worsens and as China mixes in more capitalism the incline increases.

socialism is merely about working less and stealing more. It is the perfect formula for decline! Ever heard of East Germany/West Germany

 

[TruthSeeker56]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

I'll need to take a shower after agreeing with Bernie Sanders and other liberals in this forum, but I have always believed that ALL U.S. CITIZENS should NEVER go without top-quality affordable health care, REGARDLESS of ability to pay.

The U.S. government has wasted and squandered TRILLIONS of dollars in revenue on wars and foreign aid and an endless number of legislative boondoggles and "wars" on drugs and poverty and God knows what else.

ALL of these trillions of dollars that have been wasted SHOULD have been used on taking care of the health care needs of ALL U.S. citizens.

PERIOD. Enough is enough.

As it is RIGHT NOW, in today's "United Socialist States Of America", ALL hospitals and ALL OTHER health care entities should be NON-PROFIT organizations.

 

[anotherlife]

The US healthcare sector is a purely paper industry that is 14 % of the US economy. Because of its size, the hedge fund managers, using the free cash of 401k/IRA contributions, keep pumping it bigger and bigger forever.

The US healthcare sector is only one example of the larger US economy, that is generally moving away from a supply-demand based buyer-provider pricing, to a 3rd party pricing in all industries.

When a 3rd party defines cash flow, such as by insurance policies or by lending, the prices become unknown until invoices are generated. Then, the 3rd party defers most of that payment down to the buyer who had no influence in the pricing.

So, the US healthcare sector will continue to drive companies out of business and individuals into bankruptcy, in ever larger numbers and without any limit.

Health care is 17% of the economy and growing at an unsustainable rate.
Government and group health care employer paid for is the problem.

I agree that group health care paid by employers is a big ptoblem and the root cause for this bubble.

But why government healthcare? Government healthcare is the way every other country keeps its healthcare costs under control, and makes labor 50 % cheaper than the USA after discounting currency manipulations.

I think government healthcare is an absolute must, because any incident, such as geriatric conditions, can never fit any insurance model after happening 100 % of the time with 100 % fatality.

Of course, we could just accept that we were never meant to live forever, but ... no one will accept that as long as someone else pays for his care. HEHE

 

[emilynghiem]

The US healthcare sector is a purely paper industry that is 14 % of the US economy. Because of its size, the hedge fund managers, using the free cash of 401k/IRA contributions, keep pumping it bigger and bigger forever.

The US healthcare sector is only one example of the larger US economy, that is generally moving away from a supply-demand based buyer-provider pricing, to a 3rd party pricing in all industries.

When a 3rd party defines cash flow, such as by insurance policies or by lending, the prices become unknown until invoices are generated. Then, the 3rd party defers most of that payment down to the buyer who had no influence in the pricing.

So, the US healthcare sector will continue to drive companies out of business and individuals into bankruptcy, in ever larger numbers and without any limit.

Health care is 17% of the economy and growing at an unsustainable rate.
Government and group health care employer paid for is the problem.

I agree that group health care paid by employers is a big ptoblem and the root cause for this bubble.

But why government healthcare? Government healthcare is the way every other country keeps its healthcare costs under control, and makes labor 50 % cheaper than the USA after discounting currency manipulations.

I think government healthcare is an absolute must, because any incident, such as geriatric conditions, can never fit any insurance model after happening 100 % of the time with 100 % fatality.

Of course, we could just accept that we were never meant to live forever, but ... no one will accept that as long as someone else pays for his care. HEHE

Dear [MENTION=41171]anotherlife[/MENTION], [MENTION=31238]TruthSeeker56[/MENTION] [MENTION=34634]merrill[/MENTION]

Charity Navigator Rating - Doctors Without Borders, USA

I hear you saying on one hand, that govt health care keeps costs uniform/under control,
and on the other hand complain about the billions if not trillions wasted on govt mismanagement.
Because politics gets in the way, and health care requires personal localized and individual choices,
creating a national bureaucratic system limits the choices that can be managed, people don't agree, so this causes backlog and waste that is harder to fix.

This is why it is better to keep the control in the hands of private groups: nonprofits,
businesses, schools, charities, etc. with a vested interest in running efficiently and sustainably.
The minute a group changes policy where it no longer represents what you want to pay for or be under,
you have the freedom to change choices right away and go join or invest elsewhere, you have direct check.
under this system of taking people's and states rights and forcing it under one system federally, people LOSE
their individual free choice that is needed in health care and financial decisions, by trying to force a "one size fits all" policy which doesn't fit.
Half the nation has been screaming in opposition to ACA precluding any other choices of providing health care, and been left out while the
law that only represents the BELIEFS of the other half is considered law. How dare you assume that just because it hasn't changed yet, that people consent to govt policy?
Are you saying that if a rape victim is tied up and screams are ignored, it's not considered rape until it is proven in court the victim didn't consent? WTF???

groups have been arguing since before it passed and still haven't agreed how to change it -- you are even saying
this "proves" people agree if they haven't changed the system BULLS**T -- we can't change it because of all the politics.
So we are stuck with a wasteful system. It would be faster to change if states and people retain direct say in the choices that affect them or their state.
NOT trying to globalize one policy for all states, when people within the states don't even agree. So you've multiplied a conflicting policy (diving people 50/50) by 50 states and think people agree
just because the dissenting groups making up half the nation haven't been able to change the policies we reject as unconstitutional.

Look at the performance record of Doctors Without Borders, linked above. You can also look up AmeriCares, another reputable nonprofit. USAA insurance which testified before Congress as proof that no legislatoin was needed for insurance companies to perform at highest quality ratings.

What makes you think that the "only way" to manage health care is by forcing people to buy insurance or pay fines into govt?

Why would you punish people for wanting the choice to invest directly into medical programs, education and outreach, such as through services more cost-effective?

I have friends who practice the same methods of spiritual healing that have cured people of cancer, diabetes, liver disease, schizophrenia, drug abuse and addiction to save lives, health and costs of otherwise more expensive procedures and treatments.

Why should those FREE practices be penalized and prohibited as choices under ACA so that money is forced to be paid to govt groups that CAN'T cure these conditions but spiritual healing can that is FREE. Why?

Are you that fearful and ignorant of better means of providing health care
that you have to abuse govt and IRS to FORCE your way on everyone else
because of your beliefs? When Christians push their beleifs through govt
that is considered unconstitutional abuse. When prolife people push bans on
abortion as "the only way" to stop abortion that is struck down as antichoice.

so what do you call these ACA mandates that push insurance as the "only way"
how is that prochoice? how is that not anti-choice
and forcing YOUR beliefs on everyone else, when there are tons of other charities
who do much better work than the govt. why can't we fund those? why
this insistence on forcing mandates on people except to control things politically?

 

[emilynghiem]

If a democratic nation does not want a program, the people should be able to rid their nation of said program. So Britain, Canada and the others unhappy with their medical program can vote for the party that will remove it.
I'm sure some believe that America would like to rid this country of Social Security as Bush intimated, but it's still here and Republicans seem to have dropped their attempt to privatize it. Maybe Americans do not want to rid the nation of Social Security?
America, as most nations, has a mixed economic system, the mixture: socialism and capitalism.

[MENTION=35264]regent[/MENTION] By your reasoning,
slaves who could not free themselves because the courts and systems were against them
did not really want to get rid of slavery? All the time they were stuck with it as law?

people who protest unfair labor practices, but fail to end the oppression,
must not have really wanted to get rid of those abuses?

the rape and torture victims who stayed in that house in Ohio and could have broken out sooner, must have wanted to stay there?

Both Ben Carson and Obama support microlending.

could it be that if microlending is the solution to replacing welfare handouts
than the one thing stopping this from being implemented is the division between parties?

similar BTW to the division between slaves, the field slaves kept divided from the house slaves, like how the Democrats pit the poor against the rich and the Republicans pit the rich against the poor. this division keeps the "slaves" divided so they cannot liberate themselves when they are dependent on the masters while they fight for what they are given.

so that may explain why neither party can get reforms passed.
it doesn't mean they want the system as is

I know the liberals Democrats and Greens really want singlepayer
and the Republicans and libertarians Tea Party etc. want free market health care

neither party can get what they want while they are both stuck under
ACA mandates like handcuffs and can't agree what to change it to

if they both agreed to change it to different things, they could both get what they want.
each party coudl set up their own system for their own members and not have to fight.

but because this insane notion that there can only be one system for all people,
then they are stuck fighting over a system nobody wants to pay for.

The ONLY people I have found supporting ACA all depend on OTHER PEOPLE to pay for it.
if they have to pay , they don't want it.

So that tells me NOBODY really wants it because NOBODY agrees to pay for it!
They only agree if "someone else" is footing the bill. similar to arguments that we would send people to fewer wars if that were our own sons and daughters. but as long as it is other people being sent to fight and die, then people are all for war. very similar.

it's not that we want it, just because we haven't organized better choices
and we're stuck with it for now.

 

[Andylusion]

I had the feeling that America has always had poor and disabled and that was the reason for the County poor farms and such. But my argument that if the American people decide they want health care, we will have health care still stands and it doesn't matter that Harland Sanders made chicken.

Your argument is for tyranny. I'm against tyranny.

And your argument is for a system that simply doesn't work. Cuban people can't even get Aspirin for their 'free' health care. Canadians routinely come to the US for care, instead of waiting years, even decades for care. British move to the US, because care they want isn't even offered there.

Your argument will result in the American version of Greece. The Soviet Union failed because socialism doesn't work. You advocate something with a proven track record of failure.

If you push this, you'll end up with exactly what you don't want.

If a democratic nation does not want a program, the people should be able to rid their nation of said program. So Britain, Canada and the others unhappy with their medical program can vote for the party that will remove it.
I'm sure some believe that America would like to rid this country of Social Security as Bush intimated, but it's still here and Republicans seem to have dropped their attempt to privatize it. Maybe Americans do not want to rid the nation of Social Security?
America, as most nations, has a mixed economic system, the mixture: socialism and capitalism.

You still don't get it do you. I want your house. If I gather up a majority of people, can I just take your house?

There have been countries under "democracy" that have done that. The majority in Rwanda believed it was ok to kill neighbors and take their stuff. So they did! According to your idiotic position, that was Democracy in action. And I could list dozens of other similar examples.

The whole point of having a constitution, is to limit the scope and authority of the public. We can't just 'vote' ourselves anything we want. There are good, and required limits on what we can do.

Just because "everyone wants it!" doesn't mean it is legal or right.

Yes, we have social security. Yes, stupid people don't understand that Social Security is ruining the nation, keeping people impoverished, and is ultimately going broke.

Stupid people also support Castro taking over Cuba, and dooming the country to 50 years of decline, ruination, and thousands of people making rafts to try and swim to Florida to escape their terrible system.

"But Democracy! They wanted that!" They did... and they got it... and now they regret it.

Greece had the most generous retirement system in all of Europe. Now look at where they are. That's where we'll be following your plan.

 

[LiberalMedia]

The whole concept of a "right" for someone to get something is contradictory.

Are you people on the left reading this? This statement is exactly right. You don't have the 'right' to demand something from someone else. That's why we on the right consistently fight to reduce or eliminate you stealing our money.

it is stealing; that's why they need men with guns, in the end, to take what is yours.

Actually, we want to ban guns, and all other weapons as well.

Liberalism is essentially about violence.

Nope.

Lets hear a liberal deny it!.

Just did. Deal with it.