HC reform proves that the system has broken

JimH52

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Watching this Health Care Bill progress is one of the most frustrating procedures
that I have ever seen. First the Democrats hold a Super Majority in the Sentate
and run with abandon over the minority part. Then they lose Teddy's seat and have
to play nice. The whole time the GOP is whining and saying that they also want HC reform
and even submit an embarassing shell of proposals. They would be happy to leave the system just as it is.

Bi-Paritsanship is a dead animal in DC. Rather than even begin to think about the
Country and what it is best for the citizens, it appears each party is locked in a
death match for power. They seem to be only considering what is best for their
political party.

Now I understand better why many people just want to "Throw the Bumbs out of Office!"
:eusa_eh:
 

Truthmatters

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Remember which side is about to save American lives by ending pre exsisting conditions.

There is one party who doesnt care and has killed healthcare reform EVERY time it has been attempted and then did NOTHING to fix it while in complete control for years.
 

Bern80

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The whole time the GOP is whining and saying that they also want HC reform
and even submit an embarassing shell of proposals. They would be happy to leave the system just as it is.

A flat out lie. You aren't going to find many in the GOP who don't think the system needs changes. The disagreement is on how to do it and what will work. The debate over health care is truly a debate of ideologies. One thinks the the only way to fix things is raise taxes and let government do it and one thinks things can be improved with some deregulation. Unfortunately for you the track of record of govenment efficiently solving problems isn't so great.
 

Bern80

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Remember which side is about to save American lives by ending pre exsisting conditions.

Which is moral how exactly? Should you get to buy auto insurance AFTER you get in a car accident?

There is one party who doesnt care and has killed healthcare reform EVERY time it has been attempted and then did NOTHING to fix it while in complete control for years.

Then there's the other party who's 'solution' is unconstitutional and will make things worse.
 

Some Guy

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A flat out lie. You aren't going to find many in the GOP who don't think the system needs changes. The disagreement is on how to do it and what will work. The debate over health care is truly a debate of ideologies. One thinks the the only way to fix things is raise taxes and let government do it and one thinks things can be improved with some deregulation. Unfortunately for you the track of record of govenment efficiently solving problems isn't so great.
I wouldn't call it a flat out lie. The GOP hasn't gone out of their way to try to reform the health care or insurance industries when they held majorities, so props to the democrats for bringing it to the forefront. The problem with the democrats though is that they see the problem and wildly blow it out of proportion to try to implement massive government involvement. It's a simple example of biting off more than you can chew.
 

Truthmatters

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Healthcare is a life and death issue.

The founders wrote into our documents the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Healthcare is a right by our founders own definition.
 
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JimH52

JimH52

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A flat out lie. You aren't going to find many in the GOP who don't think the system needs changes. The disagreement is on how to do it and what will work. The debate over health care is truly a debate of ideologies. One thinks the the only way to fix things is raise taxes and let government do it and one thinks things can be improved with some deregulation. Unfortunately for you the track of record of govenment efficiently solving problems isn't so great.
I wouldn't call it a flat out lie. The GOP hasn't gone out of their way to try to reform the health care or insurance industries when they held majorities, so props to the democrats for bringing it to the forefront. The problem with the democrats though is that they see the problem and wildly blow it out of proportion to try to implement massive government involvement. It's a simple example of biting off more than you can chew.

Exactly! What we need is a moderation from both parites and a wilingness to drop the party label just long enough to accomplish something. The GOP needs to get out of the pockets of speciall interests, such as Insurance Companies and the Dems needs to learn once and for all that more government is not the answer to every problem.

I think Obama and the Dems saw the landslide in 2008 as their best opportunity ever, and perhaps forever, to reform an out of control HC system. Their intentions were noble, but somewhere along the way extremism carried the day.
 

Avatar4321

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Healthcare is a life and death issue.

The founders wrote into our documents the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Healthcare is a right by our founders own definition.

Which, of course, is why no one even thought of that for 200 years.

Please, the educated in the room aren't so stupid to believe that disengenous argument.
 
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JimH52

JimH52

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Truth is right. The frigin republicans were against Social Security and they were against Madicare. If Ronald Regan had his way, segreagation would still rule. This is from Wkipedia

Minorities
Reagan did not support federal initiatives to provide blacks with civil rights.[32] He opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964[33] and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, supported by Martin Luther King, Jr., among others, and signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson.[32] His opposition was based on his view that the federal government should not overtly provide for people.[32]

Reagan gave a States' Rights speech[34] in Philadelphia, Mississippi, the town where three civil rights workers were murdered in 1964,[35] when running for president in 1980 and said (while campaigning in Georgia) that Confederate President Jefferson Davis was "a hero of mine."
 

Bern80

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Healthcare is a life and death issue.

The founders wrote into our documents the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Healthcare is a right by our founders own definition.

I am fairly certain the framers would not agree with you that a right to the concept of life equals a right to free medical care.

Please explain to us all how you taking care of yourself is someone elses problem.
 
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SFC Ollie

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Well so far at least Idaho understands that this Bill is Probably unconstitutional.

Idaho took the lead in a growing, nationwide fight against health care overhaul Wednesday when its governor became the first to sign a measure requiring the state attorney general to sue the federal government if residents are forced to buy health insurance.

The Associated Press: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan
 

code1211

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Remember which side is about to save American lives by ending pre exsisting conditions.

There is one party who doesnt care and has killed healthcare reform EVERY time it has been attempted and then did NOTHING to fix it while in complete control for years.


Which party was it that introduced and passed the Medicare Perscription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act? Why in the world would it take 6 years to have gotten this passed if the Dems were so in favor of doing something to help people?
 

tigerbob

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Remember which side is about to save American lives by ending pre exsisting conditions.

Which is moral how exactly? Should you get to buy auto insurance AFTER you get in a car accident?

There is one party who doesnt care and has killed healthcare reform EVERY time it has been attempted and then did NOTHING to fix it while in complete control for years.

Then there's the other party who's 'solution' is unconstitutional and will make things worse.

So, what are you saying with regard to pre-existing conditions?
 

code1211

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Healthcare is a life and death issue.

The founders wrote into our documents the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Healthcare is a right by our founders own definition.


That right is "endowed by thier Creator". If they had meant that the State endowed that right, I'm pretty sure they would have said it that way. Unlike many today, they believed that words mean things and they continue to mean what they mean.

Also believed by our Founders was the notion that a right is something we just have. Healthcare Insurance Reform does not provide insurance. It provides the right to buy insurance. How many rights defined by the Founders are available through purchase only?

The theives in DC just can't wait to get their sticky fingers on another 2 Trillion or so dollars.

I still can't figure out how a plan to raise insurance premiums, raise taxes, spend another trillion of money we dont't have and force every American to pony up the increased premiums will reduce costs.

If it will reduce costs, why are they raising the price of every facet of the operation?
 
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sparky

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i would say big insurance would simply spread it out among all the insured

as being born= a pre-exiting condition

~S~
 

code1211

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A flat out lie. You aren't going to find many in the GOP who don't think the system needs changes. The disagreement is on how to do it and what will work. The debate over health care is truly a debate of ideologies. One thinks the the only way to fix things is raise taxes and let government do it and one thinks things can be improved with some deregulation. Unfortunately for you the track of record of govenment efficiently solving problems isn't so great.
I wouldn't call it a flat out lie. The GOP hasn't gone out of their way to try to reform the health care or insurance industries when they held majorities, so props to the democrats for bringing it to the forefront. The problem with the democrats though is that they see the problem and wildly blow it out of proportion to try to implement massive government involvement. It's a simple example of biting off more than you can chew.

Exactly! What we need is a moderation from both parites and a wilingness to drop the party label just long enough to accomplish something. The GOP needs to get out of the pockets of speciall interests, such as Insurance Companies and the Dems needs to learn once and for all that more government is not the answer to every problem.

I think Obama and the Dems saw the landslide in 2008 as their best opportunity ever, and perhaps forever, to reform an out of control HC system. Their intentions were noble, but somewhere along the way extremism carried the day.


The Dems are in the pockets of the Trial lawyers. Many of them are trial lawyers.

The reforms have nothing, repeat: NOTHING to do with reforming healthcare. All the reforms address are Health Insurance and Government subsidy. There is not one idea in the whole mess that will improve the delivery of healthcare or make the actual services more efficient or streamlined.

If there was any nobility in this from the start, they would have been reforming healthcare, not insurance.
 

Truthmatters

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Healthcare is a life and death issue.

The founders wrote into our documents the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Healthcare is a right by our founders own definition.


That right is "endowed by thier Creator". If they had meant that the State endowed that right, I'm pretty sure they would have said it that way. Unlike many today, they believed that words mean things and they continue to mean what they mean.

Also believed by our Founders was the notion that a right is something we just have. Healthcare Insurance Reform does not provide insurance. It provides the right to buy insurance.

The theives in DC just can't wait to get their sticky fingers on another 2 Trillion or so dollars.

I still can't figure out how a plan to raise insurance premiums, raise taxes, spend another trillion of money we dont't have and force every American to pony up the increased premiums will reduce costs.

If it will reduce costs, why are they raising the price of every facet of the operation?

So you contend that the founders did not intend for the American people to have the right to LIFE?????
 

Bern80

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So you contend that the founders did not intend for the American people to have the right to LIFE?????

No truth the issue is you don't understand what it means to have a right TO something. Having a right TO something simply means no one can take it away from you. It does not mean you get to obligate that someone else provide it FOR you.

Under your interpretation you should be just as upset with the current legislation as the right is. After all if you have right to health care as you argue, you shouldn't have to pay one red cent for it, right? Shouldn't you also be arguing that government provide a gun for each and every American?
 

SFC Ollie

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So you contend that the founders did not intend for the American people to have the right to LIFE?????

No truth the issue is you don't understand what it means to have a right TO something. Having a right TO something simply means no one can take it away from you. It does not mean you get to obligate that someone else provide it FOR you.

Under your interpretation you should be just as upset with the current legislation as the right is. After all if you have right to health care as you argue, you shouldn't have to pay one red cent for it, right? Shouldn't you also be arguing that government provide a gun for each and every American?

Maybe Truthmatters thinks we should also have taxes on all our rights, A penny per 1000 words for the first Amendment maybe?
 

jeffrockit

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Healthcare is a life and death issue.

So you contend that the founders did not intend for the American people to have the right to LIFE?????

You do have a right to life...your own, just not a right to another individuals life. By the govt mandating free/low cost healthcare, they are in reality mandating someone's hard work and time to you at a price the govt choses.

I wonder if those that demand free HC because they feel it is not something one should be able to make a profit from (Health Insurance profit margins are not even in the top 35 highest). It seems the liberal mindset is that no profit should be made off of anything that people need to survive. Bear in mind this list would include grocery stores (we all need food), Water Department (we all need water) and etc.

I would like to hear a liberal's response to this. With what businesses or someone's skills do we cut the list off?
 

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