Have We Given Up Essential Liberty For Temporary Safety? Yes or No?

[Full-Auto]

Why are IRS employees armed? It's an interesting question.

People like you scare them.

You would think that after 12 years of government schooling people would have learned to roll over and play dead.

Americans should do the right thing - go over the nearest police station and turn in their firearms.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

.

Guns? What guns?

 

[paulitician]

Why are IRS employees armed? It's an interesting question.

People like you scare them.

You would think that after 12 years of government schooling people would have learned to roll over and play dead.

Americans should do the right thing - go over the nearest police station and turn in their firearms.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

.

Oh i definitely see that day coming. There are some Americans who still talk tough about keeping their firearms but most would just roll over and do as they're told if the State demanded they do so. Just look at most on this Board. Most here are in love with Authoritarianism. They bow and obey when being humiliated by the Police. I seriously think most of these people would do anything they're told by the Police. I really do think they would taser & pepper spray their own Mothers if the Police ordered them to do it. That's how bad things have gotten in this Country. We've become everything our Founding Fathers fought against. The American will & spirit has been crushed by the State.

 

[Contumacious]

Why are IRS employees armed? It's an interesting question.

People like you scare them.

You would think that after 12 years of government schooling people would have learned to roll over and play dead.

Americans should do the right thing - go over the nearest police station and turn in their firearms.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

.

Oh i definitely see that day coming. There are some Americans who still talk tough about keeping their firearms but most would just roll over and do as they're told if the State demanded they do so. Just look at most on this Board. Most here are in love with Authoritarianism. They bow and obey when being humiliated by the Police. I seriously think most of these people would do anything they're told by the Police. I really do think they would taser & pepper spray their own Mothers if the Police ordered them to do it. That's how bad things have gotten in this Country. We've become everything our Founding Fathers fought against. The American will & spirit has been crushed by the State.

Actually the OWS motto is:

"If you feed and clothe me you can taze me bro'."

.

 

[Foxfyre]

Why are IRS employees armed? It's an interesting question.

People like you scare them.

You would think that after 12 years of government schooling people would have learned to roll over and play dead.

Americans should do the right thing - go over the nearest police station and turn in their firearms.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

.

Oh i definitely see that day coming. There are some Americans who still talk tough about keeping their firearms but most would just roll over and do as they're told if the State demanded they do so. Just look at most on this Board. Most here are in love with Authoritarianism. They bow and obey when being humiliated by the Police. I seriously think most of these people would do anything they're told by the Police. I really do think they would taser & pepper spray their own Mothers if the Police ordered them to do it. That's how bad things have gotten in this Country. We've become everything our Founding Fathers fought against. The American will & spirit has been crushed by the State.

Even within the framework of our unalienable rights that I have been beating the drum to recognize and protect for years now, however, there has to be a rule of law. As I posted previously on the 'crowd control' thread, and which was mostly ignored, I would risk my personal safety and personal protections to defend the right for lawful assembly and the right to petition the government for grievances.

But the Founders did not promote anarchy because they knew that under anarchy nobody's rights are secure. An unrestrained mob allowed to illegally disrespect, trash, deface, and destroy public and private property, threaten people and violate the rights of others with impunity is anarchy. And we cannot condone that and there must be consequences or none of us have any rights at all.

That is not promoting an authoritarian government. That is exercising our rights to enforce a social contract under which we willingly agreed to live and thereby help secure all our rights.

We have a constitutional right to bear arms and I would also risk my personal safety and personal property to defend that right. But that right does not give anybody the ability to fire a rifle or handgun anywhere or any time they wish. There must be room in the social contract to insist that people use those guns responsibly and to enforce that.

Somewhere in the middle of the social contract is where we should all be. Somewhere between anarchy in which terrorists or angry mobs or whomever is allowed to operate in complete freedom to commit whatever mayhem they wish on anybody and totalitarian government in which government assigns whatever rights we are to have and deny them to whomever it wishes to deny them. I want government to first secure our rights and then leave us alone to live our lives and form whatever sort of society we wish to have.

 

[Dragon]

As I said, I understand the reasoning behind considering the income tax a loss of liberty, even though I disagree with it. But how is it a loss of liberty for the sake of security? How does the income tax make us more secure, or even pretend to?

.

What kind of stupid question is that?

Because of the income tax fedgov hired new revenuers to chase us down.

They get a steady paycheck, federal blue cross and blue shield, immunity from prosecution for transgressing upon our rights, and a government issued glock.

The income tax provides them security.

So, obviously, you have no idea about what you are talking about.

.

That was probably tongue in cheek, so it won't do much good for me to point out that when we speak of sacrificing essential liberties to gain temporary security, we mean OUR security, not that of federal agents.

 

[paulitician]

It's becoming pretty clear most Americans no longer deserve Liberty. So much Authoritarian-Worship these days. Our Founding Fathers would be ashamed.

 

[Dragon]

It's becoming pretty clear most Americans no longer deserve Liberty. So much Authoritarian-Worship these days. Our Founding Fathers would be ashamed.

Oh, considering that the Alien and Sedition Acts were passed during the administration of John Adams -- who WAS one of the Founding Fathers -- I think you're exaggerating their sainted dedication to freedom.

 

[paulitician]

It's becoming pretty clear most Americans no longer deserve Liberty. So much Authoritarian-Worship these days. Our Founding Fathers would be ashamed.

Oh, considering that the Alien and Sedition Acts were passed during the administration of John Adams -- who WAS one of the Founding Fathers -- I think you're exaggerating their sainted dedication to freedom.

Possibly. But our original Tea Partiers would be appalled at seeing so many Americans rolling over to authority this way.

 

[Paulie]

Exactly what liberty are you now missing that you had before?

I hear this statement all the time but I see no difference in my freedoms.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Are you kidding me? The 2nd and 4th amendments, for starters, have been pissed all over. The government wants to take our freedom to choose not to carry health insurance. They wiretap on domestic soil listening to US citizens who may or may not even be a threat, which we'd never know the real truth about because it's "classified" and a "matter of national security". They don't allow freedom in the marketplace to let businesses and consumers use alternate mediums of exchange to do private business.

I won't go any further because frankly that ought to be MORE than enough.

 

[Foxfyre]

Exactly what liberty are you now missing that you had before?

I hear this statement all the time but I see no difference in my freedoms.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Are you kidding me? The 2nd and 4th amendments, for starters, have been pissed all over. The government wants to take our freedom to choose not to carry health insurance. They wiretap on domestic soil listening to US citizens who may or may not even be a threat, which we'd never know the real truth about because it's "classified" and a "matter of national security". They don't allow freedom in the marketplace to let businesses and consumers use alternate mediums of exchange to do private business.

I won't go any further because frankly that ought to be MORE than enough.

Which is what I asked of the thread author early on. Is THIS what he had in mind with the poll? If so I would answer an unqualified YES.

But I fear he is speaking of police and fire enforcement, of the Patriot Act, and other measures that authorities are using to secure and protect our rights. And in that I would have to say mostly NO.

He refused to answer the question or make the distinction, but in subsequent posts he pushes for anarchy and disrespect for law enforcement and I cannot support that.

 

[Listening]

People like you scare them.

You would think that after 12 years of government schooling people would have learned to roll over and play dead.

Americans should do the right thing - go over the nearest police station and turn in their firearms.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

.

Oh i definitely see that day coming. There are some Americans who still talk tough about keeping their firearms but most would just roll over and do as they're told if the State demanded they do so. Just look at most on this Board. Most here are in love with Authoritarianism. They bow and obey when being humiliated by the Police. I seriously think most of these people would do anything they're told by the Police. I really do think they would taser & pepper spray their own Mothers if the Police ordered them to do it. That's how bad things have gotten in this Country. We've become everything our Founding Fathers fought against. The American will & spirit has been crushed by the State.

Actually the OWS motto is:

"If you feed and clothe me you can taze me bro'."

.

If anyone gets that on video, I'd pay to see it !

 

[paulitician]

Most people do seem to think we have. According to our own little poll anyway.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Provide a list of these "essential" freedoms we gave up?

 

[paulitician]

76% of people polled here do think we have given up essential liberty for temporary safety. I don't know if this reflects the feelings of our nation but i do think it is pretty disturbing. What are we becoming? I think more Americans need to start asking that question more often.