Hate Crimes in NY Up 14%

[elvis]

No. Hate crimes do not just cover minorities.

Ok. I'll listen. Who all do they cover?

Everyone that has a gender, a religion or an ethnic background.

you'll agree, then, that every rape is a hate crime.....

crime against women.

 

[elvis]

A white guy burned down a black Church the day after Obama was elected.

The guy says absolutely nothing at the scene. No N word, just gasoline and a match.



He is being charged with arson AND if convicted will also face "hate crime" charges for the extended harm to the black community. He did not just burn something, anything, he burned a black church to send a message of intimidation. If the lawyer can prove his motivation based on other evidence, what is the harm if he faces enhanced charges? Vs what's the harm if the law treats such a crime as just any old run of the mill arson...?

Are other victims of arson somehow receiving "less justice"?

harm? maybe none. but how about if he burns down a white church, he gets the same punishment as he did for the "hate crime"?

 

[Valerie]

A white guy burned down a black Church the day after Obama was elected.

The guy says absolutely nothing at the scene. No N word, just gasoline and a match.



He is being charged with arson AND if convicted will also face "hate crime" charges for the extended harm to the black community. He did not just burn something, anything, he burned a black church to send a message of intimidation. If the lawyer can prove his motivation based on other evidence, what is the harm if he faces enhanced charges? Vs what's the harm if the law treats such a crime as just any old run of the mill arson...?

Are other victims of arson somehow receiving "less justice"?

harm? maybe none. but how about if he burns down a white church, he gets the same punishment as he did for the "hate crime"?

If a lawyer can prove his motivation was to intimidate the Church community...


Also, if you consider the original scenario and say it was just minors playing with matches and the motivation was not racial...Different crime, right?

 

[elvis]

A white guy burned down a black Church the day after Obama was elected.

The guy says absolutely nothing at the scene. No N word, just gasoline and a match.



He is being charged with arson AND if convicted will also face "hate crime" charges for the extended harm to the black community. He did not just burn something, anything, he burned a black church to send a message of intimidation. If the lawyer can prove his motivation based on other evidence, what is the harm if he faces enhanced charges? Vs what's the harm if the law treats such a crime as just any old run of the mill arson...?

Are other victims of arson somehow receiving "less justice"?

harm? maybe none. but how about if he burns down a white church, he gets the same punishment as he did for the "hate crime"?

If a lawyer can prove his motivation was to intimidate the Church community...


Also, if you consider the original scenario and say it was just minors playing with matches and the motivation was not racial...Different crime, right?

the kids with matches, to me, does not constitute arson...
and why isn't every attack on a church a hate crime against a religion?

 

[Valerie]

harm? maybe none. but how about if he burns down a white church, he gets the same punishment as he did for the "hate crime"?

If a lawyer can prove his motivation was to intimidate the Church community...


Also, if you consider the original scenario and say it was just minors playing with matches and the motivation was not racial...Different crime, right?

the kids with matches, to me, does not constitute arson...
and why isn't every attack on a church a hate crime against a religion?

Maybe I didn't pick the best example with a Church, so just call it a community center or ANY type of business...

 

[Valerie]

harm? maybe none. but how about if he burns down a white church, he gets the same punishment as he did for the "hate crime"?

If a lawyer can prove his motivation was to intimidate the Church community...


Also, if you consider the original scenario and say it was just minors playing with matches and the motivation was not racial...Different crime, right?

the kids with matches, to me, does not constitute arson...
and why isn't every attack on a church a hate crime against a religion?

For comprehension sake...Just say some thugs are just into burning random stuff for a thrill vs someone intending to intimidate where the measurable harm is not JUST physical.

 

[Intense]

The absolute best positive outcome that will ever come from hate crime legislation is that violent racists and fag bashers will learn not to yell any of the no-no words while putting their cowboy boot through their victim's skull. But hey, at least that means their victims won't have to suffer the indignity of being called a fag as they breath their final, agonizing breath.

Who watered down the penalty for Assault and Battery? Why? Why do Victim's get less Justice for not being Gay, or a Minority? How does that make sense? How does Plea Bargaining Violent Crime make any sense? What sense does early Parole make?

LESS justice?


If you're not victimized BECAUSE you are a certain minority then you're really not missing out!

White is a minority in my neck of the woods Valerie. Justice is Justice, and the neglect and corruption if it is rampant. You just don't understand how people get off easy, only to go out and do it again. So you justify dropping the ball, and then give special Privilege to who you deem worthy? Bullshit.

 

[Valerie]

harm? maybe none. but how about if he burns down a white church, he gets the same punishment as he did for the "hate crime"?

If a lawyer can prove his motivation was to intimidate the Church community...


Also, if you consider the original scenario and say it was just minors playing with matches and the motivation was not racial...Different crime, right?

the kids with matches, to me, does not constitute arson...
and why isn't every attack on a church a hate crime against a religion?

One more thought...

Are victims of arson at the hands of kids with matches somehow receiving "less justice" ?

 

[elvis]

If a lawyer can prove his motivation was to intimidate the Church community...


Also, if you consider the original scenario and say it was just minors playing with matches and the motivation was not racial...Different crime, right?

the kids with matches, to me, does not constitute arson...
and why isn't every attack on a church a hate crime against a religion?

One more thought...

Are victims of arson at the hands of kids with matches somehow receiving "less justice" ?

intent......

 

[Valerie]

Who watered down the penalty for Assault and Battery? Why? Why do Victim's get less Justice for not being Gay, or a Minority? How does that make sense? How does Plea Bargaining Violent Crime make any sense? What sense does early Parole make?

LESS justice?


If you're not victimized BECAUSE you are a certain minority then you're really not missing out!

White is a minority in my neck of the woods Valerie.

Justice is Justice, and the neglect and corruption if it is rampant.

You just don't understand how people get off easy, only to go out and do it again.


So you justify dropping the ball, and then give special Privilege to who you deem worthy?

Bullshit.

Bullshit, indeed.


If you are the victim of a crime, hate crime laws stand to enhance the penalty of your perpetrators as well.

 

[Intense]

Gangs are up big time in NYC, around the country, to be honest.

 

[Valerie]

the kids with matches, to me, does not constitute arson...
and why isn't every attack on a church a hate crime against a religion?

One more thought...

Are victims of arson at the hands of kids with matches somehow receiving "less justice" ?

intent......

Yes, exactly!


(Manifold wants to know how do you read their minds? )

 

[Intense]

LESS justice?


If you're not victimized BECAUSE you are a certain minority then you're really not missing out!

White is a minority in my neck of the woods Valerie.

Justice is Justice, and the neglect and corruption if it is rampant.

You just don't understand how people get off easy, only to go out and do it again.


So you justify dropping the ball, and then give special Privilege to who you deem worthy?

Bullshit.

Bullshit, indeed.


If you are the victim of a crime, hate crime laws stand to enhance the penalty of your perpetrators as well.

Oh I get it, we are all equal, some are more equal, 2+2=5, when you say it does. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[elvis]

White is a minority in my neck of the woods Valerie.

Justice is Justice, and the neglect and corruption if it is rampant.

You just don't understand how people get off easy, only to go out and do it again.


So you justify dropping the ball, and then give special Privilege to who you deem worthy?

Bullshit.

Bullshit, indeed.


If you are the victim of a crime, hate crime laws stand to enhance the penalty of your perpetrators as well.

Oh I get it, we are all equal, some are more equal, 2+2=5, when you say it does. Thanks for clearing that up.

some are more equal than others.

 

[Ravi]

Ok. I'll listen. Who all do they cover?

Everyone that has a gender, a religion or an ethnic background.

I missed this post. Does it count for Christians, then?

Yes.

 

[Ravi]

Ok. I'll listen. Who all do they cover?

Everyone that has a gender, a religion or an ethnic background.

you'll agree, then, that every rape is a hate crime.....

crime against women.

I dunno...men get raped, too. I think that rape is hatred...but it depends on the circumstances.

 

[Ravi]

Here is my analogy.

If someone burns a cross on my lawn because I'm an asshole, that is one thing. If someone does because I'm black or a Catholic then there is a historical intimidation trying to take place.

Should that person get a bigger sentence for trying to intimidate based on religious/ethnic background? Does it amount to terrorism?

I have not decided.

 

[DiveCon]

Here is my analogy.

If someone burns a cross on my lawn because I'm an asshole, that is one thing. If someone does because I'm black or a Catholic then there is a historical intimidation trying to take place.

Should that person get a bigger sentence for trying to intimidate based on religious/ethnic background? Does it amount to terrorism?

I have not decided.

if someone burns a cross on your lawn for ANY reason they should get the same punishment

 

[manifold]

So Mani, since you suggest "the absolute best positive outcome from hate crime legislation", can you also posit the absolute worst that could come of it...?

Gross injustice, or even worse.

 

[William Joyce]

and every time the economy goes bad, jews get victimized.

Yeah. Poor Goldman Sachs, Federal Reserve and Bernard Madoff.

Such victims, oy!