Hate and Rage-- What's the difference?

[Dhara]

Here's a better explanation written by someone else:

What Is the Difference between Rage and Anger? (with pictures)

 

[Dhara]

What I'm coming to understand is that anger and rage are healthy and necessary emotions for survival, when befriended and cared for.

 

[Dhara]

This may help too:

• Anger is a feeling or emotion that a person has when being offended or when wronged. Rage can be considered to be an action in retaliation to the anger that a person has.

• Rage is an extreme expression of anger.

• In anger, there is no bloodshed but rage could lead to blood shed.

• Anger is considered to be healthy whereas rage is not considered healthy.

• A person who is angry will have the power to control the emotions. But a person having rage has no control of the emotions and it could be sometimes destructive.

• Unlike anger, rage is a complete blackout of the thoughts.

• Unlike anger, rage is an intricate mix of fear, desperation anger and panic.

Read more: Difference Between Anger and Rage | Difference Between | Anger vs Rage Difference Between Anger and Rage

 

[Compost]

Primal violation?

I wonder if circumcision may be experienced as primal violation. I'm thinking of an infant's inability to speak and make his or her needs known.

Yes. Even a newborn may cry out of rage if she wakes up hungry and isn't fed right away.
Is it normal that my baby seems angry? | BabyCenter

So "primal violation" is reacting negatively to something physically unpleasant?

Could be, or could be some other kind of abuse.

OK. Could be or could be... You said some psychologists claim that rage relates to primal violation. Do you have a link from one of these psychologists to share, or can you expand on the point a bit?

Let me see if I can expand on it. My psychologist says rage relates to violation. It's a feeling that something completely intolerable is going on in the present, or in the case of traumatized people, has gone on in the past, and is being triggered now. He says it's quite different from anger, or annoyance. It's more primal or basic,coming from the most ancient or "reptilian" part of the brain.

It's often connected to fear, it's in fight or flight. Say, someone is coming at you and wants to kill you, you can't run, or freeze, so you have rage and you fight back. You fight for your life.

IF that basic entitlement, (of survival), is suppressed then a person may dissociate or disown their rage, and that's when it becomes a danger to self and others.

Does that make any sense?

I can understand what you are saying but I cannot quite buy it. I'll tell you why. Some years ago when I was in my early twenties, the place I was working was robbed. The guy showed a gun and said, hand over the money in the cash register. I did. Then he wanted MY money and he wanted something else from ME. I'll won't go into all the details. My point is, I was in danger. I wanted to survive. Did adrenaline kick in? Probably. All I know is, I was focused on getting away from this guy without being hurt. Did I feel rage? No, not during the ordeal and not after, not when I picked him out of the line up and not now 30 years later.

I'm not saying rage isn't real. I'm saying it just may be a choice, not some reptilian reaction to loss of entitlement.

 

[Dhara]

I wonder if circumcision may be experienced as primal violation. I'm thinking of an infant's inability to speak and make his or her needs known.

Yes. Even a newborn may cry out of rage if she wakes up hungry and isn't fed right away.
Is it normal that my baby seems angry? | BabyCenter

So "primal violation" is reacting negatively to something physically unpleasant?

Could be, or could be some other kind of abuse.

OK. Could be or could be... You said some psychologists claim that rage relates to primal violation. Do you have a link from one of these psychologists to share, or can you expand on the point a bit?

Let me see if I can expand on it. My psychologist says rage relates to violation. It's a feeling that something completely intolerable is going on in the present, or in the case of traumatized people, has gone on in the past, and is being triggered now. He says it's quite different from anger, or annoyance. It's more primal or basic,coming from the most ancient or "reptilian" part of the brain.

It's often connected to fear, it's in fight or flight. Say, someone is coming at you and wants to kill you, you can't run, or freeze, so you have rage and you fight back. You fight for your life.

IF that basic entitlement, (of survival), is suppressed then a person may dissociate or disown their rage, and that's when it becomes a danger to self and others.

Does that make any sense?

I can understand what you are saying but I cannot quite buy it. I'll tell you why. Some years ago when I was in my early twenties, the place I was working was robbed. The guy showed a gun and said, hand over the money in the cash register. I did. Then he wanted MY money and he wanted something else from ME. I'll won't go into all the details. My point is, I was in danger. I wanted to survive. Did adrenaline kick in? Probably. All I know is, I was focused on getting away from this guy without being hurt. Did I feel rage? No, not during the ordeal and not after, not when I picked him out of the line up and not now 30 years later.

I'm not saying rage isn't real. I'm saying it just may be a choice, not some reptilian reaction to entitilement.

Well, I would say that your experience of being traumatized allowed you to numb the fear, and allowed you to survive without the rage. That's not true in all cases though.

Human beings are complex. What I'm understanding about rage and anger isn't that it's a "choice". It's more one you have to train for if you're likely to have a rage reaction, EVER.

Rage often is dissociated. Now, I may wonder if you were dissociated in your fear, but it didn't affect you in getting enraged.

Others it does. Have you ever seen a bar room fight? When I was a child, I happened to walk by a bar and two men came out of it in a killing rage with each other.

I'm merely interested in discussing the subject. I don't find it helpful for EVERYONE or even relevant in all cases. Where I'm coming from, is we sometimes oversimplify what we think someone else ought to be able to do.

We think the pre-frontal cortex response is always engagable and in some people, it isn't.

 

[Dhara]

It get's hijacked by the amydala. With traumatized children, it may delay the development of the pre-frontal cortex, so that it isn't working that well. Saying "anger and rage are a choice" over looks this important brain chemistry data. A choice is when you have the pre-frontal cortex fully operational.

 

[Dhara]

This theory ties in:

Triune brain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dhara]

So, what happens when the amygdala signals danger? Other parts of the brain become activated; specifically the thalamus which is also in the limbic brain. This activation can incite one of three alarm responses, driven by the lower reptilian brain: 1) the fight response, 2) the flight response, or the 3) freeze response. When these alarm responses are activated, the body will protectively and automatically respond according to the instructions of the brain. Even after the danger has passed, the thalamus remains on high alert, activating the same responses if anything reminiscent of the original danger passes through again. This makes perfect sense from a survival perspective. In the wild, predators often return with reinforcements!

The limbic/mammalian brain does not have any concept of time. Past, present, and future are all one and the same. This might explain why your dog (a mammal) may greet you as though you've been gone for 30 years, instead of 30 minutes. This phenomenon also helps to explain why traumatized people can seem stuck in the past. For them, something that happened 50 years ago feels as though it is happening right now. To the mammalian brain, where these crossed wires and balls of tangle are housed, 50 years ago is today. When we talk about traumatized people being "stuck," it's as though wires got all tangled up and stuck in the limbic brain. Getting stuck in the limbic brain is problematic because material was never meant to be stored here long-term.
Reptilian Brain of Survival and Mammalian Brain - Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder

 

[Ravi]

I wonder if circumcision may be experienced as primal violation. I'm thinking of an infant's inability to speak and make his or her needs known.

Yes. Even a newborn may cry out of rage if she wakes up hungry and isn't fed right away.
Is it normal that my baby seems angry? | BabyCenter

So "primal violation" is reacting negatively to something physically unpleasant?

Could be, or could be some other kind of abuse.

OK. Could be or could be... You said some psychologists claim that rage relates to primal violation. Do you have a link from one of these psychologists to share, or can you expand on the point a bit?

Let me see if I can expand on it. My psychologist says rage relates to violation. It's a feeling that something completely intolerable is going on in the present, or in the case of traumatized people, has gone on in the past, and is being triggered now. He says it's quite different from anger, or annoyance. It's more primal or basic,coming from the most ancient or "reptilian" part of the brain.

It's often connected to fear, it's in fight or flight. Say, someone is coming at you and wants to kill you, you can't run, or freeze, so you have rage and you fight back. You fight for your life.

IF that basic entitlement, (of survival), is suppressed then a person may dissociate or disown their rage, and that's when it becomes a danger to self and others.

Does that make any sense?

I can understand what you are saying but I cannot quite buy it. I'll tell you why. Some years ago when I was in my early twenties, the place I was working was robbed. The guy showed a gun and said, hand over the money in the cash register. I did. Then he wanted MY money and he wanted something else from ME. I'll won't go into all the details. My point is, I was in danger. I wanted to survive. Did adrenaline kick in? Probably. All I know is, I was focused on getting away from this guy without being hurt. Did I feel rage? No, not during the ordeal and not after, not when I picked him out of the line up and not now 30 years later.

I'm not saying rage isn't real. I'm saying it just may be a choice, not some reptilian reaction to loss of entitlement.

Rage is a conscious feeling so it would be doubtful you would be feeling it during the robbery as you would be acting non-consiously while the adrenaline was kicking in, or instinctively if you'd rather .

That you didn't feel it after you thought about it afterwards is interesting. Why do you think you did not?

 

[Dhara]

 

[Compost]

So "primal violation" is reacting negatively to something physically unpleasant?

Could be, or could be some other kind of abuse.

OK. Could be or could be... You said some psychologists claim that rage relates to primal violation. Do you have a link from one of these psychologists to share, or can you expand on the point a bit?

Let me see if I can expand on it. My psychologist says rage relates to violation. It's a feeling that something completely intolerable is going on in the present, or in the case of traumatized people, has gone on in the past, and is being triggered now. He says it's quite different from anger, or annoyance. It's more primal or basic,coming from the most ancient or "reptilian" part of the brain.

It's often connected to fear, it's in fight or flight. Say, someone is coming at you and wants to kill you, you can't run, or freeze, so you have rage and you fight back. You fight for your life.

IF that basic entitlement, (of survival), is suppressed then a person may dissociate or disown their rage, and that's when it becomes a danger to self and others.

Does that make any sense?

I can understand what you are saying but I cannot quite buy it. I'll tell you why. Some years ago when I was in my early twenties, the place I was working was robbed. The guy showed a gun and said, hand over the money in the cash register. I did. Then he wanted MY money and he wanted something else from ME. I'll won't go into all the details. My point is, I was in danger. I wanted to survive. Did adrenaline kick in? Probably. All I know is, I was focused on getting away from this guy without being hurt. Did I feel rage? No, not during the ordeal and not after, not when I picked him out of the line up and not now 30 years later.

I'm not saying rage isn't real. I'm saying it just may be a choice, not some reptilian reaction to entitilement.

Well, I would say that your experience of being traumatized allowed you to numb the fear, and allowed you to survive without the rage. That's not true in all cases though.

Human beings are complex. What I'm understanding about rage and anger isn't that it's a "choice". It's more one you have to train for if you're likely to have a rage reaction, EVER.

Rage often is dissociated. Now, I may wonder if you were dissociated in your fear, but it didn't affect you in getting enraged.

Others it does. Have you ever seen a bar room fight? When I was a child, I happened to walk by a bar and two men came out of it in a killing rage with each other.

I'm merely interested in discussing the subject. I don't find it helpful for EVERYONE or even relevant in all cases. Where I'm coming from, is we sometimes oversimplify what we think someone else ought to be able to do.

We think the pre-frontal cortex response is always engagable and in some people, it isn't.

Uh huh. You are merely interested in discussing the subject.

I didn't choose how to feel, how to react, I dissociated! My experience doesn't fit your theory, so you play doctor and diagnose me.

The guys in the bar CHOOSE rage. They could have chose to shake hands and let their disagreement go.

Goodbye

 

[Dhara]

A great misconception about trauma counseling is that once trauma is processed or cleared, then it's gone. Voila! You're cured.

A healthier and more accurate approach is to view trauma as something that can be healed, but not cured. The distinction between cured and healed is subtle but important. A cure implies you either have a disease or disorder, or you do not. Healing implies various degrees of adaptation and adjustment that occur over time. For instance, some people use assistive devices like a wheelchair or cane. The fact they have successfully and courageously adapted to their crippling condition in no way implies that they are cured. They have learned how to prevent their condition from interfering in their life.
The Basic Framework of Trauma Treatment and Recovery - Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder

 

[Dhara]

Could be, or could be some other kind of abuse.

OK. Could be or could be... You said some psychologists claim that rage relates to primal violation. Do you have a link from one of these psychologists to share, or can you expand on the point a bit?

Let me see if I can expand on it. My psychologist says rage relates to violation. It's a feeling that something completely intolerable is going on in the present, or in the case of traumatized people, has gone on in the past, and is being triggered now. He says it's quite different from anger, or annoyance. It's more primal or basic,coming from the most ancient or "reptilian" part of the brain.

It's often connected to fear, it's in fight or flight. Say, someone is coming at you and wants to kill you, you can't run, or freeze, so you have rage and you fight back. You fight for your life.

IF that basic entitlement, (of survival), is suppressed then a person may dissociate or disown their rage, and that's when it becomes a danger to self and others.

Does that make any sense?

I can understand what you are saying but I cannot quite buy it. I'll tell you why. Some years ago when I was in my early twenties, the place I was working was robbed. The guy showed a gun and said, hand over the money in the cash register. I did. Then he wanted MY money and he wanted something else from ME. I'll won't go into all the details. My point is, I was in danger. I wanted to survive. Did adrenaline kick in? Probably. All I know is, I was focused on getting away from this guy without being hurt. Did I feel rage? No, not during the ordeal and not after, not when I picked him out of the line up and not now 30 years later.

I'm not saying rage isn't real. I'm saying it just may be a choice, not some reptilian reaction to entitilement.

Well, I would say that your experience of being traumatized allowed you to numb the fear, and allowed you to survive without the rage. That's not true in all cases though.

Human beings are complex. What I'm understanding about rage and anger isn't that it's a "choice". It's more one you have to train for if you're likely to have a rage reaction, EVER.

Rage often is dissociated. Now, I may wonder if you were dissociated in your fear, but it didn't affect you in getting enraged.

Others it does. Have you ever seen a bar room fight? When I was a child, I happened to walk by a bar and two men came out of it in a killing rage with each other.

I'm merely interested in discussing the subject. I don't find it helpful for EVERYONE or even relevant in all cases. Where I'm coming from, is we sometimes oversimplify what we think someone else ought to be able to do.

We think the pre-frontal cortex response is always engagable and in some people, it isn't.

Uh huh. You are merely interested in discussing the subject.

I didn't choose how to feel, how to react, I dissociated! My experience doesn't fit your theory, so you play doctor and diagnose me.

The guys in the bar CHOOSE rage. They could have chose to shake hands and let their disagreement go.

Goodbye

I'm very sorry to have put it that way. I was NOT wanting to offend.

I simply disagree that EVERYONE can choose to shake hands when they are in such a high state of hyperarousal.

 

[Compost]

So "primal violation" is reacting negatively to something physically unpleasant?

Could be, or could be some other kind of abuse.

OK. Could be or could be... You said some psychologists claim that rage relates to primal violation. Do you have a link from one of these psychologists to share, or can you expand on the point a bit?

Let me see if I can expand on it. My psychologist says rage relates to violation. It's a feeling that something completely intolerable is going on in the present, or in the case of traumatized people, has gone on in the past, and is being triggered now. He says it's quite different from anger, or annoyance. It's more primal or basic,coming from the most ancient or "reptilian" part of the brain.

It's often connected to fear, it's in fight or flight. Say, someone is coming at you and wants to kill you, you can't run, or freeze, so you have rage and you fight back. You fight for your life.

IF that basic entitlement, (of survival), is suppressed then a person may dissociate or disown their rage, and that's when it becomes a danger to self and others.

Does that make any sense?

I can understand what you are saying but I cannot quite buy it. I'll tell you why. Some years ago when I was in my early twenties, the place I was working was robbed. The guy showed a gun and said, hand over the money in the cash register. I did. Then he wanted MY money and he wanted something else from ME. I'll won't go into all the details. My point is, I was in danger. I wanted to survive. Did adrenaline kick in? Probably. All I know is, I was focused on getting away from this guy without being hurt. Did I feel rage? No, not during the ordeal and not after, not when I picked him out of the line up and not now 30 years later.

I'm not saying rage isn't real. I'm saying it just may be a choice, not some reptilian reaction to loss of entitlement.

Rage is a conscious feeling so it would be doubtful you would be feeling it during the robbery as you would be acting non-consiously while the adrenaline was kicking in, or instinctively if you'd rather .

That you didn't feel it after you thought about it afterwards is interesting. Why do you think you did not?

Because I wondered why the guy did something so outrageously stupid. He was a little younger than me. I was working three jobs to pay for school. It baffled me that someone would take, instead of earn. Later, I learned from the detective handling the case that he used the money he stole to buy Christmas presents.

 

[Ravi]

Could be, or could be some other kind of abuse.

OK. Could be or could be... You said some psychologists claim that rage relates to primal violation. Do you have a link from one of these psychologists to share, or can you expand on the point a bit?

Let me see if I can expand on it. My psychologist says rage relates to violation. It's a feeling that something completely intolerable is going on in the present, or in the case of traumatized people, has gone on in the past, and is being triggered now. He says it's quite different from anger, or annoyance. It's more primal or basic,coming from the most ancient or "reptilian" part of the brain.

It's often connected to fear, it's in fight or flight. Say, someone is coming at you and wants to kill you, you can't run, or freeze, so you have rage and you fight back. You fight for your life.

IF that basic entitlement, (of survival), is suppressed then a person may dissociate or disown their rage, and that's when it becomes a danger to self and others.

Does that make any sense?

I can understand what you are saying but I cannot quite buy it. I'll tell you why. Some years ago when I was in my early twenties, the place I was working was robbed. The guy showed a gun and said, hand over the money in the cash register. I did. Then he wanted MY money and he wanted something else from ME. I'll won't go into all the details. My point is, I was in danger. I wanted to survive. Did adrenaline kick in? Probably. All I know is, I was focused on getting away from this guy without being hurt. Did I feel rage? No, not during the ordeal and not after, not when I picked him out of the line up and not now 30 years later.

I'm not saying rage isn't real. I'm saying it just may be a choice, not some reptilian reaction to loss of entitlement.

Rage is a conscious feeling so it would be doubtful you would be feeling it during the robbery as you would be acting non-consiously while the adrenaline was kicking in, or instinctively if you'd rather .

That you didn't feel it after you thought about it afterwards is interesting. Why do you think you did not?

Because I wondered why the guy did something so outrageously stupid. He was a little younger than me. I was working three jobs to pay for school. It baffled me that someone would take, instead of earn. Later, I learned from the detective handling the case that he used the money he stole to buy Christmas presents.

That makes sense. Empathy can be useful in conquering negative emotions. And I mean the "understand" portion of the definition, not the "share the same feelings" portion.

 

[Dhara]

Could be, or could be some other kind of abuse.

OK. Could be or could be... You said some psychologists claim that rage relates to primal violation. Do you have a link from one of these psychologists to share, or can you expand on the point a bit?

Let me see if I can expand on it. My psychologist says rage relates to violation. It's a feeling that something completely intolerable is going on in the present, or in the case of traumatized people, has gone on in the past, and is being triggered now. He says it's quite different from anger, or annoyance. It's more primal or basic,coming from the most ancient or "reptilian" part of the brain.

It's often connected to fear, it's in fight or flight. Say, someone is coming at you and wants to kill you, you can't run, or freeze, so you have rage and you fight back. You fight for your life.

IF that basic entitlement, (of survival), is suppressed then a person may dissociate or disown their rage, and that's when it becomes a danger to self and others.

Does that make any sense?

I can understand what you are saying but I cannot quite buy it. I'll tell you why. Some years ago when I was in my early twenties, the place I was working was robbed. The guy showed a gun and said, hand over the money in the cash register. I did. Then he wanted MY money and he wanted something else from ME. I'll won't go into all the details. My point is, I was in danger. I wanted to survive. Did adrenaline kick in? Probably. All I know is, I was focused on getting away from this guy without being hurt. Did I feel rage? No, not during the ordeal and not after, not when I picked him out of the line up and not now 30 years later.

I'm not saying rage isn't real. I'm saying it just may be a choice, not some reptilian reaction to loss of entitlement.

Rage is a conscious feeling so it would be doubtful you would be feeling it during the robbery as you would be acting non-consiously while the adrenaline was kicking in, or instinctively if you'd rather .

That you didn't feel it after you thought about it afterwards is interesting. Why do you think you did not?

Because I wondered why the guy did something so outrageously stupid. He was a little younger than me. I was working three jobs to pay for school. It baffled me that someone would take, instead of earn. Later, I learned from the detective handling the case that he used the money he stole to buy Christmas presents.

Empathy for the perpetrator is a path to healing. IMO, the ability to get to empathy is varied. Age the person was when a violation occurs makes a difference.

 

[Dhara]

What I am trying to suggest here, is that it's NOT helpful, in all cases, to tell someone "your anger or rage is a "choice". Some people's brain's are literally hijacked by a flooding of neurochemicals in trauma.

 

[Dhara]

I wonder how many people actually know when they're angry or would admit to it? It's not a popular emotion and it's judged exceptionally harshly by some.

 

[Judicial review]

It goes

Anger to rage to psychotic

 

[pillars]

What I am trying to suggest here, is that it's NOT helpful, in all cases, to tell someone "your anger or rage is a "choice". Some people's brain's are literally hijacked by a flooding of neurochemicals in trauma.

For people who have PTSD, it then becomes important for the person who has experienced the trauma to learn to differentiate what is real, and what is merely relived or triggered trauma response. I don't doubt that you have issues with rage. But, you blame your rage on people on the internet, rather than taking ownership of what is, in fact, your response, and choosing a different response. Perhaps you don't have that level of control yet, but if that's the case, you have been working on this for literally years, and not making progress. Perhaps you need a different treatment modality.