Hamas: We'll Fight to the Last Civilian

[Annie]

While the leadership tries to avoid death:

washingtonpost.com

Israeli Forces Enter Gaza Strip
'This Will Not Be Easy or Short,' Top Official Says; Hamas Calls for Suicide Attacks
By Griff Witte
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, January 4, 2009; A01

JERUSALEM, Jan. 3 -- Israel launched a major ground invasion of the Gaza Strip on Saturday night, moving in tanks, infantry and artillery units after eight days of relentless air attacks failed to halt Hamas rocket fire from the narrow coastal territory.

Israeli officials indicated that the incursion would be lengthy but said they have no intention of reoccupying the densely populated strip more than three years after withdrawing troops and settlers. Less clear is whether Israel intends to use the ground assault to try to topple Hamas, which has been in control of Gaza for 18 months.

Hamas officials called on Palestinians to rise up against Israel with suicide attacks and vowed to make Gaza "a graveyard" for Israeli soldiers....

 

[DavidS]

The IDF has already gained control of most of the Gaza strip with only 1 soldier's death being reported. Somehow methinks Gaza isn't quite the graveyard that Hamas wants it to be, baruch Hashem.

 

[Truthmatters]

Heres the problem Dave, you can kill them all and you will only be seen as a monster by the rest of the world.

Israel will never be seen the same by the world. You are now in the gutter with Bush in the worlds eyes.

The path to peace is not paved with the blood of children.

 

[Annie]

The IDF has already gained control of most of the Gaza strip with only 1 soldier's death being reported. Somehow methinks Gaza isn't quite the graveyard that Hamas wants it to be, baruch Hashem.

Which probably explains this:

The Associated Press: Arabs demand UN call for immediate cease-fire

Arabs demand UN call for immediate cease-fire
By EDITH M. LEDERER – 10 hours ago

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Arab nations demanded Saturday that the United Nations Security Council call for an immediate cease-fire following Israel's launch of a ground offensive in Gaza, a view echoed by Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

Libya circulated a draft statement to council members before emergency council consultations began expressing "serious concern at the escalation of the situation in Gaza" following Israel's ground assault and calling on Israel and Hamas "to stop immediately all military activities."...

But didn't 'take' and of course the blame for that falls on, ta da, the US:

U.N. Security Council fails to reach Gaza consensus - CNN.com

U.N. Security Council fails to reach Gaza consensus

Story Highlights

NEW: U.N. Security Council fails to agree on statement on Gaza incursion
Official says world watching Security Council "disfunctionality"

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon "convinced" incursion will increase civilian suffering

Middle East Quartet says incursion hampers efforts to broker cease-fire

(CNN) -- The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting Saturday, but failed to agree on a statement in response to Israel's ground offensive launched in Gaza.

Libyan Ambassador Giadalla Ettalhi, who circulated a draft resolution on the crisis at a Security Council meeting last week, said a proposal, which "strongly condemns Israeli military action" and calls on the Jewish state to immediately cease "military attacks against the civilian population," had wide support among Council members.

However, Ettalhi said the United States was to blame for blocking a consensus....

 

[DavidS]

Which probably explains this:

The Associated Press: Arabs demand UN call for immediate cease-fire




But didn't 'take' and of course the blame for that falls on, ta da, the US:

U.N. Security Council fails to reach Gaza consensus - CNN.com

The UN's call for Israel to stop fighting Hamas is about as ludicrious as it is irrelevant. When the UN "authorized" the US to go into Afghanistan, I found it hilarious. This is the same thing - we're here to wipe them out, completely and without remorse. When we are done, there will be nothing left of Hamas and the people of Gaza will look to Fatah. If Gaza can be anything like the West Bank, then peace can truly be achieved.

The UN should be a place for diplomacy and such, but the security council is irrelevant. When the UNSC called for Russia to stop fighting in South Ossetia, did Russia listen? Did Russia care? DId we care when we invaded Iraq?

 

[DavidS]

Heres the problem Dave, you can kill them all and you will only be seen as a monster by the rest of the world.

The rest of the world's opinion of Israel is irrelevant. We've been as monsters for decades. How many resolutions were there in the UN when rockets were landing just feet away from classrooms full of Kindergartners in Sderdot? The rest of the world is backwards and hypocritical. If any border nation were firing 10,000 rockets into any one of these other countries, they wouldn't hesitate to go in and do what Israel is doing. We have no idea what people say to each other privately and the politics behind it all.

Israel will never be seen the same by the world. You are now in the gutter with Bush in the worlds eyes.

Irrelevant. Who was it that said "I'm not going to Washington to seek their good opinions."

The path to peace is not paved with the blood of children.

Peace? How can you talk peace when thousands of rockets were falling in Israel? That's not peace.

Guess how many armed conflicts the world has had with a military under Nazi control since World War 2? Zero. Why? We wiped them out.

That's what we'll do here and I certainly hope Hezbollah is watching.

 

[jillian]

The rest of the world's opinion of Israel is irrelevant. We've been as monsters for decades. How many resolutions were there in the UN when rockets were landing just feet away from classrooms full of Kindergartners in Sderdot? The rest of the world is backwards and hypocritical. If any border nation were firing 10,000 rockets into any one of these other countries, they wouldn't hesitate to go in and do what Israel is doing. We have no idea what people say to each other privately and the politics behind it all.



Irrelevant. Who was it that said "I'm not going to Washington to seek their good opinions."



Peace? How can you talk peace when thousands of rockets were falling in Israel? That's not peace.

Guess how many armed conflicts the world has had with a military under Nazi control since World War 2? Zero. Why? We wiped them out.

That's what we'll do here and I certainly hope Hezbollah is watching.

you know that she knows nothing about the history of the region and only concerns herself with terrorists?

in other words, you may as well be banging your head against the wall. no country has to justify its right to defend itself....

except Israel, of course. But don't worry, there's no anti-semitism involved.

 

[Truthmatters]

How many Israelis are dead and how many Palestinians are dead?

Who is on whos land?

I will remember you dont care what the world thinks.

I will remember you dont care what the US thinks.

Maybe its far past time to end the money the US sends to Israel?

 

[Truthmatters]

Oh yes Jillian I fully expect to be called ugly names.

You see I can disagree with the actions of your country and still love my family members who are jewish. I have Blood realitives who mean very much to me who happen to be jewish.

I love them and respect their religion. I dont like the way Israel is "securing peace". I think it will backfire , I think it will make things horribly worse, I think more jewish children will Die because of it , I think more palestinian children will Die because of it.

You charactorize it as defense, I charactorize it as horrible policy which will make the entire world a much worse place to live in.

So in your crazed mind that makes me a anti semite?

Sad very sad, its just like the Bush people calling me an unpatriotic American for not wanting to kill Iraqi children.

 

[DavidS]

How many Israelis are dead and how many Palestinians are dead?

For how many years did they send how many rockets into civilian towns of Israel?

Who is on whos land?

Good point! They are on our land. Israel captured Gaza and the West Bank during the 1967 6-day war. Under your logic, they should all be evicted.

I will remember you dont care what the world thinks. I will remember you dont care what the US thinks. Maybe its far past time to end the money the US sends to Israel?

Sunni Man will convert to Judaism and commit Aliyah and pledge his alliegeance to the IDF before that happens.

 

[Truthmatters]

They are on our land. Israel captured Gaza and the West Bank during the 1967 6-day war. Under your logic, they should all be evicted.


Where does it say you can keep the land of a people you win a war against?

When did that become standard practice?

What would the world look like if we all started doing that?

 

[DavidS]

You charactorize it as defense, I charactorize it as horrible policy which will make the entire world a much worse place to live in.

Decision time Truth: 10,000 rockets have been fired into your country. Hundreds of civilians have been hurt, dozens killed. What do you do? Don't tell me you wouldn't get there in the first place, because you're already there. What do you do? Come on Truth, Hamas has begun to target your nuclear reactor and if one of their missiles hit it, it could explode and you could have the equivelant of a nuclear bomb hitting a major city. Their rockets are gaining range and might hit Tel Aviv, one of the most densley populate cities of Israel. What do you do? Decide NOW.

 

[Truthmatters]

Sunni Man will convert to Judaism and commit Aliyah and pledge his alliegeance to the IDF before that happens.


So you think Israel owns the US?

You think we have no free will to deside where our money goes?

I think this is JUST the type of sentiment that Israel is showing by their actions.
The world is changing and you may be surprized at how much this action will change US opinions.

 

[DavidS]

Where does it say you can keep the land of a people you win a war against? When did that become standard practice?

Are you kidding me? This is a joke right? Guess we better give back America to the Brits, huh?

What would the world look like if we all started doing that?

Uh, what it looks like today? This has kind of been going on for thousands of years...

 

[DavidS]

Sunni Man will convert to Judaism and commit Aliyah and pledge his alliegeance to the IDF before that happens.


So you think Israel owns the US?

You think we have no free will to deside where our money goes?

I think this is JUST the type of sentiment that Israel is showing by their actions.
The world is changing and you may be surprized at how much this action will change US opinions.

The US wants to support Israel, Truth. Israel is an ally to the US. The US is Israel's closest of friends.

Germany today, under Merkel, would rather sacrafice Germany than for Israel to fall. Germans sacraficing themselves to save Jews. Odd isn't it?

 

[Truthmatters]

Are you kidding me? This is a joke right? Guess we better give back America to the Brits, huh?



Uh, what it looks like today? This has kind of been going on for thousands of years...

You are aware that that war was a war for independence right?

You see you are making a big intellectual leap by comparing the two.

Killing each other for thousands of years is a good reason to keep killing each ohter?

Yeah I think you need to get honest with yourself.

There are jews who agree with me my friend, what do you think of them?

 

[Truthmatters]

The US wants to support Israel, Truth. Israel is an ally to the US. The US is Israel's closest of friends.

Germany today, under Merkel, would rather sacrafice Germany than for Israel to fall. Germans sacraficing themselves to save Jews. Odd isn't it?

Israel is not going to remain an ally to the US if it causes a third world war for us to have to deal with now is it.

I think you over estimate the willingness of either country sacraficing themselves and their pwn country to "save" Isreal.

How many elections do you think any leader would win if they said to the voters "I will sacrafice our country to save Botswana"?

They would lose every election.

No country will sacrafice themselves for any other country in reality.

People are only willing to do that for a good moral reason.

The actions of Israel ( starving and preventing medical care to an entire people for months and then being surprized some of them are willing to shoot rockets over at you) do not meet that Moral standard. You in your homeland passion my think so but the world is not going to see it that way anymore.

 

[editec]

The rest of the world's opinion of Israel is irrelevant. We've been as monsters for decades.

Centuries if you want to include all the times when being JEW meant you had to live with a target on your back, actually.

Few people on earth are better equipped (by a history of oppression) NOT to GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS, than the Jews.

Why the rest of the world wants to pretend that they don't understand that, I cannot say, but I'll venture a guess...

Because people want to forget history, when it isn't convenient for them to remember what is making people nuts, I suppose.

We see this when we talk about Blacks in America, Jews in Isreal, Palestinians living in the camps and ghettos, too.

History is a very inconvenient thing for partisans of ever stripe, that's why tyrants so hate it when people who remember history remind them of it.

How many resolutions were there in the UN when rockets were landing just feet away from classrooms full of Kindergartners in Sderdot? The rest of the world is backwards and hypocritical.

Damned right it is.

It was being hypocritical by giving Palestine to Europe's Jews.

It was being hypocritical when it ignored those rockets landing in Isreal, too

Damned history, long past or recent, it just won't die, will it?

If any border nation were firing 10,000 rockets into any one of these other countries, they wouldn't hesitate to go in and do what Israel is doing.

I completely agree. Expecting Isreal to simply suck it up and shake it off is absurd.

Peace? How can you talk peace when thousands of rockets were falling in Israel? That's not peace.

True enough.

Guess how many armed conflicts the world has had with a military under Nazi control since World War 2? Zero. Why? We wiped them out.

Happily for all concerned the German people were more than happy to give up NAZIism.

Of course, when the Western troops rolled into Germany, we also recognized the right of Germans to return to their homes, too, didn't we?

Had we shunted them into a perpetual state of statelessness and homelessness that might not have worked out so well for any us, right?

That's what we'll do here and I certainly hope Hezbollah is watching.

One can hope for a change of heart for ALL the people in that unhappy place.

I wouldn't bet the Kibbutz on it though, if I were you, DavidS.

I think this "crises" is going to be like so many others...an eventual modus vivendi will be achieved, until some new group of radicals gets enough arms to start attacking Isreal, again.

Armies cannot defeat PEOPLES unless they are willing to kill so many of them that the culture of those people simply fades away into history.

How on earth any JEW can not realize that, given the long unhappy history that the Jews survived and still reamined in their head and hearts JEWS, I cannot understand.

 

[DavidS]

You are aware that that war was a war for independence right? You see you are making a big intellectual leap by comparing the two.

I'm sorry, but I don't have a history of every single war ever fought in the history of the world. Needless to say, the victor always keeps the land it invaded during the war. I mean, we're going back thousands of years here.

But in the end, we won the war, we keep the land. It's kind of the basic premise of war... you know, for land and everything.

Killing each other for thousands of years is a good reason to keep killing each ohter?

Huh? Do you even know history? Islam isn't thousands of years old and the Arabs and the Jews have only been fighting each other since the late 19th century. How am I supposed to even have a discussion with you when you don't know basic history?

 

[DavidS]

Israel is not going to remain an ally to the US if it causes a third world war for us to have to deal with now is it.

I think you over estimate the willingness of either country sacraficing themselves and their pwn country to "save" Isreal.

How many elections do you think any leader would win if they said to the voters "I will sacrafice our country to save Botswana"?

They would lose every election.

No country will sacrafice themselves for any other country in reality.

People are only willing to do that for a good moral reason.

The actions of Israel ( starving and preventing medical care to an entire people for months and then being surprized some of them are willing to shoot rockets over at you) do not meet that Moral standard. You in your homeland passion my think so but the world is not going to see it that way anymore.

Dick Cheney: Israel didn`t seek U.S. okay before Gaza invasion - Haaretz - Israel News

U.S. Senate leaders say Israel`s actions understandable

Leading U.S. Senators from both sides of the aisle said Sunday they are standing solidly behind Israel's ground operation against Hamas.

They say Hamas is a terrorist organization that threatens Israel by firing rockets from Gaza into the Jewish state. The senators say Israelis are victims of attacks by Hamas and that Israel is doing everything possible to protect its people.

Sens. Harry Reid and Dick Durbin - the top two Democrats in the chamber - and Republican leader Sen. Mitch McConnell all say Israel's actions are understandable. They say it is what the U.S. would do if terrorists were firing missiles into the U.S. from across America's borders.

The lawmakers made their comments on the Sunday television talk shows.