Hamas leader: Nations are recognizing Palestinian state due to ‘fruits of October 7’

[Roudy]

The Palestinians who celebrated on Oct 7 and many joined in with Hamas to commit the crimes against humanity that was committed on that day, are now recognizing “the fruits of Oct. 7”. And they deserve every bit of it.

 

[alang1216]

Would you say that the Western Wall should be exclusively for Jewish worship?

Never been there but, if it is an open plaza, then I see no need for it being exclusive.

So you are in favor of denying rights to Jews. Why must the Dome be exclusively Muslim? Why not time-sharing?

I tried to enter a Mosque once but was turned away since I was not a Muslim. I wasn't asked if I were Jewish, all non-Muslims were excluded.

 

[rosends]

I tried to enter a Mosque once but was turned away since I was not a Muslim. I wasn't asked if I were Jewish, all non-Muslims were excluded.

So you are OK with denying rights to non-Muslims?

 

[alang1216]

So you are OK with denying rights to non-Muslims?

Some rights, at some places, at some times, yes. All rights, at all places, at all times, no.

 

[rosends]

Some rights, at some places, at some times, yes. All rights, at all places, at all times, no.

so at the site holiest to Jews, when should Jews have the ability to access and pray?

 

[alang1216]

so at the site holiest to Jews, when should Jews have the ability to access and pray?

Not for me to say. No dog.

 

[Grau]

Never been there but, if it is an open plaza, then I see no need for it being exclusive.

I tried to enter a Mosque once but was turned away since I was not a Muslim. I wasn't asked if I were Jewish, all non-Muslims were excluded.

During to 10 - 11 months that I spent walking and hitch hiking around the Islamic Middle East, I was not only welcomed into the few mosques that I visited but allowed to roll out my sleeping bag in the sheltered courtyard to spend the night.

Without exception, someone would offer me breakfast in the morning and provisions for the next part of my travels.

Out of respect, I didn't enter during especially busy times and attempted to conform to the common practices, remove shoes / boots etc.

From which mosque were you turned away?

Thanks,

 

[rosends]

Not for me to say. No dog.

if you have no dog, you clearly still have an opinion. Why not just express the opinion as it relates to the flip side of what you have already expressed an opinion on.

apologies for ending in a preposition.

 

[alang1216]

During to 10 - 11 months that I spent walking and hitch hiking around the Islamic Middle East, I was not only welcomed into the few mosques that I visited but allowed to roll out my sleeping bag in the sheltered courtyard to spend the night.

Without exception, someone would offer me breakfast in the morning and provisions for the next part of my travels.

Out of respect, I didn't enter during especially busy times and attempted to conform to the common practices, remove shoes / boots etc.

From which mosque were you turned away?

Thanks,

Don't know the name but it was in the center of Marrakesh. The people I met there always friendly and welcoming.

 

[alang1216]

if you have no dog, you clearly still have an opinion. Why not just express the opinion as it relates to the flip side of what you have already expressed an opinion on.

apologies for ending in a preposition.

We all need to compromise and be respectful. I don't think I should set a schedule.

 

[rosends]

We all need to compromise and be respectful. I don't think I should set a schedule.

but you agree that for all the spaces that have significance to various religions, ALL should have access? Or is that only true for certain sites?

 

[alang1216]

but you agree that for all the spaces that have significance to various religions, ALL should have access? Or is that only true for certain sites?

Yes.

 

[Shusha]

I don't condone violence but think the Dome of the Rock must be exclusively for Muslim worship. Since I've never been there I can't say for sure but I'd hope the rest of the complex could be peacefully shared.

It might be useful to clarify terms to avoid confusion. Here's how I am using the terms:

Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif = the entire plateau atop the Mount, walls, gates
Dome of the Rock = the golden-domed octagonal building (not a mosque)
Al-Aqsa Mosque = the silver-domed mosque

I have absolutely no problem with each religious faith having a private place of worship, bounded by either space or time. By that I mean, I have no problem with Al-Aqsa Mosque (the building, not the complex) being restricted to Muslim-only. Nor would I have a problem with a new building of any type, whether a Temple structure or a synagogue, being restricted to Jew-only. Nor a church for Xtians only. Having said that, in my personal opinion, it defeats the purpose of the Temple space, which in at least some Jewish thought, is meant to be a space where peoples of all nations gather under the one Gd. But the plateau should be available for all.

I also have no problem with spaces bounded by time exclusively for one faith, especially for holidays and holy celebrational times. That seems to work in Hebron for the Cave of the Patriarchs where most of the time the space is split into your half/my half but for, I think it is ten days, each year, Jews get the whole space and for ten days each year Muslims get the whole space. Useful, pragmatic, respectful compromise.

Here is what I think should not be controversial:

Don't bring weapons to holy sites.
Don't insist on exclusive use of a holy site with threat of violence.
Don't insist on exclusive use of a holy site that has religious significance to another faith.
(I'd also add: don't usurp the holy sites of others as proof-of-conquest, but maybe that is getting a bit controversial.)

And here is the ask:

When Arabs? Palestinians? Muslims? demand any of those "should not be controversial" things -- the international community, and the Arabs, Palestinians, and Muslims communities, and you personally on boards like this -- must push back and put pressure on them.

 

[rosends]

Yes.

I asked more than one question. To what does "yes" apply?

 

[Jroc]

During to 10 - 11 months that I spent walking and hitch hiking around the Islamic Middle East, I was not only welcomed into the few mosques that I visited but allowed to roll out my sleeping bag in the sheltered courtyard to spend the night.

Without exception, someone would offer me breakfast in the morning and provisions for the next part of my travels.

Out of respect, I didn't enter during especially busy times and attempted to conform to the common practices, remove shoes / boots etc.

From which mosque were you turned away?

Thanks,

You're a Muslim Arab why wouldn't they want you Habibi?..if you were be Jew you'd e killed

 

[Jroc]

It might be useful to clarify terms to avoid confusion. Here's how I am using the terms:

Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif = the entire plateau atop the Mount, walls, gates
Dome of the Rock = the golden-domed octagonal building (not a mosque)
Al-Aqsa Mosque = the silver-domed mosque

I have absolutely no problem with each religious faith having a private place of worship, bounded by either space or time. By that I mean, I have no problem with Al-Aqsa Mosque (the building, not the complex) being restricted to Muslim-only. Nor would I have a problem with a new building of any type, whether a Temple structure or a synagogue, being restricted to Jew-only. Nor a church for Xtians only. Having said that, in my personal opinion, it defeats the purpose of the Temple space, which in at least some Jewish thought, is meant to be a space where peoples of all nations gather under the one Gd. But the plateau should be available for all.

I also have no problem with spaces bounded by time exclusively for one faith, especially for holidays and holy celebrational times. That seems to work in Hebron for the Cave of the Patriarchs where most of the time the space is split into your half/my half but for, I think it is ten days, each year, Jews get the whole space and for ten days each year Muslims get the whole space. Useful, pragmatic, respectful compromise.

Here is what I think should not be controversial:

Don't bring weapons to holy sites.
Don't insist on exclusive use of a holy site with threat of violence.
Don't insist on exclusive use of a holy site that has religious significance to another faith.
(I'd also add: don't usurp the holy sites of others as proof-of-conquest, but maybe that is getting a bit controversial.)

And here is the ask:

When Arabs? Palestinians? Muslims? demand any of those "should not be controversial" things -- the international community, and the Arabs, Palestinians, and Muslims communities, and you personally on boards like this -- must push back and put pressure on them.

Why would you separate Arabs and "Palestinians" ? You folded and except the propaganda is fact ... Are Jordanians different than so-called Palestinians? Are they different than Lebanese? Syrian?... You lost the argument when you accept the propaganda as fact

 

[Shusha]

Naw, I have a better idea.

View attachment 1154027

Not helpful. You don't have to have any religious faith yourself. You can hate all religions equally. You can believe that religions are the source of all evil in the world. Fine.

But destruction of places that are deeply meaningful to people is not peaceful.

 

[Shusha]

Why would you separate Arabs and "Palestinians" ?

Well, I've been doing that consistently throughout this particular discussion as I would like to invite people to consider which collective we are speaking about when making decisions for the holy places in the Old City. Certainly, I don't think "Arabs" are relevant in the slightest, but they seem to like to make themselves relevant by acting as a collective, and inserting themselves into situations. It IS Jordan that holds the status quo, not "Palestine". I don't especially think that "Palestinians" is relevant, either. That is because, as far as I am concerned, there is no longer any political discussion about Jerusalem. It's Israel. Not going to change. Not open for discussion. Which leaves "Muslims".

You folded and except the propaganda is fact ...

I've been doing this way, way to long to "fold" or to fail to recognize propaganda.

Are Jordanians different than so-called Palestinians? Are they different than Lebanese? Syrian?... You lost the argument when you accept the propaganda as fact

Thank you for so kindly asking for clarification on my well-developed opinion on this matter. No, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, and Palestinians could not be differentiated a hundred years ago, or even fifty years ago. There is no cultural differences between them beyond a slight dialect in the "g" sound, and a few specific local embroidery patterns.

BUT, the Palestinian people have absolutely developed a national identity over time. (As have the Lebanese, Syrians, and Jordanians). No one gets to decide their identity but them. That's the way it works for the Jewish people. That's the way it works for all other peoples.

 

[Lisa558]

Never been there but, if it is an open plaza, then I see no need for it being exclusive.

So you’re saying that the Temple Mount, where the First and Second Jewish Temples were built, is OK to be available EXCLUSIVELY for Muslims, but…

…the Western Wall cannot be available exclusively for Jews?

Why are you in favor of Jews being forced to compromise and share with Muslims, but Muslims do not have to share with Jews?

(Someone’s anti-Jew, pro-Muslim ledtist bias is showing.)

 

[Lisa558]

Jared’s father? I didn’t know his was the ambassador.

Great news.